Negotiating Open with Someone Waiting in the Wings

[Vulpis]

I'm new, obviously. I've been reading a lot of threads to try to answer my own questions and sort out my thoughts, but I'm still a bit frustrated with my situation.

I identify a lot with the Original Poster here, but didn't want to hijack a thread: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408

For context, I am 23, female, and straight. I've been in a committed mono relationship for four years with a male partner who is ten years senior, living together. I moved thousands of miles to be with my partner and was a virgin, emotionally and physically, when we met.

Recently at a party I kissed another guy while my partner was at home. I had a lot to drink and almost certainly wouldn't have done it while sober (drinking that much was stupid but kind of intentional), but it happened. I cut off the makeout session and prevented anything further from happening. The guy walked me home and I blacked out.

The next day I was in shock. I was very confused by what had happened and why I had done it. I told my partner the truth and cried my heart out, thinking it was just a drunken mistake. He was mostly okay.

The next couple of days was a whole mess of rediscovering myself and figuring out what happened. I learned that I had initiated the makeout very strongly despite not remembering, and I couldn't stop thinking about what had happened and how much I enjoyed it and kind of wanted to do it again. I had heard of polyamory and open relationships of many types but had never seriously read into any of it, assuming everyone in them was a radical or was fundamentally different from me. I had, in fact, never discovered my own sexuality really until the night of the party. Suddenly I was a new person and viewed everything, and everybody, differently.

Knowing I had hurt my partner, I quietly started reading books and listening to talks and podcasts from people who had a lot to say about alternatives to monogamy. My partner "caught" me watching a talk, and shut down, but feigned some interest later on. We had a talk about what had happened and he was not happy that I couldn't just let this one incident go, that I had to turn it into this big ordeal about opening the relationship.

The next couple of weeks he saw all of my reading and viewing talks as a cry for his permission to sleep with the guy from the party. We sat down and had a talk about how I was feeling some pretty overwhelming desire, but that this went deeper than that. He said he felt very inadequate and I have been trying to help him deal with those feelings.

He keeps telling me the same thing whenever opening the relationship is even mentioned: I can do whatever I want, but I have to accept the consequences. He says if I make any moves sexually toward other men (which I don't plan on doing) we'll need to separate. He refuses to talk about how it makes him feel, about how he is feeling right now. He tends to shelve his own feelings and not talk about them with me, or if he does, he'll out-logic me and intentionally drive me into a corner until I relent. That's how he has always communicated. When I try to prod him for more information he views it as me asking for a specific response.

He also has suggested a break a couple times now, thinking that I can "get it out of my system" by screwing this other guy. I am pretty sure at this point that I am sort of wired to want to be sexual with people I am mutually attracted to and that I should really be able to experience different things with multiple people. I'm still coming to terms with that and feel guilty and shameful constantly.

Meanwhile I am still occasionally hanging out with this guy I kissed (with other people) since this is the first group of friends I really enjoy spending time with. I'm having a lot of trouble not acting on impulses.

I'm just not sure how to move forward. I really don't want to start over since I love my partner and would like to continue growing and changing with him. I'd also like to see him feel the same raw energy I felt when I kissed someone else, but he doesn't believe me. He never brings the subject up himself which forces me to since I cannot shelve my feelings. I want to have an honest relationship with him but he's just not communicating with me effectively most of the time.

 

[Emm]

He keeps telling me the same thing whenever opening the relationship is even mentioned: I can do whatever I want, but I have to accept the consequences. He says if I make any moves sexually toward other men (which I don't plan on doing) we'll need to separate.

That seems fairly clear to me.

He refuses to talk about how it makes him feel, about how he is feeling right now.

He has told you how he feels: if you are sexual with another man you'll have to separate.

I am pretty sure at this point that I am sort of wired to want to be sexual with people I am mutually attracted to and that I should really be able to experience different things with multiple people.

Is doing so worth the end of your relationship with your husband?

 

[Tinwen]

I was a virgin, emotionally and physically, when we met.

This is surely a huge part of your doubts. At this point, you cannot tell if you want poly or monogamy, unless you make a monogamous commitment base on logic purely. You don't know your sexuality enough.

The next couple of weeks he saw all of my reading and viewing talks as a cry for his permission to sleep with the guy from the party. We sat down and had a talk about how I was feeling some pretty overwhelming desire, but that this went deeper than that. He said he felt very inadequate and I have been trying to help him deal with those feelings.

Deeper .. in what sence? My guess is, you got in touch with a deeper layer of you sexuality and your emotions, which is generally good.
But no need to hurry to conclusions about being polyamorous.
I think in this case you may be experiencing the start of nre or "falling in love". If you have never lived it, it seems like a big deal, but is really not.

He says if I make any moves sexually toward other men (which I don't plan on doing) we'll need to separate.
...
I am pretty sure at this point that I am sort of wired to want to be sexual with people I am mutually attracted to and that I should really be able to experience different things with multiple people.

You realize that you contradict yourself here, don't you?

Meanwhile I am still occasionally hanging out with this guy I kissed (with other people) since this is the first group of friends I really enjoy spending time with.

I understand that your friends are valuable, but this doesn't help the negotiation with your husband. You might consider taking a break from seeing this other guy until attraction calms down.

I'm just not sure how to move forward. I really don't want to start over since I love my partner and would like to continue growing and changing with him.

Is he up to growing and changing at all?

I'd also like to see him feel the same raw energy I felt when I kissed someone else, but he doesn't believe me.

IMO the intention of showing him your energy with another man doesn't work. Been there. When jealous, the guy cannot truly appreciate what he sees even if he is generally open. Your one isn't. Drop the intention.

What might work is a) discovering the same passion with him, or b) if he happens to experience the same on his own.

he's just not communicating with me effectively most of the time.

That's a real problem in considering poly.
Anyway, how long has it been? Two weeks? Perhaps too soon to be accepting after a shock.

Possibilities I see?
a) Break up, persue the new guy or whom ever, date around, get to know yourself.
b) Cut contact with the new guy. Let your feelings calm down. If you don't hold on it, the desire will faint. You will remember it but not be overwhelmed. Get to terms with where you are, and see the room for improvement. From that place? You can either (or all of this):
- stay monogamous
- decide to explore your sexuality in some other way, like experimenting with your current partner in the diade (trying new things in bed, visiting a sex positive event together, just to see what others enjoy, going to a workshop... ).
The you can try some soft swinging, cuddle party etc., if he can agree to that.
If you get to know a community, you both may gradually open up to a partner swich or so. For me personally, bdsm events work that way. And tantra is great - it goes to the core of getting to know your emotions and physical responses in this area.
- reopen the discussion to be polyamory or polysexuality with much less pressure (though I see your partner pretty clear at not wanting them)
c) keep up what you are doing (thinking about opening up with no support of the partner and seeing the guy who set this all off) and deal with the mess.

 

[CTF]

I agree with the others. But to give you a little perspective on where you're coming from (something I am quite familiar with), you need to realize the likelihood, that he does not, and possibly never will have the interest in seeking the same "raw energy" as you feel. As much as you might think you're wired for it, know that he is most assuredly wired not to. It doesn't mean that either one of you is in the wrong, but the worst thing one can do, is just assume that they're only against it because they don't have another partner either. If he had that inclination, then he'd have probably done what you did first.

When he says that he will not consent to poly, or opening up, believe him. Trust me, he doesn't want it.

In the end, you have choices to make. Either you stay monogamous & remain together, or you explore something with party guy (or anyone else for that matter) and end your relationship.

Reading the books is all fine & dandy, if you BOTH feel that this is worth trying. They can certainly be useful with exercises in how to manage jealousy regarding seeing each other with different partners, but if he has no interest in learning to deal with that, they're a waste of time in helping out your own relationship.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you are struggling.

FWIW? Here's what jumps out at me:

I've been in a committed mono relationship for four years with a male partner who is ten years senior, living together. I moved thousands of miles to be with my partner and was a virgin, emotionally and physically, when we met.

Meanwhile I am still occasionally hanging out with this guy I kissed (with other people) since this is the first group of friends I really enjoy spending time with. I'm having a lot of trouble not acting on impulses.

You were a virginal 19 when you started with your current partner. He's been your only partner. You sound lonely. Maybe lonely for people closer to your age? Are you feeling stifled in your current relationship?

I happen to think people that young CAN decide they want to be with one partner for the rest of their life if they have already explored and know themselves well. But you don't sound like that. You sound like you still have more of you to get to know and more experiences you want to have while doing it:

I had, in fact, never discovered my own sexuality really until the night of the party. Suddenly I was a new person and viewed everything, and everybody, differently.

TLTR

He's not up for polyamory. He prefers to separate. I think the best thing to do is to accept his limits and separate so you can be free to date others.

LONG VERSION

I know you would prefer this...

I really don't want to start over since I love my partner and would like to continue growing and changing with him.

To me it does not sound like he is up for you growing and changing. Also does not sound like he wants changes in himself, or the relationship. Much less making changes moving toward a poly model. He likes things the same, he wants to be the same, he wants you the same, he wants the relationship model the same -- just you and him. A model where you defer to him. He isn't a bad guy for wanting what he wants, but if what he wants no longer matches what you now want? You are not the person to be pursuing all that with.

You have become incompatible. You have gone as far as you can go together. You have grown apart and in different directions.

You don't want to start over, but you may have to start over anyway. BECAUSE your partner does not want growth or changes you do. At best, he sounds like he wants you to "get it our of your system" and then go back in the box. And you do not seem to want that.

He also behaves like this:

He refuses to talk about how it makes him feel, about how he is feeling right now. He tends to shelve his own feelings and not talk about them with me, or if he does, he'll out-logic me and intentionally drive me into a corner until I relent. That's how he has always communicated.

That last part is bullying. Are you able to see that?

Is that why he chose you so young at 19 and he 29? Because you would be more likely to defer to him and his older person's wisdom? Then things go smooth. Rather than work on his own way of relating over the years and developing his emotional maturity and conflict resolution style?

Something to consider. Because if after 5 years he still relates this way to you, his supposed nearest and dearest, you want to spend the rest of your life relating that way? Someone who is closed off to you, and who intentionally drives you into a corner til you relent and he gets his way?

I'm not trying to add to your upset here. And I could be wrong.

But I get the vibe you are bored with the relationship, you are outgrowing him, and it is hard to process. First serious BF is usually first break up, and when you have never broken up before, it hard to know how to do it and it's hard to know that you will be ok after. A person who has dated more, knows those things -- they know they can break up, they know they will be sad, but they also know they will be ok in the end and be happy again. So the idea of breaking up doesn't seem as huge. They have more experience under their belt.

Because you love him, I see that you want him to be able to grow and change too so you can keep being together. But you are having trouble with him NOT growing/changing.

So I happen to think whole thing is more about "outgrowing my partner" than it is about "polyamory." I would resolve that first before you do anything else. Poly is not a bandaid for avoiding thinking about deep compatibility or a bandaid to avoid breaking up.

If you move on to date others and think about polyamory at THAT point in time, worry about that at THAT point in time.

Right now it seems to be more about (reassessing if you and your existing partner are still long haul compatible or not.) So think that out. Do the soul searching you need to do. And if you find you are not compatible any more, you could come to terms with that and let it end with grace.

Don't push him on the poly thing. He's already told you no poly, he would prefer to separate. Respect that.

I think you are a young adult 20's. It's a good time in life to play the field. So I think you could separate and do the exploring you seem to want to do.

Galagirl

 

[Vulpis]

Wow, thank you everyone for the great responses. What a supportive, interesting community!

GalaGirl and Tinwen, you are right that I have not had a chance to explore my own sexuality. Although I don't necessarily feel stifled, I have often felt lonely and confused. I live in a very large city and have a lot of trouble connecting in meaningful ways with other people. This was why I was not, and am still not willing to let go of this friend group just to avoid one person. I don't actually have other friends right now.

There was definitely some NRE involved in my lust for the outside partner, but that has since faded about 80-90%. I've been quite careful not to be alone with him and have been very careful about alcohol consumption.

You realize that you contradict yourself here, don't you?

Although I feel I may be wired to want to express myself sexually with multiple people (as you've all pointed out, I don't actually know myself well enough to say that), that doesn't mean I plan on doing it at present. That would be selfish considering the state of my relationship.

My choices are more clear than they were. As Tinwen guessed, it has only been a few weeks since the "incident" occurred. Right now there is also a possibly chronic illness that is affecting my partner and so it isn't fair of me to keep trying to bring this up while he is so worried about his own health. I've been selfish and insensitive to his needs, focusing way too much on mine.

I am hoping that once the illness is not an important factor in our lives, I can bring up the subject again and hope that he is more open to it. If not, I fear I won't be able to "go back to the box".

Is that why he chose you so young at 19 and he 29?

I should clarify that I pursued him, not the other way around. Although his argument strategy can be overly aggressive, he is generally just rational and logical to a fault, unable to see why or how my emotions are factoring in. I don't see this as bullying, but he has been working on a softer approach anyway.

I don't want to use poly as a bandaid, I just want to explore. For me it's a very straightforward request, but he's having a lot of trouble seeing it in a way that doesn't make him feel inadequate. I don't want to try to find a partner to replace him. It does make me sad to think that he might not be able to enjoy exploring alongside me, as you have all pointed out. That would leave the relationship always one-sided if it was open, which seems like it would be more damaging than helpful.

Not sure if exploring directly with my partner is an option. I barely can get him to acknowledge that he masturbates, and he flat out refuses to try it in front of me or with me.

I think what is needed right now is time. I am moving to another city for university in September, and while living apart, it might be a good chance to reevaluate everything and perhaps reconsider the style of relationship we both want.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Vulpis,
Sorry you're going through this difficult situation.

It seems to me that it comes down to this: Your partner doesn't want nonmonogamy in his life, and will break up with you if you decide to get involved with anyone besides/in addition to him. You, I think, are hoping he will eventually change his mind. One thing you'll have to decide is how long you're willing to wait. What if it takes him a year? five years? fifty years? Do you want to wait your whole life long (or until he passes away)?

If not, then you'll have to decide what to do about it when your willing-to-wait duration expires. Will you take him, or nonmonogamy? because I have a feeling you won't be able to take both. I don't think he's going to change his mind. But I could be wrong.

You mentioned that maybe he'd change his mind if he experienced the same passion you experienced. So if you could just convince him to make out with someone ... and maybe on some level you're hoping we (your fellow forum members) can tell you how to convince him to try that. Or how to convince him to change his mind about nonmonogamy in some other fashion. Now, maybe someone here can help you out with that, but alas, I wouldn't be that someone. I don't know how to get your partner to change his mind. I don't know how to convince him to experience the passion that you experienced. Maybe I'll think of a way later, but I have to say I'm doubtful about that.

My recommendation is to give him some time to change his mind on his own, maybe six months, a year, two years, something along those lines. Something that you could live with. And maybe once every month or two you could ask him if he's changed his mind at all, and notify him that it's still important to you. If your decided waiting time expires and he's still holding to his position, I would consider breaking up with him.

Now, there will no doubt be some who would disagree with my plan. They might say it's cold and manipulative, and that you should decide right now whether you're willing to be monogamous with him for life, and if you're not, then you should break up with him right now. And that's a valid plan too. It's really up to you. I just suggest a waiting period because, well, the situation doesn't seem urgent to me. But maybe it is.

In any case I see that you are rather torn up about this, and I do feel for you. I hope this thread will help you to figure out what to do.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Tinwen]

Hello Vulpis,
your intentions post sound good to me in general, I like that NRE has mostly faded already and that you want to wait until health issues are a little more settled. You will have a better strategic starting position then. I wouldn't wait too long though (like weeks, not months), especially if this is likely to be a false alarm.

it isn't fair of me to keep trying to bring this up while he is so worried about his own health. I've been selfish and insensitive to his needs, focusing way too much on mine.

I don't think you are selfish. I think it is not constructive to discuss while anxious. Otherwise, there is no reason to guilt yourself. This was a very important experience to you and it is good to follow it up. He can deal with anxiety.

he is generally just rational and logical to a fault, unable to see why or how my emotions are factoring in.
...
Not sure if exploring directly with my partner is an option. I barely can get him to acknowledge that he masturbates, and he flat out refuses to try it in front of me or with me.

Those two things are connected. To me, this would be a huge issue. To me, this type of people lacks an important skill. I have learned by experience, that I never ever again want to be in a relationship with someone, who is unaware of his own emotions or closed off to communicating them. To me, I don't want to be with someone, who is in denial about emotions and sexuality and doesn't want to do anything about it.
It is not impossible to live with a person who is emotionally shut down, but I think until he opens up, if he ever does, the relationship lacks one dimension.
Also, until he himself wishes to open up, I don't think poly is even a choice for him. It takes to accept his own sexuallity, at least a little bit, until he can really accept other peoples sexual freedom. But maybe he would want to accept his own sexuality? Maybe you can offer a safe place for him? Question to ask?
BTW, I was cut off from my feeling too, and I didn't know (until I got really depressed, and had to confront it). I am no longer that way. But it has been years of therapy.

I am moving to another city for university in September, and while living apart, it might be a good chance to reevaluate everything and perhaps reconsider the style of relationship we both want.

Yes, then you will have to do the thinking at that point of time at latest. What was the idea of handling LDR up to now?

 

[GalaGirl]

I should clarify that I pursued him, not the other way around.

He still chose to be with you. He could have declined your pursual.

From your writing it still strikes me like you are the more emotionally mature of the two even though you have less dating experience.

If it boils down to this right now?

I think what is needed right now is time. I am moving to another city for university in September, and while living apart, it might be a good chance to reevaluate everything and perhaps reconsider the style of relationship we both want.

That's one way to go. Postpone for now and address it when you move.

Are you thinking Open while apart? Something else?

Galagirl

 

[WhatHappened]

From your writing it still strikes me like you are the more emotionally mature of the two even though you have less dating experience.

Keeping in mind we're hearing one side of the story here. [Although I don't actually see the poster as 'more emotionally mature' than him, anyway.]

There've been a lot of words devoted to this when it boils down to this:

Your boyfriend does not want an open relationship. He's not obligated to have an open relationship. You're going to have to choose whether you want monogamy with him, or sex with other men.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Welcome here, Vulpis! Plenty of big-hearted people in these forums, with a wide range of relational experience.

However, I don't see where you're particularly polyamorous. You & your husband have widely mismatched needs for exploring sexual/sensual/emotional interactions with others. You barely know anything about monogamy, let alone multiple relating.

And in order to be with him, you abandoned friends, family, & familiar surroundings. I'm not saying there's some echoes of creepy cultish mind-control here, but...

You sound more like you want The Wing-Walker's Rule of serial monogamy: "Don't let go of one thing until you've got hold of another."

I'd say you're investing waaaaaaayyy too much expectation in the guy you sucked face with, at a party, while stupid-drunk -- any further depth is probably just Romantic tripe you're layering onto it.

My guess is you're psyching yourself up to dive headlong into another ill-advised relationship because you're afraid to even risk being an individual human being rather than the next "+1" for some stranger who toddles along & is "nice" to you (by taking advantage of you while you're emotionally desperate & clearly inebriated...?).

Furthermore,

while he is so worried about his own health. I've been selfish and insensitive to his needs

makes it sound as though you've been recruited as a live-in nursemaid, not a lover, & certainly not a friend. You might want to ponder the implications of caregiver & caretaker --
Codependency & addictive behavior

 

[Vulpis]

While I appreciate the concern from those pointing out the possibility of manipulation and over-dependence, I don't believe that is at play here. I have been insensitive to needs that are more dire than my own. My partner is a very anxious person, so the illness he has been dealing with is affecting him more than it would most people. He needs my support right now to move past that before I can even think about re-introducing something as emotionally charged as polyamory. My needs, for this particular issue, do not outweigh his in the current state of the relationship, but they may in the future.

My recommendation is to give him some time to change his mind on his own

I like the idea of a timeline. My needs are not urgent. To me this is not an either or scenario unless he really wants it to be. If he does, I think everyone is right that I have an obvious choice to make. I guess my issue is that it's very difficult to make that choice when I don't have experience with the alternative.

What was the idea of handling LDR up to now?

The plan was for me to visit every other weekend or so. I'm only moving a couple hours away. We haven't discussed it at length yet; it's on the to do list.

From your writing it still strikes me like you are the more emotionally mature of the two even though you have less dating experience.

Keeping in mind we're hearing one side of the story here. [Although I don't actually see the poster as 'more emotionally mature' than him, anyway.]

I am not the more emotionally mature individual, I'm just more in tune with my own emotions. There's a difference there, I think. I'll still throw tantrums if I'm not careful with myself.

You barely know anything about monogamy, let alone multiple relating.

Hence my desire to explore.

To re-iterate this point, this whole mess is not about party guy. Party guy was just the person who made me realize that there are other people on the planet that I can connect with in a sexual way, that I have in fact not "lost eyes for all others", and that I am sexually assertive when I am confident in myself. Certainly there is some desire specific to him, but I have it under control now.

Hard to know what I want when I can only see one side of the fence.

 

[Vulpis]

Things are not going well.

A few nights ago, Partner read some texts on my phone that seemed to upset him, but he didn't want to talk about it. I let it go and said he could talk to me if he wanted to at a later time.

Last night, while he was a bit drunk, Partner was texting with a mutual friend. I asked what they were saying, and Partner evaded the question. I laughed and, curious, asked again. Partner responded with "It's not like I'm flirting with him," and that started a very nasty fight.

The fight started okay. I asked how he was feeling about what he had read on my phone and he was very evasive, saying things like "How do you think I feel?" and "How would you feel?" while not telling me exactly what he had read. As far as I knew my texting with friends was perfectly platonic in nature, with maybe a flirt thrown in here or there.

I explained how I felt, that we needed to have more discussions about the possibility of opening up and that I wouldn't be able to shelve my feelings. I told him I want to know myself and learn that with him, not against him. Blah blah blah.

He left the room.

An hour later, we had probably the worst fight in our relationship's history. Some truths were said. We slept apart.

Tonight, we revisited the argument while in better moods. He told me he thinks I'm being manipulative and pushing him farther than he wants to go, and I told him I would make an effort to be better, but that I don't consider flirtation to be breaking boundaries unless he wants to add new ones. He explained he was uncomfortable with the entire package of how I've been acting, that I'm basically a completely different person who is trying to manipulate him into letting me do whatever I want. He kept saying he didn't believe me when I told him things I felt.

He doesn't believe:

• That I am not starting a romantic relationship with Party Guy
• That my desire is about sexual connection, not sexual acts
• That I have set boundaries with my friends

He said he doesn't trust me, he doesn't know who I am anymore, he didn't sign up for this, he doesn't think he'll ever be okay with it, he thought he wanted to be with me forever but now he isn't sure.

He started crying. He never cries.

I'm staying somewhere else right now. He said he needs a lot of time. He said he doesn't know what to do.

How could this possibly be so important to me that I could ever hurt the person I love over it? If I could bottle it all up again and never look at it again I would a thousand times. I don't deserve him. How could I have done this? What have I done?

 

[Magdlyn]

Just want to point out that Vulpis is not married to her guy. She called him Partner, let's go with that.

Partner seems very emotionally withdrawn. Unable to express his emotions. Throwing it back at you, Vulpis, when asked to speak: "How do you think I feel? How would you feel...?" instead of just speaking his own heart.

Now, of course, men are trained in our society to not express feelings. Sigh... from a young age, they are constantly told, "Big boys don't cry. Suck it up. Walk it off."

Now he has finally cried to you, Vulpis. (Hey, it's a start.) But he's not liking this at all, you feeling attracted to another man. He is snooping on your phone and feeling jealous you even talk to your platonic friends. Imagining the worst. He is also in denial, not just of his emotions, but his sexuality. He won't even admit to masturbating, much less enjoy doing that while having sex with you, no mutual masturbation at all? To me, that is a big red flag. "Look at how pure I am. I don't even jerk off. I keep all my sperm for you. But here you are, throwing yourself at another guy, you slut! You whore!" That is what I read into it. (My ex husband was the same way. Of course, he was lying. He did jerk off, and he did get attracted to other women. He just said he didn't in an attempt to control my sexuality. He admitted all this finally, in couples counseling and in our long drawn out tiresome talks.)

Your Partner has always been this way. Closed off emotionally, closed off to sexual exploration. He chose to get involved with a teenager when he was 29. At those ages, there is a huge gap in experience and self knowledge. He may have felt "safe" with you, since he could lead and never be questioned.

Now, you are catching up. You're over the hero worship stage and on to: Who am I? Who is Vulpis, how does she prefer to relate to others? To platonic friends, to potential other lovers?

He may be growing and changing. Other posters have said you are growing and changing but he isn't. Everyone grows and changes. They sometimes just change in incompatible ways, and grow apart. Then again, he might be fighting change, trying to be "conservative," because change makes him anxious. He has anxiety disorder. He shoves his feelings down. He demands you tell him how to feel, in a bratty sarcastic way. Pffft. Who has time for that? Life is short.

Look at this as a starter relationship for you. You learned some things about yourself, and how to be in relationship, but now you've come to the realization, you don't get along anymore with a man so closed off emotionally, lacking interest in experimenting sexually (even something so simple as touching his own dick and admitting he does so), so anxious and jealous.

"Relationship gone bad, add other people," is a recipe for disaster. You've got a life to lead. If you want to completely close down the poly discussion until his physical health improves, out of a feeling of duty, fine. Up to you. But in September you will be moving out. Going to school 2 hours away! Of course you will be tempted by other students you meet. Long distance relationships are hard. Partner will be suspicious constantly you are forming sexual or romantic relationships with others in your new city. He will even be jealous of your platonic friends.

Cat is out of the bag. Barn door open, horse is out.

He no longer has you in your safe little box, and he knows it. He wants a mono partner, or wife. You're too young to shut down your explorations. You're just beginning to flower! Do you see the benefits to yourself of grasping hold of a new freedom, of learning how to relate to people, to grow, experience life and joy? It's not selfish to be true to yourself. Fitting yourself into a box just to please him will breed resentment and warp your mind and soul. And he will never trust you again, and will punish you in an infinite number of ways, forever.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry there was a fight. But what happened really?

• You noticed he seemed upset or "off."
  
• You tried to connect and asked what is wrong. He was evasive wanting you to mind reader his feelings rather than responding directly to questions.
• Then he blew up.
• He accused you of being manipulative and pushing him farther than he wants to go.

I don't see you manipulating anything. I see you reported where you were at. And you reported that you had a flirtation with Party Guy. You said you would like to Open if he's up for it. He said he is not up for it, and if you want to do that, best you guys break up. You decided to stay and be Closed. Sounds like things were solved. So how is this pushing him?

You also explained you do not consider flirtation to be breaking current boundaries, but are willing to discuss adding new ones. Again, not pushing. You seem to be willing to problem solve here.

What's he doing? Does he want to problem solve? Nope.

You have discovered new things about yourself. You have realized that there are other people on the planet that you can connect with in a sexual way, that you have in fact not "lost eyes for all others", and that you am sexually assertive when you are confident in yourself. Does that mean you are running around breaking agreements jumping everyone's bones? NO. You had a slip up, you made him aware, and now you are wanting to move forward. You are willing to be Closed.

Instead of thanking you for your honesty, and appreciating your willingness to reaffirm and continue with current agreements? Or take the opportunity you are giving to tweak agreements? I see that he's working himself up, snooping in your phone for "evidence", getting drunk, and watching you with suspicious eyes because he doesn't trust you. If he no longer trusts you he could simply break up with you and move on. Instead he's wanting to do what? Fight with you? How's that help anything?

I see that you are sad he is hurting, but that doesn't make you responsible for his feelings or his behavior. When you report where YOU are at, that is not you doing things TO him. That is you reporting where you are at. If he's thinking things and working himself up, then HE is thinking things and HE is working himself up.

He doesn't believe:
That I am not starting a romantic relationship with Party Guy
That my desire is about sexual connection, not sexual acts
That I have set boundaries with my friends

He doesn't trust you. And it's going to be hard to be with someone who doesn't trust you.

I'm staying somewhere else right now.

TBH? I think this is the start of the crack up. I also think it is ok to LET IT crack up and let it end. Don't be in a rush to swoop back in and prop him up and "prove" how much you love him. Love doesn't have to be proven.

If you go back, I think he's going keep breaking boundaries like snooping in your phone. Increase "policing" you because of HIS mistrust. Not healthy.

I'm going to suggest you stay living apart. Especially since you are leaving for school in September. If he already doesn't trust you living there with him, he's not going to trust you living away in September.

I guess my issue is that it's very difficult to make that choice when I don't have experience with the alternative.

Hard to know what I want when I can only see one side of the fence.

You seem to be saying you don't know if you really want the freedom TO date other people because all you have ever known is this first adult relationship. How would you know it was worth it? Or if the new relationship would be better than this one?

You would prefer if he would be ok with it and explore this with you, but he doesn't want to. So you don't know with certainty if you want to give up this relationship and explore the freedom to date others on your own when you are reaching for unknown.

Well, here's another freedom to consider: Freedom FROM.

Maybe you end it no so much to explore the freedom TO date other people. But because you want freedom FROM.

• Freedom from dealing with an emotionally closed off person
• Freedom from him pushing you away whenever things are rough instead of coming together to problem solve.
• Freedom from bullying -- where he'll out-logic you and intentionally drive you into a corner until you relent
• Freedom FROM being accused of things
• Freedom from him snooping on your phone rather than simply asking
• Freedom FROM having to deal with someone who will evade, blame, or act out
• Freedom FROM someone guilt tripping you and trying to make you responsible for his feelings.

You guys just don't sound deeply compatible to me. Certainly not compatible enough to handle LDR well when you leave for school.

You could stay living elsewhere and end it. You could begin to enjoy freedom FROM all this. You could enjoy your last months in this town with this circle of friends that you like. You could enjoy a fresh start and building new community when you go to school elsewhere in September. You could call this a first adult relationship, where you learned some things. You could move on to have other adult relationships you will learn other things.

How could this possibly be so important to me that I could ever hurt the person I love over it? If I could bottle it all up again and never look at it again I would a thousand times. I don't deserve him. How could I have done this? What have I done?

I see you blaming yourself for HIS thinking things and working himself up over it and then HIS acting out.

I suggest you not do that. Do not blame yourself for trying to be honest with your partner as things happen with you. That's a good thing to do. He cannot be a mind reader. It is your job to make him aware of what's going on and where you are at.

Him not being able to handle authentic you? That's his inability, not yours.

You could decide you want a partner who CAN appreciate you being up front and honest. Someone who can not only take it, but LOVES this quality in you! Someone who can relate with you on that level without freaking out. Someone more emotionally resilient.

Galagirl

 

[nycindie]

Vulpis, you haven't hurt him. He is choosing to hurt himself with the information he was given. He is emotionally guarded and possibly a bit immature/stunted/overly-dependent, thought you were HIS, and now discovers that you belong to yourself and will always be your own person.

He wanted to own you, to a degree. You've done him a favor by opening his eyes to reality.

Now do yourself a favor and leave him. You have your life to live. Go away to college and have a social life, have sex with whomever you want, claim your freedom. You are young, with so many experiences ahead of you - don't waste your life by putting it on hold for someone who will not look at himself and own up to his fears, insecurities, assumptions, and idealizations. Don't put your life on hold for someone who doesn't accept you for who you are and makes all sorts of excuses to justify not treating you with respect. Though I know it feels shitty right now, you'll look back someday and realize you needed to be out of that situation and relationship.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Vulpis, sorry to hear things are going so badly. I agree with the others that you haven't done anything terrible. You stumbled into a truth about yourself, that's all.

 

[Vulpis]

A couple hours after I posted last Partner called me. He said he wasn't ready to push me away, that he can't imagine life without me, that he's not strong enough. He is worried I am planning to have an affair. He fears the future, believing that I will push him continuously, even in a year, toward opening up, and that if he doesn't agree, I will cheat on him or break up with him to explore whatever person is tempting me at that time.

He said he was trying to figure out whether to take a break from the relationship, essentially break up with me (though he calls it a break). He said that thinking of me with other people during that break terrified him. He does not want to be a "backup" and would not believe me when I tried to explain that he would be my first and foremost, that his needs would be held over third parties. I tried to describe it the way friendships work, only sexual connections might be added.

He still views those connections as a special form of intimacy that he can't imagine having with someone who isn't me. He doesn't understand that I don't hold intimacy as a sacred thing for only two people, that I view it as multifaceted even if my intimacy with him is extremely important and unique.

As far as him being closed off emotionally, I halfway agree with everyone. He explained that he does not understand how I can't put myself in his shoes and know how he feels. I kind of understand where he is coming from, but I can't know what he is ready to deal with and move past if he can't communicate his feelings clearly. I may know he feels bad, but is it fear? Anger? Guilt? I can't possibly know, can I? Am I asking too much?

I came back to him after talking on the phone for an hour. We spent the rest of the early morning eating junk food.

I still really feel like this is all my fault, and that having sexual connections with other people should not be so important to me. It is, though, and I don't know if I like that. But the idea of closing myself off from such beautiful connections forever just seems sad and limiting.

He fears that my texting with Party Guy is sending the wrong messages. Partner is probably right that I am fostering sexual tension, but he views it as much more romantic and important than that. I agreed to limit my texts to the basics of communication for right now although I am pretty certain that Party Guy views it the same as I do: good fun.

We agreed to revisit the issue in a few months, probably when I move. I think he is just putting off breaking up with me until he is in a better position emotionally on his own. I'm actually okay with that if that is what he decides he needs to do. I will not abandon our relationship when he is this vulnerable.

It frustrates me that he refuses to read even chapters or passages from the books. Not even the general ones about communication.

I do not see how we can survive. I fear losing him, even though I know I would eventually recover. He is a beautiful person and I want to be with him, but I know that he is not willing to step out of his comfort bubble.

 

[GalaGirl]

You seem to see that you two are not deeply compatible and so does he.

He is worried I am planning to have an affair. He fears the future, believing that I will push him continuously, even in a year, toward opening up, and that if he doesn't agree, I will cheat on him or break up with him to explore whatever person is tempting me at that time.

If that's how he's feeling, I am not sure how postponing helps. I would imagine that breaking up NOW would be sad for him but it could also bring major mental relief. That he isn't going to be cheated on, that he doesn't have to worry about being constantly pushed into poly, etc. All being together seems to do is prolong his mental anguish and fears. Seems kinder to end his anguish than to prolong it.

But I guess you guys are together til you leave in September and then will break up for good? Is that the plan for handling this?

I guess that works, so long as both are super clear about that. There's never going to be a "good" time to break up. One just gets on with it.

I still really feel like this is all my fault, and that having sexual connections with other people should not be so important to me. It is, though, and I don't know if I like that. But the idea of closing myself off from such beautiful connections forever just seems sad and limiting.

You guys having grown apart/wanting different things is NOBODY'S fault. It's just wanting different things that are no longer compatible.

Galagirl

 

[nycindie]

Vulpis, you are obviously very intelligent and very compassionate. My only hope for you is that you don't join him in avoiding what is true for you and let him sweep things under the rug. You don't want to wind up waiting so long to express who you are sexually and in love relationships that you wind up having regrets about what could have been.

A lot of people who are twice your age look back and regret how they locked themselves away in tightly entwined relationships at an early age when a whole world was open to them. When you finally embrace the breadth of who you are in your 50s, 60s, or older, instead of your 20s, your choices are limited (not to mention your energy!) and sometimes you wonder how much time you have left.

I became sexually active in the 1970s. I don't know if this is a hippie attitude that prevailed at the time or something I learned from my experiences, but I've long considered sex as simply a form of communication and self-expression. It can indeed be a beautiful way to connect with another human being, even when it's just a quickie for fun, and a wonderful path to self-knowledge. I think it is very healthy for a young woman your age to want to explore having sex with other people, to find out what kinds of intimate connections are possible. I am grateful that I did that when I was 23 - I learned so much about myself from my relationships, no matter how short-lived they were.

I remember that a wise person told me that the 20s is all about exploring, having fun, taking chances, fucking up, and learning from your mistakes, and he was right. I wish you the best on your journey.