not-quite-poly: lovers & friends w/ benefits

[MeeraReed]

Poly means having multiple boyfriends/girlfriends/partners. The idea is to be serious & committed & to be building relationships with each of your partners...

But there are other forms of non-monogamy that work better for some people. For example, I feel like I would rather have one or more lovers / friends with benefits than one or more boyfriends.

So how exactly is a lover different from a boyfriend? It's not just about the sex for me, because I would care deeply about a lover and want to do non-sexual things with him as well.

But something about the label "boyfriend" doesn't describe the type of relationship I want. I don't like the feeling of being "coupled" or the expectation that things must "progress" to something more serious. Or the expectation that you must spend every minute with someone.

And I hate the term "friends with benefits," but I love having a friend to have sex with, without it being anything more than a friendship that involves sex.

Some people might insist that these types of arrangements are little more than casual sex, but I don't feel that way. Still, they are a long way from a committed life partnership.

I struggle with dating because I struggle to define what I'm looking for...I feel like I have an alternative relationship orientation but that it can't quite be called "poly"...yet I'm drawn to poly because I know I wouldn't want to give up my lover-friends if I wanted to get serious with someone.

And I know some people identify as poly and also have FWBs or lovers that aren't necessarily significant others. Or maybe became poly because of feelings that grew out of having lover-friends.

There's a lot of information out there about how to have healthy, happy poly relationships. I need more resources for how to have not-quite-poly relationships. Of course, some of it's the same, like the communication, but I think some of it is different, too.

Because someone might have a girlfriend and a FWB, and everyone is open and honest and ethically non-monogamous, but it's not about loving everyone equally.

Can you have a husband and a lover? How is that different from having a husband and a boyfriend?

Can you have a FWB that you are actually friends with? How do you make sure a FWB feels valued and cared for, even while both are clear that it will not progress to a relationship?

And why is it expected that a FWB is someone you must keep secret and be ashamed about? I've been puzzled in the past when I've had a lover-friend who makes me happy and that I like talking about--but my (platonic) friends don't want to hear about it because we're not "serious" and he's not a "real boyfriend."

"I guess it's fine for now," they might say, even when the arrangement lasted months to years.

(I have sex rarely and never in a super-casual way, so my friends aren't objecting to me bragging about sexual conquests or something).

And how do you meet a new FWB when all the single men who used to be everywhere are now married with babies? And anyone who claims to want a FWB really just wants sex with no strings attached?

I struggle with feeling that what I want doesn't really exist. Or that I will have to settle for being someone who is valued less because I don't enjoy the intensity of a "relationship."

 

[DomGeek]

I can understand what you mean.

I find my self wondering those things as well. I have even been asking myself how to classify what I am looking for.

It seems so much easier in fiction the reality.

The weird thing is that now that I have been researching this I have been applying that research to my past experiences and found that I seem to have longed for it in one form or another.

While some might say that is typical to my gender i find that a stereotypical response.

I have even pulled myself out the "game" for the better part of a decade, I find trying to get back in is daunting.

anyways I felt that i had to express that I understood what you mean and enjoyed reading it.

 

[feelyunicorn]

And how do you meet a new FWB when all the single men who used to be everywhere are now married with babies? And anyone who claims to want a FWB really just wants sex with no strings attached?

Hey, there`s one of us left.

The OP describes exactly the kind of relationship I would like as well. I hate possessive labels, and I certainly abhor the idea of getting married, although I think it`s a good thing for most people.

That`s exactly what I want, friends I have feelings for, that I have sex with, but unrelated to a progression toward possessive labels, or some kind of a priori 'forever' vow or expectation. I hate predicting the future, although wishes are fine.

The only differences we might have perhaps is that I do have casual sex. I think some people are compatible with me in that way. For a couple nights. Some others in the way you describe.

As for the being ashamed of your lovers issue, I am definitely not. It`s not something I would hide at all, though I do seek someone who avoids PDA and all the public 'claiming' body language of possessive relationships. For one thing, I think it`s rude and insensitive to people around you.

I would like someone who is friends in public, and affectionate in private. Wish you were near OP. I have a tremendous respect for women (and, people in general) who are able to remain independent for extended periods of time.

Why are all the women married with babies?

Edit: The other point you (OP) bring up that is important and I had forgotten to mention is me time! I think polys are much more educated about me time than your mono hetero normative couple, but since polyamory seems to be more interwoven with marriage, kids, and cohabitation, I think it`s worth drawing attention to.

 

[nycindie]

Meera,
I love all the questions you're asking. You and I are very similar in what we hope to have in our non-mono lives. And I love that you're calling it "not-quite-poly." You also hit upon some important points, for me. Basically, the whole aversion to couplehood and all the expectations placed upon anyone who has a regular lover. It's like the whole world is expecting me to move my relationships in a particular direction.

I don't have a ton of friends, though I do have a lot of friendly acquaintances. I'm not one of these people who collects friends wherever they go, so my deeper friendships are very dear and special to me. To be able to connect physically with one of my close male friends to whom I happen to be sexually attracted is something that is also incredibly meaningful to me. But do I need to turn that into marriage or him into a boyfriend? Hell, no!

This is the distinction I see between having casual sex and a casual relationship. Casual sex is just about getting off, while casual relationships are so much more. They can be genuinely caring and affectionate, full of deeper feelings, and yet allow for space, distance, and autonomy. I wrote more about that in another thread, here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=129592&postcount=10

And, yes, I also feel that the basics of polyamory can apply because we would ideally be managing multiple of these wonderful lover-friendships - but we probably have less rules, LOL.

I shared something about this awhile back in my blog. I stated:

"I want lovers who are friends, who accept my love but don't freak out or want to build some structure around it. I don't want a partner who has a say in how I run my life. I don't want just casual sex and complete detachment but I know I don't want a primary. I want a level of commitment, but not to partnership... I have long had this vision of being single, solitary, and strong. [In my vision,] the joy [my lover-friends and I] feel with each other is genuine, there is no expectation to be or move toward anything more than what we are to each other... When we're together, each of my lovers has my full attention and feel no lack or sense of competition. There is love, sex, intimacy, sharing of feelings, deep thinking, and treasured moments, but no demands that we fulfill any roles for each other. Just "loving who we're with." ...I think maybe what I want is somewhere between a FWB and a boyfriend. Wondering how to adjust my OKC profile to reflect this, heh... I just don't know what to call it, how to ask for it, what to project into the world so that it comes to me."​

SourGirl had responded and gave me the idea to start calling what I want "lover-friends," which fits so perfectly. She also used the term "Love-NSA." I really liked that.

 

[nycindie]

Something else that just occurred to me the other day: I wondered if it's possible that NRE never really goes away with the more casual FWB-type lover-friend relationships. I mean, when you settle into the real nitty-gritty of a committed bf/gf relationship, we know that eventually the euphoric honeymoon period is over. But with a lover-friend, casual, Love-NSA type thang, maybe the euphoria sticks around a bit. I don't know, but maybe keeping a little distance keeps NRE hanging around longer. Hmmm...

 

[RfromRMC]

I don't see friends-with-benefits as being "not-quite poly". I think they are fully part of poly life if you want them to be.

Example:
I say I'm poly because I want love with more than one person.
I love my boyfriends. I love my friends. And a friend-with-benefits is someone who, in my view, is somewhere in-between a friend and a boyfriend.
Therefore, I can also love a friend-with-benefits. (Notice I say love but not be IN love. There is a difference for sure.)
Ergo, if being poly is loving more than one person, the FWB can count.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Cleo]

Can you have a husband and a lover? How is that different from having a husband and a boyfriend?

I was just thinking about this today and actually just posted the question on my blog when I said, I have (a husband and) 2 lovers, or is it 2 boyfriends, I don't know..

and then I started thinking about it some more and I realized that I see one of them as a lover, and the other as a boyfriend. Both relationships have their pros and cons and they both make me happy. With lover, yes like nycindie says, this is a casual realationship.. there is caring, a strong connection, and its not all about the sex, but its casual.. a lover-friend, for sure...
But with boyfriend, there is much more sharing of daily stuff, being more involved in eachothers emotional lives (although not yet really in each others real day to day lives).
But I would describe neither of them as men I have 'committed partnerships' with.

Of course, the HUGE irony in all of this is that I would sometimes like it if lover were more interested in my daily life, and that I sometimes feel that boyfriend is coming a bit too close.

 

[drtalon]

I need more resources for how to have not-quite-poly relationships. ... Because someone might have a girlfriend and a FWB, and everyone is open and honest and ethically non-monogamous, but it's not about loving everyone equally.

I wasn't aware loving everyone equally was one of the tenets of poly. I don't even think it's reasonable, since everyone is unique and irreplaceable. In the metaphysics of my universe, it's impossible to love everyone equally. (Or any set of one or more people equally to any other set of one or more people, if you want to get technical about it.)

Can you have a husband and a lover?

Sure

How is that different from having a husband and a boyfriend?

You're calling one a lover and one a boyfriend.

Oh, you meant does using those labels for those people in your life carry special meaning about your relationships with them or how you treat each other... In that case, the answer is: it's up to you how those labels indicate different kinds of relationships between you and it's up to you how you treat each other.

Can you have a FWB that you are actually friends with?

Yes. But, more importantly, I think you are hung up on labels to the extent that you're missing the point. You get to decide how you want your relationships work, then you have to negotiate your wants/needs with the people you'd like to have relationships with. If you're lucky, they'll agree or come to compromise with you.

How do you make sure a FWB feels valued and cared for, even while both are clear that it will not progress to a relationship?

How do you make the friends you don't have sex with feel valued and cared for? I think friendships are kinds of relationships, too.

And why is it expected that a FWB is someone you must keep secret and be ashamed about? I've been puzzled in the past when I've had a lover-friend who makes me happy and that I like talking about--but my (platonic) friends don't want to hear about it because we're not "serious" and he's not a "real boyfriend."

I don't agree that FWB have to be kept secret. That said, I also dated (once) a woman who wanted to be FWB but would only be FWB while we both weren't having sex with anyone else. This leads me to believe there are people with ideas about FWB that I completely don't understand.

And how do you meet a new FWB when all the single men who used to be everywhere are now married with babies?

Hi. How you doin'?

I'm childfree by choice and would prefer to remain single, though there are some situations where I would consider marriage as a potential solution.

And anyone who claims to want a FWB really just wants sex with no strings attached?

Maybe. I'm not a woman on a dating site, but I hear it's pretty awful.

 

[OkNewbs]

I would like someone who is friends in public, and affectionate in private.

Does this really exist?? I've decided that, at least for now, this is my perfect situation, but am doubting the reality of it...

 

[dib]

At some point you have to ask yourself "why the labels?". I just use them as they come and if I am comfortable with them. My girlfriend's girlfriend can be just my friend or my girlfriend too, with or without commitment. I don't care what others think or say about my terminology. Do you want your partner to be labeled more than you want a clear definition of rules and regulations surrounding your activities? Just say it like it is. Friend, boyfriend, whatever makes the two or more of you happy...

Honesty in goals and plans can be difficult, especially when discussing the end results of your relationship. But denying you have one is counterproductive. I have a relationship with my cat. Believe me, that's not going any farther than him being fed and him mysteriously gaining 500 lb when I want to get him out of bed. It's the quality and strength of your relationships that you should focus on. If it is and will remain a friendship then focus on that. Does intimacy bring more emotion than you are willing to share with that individual? Take a step back. Not enough love in the mix? Pour it on.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

I've considered myself poly for 2 decades even though my only long term sexual relationships outside of my marriage were FWB (until Dude). With them I am friends first and the "with benefits" secondarily - with long breaks if their situation warrants it - geography, primary partner that is not on board, etc. These breaks don't affect the underlying friendship, just the "benefits" part. There is no expectation of these relationships "progressing" in any way - they are what they are.

When discussing poly with my bestest friend several years ago - she decided that if my relationships with these FWBs, who I wasn't as close to as her, counted as "poly" then SHE counted to (even though there is no sexual component to our relationship) since she is emotionally closer to me than anyone other than my husband - she decided she was my "platonic girlfriend". (I talk about this some in my blog here). If it makes her happy to assign herself that label - more power to her! Her use of a label doesn't change our relationship in any way. I guess I see all relationships as a branching maze of connectivity - some bonds are stronger, some weaker, some involve sex, some don't, some are romantic, some are more emotional, some are more recreational, some last a long-time, some don't, some are family, etc. For some combinations of these (and other factors) we have labels - GF, lover, boyfriend, lover-friend, FWB, mom - etc. But just because we don't have a distinct label doesn't mean a relationship isn't there - and each of these individual relationships is unique unto itself - none is "equal" to another because people are not interchangeable.

Was I not "really" poly until Dude came along? Who knows? Who cares? My poly is not your poly. These words and definitions are just...words and definitions. We use them as shorthand so that we can, hopefully, convey our thoughts to others. They can be used to "describe" a relationship but they don't need to "define" it.

For anyone that I am involved with, flirting with, having sex with, who is not my husband - it is always "friends in public" - my job and profession could be jeopardized otherwise. Nobody has objected yet - nobody's business but ours.

Just my experience.

JaneQ

 

[redpepper]

I'm not a big fan of the term "friends with benefits" either. I prefer "intimate friends" more. To me the term has become too derogatory and indicates that there are no benefits to anything else but sex in these particular friendships. Like its not a benefit to have a friend you like to play tennis with or something. The term makes it sound like they are just a benefit if you want to have sex with them.

I tend to think that poly people are more likely to have sex with friends or at least be okay with it though. So why hide it or not say anything. Really, if everyone is consenting then it shouldn't be a big deal I don't think.

I think there is little difference from FWB/intimate friends to poly relationships other than level of commitment really. Bottom line is you can call your relationships whatever you want as long as you are both understanding where each other comes from. Here's to friends *clink.

 

[Pretzels]

Something else that just occurred to me the other day: I wondered if it's possible that NRE never really goes away with the more casual FWB-type lover-friend relationships. I mean, when you settle into the real nitty-gritty of a committed bf/gf relationship, we know that eventually the euphoric honeymoon period is over. But with a lover-friend, casual, Love-NSA type thang, maybe the euphoria sticks around a bit. I don't know, but maybe keeping a little distance keeps NRE hanging around longer. Hmmm...

I've thought a lot about this, too, since I still get a shit-eating grin every time I see the guys - together or individually.

For me, I think the reason I still feel so intensely for them comes from a range of reasons - we're tremendous friends who, like you, aren't "friend-collectors"; we know that we have different relationships with each of the other in our threesome and that helps prevent the "hostage situation" so many couples lapse into; and, finally, it was just about a year ago that we almost went over into the abyss. We made a conscious choice not to let go of each other not for financial reasons, not for societal reasons but because we each felt like we'd not encounter the same, strong dynamic again in our lives and that wasn't worth losing.

The way we identify in public, T and I as boyfriend and girlfriend with E as our roommate, barely plays out that way when we're alone. It has always been important that we're friends first and lovers second.

 

[FrankLee]

What to call it!

MeeraReed,

That's the best delineation of the terminology I have seen so far on this forum. I'm glad that I saw it because your definition for yourself seems to be more what I consider that I would call myself as well.

I have a personal listed at OKCupid and am having a difficult time describing my intentions as far as non-monogamy goes. It's amazing how quickly others assume the worst stereotype possible.

 

[AutumnalTone]

I shared something about this awhile back in my blog. I stated:

"I want lovers who are friends, who accept my love but don't freak out or want to build some structure around it. I don't want a partner who has a say in how I run my life. ...​

I fail to see how this is different than a boyfriend or spouse. I've never assumed I had much say in how any of my partners run their lives.

 

[nycindie]

I shared something about this awhile back in my blog. I stated:

"I want lovers who are friends, who accept my love but don't freak out or want to build some structure around it. I don't want a partner who has a say in how I run my life. ...​

I fail to see how this is different than a boyfriend or spouse. I've never assumed I had much say in how any of my partners run their lives.

Well, sure. My ex-husband and I were pretty easygoing and independent in our relationship and did not boss each other around, but there were issues we could not agree on which impacted certain choices we each made. When I wrote that, I didn't mean that a partner automatically is in a role of granting permission, but that some people get into a long-term committed relationship with someone and believe that they have to check in with each other about everything before they make a move. I don't want to be joined at the hip like that. I want things a little looser. Not that I wouldn't communicate with a partner, but if it's a relationship where we don't see each other as "partners," and there is plenty of space for us to be ourselves and independent, it is simply easier and more amenable to be able to say what I want to do and just convey to my loves what my choices are (of course, I am not talking about going beyond any agreements we may have).

I guess I could have worded it, "I don't want a partner in the sense of someone who thinks he has a say in how I run my life."

 

[rory]

And why is it expected that a FWB is someone you must keep secret and be ashamed about? I've been puzzled in the past when I've had a lover-friend who makes me happy and that I like talking about--but my (platonic) friends don't want to hear about it because we're not "serious" and he's not a "real boyfriend."

Huh? I really can't understand that kind of behaviour. They don't want to hear about your activities and experiences when they include him but you can talk about things you do with other people, say, platonic friends? Have you talked to your friends about that. If I were in a similar situation, I would let them know I feel bad about them dismissing important things in my life just because I don't have a certain label attached to that...

 

[MeeraReed]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments on this.

(Except for the cheating thread, which doesn't belong here).

Very glad to hear from some kindred spirits about these issues. Thanks, Nycindie, Feelyunicorn, Cleo, and others.

Regarding labels: I don't think I'm hung up on labels. In fact, I find it a little frustrating when people say (about various things), "Oh, that's just labels."

I don't think the distinction between a boyfriend and a lover is just a label. There are reasons that I want one or more lovers rather than one or more boyfriends. But I am struggling to define and articulate exactly what those reasons are and exactly what I should call what I'm looking for.

Sure, labels are only the terms you use to explain your thoughts/situation to other people, but I do need those labels in order to communicate with others!

I did notice something interesting on this thread: most of the responders who are in stable, permanent relationships seem to be less concerned with labels than the responders who are still looking, still unsure what will make them most happy dating-wise, and still on OKCupid.

(Which doesn't mean that people are happier when they give up preoccupation with labels, only that labels become less important when you've found what you're looking for and can define it for yourself).

I'm definitely in the latter category! Still looking! Still confused about labels!

One of the reasons I started this thread was to figure out how to explain what I'm looking for on my OKCupid profile. And then how to explain it further on dates, in relationships, etc.

There are other cool thoughts in this thread that I will respond to when I have more free time. Thanks!

 

[feelyunicorn]

Very glad to hear from some kindred spirits about these issues. Thanks, Nycindie, Feelyunicorn, Cleo, and others.

Regarding labels: I don't think I'm hung up on labels. In fact, I find it a little frustrating when people say (about various things), "Oh, that's just labels."

Thank you.

I use specific labels as a starting point in networking with others who may have similar interests. But those labels are also subject to adjustments and differences in degree.

I avoid online dating services these days, but I still need to communicate my relationship goals effectively.

 

[nycindie]

Oh, Meera, I've been meaning to PM you. I think we are such kindred spirits in our approaches to non-monogamy. Some developments happening for me, would love your opinion - I will write you.