OPP

Evie

Kaitiaki
Hi and welcome AshRod55

It would be easier if you were a little more specific, then we would know what you are wanting to gain from a discussion. Or you could do a search on the term, or even read some recent threads that discuss this.

In general, OPPs or OVPs are only fine if everyone consents, but they also tend to be one of the biggest hurdles to renegotiate when the partner who is actually subject to them brings it up as no longer working for them. If at all possible, it's better to start without one. If that seems too hard, perhaps put a time frame in place so that the P or V who "needs" to be "the one" can do the inner work to get to the point where they no longer see someone else's genitals as a threat. There are some great resources out there for these, and again, a search or read of recent threads will find these.

If you want to get specific, I'm sure our members will be able to more helpful than this general approach.

All the best
Evie
 

AshRod55

New member
Evie,
Thanks for the reply!
My boyfriend of 4 years has been in the swinger lifestyle as a single male for about a decade now. He was open about this with me and i agreed it could continue if we were in a relationship, under the pretense that i would also be included. About 6 months in he decided he didnt feel comfortable with anyone else "having me like that" so we resorted to MFF. Months in and he lied to me multiple times. He has met up with at least 5 woman on his own that i found out about after he lied to me about where he was etc.
Now we are in a position where i have made it very very clear i am to be involved and at least told about his endeavors. We have only had 2 MFFs in the 4 years. I feel sexually frustrated that i havent been able to explore, but hes out there doing whatever he wants.
There was a particular woman i really wanted to be with, he was good friends with her so i told him to talk to her about it. Fast forward a year and a half and i find out they are having sex and have been for a year behind me back. And i found out from love notes i found in our bedroom. He says its nothing but sex. Im mad. She's married and her husband doesnt know. She brings him gifts and love notes all the time, she parks by him every single day at work, draws hearts on his car window. He says its nothing, but i feel threatened, lied to and betrayed. Ive asked her to stop, asked him to ask her too as well and he just says im overreacting. Tells me "this is what you wanted". The things hes done are out of the agreement we made in our relationship, and he doesnt think hes done anything wrong.
Im not allowed to sleep with anyone else.
I will not cheat or betray him, im better than that.
I feel like he has used polyamory and the lifestyle as an excuse. I dont feel like hes in the lifestyle. I feel like it is his lifestyle to just fuck whoever, whenever he wants. And i feel used.
Im out of town and he tells me he is meeting up with this woman, one of our agreements is he wont spend the night. I asked if he was going to and he got mad. He said "You're out of town and im going to have fun fucking with no time constraints". Im so angry. Is there any hope guys? Or am i crazy?
I signed up for this believing poly could be a beautiful thing, that our connection went much deeper than sex and we could understand that and love each other more deeply while being physical with others.
Im sexually not happy and suppressed.
I know its a lot, maybe i sound crazy. Im torn, just looking for some friendly genuine advice.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Thanks for the more info. I'm sorry, this probably isn't what you want to read but it is offered in a friendly manner - I'd give my bff the same advice.

So, you're the one who is subjected to the OPP, it's no longer working for you, if it ever has, and renegotiating with him has gone nowhere.

It doesn't sound like you have an OPP problem, it sounds like you have a insensitive controlling cheating liar problem. He has shown you time and time again who he is. It is probably time to start believing his actions.

Honestly, I'd cut my losses and move on, don't get sucked in by a sunk cost fallacy. You may be great at swinging or poly, or both, but he's not. Go find a better match.
 

Token2

Member
Agree - I'm 'in the lifestyle' and he's being really unethical IMO. What's the point of being open if you're just going to lie and be dishonest.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hello AshRod55,

An OPP is generally not recommended, and in your case, from what you're describing, it's a totally bad idea. Basically what your boyfriend is telling you is that you can't sleep around at all, but he can sleep around as much as he wants. That's hypocritical and unfair on his part. And he does not seem like he is about to change that, so if you stay with him, you will be living with this crooked arrangement for the rest of your life. Think carefully about whether that would be okay with you. Personally I think you should break up with him, but maybe you want to stay with him and hope that he changes. That is your prerogative. I'm sure he has some good points, and some things you and he have in common, and I'm sure you love him very much. So it's no surprise if you don't want to break up with him. Maybe you could give it a time frame, like say you would like him to change by the time a year has passed. If a year goes by and he hasn't changed, then you could consider breaking up with him.

I'm very sorry you're going through this.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 

areuthe1

New member
I have been told many times that I am far to blunt and that I should be more responsive to others feelings.......So please take what I am about to say with a grain of salt. A cheater will always cheat whether they male female or other, you seem intelligent and caring but you are letting yourself be a door mat if you can not be yourself with this person then I suggest being yourself without him again this goes for anyone. It doesn't matter what term a person puts on a thing if it is a lie to keep the other down then it was never right to begin with
 
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AshRod55

New member
I really appreciate your response! He's very good at making me feel like im crazy for being upset and that im "overthinking" and "that i agreed" to it. This is just the validation i needed.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
It can be hard to see where we are. Sometimes it takes another person's POV to see where we are. He is treating you badly. He doesn't get to tell you what you can and can't do. You are your own person with your own right to make choices. He's not your owner, or boss, or father. He's just some guy who enjoys manipulating you. If he's "making you feel crazy," it sounds like he's gaslighting you. Look that term up if you're not familiar with it.

You can either go ahead and start poly dating whomever you want, M, F or in between, and stay with him, or date whomever you want and leave him. He's showing you who he is. Believe him. His actions (and those of his lovers) speak louder than words.
 

PinkPig

Well-known member
Your problem isn't with his affair partner (and to be clear, that's what they are since neither you nor her husband consented to their relationship.) Your problem is with your partner... he is the one that you made agreements with, not the woman he's cheating with. You feel betrayed and disrespected because you were betrayed and disrespected. This is not poly and it's not swinging or any other form of ENM. It's just plain cheating.

I know it is hard to leave, but in this situation, that's the only option that will bring you serenity. Leave, give yourself time to heal, then try poly with an ethical partner, if you want. This is not poly nor swinging. And it's definitely not ethical.
 

Marcus

Well-known member
I feel like it is his lifestyle to just fuck whoever, whenever he wants.

There's certainly nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't sound like he is comfortable expressing this to you.

Breaking agreements is a sign that someone is agreeing to something that they don't actually want. It's pretty clear that he doesn't want this pseudo open MFF relationship with you that he agreed to, and has no intention of living up to the rules as designed.

So, what now? He's demonstrated that he isn't going to be honest with you, he's not going to follow through with what he says he is going to do, and you are unhappy with the way this has turned out. Is it your plan to stick around and keep being hurt? Or is it your plan to move on with your life and look for someone who more closely lines up with what you are looking for?
 

AshRod55

New member
It can be hard to see where we are. Sometimes it takes another person's POV to see where we are. He is treating you badly. He doesn't get to tell you what you can and can't do. You are your own person with your own right to make choices. He's not your owner, or boss, or father. He's just some guy who enjoys manipulating you. If he's "making you feel crazy," it sounds like he's gaslighting you. Look that term up if you're not familiar with it.

You can either go ahead and start poly dating whomever you want, M, F or in between, and stay with him, or date whomever you want and leave him. He's showing you who he is. Believe him. His actions (and those of his lovers) speak louder than words.
Thank you for your response, definitely agree with the gaslighting reference, although i do not feel a victim to my situation because i suppose at this point he has shown me who he is so many times and i just keep looking past it, or hoping for different. Thats my own fault. Hes been consistently dishonest the whole time, i have to open my eyes and face that.. im putting myself in this situation.
 

AshRod55

New member
Your problem isn't with his affair partner (and to be clear, that's what they are since neither you nor her husband consented to their relationship.) Your problem is with your partner... he is the one that you made agreements with, not the woman he's cheating with. You feel betrayed and disrespected because you were betrayed and disrespected. This is not poly and it's not swinging or any other form of ENM. It's just plain cheating.

I know it is hard to leave, but in this situation, that's the only option that will bring you serenity. Leave, give yourself time to heal, then try poly with an ethical partner, if you want. This is not poly nor swinging. And it's definitely not ethical.
Loved your response! You put it just just right, plain and simple!!! I really entered into our relationship hoping for a real poly relationship, looking forward to the experiences and growth that was possible as a couple! Im curious, would you tell the other womans husband? Ive struggled with that choice.
 

AshRod55

New member
There's certainly nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't sound like he is comfortable expressing this to you.

Breaking agreements is a sign that someone is agreeing to something that they don't actually want. It's pretty clear that he doesn't want this pseudo open MFF relationship with you that he agreed to, and has no intention of living up to the rules as designed.

So, what now? He's demonstrated that he isn't going to be honest with you, he's not going to follow through with what he says he is going to do, and you are unhappy with the way this has turned out. Is it your plan to stick around and keep being hurt? Or is it your plan to move on with your life and look for someone who more closely lines up with what you are looking for?
I agree, there is nothing wrong with that. I think he has been dishonest because he knows i wouldnt be ok with the truth and he doesn't want to leave either. So he will just sit in this lying land until i decide to leave. Sucks. Either way im the bad guy. He gets angry when i say im not ok with it, but he says "i agreed to this when i agreed to our open relationship" which is absolutely not what i agreed to. Ive tried to be forgiving, ive tried to be open minded. The other night he told me he was going to go meet up with her, i told him i wasnt comfortable with him staying all night but agreed to him going, he stayed all night. Didnt come home until 630 am. He doesnt give a crap about me or my feelings and is honestly very "in love" with her it seems. I keep seeing this, feeling it, everything, but i am struggling to leave. Thanks for your blunt response, its nice to hear others thoughts on the situation. Although im not looking for someone to tell me what to do, i do feel like I wanted some like minded perspective. I dont have any poly or open friends and im new to all of this.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
He's very good at making me feel like im crazy for being upset and that im "overthinking" and "that i agreed" to it.

Glad you see that he is lying and doing crazymaking behaviors.

I think he has been dishonest because he knows i wouldnt be ok with the truth and he doesn't want to leave either. So he will just sit in this lying land until i decide to leave. Sucks. Either way im the bad guy.

You taking care of YOU is not you being a "bad guy."

I get that it sucks. You care about him still and want him to change his behavior so staying with him is less hurtful. But then he doesn't change his behaviors and being here hurts. But then leaving and breaking up hurts too.

Sometimes when all the choices stink? You have to go with the least stinky choice.

He gets angry when i say im not ok with it, but he says "i agreed to this when i agreed to our open relationship" which is absolutely not what i agreed to.

Rather than circle conversation? Move it forward even if you didn't really agree like he says you did.

You can say "Well, even if I agreed to it in the past? I have changed my mind. I will no longer be doing that. I do not agree now."

Then you stop doing the thing. Some things just end.

My college roomie and I used to have an agreement about doing the dishes. Well, we both graduated and moved out. That agreement came to an end. Neither one of us does dishes in the dorm any more and haven't for decades. It doesn't make anyone "bad" when agreements end.

He doesnt give a crap about me or my feelings and is honestly very "in love" with her it seems. I keep seeing this, feeling it, everything, but i am struggling to leave.

Sometimes one must physically leave first in order for emotional health and mental health to heal. They just won't if you remain in proximity, constantly dealing with wacky. But then when emotional/mental health is poor, it's hard to think out the plan to physically leave. It's like being trapped in a circle thing. If this is the struggle, then I am sorry you are in the circle trap. Maybe reaching out to friends and family might help? Like take a little time away on your own so you can rest for a week or so, and heart/mind can get a time out enough to make the plan? Enough to get moving?

Is the struggle something else? Like having the finances to move out? You may have to employ other strategies in the meanwhile while saving up to move if that is an obstacle.

Although im not looking for someone to tell me what to do, i do feel like I wanted some like minded perspective. I dont have any poly or open friends and im new to all of this.

Open/poly is not magic. Some people do it well and ethically. Some people do not.

I hope hearing from others helps validate to you that you are NOT crazy, and lying, gaslighting, and crazymaking are poor behaviors from the partner.

You deserve to be treated well. You have worth, dignity, and value.

I hope things get better for you. Even if it means making it better yourself by walking away.

Galagirl
 
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Marcus

Well-known member
The other night he told me he was going to go meet up with her, i told him i wasnt comfortable with him staying all night but agreed to him going, he stayed all night.

While I don't agree with putting rules on people like "yes you can go, but no you can't stay all night", there is a bigger issue at play here that I hope you do some introspection about.

He has clearly demonstrated that he doesn't care about your rules, and has repeatedly established that he will disregard them as the wind blows him another direction. While this might look like the problem, it actually isn't. The problem is you. You know very well what is going on right in front of you but you continue to take part in this cycle: you state a rule, he breaks the rule, you get bent out of shape, he gaslights you for your feelings... then... you state a rule, he breaks the rule, you get bend out of shape, he gaslights you for your feelings...

You are involved in that cycle and I hope that you do some investigation about what your internal problem is that insists you need to be part of this. The first time he did it you were just learning what he is made of but every time it happens after that, YOU are now part of the problem.

It is important that we learn to set healthy boundaries, and then to show them respect by not allowing people to take a shit on them. When I clearly establish a boundary and someone openly shows absolute disregard for said boundary, an adjustment needs to be made immediately. If I don't make an adjustment then I am volunteering to have some selfish little fucker slap me around at their leisure. It has happened, to be sure, but it is very far from the interpersonal goals I have set for myself.

So my recommendation is that you set better interpersonal goals for yourself, and take the actions necessary move toward those goals. Being a doormat may LOOK like it is healthy effort to be a good girlfriend, it is actually just your taking an active part in an ongoing cycle of disrespecting yourself.
 
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