Paradigm Shift to Polyamory

With all due respect to Manno, as he certainly has free rein over answering your questions, I just wanted to let you know that there is a lot of stuff people have posted that could help you get your questions answered.

Perhaps if you don't find specific answers you might like to start your own thread? I certainly would be willing to give my two cents, as I have been living poly for sometime and have a child, etc.

Have a good read. See you when you have caught up! :)

Back to you, Manno. Sorry for the hijack.
Happy that this experience maybe helping others.

First off... this forum has been immensely helpful for me during this whole thing.

"So, back to Manno... do you have any more prospects? and how do you explain where your wife is to your kid, when she's out with her bf? Also, does she spend the night? One of my concerns is the loneliness while she's gone.
Alice has always gone out by herself. So she is out when she's with Jim, and I don't have to worry about that. She doesn't stay there, but just today I realized that she thought that I was waiting up for her, when I really was just trying to be accessible to my daughter while she was gone. I'm okay with her not coming home, but I wouldn't want it to be an all-the-time thing, if it happened. Occasionally, sure, but really, on a Saturday morning, I'd like her to be there. Were we kidless, I think it wouldn't matter as much.

That, and the fact that I'm an artist and very visual, so I imagine what might be happening, and I get that little jealousy twinge. I want to be there ... in his place ... or at least have someone here with me.

You can't place yourself in her relationship with him, even the imagery. If she's still with you, then that is clue enough that she enjoys her time with you, as well. You wouldn't want her doing the same for you.

I'm a budding painter, so I'd take that energy onto a canvas. You'll appreciate it more, and I bet that artistic spirit is one of the things that your wife finds attractive about you.

I also sometimes wonder about the long-term effects of this situation. What if she ends up loving him more and I'm just part of the daily grind with kids, school, homework, chores, bills, etc.? She'd still love me, but it seems like it would just become kind of ho hum. I want to be the exciting guy! How's this working for you so far?

Look at the first part of your lives. Did you not already become another thing on that list? That changed it. And I'm sure it isn't now.

And yes, I want to be the exciting guy, but I don't have an easy way of doing anything outside of the house with Alice right now, and I want to fix that. That is a problem and I refuse to relent until I've found a solution.

As for other prospects for a relationship: I have an infatuation right now. It is a distant one. But other than that, not really. I'm sure that will change. But I agree with you, a work network that offered some sort of socialization in this level would be nice, but that's not really an option. I already keep my non-work self pretty private. This would more than likely shatter some of my coworkers' minds.
So much to talk about over IPA!

We also have painting to talk about too, as painting is my first love! If I didn't have a mortgage, and it was just me, I would endeavour to be a painter full time. I have a studio that I go to and do my own therapy. I have a few shows a year, if I can, too.

Perhaps I will get back to art therapy, as it is what I have a master's in.

I am so sorry for continuing to hijack! Geez! Okay, I will shut up now.
I paint acrylic on canvas

Mostly interested in character studies, and Katie West is my inspiration. Yummy...

This new infatuation is someone else that I'd like to paint. Perhaps I can maneuver a chance to see her soon.

And being threadjacked at least means people are reading. I just hope my experience is helpful to someone else that goes through this.
more... painting

It's very cool that both of you like to paint. I used to paint a lot, but my actual career is more geared toward the commercial side of things, and sometimes I find I lose focus. I just started back up with actual fine art painting very recently. Actually, all this with my wife prompted it.

I choose to work on wood (think thick veneer) and I use all kinds of media. Spray paint, oils, acrylics, paint pens, India ink, sanders, sandpaper, oops, paint from Home Depot. I don't discriminate. It's creative and fun, but it also gets some of that frustration out. It's not representational at all. I'm kind of a Hefe Weisen man, myself.
Nothing awkward here

It is just an odd water temperature to get used to.

I had a wonderful weekend, though it started a bit troubled. I was hit pretty hard by the news of my friend not feeling good about getting involved with me. As SeventhCrow said, it was bittersweet, and I really did not know how well I would recover from making a leap of faith as I did.

Because of this, I have to admit that I got a little mopey around the house about it, and it made my missus feel a little frustrated with me. However, Alice and I had a wonderful talk in the middle of the night Friday and then enjoyed Saturday, making pizza, tooling around on laptops and we even got out my old bass and I gave her a lesson. (Something we've not done in the 10 years together.) Total WIN.

Yesterday evening, I was invited to go to a party with Alice's boyfriend and so I did. It was a wild-animal-themed party, so that set the mood right. I dressed as a safari hunter, so I thought I was sending a message with my costume. :p Anyway, I let last week go, decided to really enjoy myself, and I did. The night was great.

While I did see the source of my before-mentioned infatuation, I wound up meeting someone else who I sat and talked with for the bulk of the night. I am not going to pine on about her, even though she's really cool, but what I liked was, when I explained how my life functions, she really seemed receptive to it and had plenty of questions for me, to which I even had plenty of answers. I did not hear, "What will a gal like me get out of dating a married man like you?"

I'm hope we get to talk to one another soon, but again, I don't want to jinx myself.
... that brings up another thought I had

You hear: "What's a gal like me gonna get from dating a married guy like you?" I'm just starting up with all this, but I'm already getting that vibe. It seems like this is a much easier/more convenient lifestyle for the females. Guys don't seem to care about the long term as much. But, women I meet are definitely concerned with how this fits in with longer term plans, etc. Granted, our current partners would be more willing to date us if things were turned around, but... I just think there doesn't seem to be that many people out there that want to get in any kind of relationship with a married guy.

On a good note, we went to a party at a club this past Saturday and our waitress actually responded positively to me when I explained our marriage and how it works. She willingly took my info but I didn't end up getting hers. Maybe I made my first "dating" mistake. We'll see... I'm old enough to be her dad, anyway. She probably just thinks I'm an old perv. But it's fun to be able to at least dream about it and not feel the guilt. My wife thinks I'm a kook.
"What's a gal like me gonna get from dating a married guy like you?"

I'm probably going to push a few buttons here, but my intent is to help develop reality-based discussions around this topic.

This is a hell of a good question. I would be prepared to offer something that makes sense. Considering probably 90% of the world practices monogamy of some sort, and has the expectations of mono relationships, a little development in your arguments would be highly advised.

What does a married guy offer to a single gal?
Will she feel comfortable bringing you home to meet her parents?
Are you going to give her the security of a marriage-type relationship, if she wants it?
Will you give her children?
Will you be proud and open about her? Is she free to be with you openly?
Will she have a secretive relationship, similar to an affair, only known to you and your wife?
What, besides sex and occasional dates, are you going to offer her?

Not to sound harsh, but really, for most of the single-female population (especially the younger population) a married guy does apparently have little to offer. And so the debate begins.
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On a good note, we went to a party at a club this past Saturday and our waitress actually responded positively to me when I explained our marriage and how it works. She willingly took my info but I didn't end up getting hers. Maybe I made my first "dating" mistake. We'll see ... I'm old enough to be her dad anyway, she probably just thinks I'm an old perv. But, it's fun to be able to at least dream about it and not feel the guilt. My wife thinks I'm a kook.

Your wife is a very astute person.

You tried to hit on a WAITRESS?

I don't know you and I don't know the waitress, but people who work in restaurants have seen it ALL. The only reason she "willingly" took your info was because in HER mind, her tip depends on being "nice" to the CUSTOMER.

You = Customer.
That was after the tip portion. But I am a big tipper. (I've worked that kind of job in the past, I know.)

Anyway, we were there early because of a private party, so she sat with us for about 45 minutes before the club actually opened. I wasn't just making a random hit. We had some history! Ha
that was after the tip portion.
But I am a big tipper. I've worked that kind of job in the past, I know.
Anyway, we were there early because of a private party, so she sat with us for about 45 minutes before the club actually opened. I wasn't just making a random hit. We had some history! ha

More power to ya, slugger! ;)
The "ha" meant "I'm a joke."

You're right. She just wanted the money.

I'm just giving all this a try for the first time in over 18 years. My wife has her man; I've got nothing, not even a hopeful. But it's OK. Maybe someone will like me some time, maybe they won't.
The "ha" meant, "I'm a joke"
you're right, she just wanted the money. I'm just giving all this a try for the 1st time in over 18 years. My wife has her man, I've got nothing, not even a hopeful. But, it's OK. Maybe someone will like me sometime, maybe they won't.

Hey, who am I to rain on your parade!

The more lines you put out, the more likely you are to catch a fish (or someone's old shoe)!
So tonight...

I'm meeting with Sally tonight, Ms. "What is a gal like me going to get out of dating a married man like you?" This the first time that I'll be interacting with her since things went cold, and I'm not certain how it's gonna go down.

This is an odd one. I didn't figure I'd get so worked up about this tonight, but here I am, with things to take care of tonight, and she wants to meet for a moment. I have to admit I'm a little confused, but then again, she might simply be dropping by to pick up something and be on her way, and then I'm just making a big deal out of nothing.

The truth is, while I have no strong feelings against her, as Alice pointed out when we talked about this tonight, Sally pulled the "chicken switch" on me, as in, she was all fine and dandy when I propositioned her, as she was caught up in the moment, the attraction, and the flirtation, but she soon realized something wasn't right and told me she doesn't think she could become involved with me.

I know I'd like to still hang out with her, which might just be what we're doing tonight. I guess I'm wondering what will come of that, now that we've openly knocked out a lot of barriers, and now are just friends. I'm still attracted to her physically, which is why I didn't pursue a platonic relationship with her in the first place, and now that's exactly what this might have become.

On another note, I am really excited about the girl I met this weekend, but she's going to be busy all this week and weekend. We've made tentative plans for next week, and I honestly want to just want to fast forward to that time to see how that date unravels. Very fun and very receptive to my perspective. We corresponded briefly today.

Damn you, patience!
Okay, so it went well.


Platonic relationship with Sally. Lots of good talking. I learned that she is pursing a monogamous relationship with a guy she was considering breaking up with, but reconsidered. She hinted that if that didn't work out that something else might happen with us, and I'm thinking, "So you're gonna string me along?" :confused:

Pinnacle of the night:

Alice texts, then calls me as I'm telling Sally goodbye. Alice asks, "Is it okay for me to come home now?"

I reply, "Yes," and curiously ask, "Well, where are you?"

"In the driveway."
Another nugget of humor from yesterday evening

Alice came home as Sally was walking out the door. After Sal left, we talked for about an hour, which was amazing. We talked about a few issues, especially the ones covered by Sally during my night's conversation.

We came upon a topic that Sal brought up: "What happens when people see me or Alice out on a date?"

Amy then shared how she did see a friend of hers from my daughter's school one night while she was out with Jim. Instead of allowing her friend to skirt around the issue, as was her intention, and simply not go there, Alice brought it up directly and informed her that she does not go to that specific place with me, but instead goes there with Jim only. Apparently it clued her friend in, who simply nodded and smiled and said, "Ah... Keeping it fresh."

A few things are on my mind.

Alice and I were, first-and-foremost, friends for several years before we dated. We talked about the most intricate of things about our relationships with other people. Now, I find myself extremely interested in the success of her emotional tie in her other relationship. I don't want to know any physical details. (Although part of our original idea was that we could share anything about our other relationships, I just don't need to know that anymore.) But then again, Jim is a friend of mine. I hope I'm not butting in all the time.

Sally's visit last night while Alice was out was really fun. I'm feeling now that I could be okay about it being completely platonic. However, I'm really puzzled about it. Sal came over last night to pick up earrings and she wound up staying over three hours. There was nothing physical, but she gave that, "String me along if this doesn't work out" comment. (Not her exact words, but implied.)

I'm not sure how I feel about her, now that she's waffled on me pretty badly. I'm not condemning her actions, but they were pretty rough on my psyche, and I don't know how I can take future touch-and-go, red-light, green-light experiences with her. She is looking for a mate in a monogamous relationship. While she's told me she doesn't want me to be "Mr. Right Now," she is implying instead, "Mr. Later On," all the while telling me this would really not go anywhere.

To complicate matters, she told me when she turned me down that she was hoping to try to mend her current relationship, which was currently in a bad spot. This is where the stringing-along comment was made. (Something to the extent of, well, if I wasn't dating this guy, I probably would not have turned you down, preceded and followed directly with, I don't know if we're going to work out.)

Now, the guy she's seeing has baaaaaaaaad jealousy issues. Yesterday she told me that she'd be seeing him tonight and they were going to see how things worked out. And at 12:30 she texted me, "So, that's over."

While I've been joking about the "string you along" comment, and maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, I'm wondering if she's going to change her mind again about me.

Making matters worse, I am also in a situation that has challenged my patience, and I'm not sure if I'm doing so well with it. I met this amazing woman this weekend, beautiful, intelligent, with a joyous smile. I felt I really hit it off with her. However, there are some complications. She's swamped this week and can't see me for several days, and I can't get her out of my mind.

I haven't dated in a decade, and I especially haven't done it as a married man, so I'm kind of nervous. But I feel like I'm in some sort of a holding pattern. I guess I'm still enjoying the spark of rejuvenation when you meet someone really interesting. But I'm unable to confirm it with her and I don't want to feel like a fool if it is not reciprocated.

I tried texting her today, to start up a conversation, and didn't get a response. But then again, her situation is odd. She's at the end of a waning relationship and is about to be separated. Now that I describe that fear against the situation, it really puts things into perspective and I don't feel so silly about getting my hopes up.

Lastly, getting used to this lifestyle has been a bit taxing. Just writing this down, I feel like I could almost write a book about going through this experience. However, instead I have a looming deadline for a paper that at first I was really impassioned about, but as time has gone on, I'm not as dedicated to anymore. However, I have to finish it. I want to knock it out over the next few days, but I just can't get in the right mindset to do it. (Perhaps I have too much on my mind.)

Fortunately, all of this is a backdrop for the amazing relationship I've got with Alice, that is continuing to grow more amazing day-by-day. Tomorrow we get to sleep in together, and I'm so excited. I hope it rains all morning.