Poly Map

Scott

New member
I actually started talking about Franklin Voisseau's Poly Map in another thread, kind of as an aside, but it seems that that's the part of my post that got people's attention, so I'm creating a thread for it here. Here's Franklin's Poly Map:
nonmonogamy2.5.1.gif


And here's where some people have already commented on it:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=121976

It got some mixed reviews. But I think we shouldn't dump the baby out with the bathwater; if there's some parts that aren't that great or some parts that are missing, I think we could make a better one right here :)
 

Scott

New member
Replying to a message from the thread that I originally brought the Poly Map up in...

I find that chart mildly offensive. Then again, I find many of Franklins' points lacking.

Could you be more specific? Maybe we could make a better chart.

According to this chart anyone 'like me' is wandering around in some abyss, that does not exist.

Well, Franklin's updated the chart more then once; I think it could be said that it's a work in progress...

It also has a vibe of 'If it ain`t poly, it`s crap !'

Why you think that?
 

SourGirl

Member
Most of the answers to your questions, can be found in the reply I have to Phy in the original thread. We were musing. Though I`m sure many will be interested in this being its own thread too. That part ( the chart.) of your response was singled out, much like 99% of posts have one aspect that gets another user`s attention. Itas just how it works.

Might have something to do with the big-ass chart taking up most of my screen too. A little hard to ignore. :)
 

Scott

New member
Most of the answers to your questions, can be found in the reply I have to Phy in the original thread. We were musing.

Ok.

Though I`m sure many will be interested in this being its own thread too. That part ( the chart.) of your response was singled out, much like 99% of posts have one aspect that gets another user`s attention. Itas just how it works.

Might have something to do with the big-ass chart taking up most of my screen too. A little hard to ignore. :)

Lol, true :)
 

Scott

New member
Responding to SourGirl's post in the other thread...

I definitely see the attempt at humour, but maybe I am a little jaded on the amount of people who promote his version like the bible. ;) So I admittedly roll my eyes a bit. :rolleyes:

Laugh :)

It all starts feeling cult-like sometimes, watching people with their one-true-franklin-way.

Let's make our own cult! :D Seriously, how hard could it be to do a few modifications of that chart?

Which really isn`t his fault. He`s just another bloke, with an opinion. He went to the extensive trouble, of creating an in-depth site and opinion,....which I think, is what people find satisfaction in.

Yeah, I think it's a good starting point. I love editing actually. I'm not sure if I'd do a good job editing a graphic, but editing text has always been something I've liked doing (you may notice that a lot of my posts end up edited :p).

Like most things, not all people and all situations can be accounted for. My response is based on the fact that my experiences has led me to realize, most people feel 'pushed' to chose either being poly, or being a swinger. The reality usually is, that most people either land 'in the middle' or find things to be situation specific to the people involved.
I`ve read all the arguments for years, over how we are either like some horny monkey, or some loin-cloth breeder-tribe. :rolleyes: I agree with neither.

Lol :). Your reasoning reminds me of this song:
La Roux - Tigerlily

Environment tends to dictate our reactions. If you cage/corral any animal, ( forced monogamy being our default cage ) and one day show them the door/gate is open,..most are going to run through it, and a few might hold back in fear. Eventually, those that held back, sniff around and make decisions, and those who ran through the gate, ...well many of them realize the pasture wasn`t any greener, it just offered different scenery. Some realize they are monogamous. Some realize they want to hang out around the gate,;) Others feel full-blown poly pride. It`s actualy quite divided.

Makes sense. I started yearning for my friend to be poly (he had a girlfriend, I wanted some -.-), but I truly became poly when I found that I loved 2 sisters and I didn't want to choose between them.

So, seeing that happen with people on a regular basis, I ask myself, how is the chart not flawed ? If he has 'open' labelled for people who fuck, but dont have feelings,.. Then where is the umbrella portion, of non-monogamy ? Shouldn`t the whole thing be enveloped in a large circle that says non-monogamy, at the least ? Then you could at least fit your situation in there:

" All you complicated folks go here-----> X"

You go girl :)! Like the above song says...

"I can see you burning with desire For a kiss
Psychobabble all upon your lips".

I like, laugh :). I admit I'm not really sure what you're saying. It's hard for me to think of a graphic without looking at it, and I'm looking at what you wrote :p. Ideally, we could all get together in real space and make a new map, but alas, we're probably thousands of miles apart or something. Anyway, maybe one day I'll try to edit that map.. yep.. any day now, laugh :).

I`d say it doesn`t because much like his other supposed tongue-n-cheek stuff,...the humour is boiled in his own truths.

The humour is boiled in his own truths.. again.. not sure what you mean by that ;-).

This was not a rant at you Phy, just me babbling about something I have long wondered. :D

OMG, you even said babble, ha ha ha ha :). Sorry.. psychobabble.. babble.. don't mind me.. I'll be going now ;)
 

Scott

New member
So did I, laugh :). Ok, maybe [the chart can be] mildly offensive... I have a feeling that I might not see this so much because I'm a guy. But we could make our own chart.

I`m looking forward to this explanation. :)

I sense a trap :cool: Honestly, I'm not sure.. like I said, it was a feeling. Feel free to come up with theories though ;-).
 

Phy

Member
Ok, as you want to modify the chart. When I first saw it, I naturally searched for the spot I would feel most comfortable being located. And there was no cross-mark. It should be in the Poly/Mono Relationships overlapping with Polyamorous Relationships. I am not that great with texts, but something like:

"I don't care how many my wife loves as long as she still loves me. Btw, did I introduce her boyfriend to you? Great guy!"

Edit: Only for the positive side of things obviously :rolleyes: one could portrait the common strugle as well.
 

redpepper

New member
If your are referring to another thread could you please give a link so that people know which thread you are talking about? Thanks.

I have seen this chart on here somewhere before. Hanged if I can remember the tag for it though.
 

SchrodingersCat

Active member
Ok, as you want to modify the chart. When I first saw it, I naturally searched for the spot I would feel most comfortable being located. And there was no cross-mark. It should be in the Poly/Mono Relationships overlapping with Polyamorous Relationships. I am not that great with texts, but something like:

"I don't care how many my wife loves as long as she still loves me. Btw, did I introduce her boyfriend to you? Great guy!"

Edit: Only for the positive side of things obviously :rolleyes: one could portrait the common strugle as well.

Yep, this is pretty much my issue with it. All of the "polyamorous relationships" block overlaps with something else... And that wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that the entry that's only in "open relationship"'s refers to "it's just sex" so I don't see where my relationship style fits in there. Perhaps that "open relationships" box is meant to include romance, but then why not put the "we can have sex with other people as long as there's no love" into the swinging section.

I assume it intends to label me [[see sig for my opinion on labels]] as polyfidelitous, only I'm not. Because, as I understand it, that refers to closed triads etc.

And then there's all the confusing spots. Like... "I'm a pro domme" being inside the "polyamorous relationships" box. Last time I checked, hiring a professional anything automatically makes it not a romantic relationship. I've actually got a couple friends who are pro dommes, and they have very strict policies about no contact with their clients outside of their sessions/negotiations.

And so on.

Basically, it's an amusing cartoon, it might help clarify things for some people, but I think it's much more likely to muddle things up for most people.
 

Tonberry

New member
I'm not sure how you managed to get his name wrong when it's on the image itself :p
And I would prefer an image that didn't stretch out of my screen. Anyway to have a thumbnail there instead?

Other than that, I like the chart. I find it complete, I'm wondering what's the situation of all the people who feel it doesn't account for them?

Actually, I would say it has too many options. Like, lots of BDSM stuff that I feel doesn't really have much to do with polyamory (BDSM isn't part of your relationship orientation, it's something different altogether). I feel like it's like he had a different section for people who like oral sex more than intercourse, of something. Nothing to do with how many partners you have.

Same thing with con sex, I'm not sure why it matters where you meet your partners, or why a con would be so different from, say, a bar.

I would simplify the chart a whole lot, really. I usually link to it only when I'm trying to show that there are lots of ways to live nonmonogamously, and not just one.
 

nycindie

Active member
Yeah, I do not dig that chart. It's ugly and complicated, and includes things that don't make much sense being there. And his commentary is stupid and redundant ("Need I say more?" No, please do not. Ugh.). It bugs my eyes out; I can't even look at it for more than a few seconds before I am weary of it.

I like this one so much better:

The Varieties of Intimate Relationship Chart
 
Last edited:

Scott

New member

Scott

New member
Ok, I see there's certainly a lot of feedback concerning this Poly Map. Because of this, I decided to email the producer of the chart, telling him about this thread; maybe he'll make some changes to it based upon what's been said here.
 

rory

New member
I't hard to say why I dislike it. I like the one Nycindie brought better. It's clearer, but I'm not sure that's my main reason.

There was a quote from SourGirl
I`d say it doesn`t because much like his other supposed tongue-n-cheek stuff,...the humour is boiled in his own truths.

I think this is the thing. It's a joke, but I feel it makes value-judgements an promotes stereotypes, which I am not sure are helpful...

I'm not sure if changes are needed, though, if the point of it is to be funny and not so much to offer clarity.
 

Scott

New member
I't hard to say why I dislike it. I like the one Nycindie brought better. It's clearer, but I'm not sure that's my main reason.

Wow, just noticed that link Nycindie put up. Cool.

There was a quote from SourGirl
I`d say it doesn`t because much like his other supposed tongue-n-cheek stuff,...the humour is boiled in his own truths.

I think this is the thing. It's a joke, but I feel it makes value-judgements an promotes stereotypes, which I am not sure are helpful...

I'm not sure if changes are needed, though, if the point of it is to be funny and not so much to offer clarity.

I don't see why it can't be funny -and- offer clarity.
 

Scott

New member
Yeah, I do not dig that chart. It's ugly and complicated, and includes things that don't make much sense being there. And teh commentary is stupid and redundant ("Need I say more?" No, please do not. Ugh.). It bugs my eyes out; I can't even look at it for more than a few seconds before I am weary of it.

I like this one so much better:

The Varieties of Intimate Relationship Chart

That certainly looks good.. but it's missing atleast one category; Commercial. This is where there's a direct financial incentive to engage in sexual acts. When in my former poly group, I brought this category up. In the Poly Map, it seems to only refer to escorts, but in point of fact, sex work goes beyond that, also covering porn, of both the hard and soft variety (which, in turn, can now include some conventional movies). This is, ofcourse, a rather controversial subject, and may be a large part of why I had certain trouble in my former group -.-, but I did notice that porn, atleast, has been discussed in this forum before.
 
Last edited:

SourGirl

Member
Other than that, I like the chart. I find it complete, I'm wondering what's the situation of all the people who feel it doesn't account for them?

In my opinion, The whole thing should at least have the default of being in a 'non-monogamy' balloon. When we were swinging, if I said to a swinger I was in an open-relationship,.. I would be told ' Ohh, you want feelings, or some kind of relationship involved ?'
I say to poly people, 'open relationship' and I hear ' Ohhh, you just want to fuck ?'
I think we can all agree that friends with benefits, or having feelings and sexual times with people we care for, but maybe don't engage in a forward-moving relationship with, is not some small niche ? It`s a rather large chunk of dating.

So, some of the definitions are a little broader, and could actually be funnier, if there was some more well-rounded humour.

Why does any of this matter on a supposedly 'funny' chart ?

Because people use his labelling and opinion like its some type of poly-bible to go by. Newbies and even people that know better, tend to stick to his word.

I tried to deny this for a long time, but dating and conversing online, has proven otherwise. If only I made some kind of cash off of every Franklin link someone has sent me, trying to 'correct' me. :D

When you suggest to those people that it`s just an opinion, they seem very confused. 'THIS IS HOW POLY IS DONE DAMMIT !' :p

So my little jaded-self just figures if he is going to have all this in-depth, 'This is how we do it' stuff, that people recommend, then some accountability in both the humour and practical would be nice.
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Wow SG,

I think you beating around the bush so speak ...why not just answer Scott directly.

Scott will eventually learn the truth. Its just a matter of looking back at some your old postings.

The truth is she pissed that the box ( pun intended) that she fits in (again pun intended) is not represented. Let just say it starts with F and rhymes with misting.

Also, I know she's probably too embarrassed to tell you but she is a huge sucker for song lyrics which is why she didn't respond....actually it all kind of embarrassing ....but we love her so what ya going to do.

See SG don't you better now?...I know do :D

I might have to come out of retirement for this.
 

SourGirl

Member
Dear (very deeply), dinged :

The truth is she pissed that the box ( pun intended) that she fits in (again pun intended) is not represented. Let just say it starts with F and rhymes with misting.

I want my box back dammit. I want to practice my ____. Wait, is our rhyme scheme a,b,a,b,c,c, ( in which case, this will all come back on you.) or, are we busting out the Eminem ?

Also, I know she's probably too embarrassed to tell you but she is a huge sucker for song lyrics which is why she didn't respond....actually it all kind of embarrassing ....but we love her so what ya going to do.

True. Though I`m rather fond of that '3-6-9 ...the goose drank wine,..' song. As for embarrassment, ..I`m only embarrassed for you, m'dear. :cool:

See SG don't you better now?...I know do :D
I`ll feel even better when it`s my turn to share. Pssst,..you did say you wanted Scottie to beam you up, or something like that. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.



I might have to come out of retirement for this.

Sorry, thats reserved for Brett Favre. However, if you keep sending random people pics of your junk, we might reinstate you.

Much love - A Random Person.
 

AutumnalTone

New member
Top