Poly networking

[redpepper]

My friend has decided to have a poly sex party. Most of my friends are going and I'm sure will have fun. My definition of poly is one whereby I approach others that I am interested in and they approach me. I like to build loving friendships and see what happens with each of them, or with couples. I have a hard time with thinking of this party as a poly event. I talked to my friend at length about this, and we agreed to respectfully disagree on this. We also noted that we are both on different journeys within our poly experience right now. That could change, of course. We both agreed that life is fluid in these ways.

My friend mentioned the term "poly networking" as a way to explain where she was coming from, and the context behind the event. It was not like mono sex parties, as everyone will be poly and like-minded. I suggested the term poly-swinging, but swinging can be a loaded word for some and she wasn't keen on that term.

Any thoughts on all this? I am stumped again about stupid definitions! Geez, this shit drives me crazy sometimes!

 

[rosevett]

Any thoughts on all this? I am left stumped again about stupid definitions! Geez, this shit drives me crazy sometimes!

Redpepper, you're not alone on this. I'm glad you posted this. I feel very similiar to you on the poly-casual sex aspect of love styles. I even found this at one of the conferences I went to, and was very surprised at my negative feelings/reactions to the casualness of it.

I don't want anyone pointing their finger at me, either, since I am familiar with swinging and am comfortable with its definition and expectations. Possibly that is why some of us can peg these types of events as 'poly-swinging.' I am OK with agreeing to disagree.

 

[GroundedSpirit]

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I have a hard time thinking of this party as a poly event.

Hey RP,

I just think it illustrates the different outlook and priority sex plays in different people's lives, no more, no less. I think you're creating questions in your own mind where there are none (or shouldn't be). It's not comfortable for you. That's totally fine. For whoever participates, it is. That's fine, too.

Again (and again and again) this reflects back to the whole attitude people have about the little word sex.

Think of it this way... If this were just, say, a barbecue party, would it raise the same questions in your mind? Not likely. So now, we're going to barbecue, and then "get down" in the grass, and somehow that's different?

When sexuality finally becomes as accepted as ribs and burgers, these questions (finally) go away, because sexuality is every bit as normal a part of the human experience as eating. Whether your hunger is for one burger, or four, with or without condiments, is based on your own needs.

It's all in the mind, I say.

GS

 

[rosevett]

When sexuality finally becomes as accepted as ribs and burgers, these questions (finally) go away, because sexuality is every bit as normal a part of the human experience as eating. Whether your hunger is for one burger, or four, with or without condiments, is based on your own needs.

I get this concept. I occasionally 'preach' this concept. So why is it that poly-sex parties don't equate in my mind? I think that is the question at hand. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Topic for discussion, because it is a mindset.

I'm thinking that if you take a poly-sex party, and a swingers' house party that only close friends have been invited to, that they would look the same to most people. I have been in both worlds. I speak of this from my experience. Maybe that is why, when poly folks involved in a sex party point their fingers at swingers with really close play partners, I tend to shake my head and wonder why we all can't just get along.

Maybe that is why it is so disagreeable to me-- not the fact that it is a poly-sex party, but that some may judge it as better then swinging. LABELS LABELS. I know we need them. I hate them.

My rambling has ended. Perhaps others have better verbiage and insight then I, but this is my point of view.

 

[GroundedSpirit]

I have been in both worlds. I speak of this from my experience . Maybe that is why when poly folks involved in a sex party point their fingers at swingers with really close play partners, I tend to shake my head and wonder why we all can't just get along.

Maybe that is why it is so disagreeable to me-- not the fact that it is a poly-sex party, but that some may judge it as better then swinging. LABELS LABELS. I know we need them. I hate them.

Rosevett,

I totally get your point and I agree. I've raised the point before about the fine line between the terms 'swinging' and 'polyamory' and took the anticipated beating for it. That's okay. People form their oft quoted values and belief systems based on their own personal experience and information they have (chosen) to absorb. That is their truth, by definition.

But this is as good a time as any to express my position, and go wayyyyyyyyy out on a limb by say that I see a lot of pockets of people in various cultures and subcultures that, under the banner of opening their minds, have simply substituted one bucket of dogma for another that they felt better served their desires.

I see a lot of that here on this forum. (No particular individual targeted. If the shoe fits, wear it.)

Now that should get me whipped into good shape!

GS

P.S. RP, you're almost as good at stirring up a bees nest as some other people I know. I do love honey!

 

[redpepper]

Haha! Thanks GS. Glad to be of service.

At least my friend and I were able to end the conversation with mutual respect, understanding for each other and more depth to our relationship.

I think, for me, having slept on it, my initial concern was that the party may have been seen as part of another poly group that offers education. I felt uncomfortable with that. But actually, it wasn't, and apparently that has been rectified and changed on the invite.

I guess I see it as... I could have sex with my co-workers; I could have sex with the regulars at the coffee shop I go to; I could have sex with the people at the gym I go to... But do I want to? Would it suit me? Do I feel safe in that? Is it how I want to relate to them? Those are the questions I ask myself. If I were interested in someone, I would approach it far differently.

The first half of the night is a sex-toy party. I wonder how much people paid attention to the afterwards part. I got an in-detail heads-up on that part beforehand, and others didn't.

It's all being handled respectfully, in terms of people's boundaries, just so you know.

All thoughts... Still working on it in my head.

 

[GroundedSpirit]

I guess I see it as .. I could have sex with my co-workers; I could have sex with the regulars at the coffee shop I go to; I could have sex with the people at the gym I go to. But do I want to?... If I were interested in someone, I would approach it far differently.

Okay, so where is this coffee shop, eh?

You say you'd approach it differently, somehow, with someone you were interested in. <scratches head> You mean someone you felt a potential romantic connection to? The sex that you'd potentially have with the coffee shop regulars would be different than the sex with this other person? You're going to open your heart more during the act somehow? Just trying to figure out what exactly you're saying here.

Love talking to you!

 

[MonoVCPHG]

When sexuality finally becomes as accepted as ribs and burgers, these questions go away. Sexuality is every bit as normal a part of the human experience as eating.

If sexuality ever becomes that normalized for me, please shoot me. I like the pedestal I have placed it on. For me personally, it gives it depth, meaning and purpose. I don't fuck just to fuck, nor do I use it as a bonding agent in relationships, or a recreational pastime. I like the fact that it is something I share very restrictively. But that's just me. And we all know I am one freaky dude.

Peace and love
(But no sex, unless your name is Redpepper.)

 

[redpepper]

Okay, so where is this coffee shop, eh?

You say you'd approach it differently somehow with someone you were "interested" in? <scratches head> You mean someone you felt a potential romantic connection to? The sex you'd potentially have with the coffee shop people would be different somehow than the sex with this other person? You're going to open your heart more during the act somehow? Just trying to figure out what exactly you're saying here...

No, the sex wouldn't be different, or the romantic aspect. It's just that I don't have a need to fuck everyone at the coffee shop just because we hang out together. I feel like this party idea is similar, except that we are all identifying as poly. I don't have a need to fuck my friends just because we talk about poly together and identify as such.

Going to a swingers' event is different for me, in that I don't know anyone. They are just bodies there for the same reason. Some swingers know each other, but in the context of "we know each other in order to have sex with each other." I know my poly friends in order to talk about poly, get to know them as people, and to explore the possibility of moving that relationship further with some.

Maybe my friend is moving that possibility further with the whole group? Maybe they are ready for that, too? Apparently so...

 

[Ariakas]

Going to a swingers' event is different for me, in that I don't know anyone. They are just bodies there for the same reason. Some swingers know each other, but in the context of "we know each other in order to have sex with each other." I know my poly friends in order to talk about poly, get to know them as people, and to explore the possibility of moving that relationship further with some. Maybe my friend is moving that possibility further with the whole group? Maybe they are ready for that too? Apparently so...

So, if swinging is sex without pretense, poly is love without the requirement of sex (but can obviously include it).

What are those people called, who identify as poly, and want to have an environment of people they know, in to have sex with them? If I knew the group, that sounds like an ideal setup to maybe expand your friends. Then again, I am about the pickiest person I know for whom I have sex with. I have never had a random one-off.

I identify closer to poly than I do to swinging, because the randomness and chaos of a swingers' party (never been, only going by descriptions) sounds annoyingly like a keg party. I have been to those, and found I am not capable of random acts of sex.

 

[CielDuMatin]

What are those people called who identify as poly and want to have an environment of people they know to have sex with?

People.

I don't think that swinging and poly are mutually-exclusive - people can have activities that are poly and activities that are swinging, but there are some that practice one and not the other. To me it's like asking what we call people that practice both polyamory and BDSM.... why do we need a new name for them/us?

There are those that seem to have an agenda to blur the lines between the definitions of polyamory and swinging, saying that it excludes people if we don't (or puts up walls) - I don't agree. It's not a black-or-white thing and there are all sorts of (delicious) shades between.

If those that swing have an issue with using that word, maybe it's time to reclaim it and to remove the (possibly perceived) stigma associated with it.

 

[Ariakas]

People. I don't think that swinging and poly are mutually exclusive. People can have activities that are poly and activities that are swinging, but there are some that practice one and not the other. To me, it's like asking what we call people that practice both polyamory and BDSM. Why do we need a new name for them/us?

P-BDSM

 

[LovingRadiance]

If sexuality ever becomes this normalized for me, please shoot me. I like the pedestal I have placed it on. For me personally, it gives it depth, meaning and purpose. I don't fuck just to fuck, nor do I use it as a bonding agent in relationships, or a recreational past time. I like the fact that it is something I share very restrictively. But that's just me.

I must be one freaky dude, too.

Shit, I'm not a dude!

GS, I do see your point. I don't care one whit about a sex party.

I guess the part, for me, is that I don't consider sex=love or love=sex. So I wouldn't call a sex party a multiple-love party. On this note, there was so much argument, discussion, about this differentiation before, and I haven't stopped perusing my own self over it.

I used to sleep around quite a bit. It didn't bother me. I know others who do, and that doesn't bother me, either. The key difference is that we don't call it love. We call it great sex, or so-so sex, or lousy sex, depending on what fits on each occasion. We're cool with anyone having (preferably great) sex with anyone else, as they wish.

Having watched Avatar, I thought the "not people" in that movie had a great concept of love, compared to people. They saw it as being pertinent to an energy source that connected all. Not all "people", all, all animals, people, plants, etc. It was all interconnected.

When I have sex, that interconnection to the energy source that connects all life isn't necessarily there. But when I love, it always is.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I identify closer to poly than I do to swinging, because the randomness and chaos of a swinger party (never been to one, only going by descriptions) sounds annoyingly like a keg party. I have been to those, and found that I am not capable of random acts of sex.

I just have to say that the mental picture you created here was much the way I feel. I can't explain it... Maybe "annoyed" was a good word for my emotion.

 

[LovingRadiance]

There are those that seem to have an agenda to blur the lines between the definitions of polyamory and swinging, saying that it excludes people if we don't (or puts up walls). I don't agree. It's not a black-or-white thing. There are all sorts of (delicious) shades in between.

If those that swing have an issue with using that word, maybe it's time to reclaim it and to remove the (possibly perceived) stigma associated with it.

That's kind of it for me. I think you can be poly and a swinger and into BDSM. I'm poly, and I have a D/s relationship (well, two). I wouldn't say I'm one or the other. I would say I am both. I don't understand what the big deal is of saying, "I'm a polyamorous swinger." I get it. You have (or are open to) sex with and without love, AND you have (or are open to) multiple loves. That's clear as day to me.

 

[Ceoli]

There are those that seem to have an agenda to blur the lines between the definitions of polyamory and swinging, saying that it excludes people if we don't (or puts up walls). I don't agree. It's not a black-or-white thing. There are all sorts of (delicious) shades in between.

It seems to me that the "agenda" you speak of is merely about being inclusive. You said yourself that it isn't a black-or-white thing, yet people still feel the need to regard definitions that are acceptable for themselves as acceptable for everyone, to the exclusion of other perspectives. Perhaps you would see it differently if you found yourself on the outside of that wall that you don't see.

 

[sisterinlove]

Poly-swinger-etcetc

It seems to me that what all this amounts to is acceptance of "each to their own" and respect of the views and comfort levels of those around us.

One might be poly and like to get their butt whupped (or vice versa) or one might be poly and like to experience/experiment with casual sex or one might be poly and prefer only missionary, in the dark, don't look at me sex or be poly and completely platonic about it (and anything in between).

Labels can give us definition and a sense of belonging, but labels can also hem us in and keep us from expressing ourselves to our fullest. They can make us question who we are and whether or not we are worthy as individuals. It is all a matter of perspective. Many people here found the label "polyamory" and thought "Oh thank (your choice of higher power). I am not alone/I am not weird/I am not a bad person. There are others like me," and grabbed onto that label for all they were worth to stabilize themselves in an often unstable world, not realizing that that label means different things to different people. Some view it as the strict definition, others view it as larger and more flexible. And in having our own view of the label, we can be confused/upset/offended/disturbed/shaken/frightened by another's wildly different view.

Perhaps, for me, the best perspective to have is that a label can help to explain (not define) a portion of who I am so that others can understand. There is no one label that can truly explain the whole of an individual and their situation, except perhaps "complicated." So when someone comes along and gives a different view or invites me to something that does not comfortably fit my own view of that label, I can just smile and shake my head and say "Not really my thing, but thanks for thinking of me." No judgement, no distaste, and something new to ponder so that I can understand myself a little better.

Anyway, just my two cents. Y'all can take it, leave it, or juggle it in your mind and see where the thoughts fall.

 

[redpepper]

Thanks sister. I wish I could be so nonchalant about it all. Getting there... Working on it... You are obviously more advanced in your thoughts on it than I. I'm just confused at this point but understand your stance.

 

[redpepper]

I know my poly friends in order to talk about poly, get to know them as people and explore the possibility of moving that relationship further with some. Maybe my friend is moving that possibility further with the whole group? Maybe they are ready for that too? Apparently so...

I wanted to expand on this statement I made... I see my poly friends at the moment to be friends like the ones I have made on here. We discuss details about our lives, compare who we are with each other, agree and disagree, go a bit further in that we do things together that aren't poly, they are friends... a group of friends... I don't see them in the realm of sex. We talk about sex, but it's more in terms of standing side by side with each other and supporting each other in terms of the relationships that we have outside of our group (sometimes in it) and friendships.

I guess the difference to me is level of involvement maybe? I don't want to be involved that deeply with the group as a whole, but perhaps with individuals within it. There are some people going that I have talked to briefly, or have only just met... it seems rather odd to then engage them sexually when we were just hanging out at a potluck and talking about our kids.

Maybe if I had known that eventually it would come down to having sex with them I would of prepared myself differently? Gone to socialize with them in a different frame of mind perhaps? What will happen after? Will I feel like I am not apart of the group because they have reached a level of depth that I was not involved in (to me sex with those I know and care about can go no other way than deepen my connection to them)? Will I feel comfortable hanging out with them? Will I witness the downfall of our group or will it splinter? I have a lot of questions that make me anxious...

 

[MonoVCPHG]

I guess for me it comes down to recognizing that this is not about the whole group. Big groups generally consist of many smaller groups. Like communities within cities or high schools where there are jocks, preps, emos etc. They all go to the same school, they all have some interaction and they come together for specific classes at specific times.

I have riding friends. We are separate within a bigger social environment because we ride motorbikes. Therefore we do things that other friends don't. We do however come together at different similar interest times like lunches or coffee room chat.

Educational get togethers and social events with our poly friends are open to everyone but not everyone goes because they are not interested. The concept of a social network of people who will explore sex together is the same although it is more closed. That does not mean that when they are not having sex they still won't participate in the social gatherings and educational meetings.
Although they are engaging in a different activity I don't see it as being a deeper level. Do I feel like people are worried they won't be accepted because they don't go to poly family events? Nope....I bet they don't either. Is that another level? Sure it is.

Every group of people with similar interests will also contain smaller groups of people with "other" similar interests. Like the people who play Role playing games at our parties. They sometimes break off and do their own thing. We all spend time together at other times.

Will the group splinter because of smaller groups forming? Maybe...but group dynamics are hardly static.

Do I think group sex play will be the defining attribute of my local poly community? Nope..and if it does than live and let live, it won't be my community any more.

The question is is this a matter of wanting to be included in everything...or wanting to be included with the "cool kids".