Restless Heart snydrome:cause or effect?

Your last paragraph asked if I felt bored or entitlement when I fell in love with my wife....correct? The thing that you might be missing here is I signed up for one thing then the rules of the game were being changed. Before long its not the same game anymore. You and yours knew the rules up front ....agreed to the the rules before the game started ....lots different don't you think? "I" want to change the rules now. Self entitlement...maybe ...maybe not?

As a general statement (not commentary on your particular situation), rules change all the time in marriage. Kids would certainly cause a lot of changes in a relationship. People also get sick, really sick sometimes. Jobs are lost, or the conditions around them change (perhaps requiring prolonged separation, or different hours, etc.).

The difference with these changes, I suppose, is that they're all things we can anticipate when giving our vows. Things we can imagine happening and be able to say, "Yeah, we could get through that."

It's not a newly realized poly person's fault that they are changing the rules. There simply is not enough information out there for everyone to be aware of this concept before they're married. Poly people are marrying monos because that's what they're "supposed" to do: marry and settle down. And they don't realize they're not capable of it, because they never knew any alternative.

It's also not a mono partner's fault for being completely unable to accept this change in their partner, because really, how could they even have known such a thing existed before they married?
 
Tp

I realize things change people change....the idea of self entitlement is I've changed and "I" don't want certain aspects of my life to change.....I want the stability and the family things to stay the same "I" just want these other things to change and I'd like to get you on board with it because I don't want to loose all that for this unknown quantity .....and here's how we'll do that ....blah blah blah...its going to be fine ....(see initial conversation)

You and RP and others have an advantage having set things up that way....

Imagine if some guy came home and said...

Hi honey I want to join the circus because I now realize I'm deep down a circus performer ...always have been ....dry cleaning was really my dads business and I want you and the kid to come and join too ....It'll be great... living on the train ...all the travel one end of the country to the other... .no house payment ..no car payments .....kids get to meet all these new people every few days ...kids can play with the animals on the off hours...learn animal care...training ...hell you and the kids could learn an act and be in the show as well ....so what do think ...? Is this going to be great or what ??? What do you mean no? ....Is it a fear heights or animals??? Well I can see your a little resistant to this here's how we'll do this ....Blah blah blah...its going to be fine(see above)... maybe you need therapy to find the real reason behind all these negative feelings.
 
DH, if poly is not for you and you didn't want a polyamorous relationship, then you either went along with it anyway because you felt powerless to do otherwise or that voicing your objections would continue to be futile. What are you going to do now? Continue to feel victimized and criticize the whole idea of opening up a marriage OR really work toward having what you want in life? How good are you willing to let your life be?
 
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You and RP and others have an advantage having set things up that way....

Well, we were mono for a year and a half, open for 6 months, then became poly when I fell head over heels for my boyfriend. We still had to put in a LOT of work to make this possible. And I firmly believe Indigo put in even MORE work than me. And why? What's in it for him?

Just because I was upfront about my needs sooner in my relationship doesn't mean a ton of work didn't need to be done. And it doesn't mean we're just cruising along right now. This is something we all choose and we all choose to actively maintain.

Imagine if some guy came home and said...

Hi honey I want to join the circus because I now realize I'm deep down a circus performer ...always have been ....dry cleaning was really my dads business and I want you and the kid to come and join too ....It'll be great... living on the train ...all the travel one end of the country to the other... .no house payment ..no car payments .....kids get to meet all these new people every few days ...kids can play with the animals on the off hours...learn animal care...training ...hell you and the kids could learn an act and be in the show as well ....so what do think ...? Is this going to be great or what ??? What do you mean no? ....Is it a fear heights or animals??? Well I can see your a little resistant to this here's how we'll do this ....Blah blah blah...its going to be fine(see above)... maybe you need therapy to find the real reason behind all these negative feelings.

Actually, in a few months, Mr. A will be moving a several provinces away, 5 hours from the nearest city for his work. His work that he is very very passionate about. And yes, I think he's a bit selfish and it's not a smart move, but I don't own him. I have voiced my opinion. I'm apologetic that I'm not more supportive of him, and he's apologetic that his passion for his chosen career is detrimental to our relationship. But he's going to do it anyway. So I had to ask myself if it was more important to have MY dream of our relationship, or to have OUR relationship.

I'm working very hard to choose our relationship right now.
 
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Tp

You and RP and others have an advantage having set things up that way....

Imagine if some guy came home and said...

Hi honey I want to join the circus because I now realize I'm deep down a circus performer ...always have been ....dry cleaning was really my dads business and I want you and the kid to come and join too ....It'll be great... living on the train ...all the travel one end of the country to the other... .no house payment ..no car payments .....kids get to meet all these new people every few days ...kids can play with the animals on the off hours...learn animal care...training ...hell you and the kids could learn an act and be in the show as well ....so what do think ...? Is this going to be great or what ??? What do you mean no? ....Is it a fear heights or animals??? Well I can see your a little resistant to this here's how we'll do this ....Blah blah blah...its going to be fine(see above)... maybe you need therapy to find the real reason behind all these negative feelings.

I suppose my issue with some of your posts, which is why I posted on this thread, is because of what I perceive as (and nycindie just noted) an attack on poly as being the issue, not your disinterest in it and pain from your own relationship. There's no advantage or disadvantage having it start one way or another. It's all work. One of my last partners decided she was mono after being poly, found someone, married him and is very happy (although, they too have issues). It was hard for us to get to a place where we are now best friends.

We don't own other people. The conversation you sketched out of above in terms of how it would play out in your home is one of the reasons I'm marriage-resistant, but not commitment-resistant. There's a sense of ownership and property that comes through. Would I be happy my partner was running away to join the circus? No. Would it hurt? Absolutely. But if I took a step back and it seemed that it would fulfill hir, then I would want to find a way to support hir without losing our bond. Who knows, maybe after awhile, I'd visit the circus and be happy that ze is happy.

Cut your losses, move along, find someone non-poly. But, if you don't examine your own issues -- relationships aren't games with rules we sign up for -- you might have problems again. Relationships are processes, they're brought into being as we relate, and change as we change, have new experiences. And again, because this jumps out at me from your writing -- people shouldn't be seen property no matter what vows, etc. they've agreed to.

Restless heart syndrome? How about for many women in this society, they give up so much of themselves, that after awhile they chafe at the restrictions? IMO, so much comes down to power inequalities. But, that's neither here nor there apropos your questions.
 
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Sorry for the double post, but something else has occurred to me.

I think you might be confusing "starting out non-monogamous" with "taking my partner's needs into consideration" in regards to this "advantage" you speak of. Yes, I told Indigo in no uncertain terms that I wanted a non-monogamous relationship when we first started dating, but he wasn't ready. So I waited for him. And every step of the way, his input has been valued and we have worked together.

If I was single and went into new relationships stating upfront that I am poly, but with a piss poor attitude and inability/unwillingness to communicate and work with my partner, chances are good those relationships wouldn't last past the NRE.
 
We sure didn't sign up for a poly marriage, that's for sure! But our journey started when I fell for our neighbor. I never fell OUT of love for my husband, I was not bored or restless or unhappy with him or our life. So the whole thing has been a huge swirl. But we have found a lot of positives in the midst of the negatives.

I'm not sure where your situation lies at this time, D, but I can certainly see the pain your personal experience has brought you. I am sad that you had to go through some ugly stuff. We've faced a lot of that, too, but we are really trying to focus on the positive.

I never have time to expound.... life calling!
 
Rp
I always thought I was very clear what my wife's big offense was .....judgement or lack of....stupidity. For the record once again.
I thought this changed for you somewhere along the line. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not surprise at all that you and others don't see or understand what I was trying to get across because your relationships were based from the beginning on a non monogamous model. So this question or questions don't apply. You have to agree we got here from opposite directions.
I still started somewhere. We all did and we all faced ourselves in the realization that monogamy was not going to work for us.... I cheated before I realized I could actually obtain for myself a life with integrity without cheating and being open and honest. It sounds like your wife attempted to do that also.

As I said before.... this came out of a fire side chat that centered around a male friend of ours who repeatedly had affairs on his wife....which created a considerable amount of damage in his family and others in his life and practice as well. But he really doesn't seem to care enough to stop hurting those people.....
nice, well I hope he learned something when poly was brought up.... sometimes cheaters just don't know there is an option... it sounds like dude doesn't care though. Too bad, what he is doing is incredibly damaging to everyone. Including himself. Self destructive comes to mind for me.

there was a couple doctors present ...narcissism and self entitlement were throw up as possible reasons for such blatant disregard. I'm convinced my wife could have elements of narcissism, boredom, and self entitlement....those discussions we had were centered around what she wanted ...what she needed.....or rather her needs not being met....her being free to choose how to meet those needs .....her not belonging to me as possession .....her relationship with someone else doesn't effect her feelings for me....all very "self ".......centered..... conversations. Lots of sentences that started with I.... I'm not saying that was necessarily bad or wrong more as a fact....the way she chose to make her thoughts be known.
nope, not wrong at all. What was she suppose to do. Shove it down more so others could be happy? Meanwhile wasting her life to make others happy? I'm not saying she didn't make a mistake in how she approached all this. She certainly should of been more careful with her computer, but I doubt that she really knew what the hell she was doing and how to go about becoming healthy. Not many do when it comes to moving from monogamous thinking into poly.... hence this forum.

She is not at fault here from what I know of it. No one is. She sounded desperate, alone, sad, struggling and the lid blew off everything she had been shoving. That isn't narcissistic to me, that is a woman in deep pain. I really don't know as I don't know her and have not heard her story, but that is what I see about her.

I hope that those doctors of yours can see that there are two sides to every story and rise above their medical experience enough to see that there is maybe more going on than a diagnosis. Not everyone has a mental illness.... maybe they need to know more about poly. Did you invite them here?

Your last paragraph asked if I felt bored or entitlement when I fell in love with my wife....correct? The thing that you might be missing here is I signed up for one thing then the rules of the game were being changed. Before long its not the same game anymore. You and yours knew the rules up front ....agreed to the the rules before the game started ....lots different don't you think? "I" want to change the rules now. Self entitlement...maybe ...maybe not?
The rules did change... that is why my wife and I are not married any more and I am married to PN. That is why our lives adjusted to Mono being with us. The rules will change again.

You hear me talking of "boundaries" right.... I purposely avoid the term "rules." Everything changes, everything is fluid. I might not like it, it might not suit me, I might struggle with the result, but on thing is for sure.... change will happen again and again and again... I have become someone that embraces that rather than fights it or assumes my life will sit as is until I die.

I'm sorry this didn't all work out in your favour for you right now. You are very hurt and I get that. Eventually I hope you can see that it just wasn't working and go on to something that does. Something better for all of you. Right now its time to grieve and process. I'm glad you are doing that, but I'm sorry its hard. For what its worth it will likely make you a better man in the end if you decide to use it for positive gain rather than hate and negativity.
 
Having read some posts after your response to mine I have to say that we have all been through some shit. Your shit seems huge to you right now as it does for most people when they are in it... but I doubt there is one person here who can say that they didn't go through HUGE life changes and struggles to get to a place of peace with themselves, their partners and the culture of monogamy that we live in....

What I would ask yourself if I were you is not what went wrong,,,, what details were there to indicate her failing at approaching you with her poly mind set, but what am I going to do now? Where will I and where could I go from here? It seems that poly is not an option for you. So you know that now. After some healing and some self reflection I would think that in knowing that you will be able to say that to perspective partners that poly is not something you want to experience again. What are you going to do to get to that place of peace with poly/BDSM/your wife/the questions you have of us who identify as poly? What are you going to do to get to that place of peace with everything about your experience in order to forgive, understand and move on?
 
TP ,
Thanks for the input.

The quote that you highlighted of mine doesn't say or imply the you and the others haven't done a ton of work ....or that you are just cruising along. And if indigo has struggled the most its easy to see him doing the most work. The why... whats in it for him? ....I'm guessing so he can explore outside relationships as well...get needs met you can't or are unwilling to provide? That felt like a textbook answer. Really I don't know.... he and I have never spoken or chatted ... you must know the answer....because you're worth it ...that's going to be my final answer.

My little circus example was to demonstrate the size and shock of the proposed change and the pressure to convince the wife to get on board. One thing I left out was the husband wasn't in the backyard juggling pins or rings in his spare time for years ...or walking on a wire between the house and some tree. No plate spinning. Hasn't even been to the circus the last couple of years ....but read an article in magazine or a book....saw a story on oprah.
Another thing that's different is that the participation in this deviant lifestyle there is some serious risks attached. The healthy risk ....STD's and pregnancy, shunning of friends and family, problems with kids, risks to professional career which could have a serious financial ramifications. By proxy a partner is asked to take on all these risks.

I think with your example of Mr. A's career move your just scratching at what I'm talking about....Plug indigo into it....who you share a house with...longer history ...pets ...kids one day ....the shock factor will increase.

I didn't marry young. I put it off until I was 34 ....I dated many many women which I viewed as a good screening process.... I know....right now that process is under review ....the last one I should have ask for a complete psych work up.... hindsight 20/20 ... We dated a few years ....she left because I would commit .....4 or 6 months later out the blue she back begging to resume our relationship.....a yr or more goes bye and then I ask for her hand in marriage. She gets the fairytale wedding....the reception cost me just over 50,000 ....my dad and her dad kicked in as well...with the ring ...her dress and the honeymoon my end had to closer to 80.....Man I'd like to have some of that back. I guess what I'm saying is I was in.....all in...I put my money where my mouth was ..... mind, body and soul checkbook.


Tp in your second post you are connecting dots that are just not there. The highlighted comment does NOT say or imply you are not considerate to other partners needs. I'm sure you are very considerate to everyone's needs hence the longevity and happiness you all have. The point you make about attitude is a very good one .....I would add the personalities could be contributing factor as well.


Chimera,

On your earlier post you thought I might be afraid of losing her. NO not at all. Early experiences in my life have taught me to fear very little.

If the situation isn't relevant to you and you arrived at a poly relationship out of a mutual understanding how can you feel attacked or " the poly institution" is under attack. So what your saying is you've never heard statement like the ones I've said. I cant fucking wait to read something similar to what I wrote in a week or two ....and then see how you and the others react.....what comments or advice will be proffered.

There no advantage or disadvantage on start up. Really ....That's just ridiculous. In one situation the parties involved are mutually in agreement on how their relationship(s) will look and be. In the other situation one partner struggles to catch up or struggles to survive. Because of this struggle and resistance or reluctance ....the need for constant care and reassurance and a higher level of awareness by the initiating partner just seems a given. Constantly explaining or reassuring or just happily swimming off in different directions and dealing with the problems when they come up. Way different in my opinion. I'm Not saying there is no work or no problems ....I know there is ...just saying that quite a few would be eliminated right off the top.

I am dating 2 very lovely women.....they have more or less pursued me. Does this make me poly? Do I have to give back the can huggies and the steak knives? the new mono recruiting gifts......thats why no one get a toaster oven.... it changes every 6 months . The one women just out of the clear blue dropped off a strawberry rhubarb pie.....Wow she really makes a great pie....it was really outstanding.

Carma,
thanks for the input....

So you didn't sign up that way ...do you see an advantage of having it set up that way....its in debate ....see chimera comments.

You said "we" found lots of positives ....what are the positives your husband has found? You said earlier that you acted as a spin doctor some of the time.

I think it great that you try to focus on the positives.....and that's certainly the right attitude ....I'm trying to think what I'd list in that column.

out of time for today D
 
Carma,
thanks for the input....

So you didn't sign up that way ...do you see an advantage of having it set up that way....its in debate ....see chimera comments.

You said "we" found lots of positives ....what are the positives your husband has found? You said earlier that you acted as a spin doctor some of the time.

I think it great that you try to focus on the positives.....and that's certainly the right attitude ....I'm trying to think what I'd list in that column.

D

YES I'd see an advantage to signing up for and open marriage, sure. Not that it would be without its challenges, as in any marriage/relationship, mono OR poly. I never knew anyone personally who had an open marriage. It was never an option presented to me, and I never questioned the conventional institution of marriage. I really appreciate some of the comments made on this thread regarding that -- many of us (especially women) never knew polyamory was an option.

I can't really answer for my husband as to the positives he has found. I would like to think that my personal growth in this endeavor is something he feels was worth the sacrifices he's made. I think he's happy we are still married and that we have kept our family intact. We are both filled with joy when we spend time with our kids playing or sleeping next to us, and we know we are providing them a stable home in spite of our own personal struggles. I would like to think he is proud of himself for trying like hell to understand me, to empathize with me and to offer his forgiveness, compassion and understanding. He has been gracious and loving, and I hope he knows how much that means to me.

He has also become closer to his friend/my BF through this -- they have had to risk trusting each other and it has been more than most male egos can handle. I think they have both been amazed at the way they have overcome their animal instincts in this, the way they have gotten through it with humor and humility and respect.... well, maybe those are positives for ME, to see that, but for what it's worth, my husband has gained my admiration and my utter amazement at the measures he has taken to ensure the survival of our marriage. Love can only thrive in freedom and he has granted me the freedom to fly -- like that saying, "If you love something set it free; if it returns to you, it is yours; if it doesn't, it never was...." Well, I will always be free. I will never belong to anyone. But his courage in letting me go, has captured my heart and made me want to stay. :)
 
Even though it turns out that both my husband and are are poly one of the biggest advantages that I've found is that he's with me because he wants to be on a conscious level. The same applies to me as well, I'm with him because I want to be and chose to be on a daily basis.

In this journey I've also discovered who I am on a much deeper level. I don't just identify as part of a couple anymore. I am an individual who's life brushes up against and intermingles with the lives of others. I feel joy when I'm with my loves but I don't need anyone else to feel happy within myself.

Part of the change into learning about myself happened before we fully opened our marriage. It happened when my husband joined the navy. Everything that I had expected my marriage to be changed then. It took a few years for me to appreciate the lessons that change has brought to me. I wouldn't change that for the world now. I am self sufficient and confident and (although it's not what I desire) comfortable in being alone if needs be.
 
TP ,
Another thing that's different is that the participation in this deviant lifestyle there is some serious risks attached. The healthy risk ....STD's and pregnancy, shunning of friends and family, problems with kids, risks to professional career which could have a serious financial ramifications. By proxy a partner is asked to take on all these risks.

If you feel like maybe people aren't understanding your point as being anything but attacking poly, this paragraph right here illustrates why people are feeling that way. We don't feel that our lifestyle is deviant, any more than gay people feel that their lifestyle is deviant. By using words like deviant in your posts, you are coming across as attacking. If you don't want to come across as attacking, stop using words that are laden with negative meaning. If you are purposefully choosing words like this as little digs at people who chose this lifestyle, stop saying that you are not attacking anyone.
 
If you feel like maybe people aren't understanding your point as being anything but attacking poly, this paragraph right here illustrates why people are feeling that way. We don't feel that our lifestyle is deviant, any more than gay people feel that their lifestyle is deviant. By using words like deviant in your posts, you are coming across as attacking. If you don't want to come across as attacking, stop using words that are laden with negative meaning. If you are purposefully choosing words like this as little digs at people who chose this lifestyle, stop saying that you are not attacking anyone.

Yup.
 
If the situation isn't relevant to you and you arrived at a poly relationship out of a mutual understanding how can you feel attacked or " the poly institution" is under attack. So what your saying is you've never heard statement like the ones I've said. I cant fucking wait to read something similar to what I wrote in a week or two ....and then see how you and the others react.....what comments or advice will be proffered.

There no advantage or disadvantage on start up. Really ....That's just ridiculous. In one situation the parties involved are mutually in agreement on how their relationship(s) will look and be. In the other situation one partner struggles to catch up or struggles to survive. Because of this struggle and resistance or reluctance ....the need for constant care and reassurance and a higher level of awareness by the initiating partner just seems a given. Constantly explaining or reassuring or just happily swimming off in different directions and dealing with the problems when they come up. Way different in my opinion. I'm Not saying there is no work or no problems ....I know there is ...just saying that quite a few would be eliminated right off the top.

I am dating 2 very lovely women.....they have more or less pursued me. Does this make me poly? Do I have to give back the can huggies and the steak knives? the new mono recruiting gifts......thats why no one get a toaster oven.... it changes every 6 months . The one women just out of the clear blue dropped off a strawberry rhubarb pie.....Wow she really makes a great pie....it was really outstanding.

I'm not sure why you're so belligerent and bitter here. Or, what half of these references are supposed to be? Insider jokes here or something? Because whatever kind of digs they're meant to be are lost on me, I just got here and don't know the full story and don't really want considering.

You are attacking polyamory as a (the?) problem at the heart of your situation, which is why people are responding strongly to you (as @hannahfluke just pointed out).

Why is it ridiculous if *my* opinion is that there is no advantage or disadvantage "on start-up"? Only opinions that fit with yours are valid? Why didn't you manage to see what I wrote about a partner deciding to shift from poly to mono? My point is that all relationships are unique to a certain extent and contexts change. Most people think their relationship is going to be a certain way and it almost never plays out to the ideal, even if a person is poly going in to it. Some people make the transition from mono to poly smoothly, some people claim to be poly and it's a struggle the whole time.
 
Not knowing DH's backstory, and just taking this thread at face value, his summary of how he perceived that initial conversation (way back in the beginning of the thread) was a hell of an eye-opener. As many texts about communication relate, there is often a vast gulf between what one person says and what the other hears, and it is VERY useful to see what the other person has heard.

Again, just taking his raw reaction to what he heard (which, again, may be rather different than what was actually said--through no fault of his or hers, but only owing to emotional filtering), makes me more sensitive to what my own (mono) wife might be feeling. Admittedly, our situation is quite different, in that I've been bending over backwards "shoving it down" as RP put it, to give her time to process.

As for how people come to poly, well, I didn't "come to poly." I've more or less always been poly (married almost 20 years, not open at this or any time, and never cheated on my wife), but only recently stopped mistaking the desire for others (both physical and emotional) as a moral or character failing. I'd tried very, very hard NOT to have those feelings, and it simply didn't work. It's how I'm wired. I never once acted on this--I could not betray my wife's trust like that. I had the coming-out conversation first, and it was hugely painful for both of us. I never, ever attempted to lay down a "this is how it's going to be and here's how we're going to do it, hope you like circus life" scenario, and even now, I'm not sure that our marriage will survive. I want us both to be happy, but for now, largely for the sake of our son, I'm not pushing.

I am very, VERY pissed off at society in general, for the mono conditioning. I personally feel like the institution of monogamous marriage is a great big hairy fraud perpetrated upon NRE-laden young people who don't know any better. I mean seriously, who in their right mind lays down an expectation upon another that he or she will be able to satisfy their every need or desire for an entire lifetime? How bloody unfair is THAT? And then when, as most often happens, that expectation proves to have been a fraud, the person who believed it feels like a failure, for having failed to live up to what turned out to be an impossible standard, and there are seriously hurt feelings.

All of that could be avoided so easily, if we didn't grow up having mono marriage, "this is how you're supposed to do it" shoved down our throats from a very early age. Why shouldn't we be able to choose the forms our relationships take? Why shouldn't we expect those forms to change over the course of a lifetime? We've already seen in our own lives, as we transformed from children into adults, how the nature of our relationships changed, and in a very dramatic manner. What kind of stupidity is it that makes us think that change is going to come to a full stop as soon as we put metal bands on our fingers?

Yes, there are people who are mono by nature, and that's OK. There are people who, having examined their relationships, have consciously chosen monogamy. That's GREAT. That's the best way to do it. To fall into it because one simply knows of no alternative, however, is most often a recipe for heartache (I say "most often" owing to the high percentage of failed marriages and the huge percentage of cheating in mono relationships).

The vast majority, I think, of the drama and disruption that surrounds opening previously-mono relationships comes from all of the fairytale stupidity that we're conditioned to believe--ESPECIALLY that part about being able to be everything to each other for a lifetime. I think the lion's share of the hurt when one person tells the other that he or she wants to live poly is the realization that you CAN'T be everything to each other, and the sense of personal failure that gets attached to that. That sense of personal failure does not need to ever have been there, because the fairytale expectation should never have been there. The latter begets the former.

A sensitive, caring poly who values his or her existing relationship will take the time to let his or her partner come to that realization, that the desire for poly IS NOT due to a failure of the mono partner; it's the built-in, unreasonable and impossible-to-meet expectation that each of us will be enough for the other for a lifetime that is the failure. If that realization never happens, you part ways, as amicably as you can, and realize that's what you needed for each other to be truly happy.

I'm sorry if any of that was unclear. It's a burst that came to me earlier this evening, and it probably needs a bunch of rewrites.
 
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The vast majority, I think, of the drama and disruption that surrounds opening previously-mono relationships comes from all of the fairytale stupidity that we're conditioned to believe--ESPECIALLY that part about being able to be everything to each other for a lifetime. I think the lion's share of the hurt when one person tells the other that he or she wants to live poly is the realization that you CAN'T be everything to each other, and the sense of personal failure that gets attached to that. That sense of personal failure does not need to ever have been there, because the fairytale expectation should never have been there. The latter begets the former.

Thanks for your post. I think this is really accurate.
 
had meetings all day so just a quick note....I'll catch up tomorrow.

Wow ...didn't have to wait weeks just a day or so .... Check out RBR's Sos post and Riders blog,and Robertcourage's thread ...sound familiar. Why has'nt anyone asked about the schmuck factor yet....


Hanna and TP

Its been a while since I had sociology or psychology classes but I don't think they have changed the definition of that word. I"m 95% sure used it correctly.....and I was trying show it in context of the shock factor..... the size and scope of the pill I was asked to swallow. Please look it up and let me know if I'm wrong.


Got run again D
 
Actually I'm taking sociology right now, and in the context of sociology, the word deviance definitely applies to polyamorous relationships. However, it does tend to have a very negative connotation in everyday speech, which I think is what people are reacting to.
 
Actually I'm taking sociology right now, and in the context of sociology, the word deviance definitely applies to polyamorous relationships. However, it does tend to have a very negative connotation in everyday speech, which I think is what people are reacting to.

"Alternative" would have sounded much less antagonistic than "deviant". Both words are available to use; neither is particularly obscure or esoteric. I am among those who think it is noteworthy that DH goes out of his way to phrase things such that his posts come across as offensive to the special-interest nature of this forum and its members. I'm not sure whether this is intentional or not, but I suspect it might be so.
 
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