Sexual Ethics

River

Active member

River

Active member
This question is for all who want to answer it -- and isn't directed at anyone in particular.:

Does the thought of two sisters (or brothers) dating the same guy (or gal) ... rub you the wrong way?

Should such a practice be socially discouraged?

If yes, why?
 

NeonKaos

Custodian
It isn't about the person dating the two relatives. It's about... how could one sibling put their mouth where the other sibling's cock or pussy has been (with or without condoms and douches and showers).

That is my glitch.

And there are plenty of other people in the world, it's not like you won't find "enough" love to be had.

To carry it one step further - it wouldn't be OK to simultaneously be involved with the same person one of my parents (or children, which along with siblings I also do not have), and I would by extension not do so with any member of my hhusband's immediate family.

However, I don't think these things should be illegal. I do not think that folks caught up in this type of situation are sick PEOPLE; but I do think it is an unhealthy interpersonal dynamic, in addition to the visceral aversion I described above (and in the other thread). I just cannot find it in myself to be empathetic about this.
 
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Quath

New member
For me, sexual ethics can simply be boiled down to the concept that it is ok for concenting adults to do anything as long as they harm no one. The grey area is in cases where there is hard. In those grey areas, I apply the golden rule (rule of reciprocity) to all involved to decide if it is ethical.

For example, conservatives complain that they are harmed by the knowledge that homosexuals are enganing in sex. However, I find the harm to be more minimal and lacking of internal insight, that I can easily dismiss it. I find this applies to most casesof "harmed by knowledge of existance" claims.

A lot of the time, when I feel a strong emotional response towards a situation, I have to really analysize it and think on the issue. One way I do it is to imagine the extremes. If my opinion changes from one extreem to asnother, I need to understand where I draw the line and why.

As an easy example, how do I feel about underaged sex? My first reaction is say it is wrong because they need an adult mentality to deal with it well. But I remember being young and wanting sex... Am I being unfair because I know it doesn't relate to me anymore? So one thing I do is see where the taboo lines are and why.

One major area is age difference. Society is more ok with a 17 and a 16 year old having sex than a 35 and a 16 year old. Why? We worry about the younger one being manipulated easily since they do not have a well established sexual identity. One example of this is from the Twilight series. My wife hates old men coming on to old women, but in that book a 90 year old guy wants to have a relationship with a young girl in high school. That did not bother my wife, so I asked her, "Why?" She said that the book did a good job of portraying the man as a 17 year old boy. In other words, he did not manipulate her with his 90 years of knowledge.

Incest is a tough one as well. The harm areas is that it could be a continuation of a childhood sexual identity issue and genetic problems with children. As an example where I was ok with incest, I heard about a man and woman getting married and later finding out that they were really siblings. However, they grew up as strangers. So to me, as long as they did not have biological children, it would be ok. In reality, I believe they annulled their marriage.

But that being said, I am not overly judgemental unless I see serious harm. For example, I know some people who have cheated on their spouse and I believe that they should not. However, I feel that is for them to decide what to do. A place where I will probably be judgemental is something like a person keeping a STD hidden from their lover.
 

DestinyWaits

New member
Quath, you are wise in your words and I must say that I tend to agree with your point. It is not for us to judge the actions of others, it is for them to judge for themselves. If we start looking at the actions of others and saying "that's wrong" when it is their belief then we are no better than the zealots who burned the innocents in the Salem witch hunts. We are all entitled to our own opinions and beliefs and so long as no one is being hurt then I say live and let live.
 

MonoVCPHG

New member
Beautiful job Quath!

As long as there is no manipulation through, status, position, age or mentality I see no limits to what people can share sexually. I think we often let our own concept of what we will do cloud our judgement of what others should do. I certainly have in the past...but I am growing :)

I may not be a big fan of free loving but I am a huge fan of loving freely!

Take care everyone..great thread!:D
 

XYZ123

New member
Very nicely put Quath.

My first and foremost feeling on sexuality is that it should do no harm. Of course, "harm" can sometimes be in the eye of the beholder. For example, I am a proponent of legalizing prostitution, as I believe a woman (or man) should have the legal right to make money by selling of themselves and, with legal regulations, there would be less disease and violence attributed to it. However, the idea of married or coupled people going to prostitutes without the knowledge of their partners is morally offensive to me. But then one could make the case these cheats would do it anyway. So it becomes a round and round issue.

I have a gut reaction to the idea of relatives sharing a sexual partner. But that is my reaction, and has no bearing on the actual incidence. It's just that I have three siblings and there is an "ewww" factor I cannot help. My sister has dated one of my exes, years later, and that didn't bother me as much. But at the same time? Ewww. :p

Anything done to children, animals, or done without the full knowledge and consent of all involved and causing harm (including your comment about STDs) I find vile and would happily be at the head of that witch burning committee.
 

Ricavaler

New member
I am very liberal and non-judgemtal when it comes to things of a sexual nature.
Basically, if everyone is and adult, and consenting then more power to them, no matter the activity.
 

Mark1npt

New member
No harm (physical and/or emotional), no foul. Full, informed consent is a must........and everything Quath said, lol.

I guess society craves for a single guiding light, a norm, to hold out before every person as an example. At least it has for 1000's of years, til now. Maybe this generation and this time period will end up being the "Golden Age of Divergence"? We can only hope. Maybe Obama can make it so! lol
 

redpepper

New member
I'm not so sure Mark.
Do you know anything about the rise of "slut culture?"
Basically the rise of young girls rating their worth on their sexuality, as certain men see them.

Consent is key yes, but I fear that consent is given where it shouldn't be because of our cultures norms about sex.... things seem to be getting worse. What is the difference between North Americans and what they do to their youths view of sexuality due to our culture (advertising, music etc.) and what religious countries do to theirs with religious extremism.
I see little difference sometimes.

I'm not saying we need to ban stuff that influences people to think derogatorily about sexuality, but educate people. Talk about it openly and without fear and embarrassment. Hard to do, but so important so that when consent is given it doesn't lead to more disintegration of peoples ego, feelings of self worth and self love.
 

Quath

New member
Do you know anything about the rise of "slut culture?"
Basically the rise of young girls rating their worth on their sexuality, as certain men see them.
I think a lot of this goes hand-in-hand with the "stud culture" where guys are value and are valued by how many women they sleep with. I remember feeling a lot of pressure to lose my virginity when I was in high school. I lost my virginity at 17 and I was so glad then that I would not worry about having to be a potential target of jokes about virgins.

I think the conservatives have really screwed with the abstinance "education." Now, kids who want to choose to have sex until later sound like religious zealots.

I have two girls that are in high school. In middle school, they felt a lot of pressure to be bisexual. Their mother and I were able to talk to them that it is ok to be bi, but they should not be bi out of peer pressure. They liked the idea of being true to themselves.

I think the key components are sexual education and self confidence to get kids to aim for a healthier sexual outlook.
 

Mark1npt

New member
Good points raised by both RP and Quath......my comments were generalized, meant to be aimed toward the adults here and not pointed toward the youth just starting out in the sexual world. They clearly require more teaching, more self respect....maybe more values? Not to be confused with religious zealots but they need something. I am especially appalled at the young women chasing down my 20 and 21 year old sons. It's really rather disgusting, and as most people here know by now, I'm no prude!:D
 

River

Active member
I am especially appalled at the young women chasing down my 20 and 21 year old sons. It's really rather disgusting, and as most people here know by now, I'm no prude!:D

What age are these women? Is it their age which causes this disgust? ... If not, what is the cause?
 

Mark1npt

New member
The "slut culture" is all the rage here in party Florida! Alcohol is widely abused by young kids who don't know how and can't handle it. The 17, 18, 19 year old girls bedding one guy after another every night of the week is pretty yucky. Most times they are so drunk, they don't even know who they're with. The worst part is, it's not just on Fri or Sat nights but every night of the week! Most kids going to college aren't going to finish their degrees down here in 5 or 6 years because of this lifestyle! My sons are great guys, decent looking, respectful, etc.....they are being swarmed by these girls like an apple pie left open on the blanket at a June picnic! Don't get me wrong, I'm all for my sons living large but the behavior of these young women is so way over the edge, it's highly worrisome. I bless myself everyday that I didn't have girls!
 

River

Active member
Ah. I see.

It's all rather complicated, isn't it? It used to be that the popular culture was FAR more on the side of the "don't go there until you're married" (with a bit of talk about not giving milk away for free and requiring the purchase of the cow). So it looks like a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire".

Why are so few teaching their kids that sex is okay, but risky, etc.? The risks can be addressed, etc.... And, anyhow, sex with someone you actually care about is SO much better than being used up by a drunken whore.... Why aren't these "values" being taught?:eek:
 

Mark1npt

New member
I've tried to teach them (some semblance of decency values) to my boys, and for the most part they've listened and behaved better than most while still enjoying life. It's just scary, what's gotten into the young women of today. Could it be they modeled themselves after the aggressive male roles they've been witness to in our society while growing up? This is statistically being borne out in road rage and aggressive driving stats kept by the car insurance companies. Used to be teen boys had the highest death rates and highest insurance coverage, teen women drivers have now pulled up right along side in the stats.
 

redpepper

New member
I could so go off on what 70's feminism has done to young girls today in creating imbalance in our society! I was raised by a feminist mother and took some womens studies courses at uni...I know what it did to me. Nothing bad necessarily, but it can make women driven and determined, over the edge, to one up men. That can back fire when it is turned into selfishness and lack of responsibility for all in our society. Now that I raise a son and look at the feminization of schools etc., I see first hand what has been created (feminization of schools is an interesting search too). I can only imagine what it would of done to my daughter if I had one. I won't go on. This is for another forum! Heh... Get so passionate.

I believe its also called "skank" culture as well as "slut" culture. Worth a google.

This kind of knowledge of what "skank/slut" culture is is what actually tipped me over from swinging and identifying as having an open relationship to polyamory. I was sick of being used to masterbate in. I talked to Mono about this the other day and agreed that its the difference between connecting with someone you love when you have sex as in poly, or connecting with your sexual desire, like masterbating, in swinging etc. I feel truly sorry for anyone who has not connected to their partner when having sex. There is really nothing as rewarding. Sure swinging has its place, but it didn't in my life for the long haul.

I fear that youth (and others) damage themselves by not respecting their partners or themselves by cheating and being a part of things like "skank/slut" culture. Its a kin to raping and piledging in other eras perhaps.
 

Mark1npt

New member
RP you are quite thought provoking.....I'm sure you keep Mono and your hubby on their toes!...I couldn't agree more with your last sentence. I think we will find in the next 20-30 years so many damaged women..... and...... so many confused men. Many will be lost to the raping and pillaging they face now, early in life.

Those that survive will have scars and pain that affect the rest of their lives. I have seen an alarming change in women in the States in the last 40 years and in ever increasing numbers of the female population......I fear alcohol abuse is on the rise in our female population for a variety of reasons. In the 60's it was the occasional lonely bored housewife, the 80's and 90's the busy working soccer mom doing everything for everybody 24 hours a day. The last 10 years, the disillusioned women, divorced, single and bitter and bumping up against glass ceilings. In the future it'll be the young women of today trying to forget their youthful indescretions and just trying to survive.

Whether it's from watching Sex and the City and all the cosmos those girls drank or from watching their own moms and all the cosmos they drank, or maybe watching all those commericals for those "Girls Gone Wild" videos and seeing all those drunk skanks behaving like , well skanks........I think today's women just have a whole set of bad role models to choose from. IMO:(
 
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