sifting through the ashes

FlameKat

New member
So those who read my intro post know I have recently had a court case over parenting and relocation... that is now done and we are waiting on the judgement to be handed down (hopefully sometime before December).

My partner and I didn't really get too deep into the poly conversation as he was hurting deeply from the convo we had had previous to him flying down, and plus all the court stuff, and then we had a minor discussion where he did most of the talking. Essentially from what I can remember, he is ok as long as I am able to say that I do love him, and that i don't love him less, and that I won't leave him.
These are things that I can do quite easily, but to me miss out and fall far short of the discussion we need to have. I am still unable to answer his question of whether I am IN love with his friend, mainly because there is a huge wad of pain in the way he (our friend) reacted to all this and cut us off.

After our talk my partner felt compfortable enough to ask me to marry him, which I accepted (It was very romantic and wonderful - I just have a pragmatic way of writing). I am still unsure of what we are heading into though, and feel as though I should take the engagement off the table until we are really certain of what the other is expecting. Don't mistake me - I love my sweetie so very much, I just don't want to hurt him by not being able to move away from this lifestyle or rather from my love for his friend. I am not interested in pursuing someone else to round me out, i just love two wonderful men and need to incorporate a lifestyle to accomodate that.

I have become very subdued from the person I usually am, and have retreated a lot emotionally from my partner as well. I feel quite shell shocked. I am back in Canada with my partner in about 10 days and am planning a nice cosy mental breakdown followed by deep soulsearching (I leave Xmas Eve so hopefully will be all good by the time I get back to my gorgeous kiddies) and figuring myself out.


The whole time our friend has been in his no contact state he has been changing his facebook and msn pictures in time with my status updates, and i feel he has been trying to communicate. his facebook has disappeared now though. I have been deleted :( his msn is still there though and I am hanging on to that at the moment.
I am in agonies of needing to talk to our friend, it eats me up inside, but I am hanging on tightly to his need to have no contact, though I did break that yesterday to send a very short note to send best wishes to him on his birthday, to which he replied with a thank you. not sure what if anything that means.

To put it shortly - I am confused and needing some direction to steer towards...
 

FlameKat

New member
I forgot to mention a few things in my previous post. Mainly that there is also a very significant bond between all three of us. I would go as far as to say that all three of us are 'anam cara'.

The relationship between my partner and his friend had been steadily weakening (not the right word - but works) since before I had met either of them, however the bond between them was significant Enough that when I met my partner - his friend was a regular feature of his conversation, I even went far enough to describe them as an old married couple (minus any homosexuality :p).
To me it was a package deal - they came together, which is why it was so important to get to know my partner's friend (and for lack of anything better I will call my partner K and his friend T, and if they ever join this site they can give themselves names I will use in future).
I have a deep emotional and spiritual connection with K, and we have from nearly the very start of our friendship, before we became partners. With T it was something that happened over time. We had a deep spiritual connection long before the emotional connection came into play. We were friends first and are now something more... well actually we are now something more just with no communication. The connection is still there and is something that I know in myself will not go away, for me anyway.
Being who I am, I can not ignore it, for me it is like I am no longer able to breathe fully, I am still getting on with life - but not as deeply or happily as I could. I don't know whether to push the issue while I am in Canada this time round (it will be a year before I am able to come back again - hopefully for good). I have a nasty feeling that if I push it will make things worse... but then its the pushing that made T open up to me in the first place. It's my refusal to let him sulk and be moody that took us to the depths we got to, and it was my genuineness and bluntness that he respected so much.

I don't understand at all the reaction he had to K telling him that it was alright if he (T) loved me - after all he fell in love with me too and knows better than anyone how wonderful I am (paraphrasing). From what K tells me - T's reaction was incredulous that K was ok with it - that he should be angry, etc. That as we couldn't do what was right - he would and he would not contact us again. I was extremely hurt he did not say any of this to me - just stopped talking and removed his fb account, removed me from his msn (though i can still see them so i haven't been blocked).

I am struggling to find an answer inside me to the questions that K asked as well. though I did find one of them very unfair - Namely the good old cliff rescue scene... I got very short with him for that one and told him quite bluntly that it was a question that was designed to make him feel better, not one to help the situation.
Then the one I have mentioned before - whether I am IN love with T or 'just love him', not sure entirely what the difference is to him... to me it is a relationship phase, not a defining characteristic of whether it is romantic or not.


Aaaargh - sorry another long post and no specific questions again.

Comments are definitely welcome though, my head is spinning trying to figure this all out, and it definitely doesn't help that K is midflight back to Canada right now, T is incommunicado indefinitely... and no-one else (aside from this forum) know about any of this, and with the legal issues right now - definitely not something I can let out in my small town, even with my closest friends.
 

vodkafan

New member
sounds a bit weak I know but all I can think of to say is good luck and hope your situation gets resolved...let you know somebody is reading.
 

redpepper

New member
It seems to me that some priorities might help. You have a lot going on and the weight of it all sounds to me is to heavy. Why not break it down a bit... you've got a court case, a engagement, a man that you love that is ignoring you and you are falling apart (missed anything?)... what comes first.

Well, the court case won't go away but is done for now, so that can be put aside, the man isn't talking to you, so that can be put aside,,, he isn't going anywhere and obviously needs some time to get a hold of himself emotionally, as do you, so allow that time. You just got engaged... happy times no? Flowers, romance, chocolates, dates, love notes.... rake it in girl! I would be! That only comes around once.

If you are not feeling the love in an engagement and only pain, then that would be a red flag to me... not because of the other guy, but because of your fiancée? If you separate your feelings out into your fiancée and the other man... do you love and want to be with him for the rest of your life? Does it feel sustainable, is it rationally sustainable, do you think that you and he can progress into the future? What can you do to make sure that happens? What have you not laid out on the table in order to have a happy marriage? What has he not laid out?

Lastly, but not the least... is you. You need to take a break (you are, but REALLY allow that) and use this time this other man has given you to re-group and look into yourself I think. Be introspective; what do you want for your future, regardless of those you love? What is it you want to create out of your relationships? Do you want a large chosen family? Do you want more kids? Do you want to be a lone traveler of the globe? Only you know the answers and you are your own primary.

Derby said once and I think she is right, "everyone in your life can leave, but you can't leave yourself" you are number one. That to me, would be where to start first... taking care of myself in whatever way works.
 

ImaginaryIllusion

Administrator
Staff member
Derby said once and I think she is right, "everyone in your life can leave, but you can't leave yourself" you are number one. That to me, would be where to start first... taking care of myself in whatever way works.
Sounds like you got a real smart girl there RP.

And I'd have to agree with her...it's something I see far too often in lovely self-less people...that they go too far taking care of others that they forget to take care of themselves. The rub of course is that eventually they wear down and have nothing left for others because of it. Vicious little catch-22.
 

FlameKat

New member
If you are not feeling the love in an engagement and only pain, then that would be a red flag to me... not because of the other guy, but because of your fiancée? If you separate your feelings out into your fiancée and the other man... do you love and want to be with him for the rest of your life? Does it feel sustainable, is it rationally sustainable, do you think that you and he can progress into the future? What can you do to make sure that happens? What have you not laid out on the table in order to have a happy marriage? What has he not laid out?

Lastly, but not the least... is you. You need to take a break (you are, but REALLY allow that) and use this time this other man has given you to re-group and look into yourself I think. Be introspective; what do you want for your future, regardless of those you love? What is it you want to create out of your relationships? Do you want a large chosen family? Do you want more kids? Do you want to be a lone traveler of the globe? Only you know the answers and you are your own primary.

Derby said once and I think she is right, "everyone in your life can leave, but you can't leave yourself" you are number one. That to me, would be where to start first... taking care of myself in whatever way works.

Reading your posts I have often thought you are a very ... organised lady :p and this proves it to me... lol I knew all of it but just couldn't separate it Thanks btw.

With regards to the engagement - I love my partner deeply and truly, together forever soulmates, what I am having difficulty with is the idea that maybe somehow by not being able to answer his questions, by not knowing exactly what I want I am somehow deceiving him into accepting who I am when I don't know who I am (this even though he knows of my struggles right now).
That if it turns out that this is not just a phase (which I don't think it is), or maybe some over abundance of love welling out of me after being out of my very abusive and restrictive marriage (a possibility but I don't think it is ever gonna stop :p), he is going to be crushed. I don't want to do that to him, add to that how badly I feel that I feel like I have been the nail in the coffin on his relationship with T. It is a struggle to deal with.

Taking care of myself... still figuring that one out. Still learning that I am worth my own effort.... Not much really that I can delve into on that one for the simple reason that I need a hell of a lot of verbal diahhorrea and crying to happen, and I need to do that in a safe place away from my children... they have enough to deal with themselves.
I am working on that one though... and hopefully will accomplish a lot of this while up in Canadia this time round.

I will work on answering those questions you have asked, they are very good... go ahead throw some more at me :p
 

redpepper

New member
Sounds like you got a real smart girl there RP.

And I'd have to agree with her...it's something I see far too often in lovely self-less people...that they go too far taking care of others that they forget to take care of themselves. The rub of course is that eventually they wear down and have nothing left for others because of it. Vicious little catch-22.
She's smart and lovely for sure... we still need to take care of one another though as much as ourselves though. Sometimes that comes from taking care of others first sometimes... it's a strange thing and hard to explain, but by doing things for others, sometimes that takes care of what we need, that feeling of having given. That is also a catch 22.

In the case of your fiancee FlameKat, I think perhaps it might be an idea to let him know you can't answer who you are right now and can't give him the answers he needs... I think you can tell him you will do your best to at a later date (even set a date!) and then when that time comes see if you are ready. You don't have to commit to telling him how you are going to be for the rest of your life, as you don't know that, but you can ask for those questions to be shelved for a time when you are able to cope with answering them.

This is a way of taking care of yourself and giving to yourself at the same time. It kills two birds with one stone as it hopefully will make him feel like there is a time when he can check in with you on where you are at and can feel comfortable in that... you can ask that he give you some extra attention and romance until then as you are just engaged and feeling extra loving (or whatever you need to feel more safe, comfortable and loved).
 

redpepper

New member
All very sensible, except for the driving need inside me to know myself. I want the answers to those questions myself. I want to know where I stand with myself, and what sort of future I am looking at.
Well, in my experience it takes a lot of reading, writing, bouncing it all off people, asking questions, banging my head against a wall, patience, time and allowing it all to manifest... just like any other issue that I struggle with really.

At least you have some resources at your disposal. You aren't alone in this and there are many that have gone before... keep at it... you'll get somewhere for sure.
 

FlameKat

New member
Silver Linings :D

Thanks RP :D

Not too fond of the good old brick wall scenario - but am very familiar with it :p

On the upside (to me) T's facebook profile picture has resumed its ever changing appearance. K doesn't see it as a good thing - says that T is living by proxy essentially. I see it as keeping the channel open?? I suppose - while T figures out what he wants from all this.
Though I have to admit his latest pic has me confused - the cover art to the song "November Rain" by Guns N Roses. Not a happy song - which is to be expected but the lyrics send the most confusing messages - back and forth all over the place... add to that that the video is based on a short story in which the bride committs suicide...
V.Confusing especially as he chooses these things very carefully, so now I am curious about which message in the lyrics he is sending... and hoping that the following song doesn't appear (November Rain was no 2 in a trilogy - the third had Axl (as the main character) committing suicide himself...) very dark and dreary and likely is simply telling me he needs space still *sigh* just wish he would write to us, talk to us would be even better.

And to update on my own thoughts, I have decided to write a letter to both K and T setting out the answers to all the questions - both by K and RP, as they stand in my heart and mind at the moment, and make clear that that is my wish not what has to be... and go from there...also making clear to T that while a response would be appreciated that I don't expect one until he is ready to give one, and that I understand that may be never...

It is this decision which has restored my spirits lately (I am having some bad days medically speaking, pain tablets are only taking the edge off and it looks like I'll have to take sleeping tablets tonight), being able to promise myself honesty to myself, as well as my loved ones has brought me a great deal of peace. Decisions are such freeing things...

Now to figure out the answers :p
 

unusuality

New member
Sounds like you got a real smart girl there RP.

And I'd have to agree with her...it's something I see far too often in lovely self-less people...that they go too far taking care of others that they forget to take care of themselves. The rub of course is that eventually they wear down and have nothing left for others because of it. Vicious little catch-22.

THANK YOU FOR WRITING THAT IMAGINARY!!!! That is one of the TRUEST and most heartfelt quotes I EVER read! And what Redpepper said about taking care of others being a way to take care of yourself simultaneously...so true. Just want to say a balance is MUCH needed FlameKat.

I've seen what being too selfless can to over time - short term AND long term. So take the time and do what it takes to figure it out. You can't do much else until then effectively.
I wish you the best. Thanks everybody cuz i'm learning too!
 

FlameKat

New member
Still figuring it out....

LOL - arrived in Canada last week and have been having a terrible time with jetlag.
That whole looking after myself concept just doesn't sit solidly in my head - I have to look after others in order for me to feel good. That said - I am not a doormat or anything like that - just that in order for me to feel loved I need to be free to love the way I do. And right now that need is not being met, both because of the communication cut off with T and also with me trying to figure out just what I want.

Which I have figured out. But now have to work up the guts to tell K. I am very nervous about doing this -what I wish for is close but not the same at all as his dreams for us - mine include someone else as well as us...
And I have really and truly had enough of the silent treatment from T - I know he is watching my fb, I know he is communicating via his picture changes... so just talk to us already aaargh...

And knowing what I want - doesn't answer the questions of how to achieve what I want, nor does it answer the questions I know K will have... and it sure as hell doesn't make him feel good...

I am also stewing over T's latest picture - it is of a front door with christmas decorations etc all around it - all very welcoming ... my problem is I think it's an invitation for us to contact him ... when he's the one who walked away in the first damn place ...sounds petty I know, but to be frank - I am rather tired of him always getting to play from the safe side of things... and us always being the ones to stick our necks out...

Aaargh, I don't know what to do and if I did I wouldn't know how to go about it :p
 

FlameKat

New member
Derby said once and I think she is right, "everyone in your life can leave, but you can't leave yourself" you are number one. That to me, would be where to start first... taking care of myself in whatever way works.

Reading this again it hit me... I am very very empathic... and the whole way I work is based on others being around... If everyone around me left... I would be lost, I would have no-one to help... (and while I would appreciate the reprieve from feeling others around me... I would retreat into myself and at the same time out into the wonder of nature.... a lovely lovely dream... but not very practical :p) I NEED to have others around me for me to focus and be who I am...

not very coherent but I think I got my point across...
 

FlameKat

New member
So I have gotten my letter written out and ready to send.. after a number of rewrites and hack jobs it ended up at 5 pages long - typed... *sigh* I talk way too much....

Everything in it was important to me to say... so hopefully it comes across the right way... K called me from work just as I was finishing it up... and noticed the stress in my voice, so we are sitting down to talk about it tonight - which will be me showing him the letter... following which I will be sending it to T as well... GULP..

Being authentic and vulnerable sure as hell aint easy... this has to be one of the hardest things I can remember doing... I am absolutely terrified of how this will go. Yeah they both already know how I feel... but this is kinda for me my last straw.. if K can't deal with the reality of it... I really don't know what I'll do... if T doesn't respond but K is okay I'll survive... but if they both go down the gurgler... Its going to be one hell of a rocky road *NOTE: major understatement*

Think happy thoughts for me tonight guys.. I am absolutely petrified
 

FlameKat

New member
Good luck flamekat. :)

I ditched.. :( couldn't do it last night... building myself up to it... I have attached the letter to an email and am going to hit send any second now - the email has instructions to NOT READ AT WORK...

maybe I shouldn't send it it til he is on his way home...

I am such a coward.
 

MonoVCPHG

New member
I ditched.. :( couldn't do it last night... building myself up to it... I have attached the letter to an email and am going to hit send any second now - the email has instructions to NOT READ AT WORK...

maybe I shouldn't send it it til he is on his way home...

I am such a coward.
Well? Did you send it?...inquiring minds need to know:eek:
 

FlameKat

New member
Yeppers!

Yes indeed i did hit the send button...

I forgot that I have his blackberry while I am in Canada though - so he didn't receive it until we were sitting down watching a movie, and he got a phone call from his brother...

I just couldn't bring it up myself...

So cowardly way of him getting the letter - he got it in the end... We had a good long chat, and cleared up some misconceptions and some mishandled communications on my part...
We have slightly different ways of speaking - he is very precise with the words he chooses whereas I am more descriptive and also suffer from Speech Dysphasia - which essentially means there is no direct link from my brain to my mouth...
So... the upshot is... he is feeling angry... I think... we need to talk some more, a lot more. But, he is at a place where he is feeling very angry with his friend, as well as me... also at a place where he doesn't want to mend his relationship with T, and wants me to focus on us and the kids right now...
which is of course very logical and what I need to do...but I still have the question of T in my mind... I need to at least be able to talk to T, and if that is going to hurt K then I am in a quandary... I really don't want to push the issue... but for my own sanity, just the sheer amount of shit I have to get through in the next year let alone all the crap from my past... I need T's support as well as K's... and this is all moot - cos T isn't bloody talking to us.
Anger aside, K is the most amazing man for accepting this (lol - I know there are plenty of other men out there who accept this, just saying K is to me the most amazing :D)... for being able to love me through this - I don't know that right now I could extend the same consideration to him... (Okay I could - but it would bring up so much baggage it would be like moving through superglue)

We hit a spot last night that has really bothered me... it was such a little thing... K turned the light off before I had even noticed he was getting ready for bed... then asked me if I was coming to bed (I was on my laptop)...

This triggered me off... made me feel like I was doing something wrong for sitting on the laptop, made me feel pressured to go to bed, and also triggered off some very bad memories from my marriage... *sigh* opposite sides of the bed... we talked about it a little... got to the point where I was explaining what was wrong (we had been talking back and forth for a little bit trying to figure it out) and I said, and had developed a tone, to not assume I am F*cking around on the laptop... at which point he got up and left the room telling me if I wanted to talk to P (my ex), I could do that...

I shut down due to the fact he had walked out while I was dealing with this stuff... I hate dealing with trigger points...we ended up finishing our talk... but there has been damage done... I am not sure yet how much or exactly what the damage is yet. I think it's possible that he has unresolved stuff from our poly talk (which hasnt been continued yet) that is coming out with this other stuff - just he doesn't want to bring it up or maybe doesn't realise himself...
Turning the light out without checking if I was packing up was so out of character for him... stupid thing to get upset about too...

*confusion is reigning supreme right now*
 

FlameKat

New member
and frankly...

It also has me really steaming that K feels and thinks that a large part of my attraction to T is simply that they are so similar... yes they are but they are also very different...
T has an uncanny knack of being able to find the trigger point I need to deal with next, trigger it and then push through it with me - very painful, but very very good...
K seems to see that as me having a sick need to be hurt... something I picked up in my marriage maybe...

I see it as me needing to heal and someone who doesn't walk away after triggering me off...

aaaaargh... except of course for this last doozy where T isn't talking to either of us *big gosh-darned growlies*
 
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