Some Things Some People Need To Hear

Joreth

New member
It was suggested that I link to my reason for leaving this forum, to my post that got blocked because some feel it needs to be heard, and that I make this post here because personal blogs are less likely to get moderated and blocked, since it's a personal blog.

You can read it at my LJ at http://joreth.livejournal.com/213986.html.

I will be moderating comments because it's my journal, not an open forum, and the post is a rant, not a discussion.
 

Ravenesque

New member
Thank you for posting this Joreth. It is definitely something that needs to be heard. I appreciate and am grateful for you expressing opinions shared by others which would otherwise be squelched.

~Raven~
 

Fidelia

New member
Joreth: Live and be well. Go in peace, and farewell.

ImaginaryIllusion: I'm glad Joreth posted the infraction message you sent her. Thanks for handling the situation with such clarity and directness.
 

SchrodingersCat

Active member
The rant is very good at placing the blame on everyone else for issues that you're having in a public forum. Seems odd that the rest of us aren't having these same issues if there are so many of these terrible sorts of people.

Really reminds me of my mother-in-law who was always miserable and always found ways to blame other people for her emotions and her reactions, and never took ownership for how she felt and behaved.

I've always been amused by people who continually manage to find themselves as the only person with any reason or sense, and manage to blame everyone else for whatever goes wrong. If you're noticing a pattern on every forum with the way every person reacts to you.... maybe just maybe... it's not them?
 

NeonKaos

Custodian
I have said what I needed to say in Joreth's LJ comments section and I guess I made some new enemies today. Yay me.

Now everyone knows my CF-persona name so you's can all search the internetz for all my posts about that.
 

MonoVCPHG

New member
I have said what I needed to say in Joreth's LJ comments section and I guess I made some new enemies today. Yay me.

Now everyone knows my CF-persona name so you's can all search the internetz for all my posts about that.

I haven't even opened up the link so we're good! What's CF stand for?
 
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Ceoli

Guest
The rant is very good at placing the blame on everyone else for issues that you're having in a public forum. Seems odd that the rest of us aren't having these same issues if there are so many of these terrible sorts of people.

Actually, there are several other people I know of who have left this forum for the very reasons Joreth has stated. I also know several people who are active and long time members and organizers of poly communities take one look at this forum and decide not to bother because of over-protective and defensive flavor of the general posts. And given the very low ratio of active members to actual members, it suggests to me that the "welcoming environment" that is sought is a very selective one indeed since there are a relatively few number of people who choose to stick around. There are MANY people who have left this forum because they have felt this to be a hostile environment. And not because of posts such as Joreth's but because it just doesn't seem to be allowed to offend certain active members of this forum without there being a whole hell of a lot of fallout, even if what is considered "offending" is an actual hard truth being called out.

As Joreth said in her post:

People are allowed to be insulting, for as long and as often as they want, as long as it's not overt or uses angry language. People are protected from ever seeing that the people they're insulting are getting angry, because the penalty is for the people who get angry at poor treatment, not the people who are initiating the poor treatment.

I am often disappointed by the culture of this forum, which seems to view disagreements as attacks and seems to hold a high double standard for what is hostile or not. People post things that are ignorant and insulting regularly here, yet more noise and complaints are made about calling out the ignorance and the insults. It seems the only way to "contribute to the community in a positive manner" is to allow the ignorance and assumptions to go unchecked and to allow one's self to be continually insulted without getting angry and addressing it. At least for some members that seems to be the case.

In the moderation letter addressed to Joreth it was said, "As such we'll not abide behavior that creates a hostile atmosphere or makes other members feel unwelcome, belittled or insulted." I might change the phrase "other members" to "certain members", because believe it or not, there have been several people on this forum who have felt belittled and insulted by the dominant culture and have since left (I've often felt insulted and belittled, but I have a high tolerance for hostile environments) because of the environment here that people seem to be working very hard to protect.

If this forum actually had the goal of trying to create a positive friendly community that was inclusive and welcoming, then it would require a lot more self-reflection than it seems people are willing to put in. I would suggest that this is a good opportunity for this forum to actually examine some very real issues here and possibly come out with an even more welcoming inclusive online presence, but honestly I doubt it's something that's going to happen.
 

NeonKaos

Custodian
I haven't even opened up the link so we're good! What's CF stand for?


No, I didn't mean "enemies" as in people from this site. I meant "enemies" as in Joreth's LJ fans/friends.

I suppose I could blog about "oppression" and "censorship" every time I have a post deleted by the mods over at customerssuck.com. But I recognize that they are doing the job they signed up to do... Although the owner of that forum maintains a presence which Olivier does not do here, but that's just a detail and does not change the reality that we as moderators are not here to provide customer service to members of the forum.

"CF" stands for "child-free" and refers to someone who has made a conscious choice to not become a parent. It is a way of making a distinction from "childLESS" which refers to people who want to be parents but for whatever reason do not do so.

I am often disappointed by the culture of this forum, which seems to view disagreements as attacks and seems to hold a high double standard for what is hostile or not.

I would have "squelched" any post that said "fuck you" to someone. And I would handle this situation exactly the same way if I had to do it all over again.

Some things are subjective and one person's passive-aggressive can be another person's dry sense of humor. I don't see what there is to gain by saying that to someone other than to get them to say "fuck you" back.

I've never seen you say "fuck you" to anybody on this forum and you manage quite well. It's this little thing called "self-control". Some people have it, some don't.
 
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MonoVCPHG

New member
Having been on here for almost a year I have seen people come and go. Some left because thier relationships crumbled, others because they did not recieve the approval they were looking for in thier shitty behavior and some because they stood out as disruptive elements in every thread they touched. I also took a short break because of the "bullying" tactics of others. This forum has been a great place for people who communicate with honesty and respect. I don't think that will change and look forward to continued particiaption by mature respectful people.
 
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Ceoli

Guest
I would have "squelched" any post that said "fuck you" to someone. And I would handle this situation exactly the same way if I had to do it all over again.

I'm talking about the general culture and not that specific incident. Whether or not that post was "squelched" or not, or even if the post in question never existed, it wouldn't change my feelings about it.
 

rolypoly

New member
I am often disappointed by the culture of this forum

I have no idea what's going on in here, so I can't say much more. I also feel disappointed on here sometimes. I tried reading through the primary secondary thread because I thought it might relate to some of what I was feeling and seemed to come into a heated argument, so turned away.

If I had 3 times to live this life, in one of them, I'd be a mediator. ;)
 
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Ceoli

Guest
Having been on here for almost a year I have seen people come and go. Some left because thier relationships crumbled, others because they did not recieve the approval they were looking for in thier shitty behavior and some because they stood out as disruptive elements in every thread they touched. I also took a short break because of the "bullying" tactics of others. This forum has been a great place for people who communicate with honesty and respect. I don't think that will change and look forward to continued particiaption by mature respectful people.

Interesting. I know many honest and respectful people who have left this forum because they have felt there is no room for that on this forum.

I suppose some will just choose to make that fact irrelevant so that they can see things the way they want to see things.
 

MonoVCPHG

New member
Interesting. I know many honest and respectful people who have left this forum because they have felt there is no room for that on this forum.

I suppose some will just choose to make that fact irrelevant so that they can see things the way they want to see things.

Yes, it's a shame we lost some good ones.
 
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Ceoli

Guest
Yes, it's a shame we lost some good ones.

And you are the authority about who are the good ones and who aren't?

Interesting.

That is very selective welcoming indeed. I suppose that supports my point and lends more justifications to how I feel about the culture of this forum.
 

MonoVCPHG

New member
And you are the authority about who are the good ones and who aren't?

Interesting.

That is very selective welcoming indeed. I suppose that supports my point and lends more justifications to how I feel about the culture of this forum.

Wow! You're ability to read innacurately into my comments rivals my ability to read into yours LOL!

I never made that claim did I? Feel free to quote me where I did if you wish to make your point valid. Sticking to black and white would serve better in making your response more logical than emotional.
 

Ravenesque

New member
I would have "squelched" any post that said "fuck you" to someone. And I would handle this situation exactly the same way if I had to do it all over again.

Some things are subjective and one person's passive-aggressive can be another person's dry sense of humor. I don't see what there is to gain by saying that to someone other than to get them to say "fuck you" back.

I've never seen you say "fuck you" to anybody on this forum and you manage quite well. It's this little thing called "self-control". Some people have it, some don't.
That leads to a rather circular discussion involving subjectivity.

The term is "double standard." And when it comes to subjectivity, the playing field is the property of the moderators here. This includes the belief that some forms of insulting someone are better than other forms. Snideness, belittling, etc, are fine when done by the right people. "Certain members." Whoever happens to be friendly and share the same belief system with whoever.

I was held to blame for the obnoxious behavior of others simply for stating in one line my experience with *gasp* another forum. When other members actually created threads transparently to attack other groups, no moderation.

There is a glaring lack of certain members being held accountable for their words and posts in contrast to other members.

It is all up for "interpretation" and the "interpretation" of certain people are weighed above others.

I've already experienced the double standard here as have others.

As for expressing anger, there is nothing wrong with it and it is an absurd but often seen cop out stance by others to withdraw from discussion, shut down, or even go the extreme distance of "I'm attacked!" when others express the emotion.

I am very happy I found this online: The Uses of Anger by Audre Lorde.

This applies to situations like this. I already I have Sister Outsider.

I haven't even opened up the link so we're good!

Yes, it's a shame we lost some good ones.

A glimpse of the dominant culture of the forum perhaps. Close the ears to differing views. Don't even look. And qualify the individuals that agree with you as the "good ones." Seems about right. Thank you for illustrating that Mono.

~Raven~
 
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