The Best Life Yet

Reverie

Active member
And then, FML, it was my turn to have fucked up.

I found out unexpectedly that my boss needs me to sub for him for a business trip to a big city in less than two weeks. The trip is during the work week (Wed–Fri).

I'll be traveling and then working till 5:30 the first day, then working till 5:30 the second day, then working and flying out the third day. I'll have a max of maybe twelve hours of waking downtime, roughly six hours per evening, the whole time I'm there.

I erroneously thought that Rider needed at least two weeks before asking a vacation day off of work. I felt certain of it. Even if he hadn't, I honestly thought that taking three days off of work to hang out with me for (at most) twelve waking hours was not something that would make any sense for him to do.

So . . . I asked Dustin, figuring it'd be a simple, no-contest thing on Rider's end. Even though Dustin is burnt out from travel, I figured I should at least offer him the chance, since he often has those same three days of the week off. Maybe he'll feel recovered by then. Maybe he'll wanna go explore while I'm at work, and be excited for the free hotel. I haven't heard his answer yet, but I did let Rider know that I'd asked him.

Rider's feelings were soooooooo hurt. Apparently he can take off of work pretty much whenever as long as no one else on his team has, and as long as it's two days in advance, not two weeks. He was very pissed at me. I told him that if Dustin turns me down, he's more than welcome to come with me. I was genuinely surprised that Rider would choose to spend vacation days that way. When he cooled off, he told me that I was actually right. He wouldn't want to spend days off like that. He just wanted to have first right of refusal.

He accused me of "my first thought" being how to spend more time with Dustin. But really, my first and only thought was just that it'd be fun to bring someone along, and my second thought was that Dustin would be the one who could actually do it. If it had been a weekend trip, I probably would have asked Rider, like I did last time (and, incidentally, I caught hell from Dustin about that that time, too).

Then Rider had an idea: if Dustin turns me down, Rider could maybe work from home as long as it's not more than three days in a month (I thought it was once a week) or possibly from the branch office in that city. Well, damn. I didn't know either of those were possible. (And Rider didn't think of it till about an hour into the conversation, so it's not like they were obvious solutions.) But once he thought of them, he got angry again at the potential missed chance. He told me never to assume anything about his possible work schedule again.

Well, OK, then. I won't. And I told him he could have first dibs on whatever the next trip ends up being. And we're back to being mellow again for the moment.

I think Rider really wants first right of refusal on any trip that comes up in the future, but I don't think I can give that to him. Maybe the next couple, since I've gone more places with Dustin again. But not blanket-wise. Otherwise, how would that be fair to Dustin? To me, it's better to let logic solve it: who would it be easier and more convenient for? Who is likelier to be able to go?

But now that it has happened once with each of them, I see that it is clearly an emotional, not logistical, problem for both of them. Each would rather be offered first and go far out of their way to have the extra time with me. I think I'll have to just balance things a bit so that Rider's not so far behind as to be upset about it, and then express that to both of them: from some future point on, first dibs on my business trips are going to be offered to the person whose schedule makes the most sense with the dates I must go.

It amazes me sometimes how even stuff I thought was going to be no-contest and easy can still be a challenge and minor nightmare. Oh, poly.
 
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Reverie

Active member
Final poly peeve post of the day (I fucking hope):

I arrived home from work to find the house mildly trashed from Rider's overnight with Annie. Empty sake bottles in the kitchen, the water pitcher empty, dishes all up in the sink when the dishwasher is right there, my phone cord unceremoniously dumped on the floor near my side of the bed and another cord in its place, and when I went to find the scissors to open a package (incidentally, it turned out to be the tantra book I'd gotten for us), I found them on Rider's nightstand and (ew-ew-ew) conspicuously LUBEY.

I cleaned up the kitchen, replaced my phone cord, and washed the scissors (and my hands). But I am not happy, y'all. I should never go to touch something in my home that is a common implement and find it surprise-lubey from god-knows-what that other people were doing. Am I overreacting?
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
Final poly peeve post of the day (I fucking hope):

I arrived home from work to find the house mildly trashed from Rider's overnight with Annie. Empty sake bottles in the kitchen, the water pitcher empty, dishes all up in the sink when the dishwasher is right there, my phone cord unceremoniously dumped on the floor near my side of the bed and another cord in its place, and when I went to find the scissors to open a package (incidentally, it turned out to be the tantra book I'd gotten for us), I found them on Rider's nightstand and (ew-ew-ew) conspicuously LUBEY.

I cleaned up the kitchen, replaced my phone cord, and washed the scissors (and my hands). But I am not happy, y'all. I should never go to touch something in my home that is a common implement and find it surprise-lubey from god-knows-what that other people were doing. Am I overreacting?

No, you've expressed that you like there not to be any physical reminders of other partners after a visit from one and he should respect that. However, the recent situation has likely made him feel less amenable to behaving in ways he wouldn't normally behave just to appease you. You've mentioned he isn't the tidiest of people so he maybe wouldn't have cleaned up right away for his own benefit. I think it's more likely a symptom of how things have become.

" and, incidentally, I caught hell from Dustin about that that time, too)."

I found this interesting to read because from what I have read on here, your relationship didn't permit "full poly" when you met Dustin. I do understand that these boundaries have been relaxed throughout this additional relationship but considering this is the case, wasn't it out of line for Dustin to give you "hell" for offering your husband first opportunity to go away on a work trip? That seems like he doesn't know or care that you are coming from what was essentially a semi-closed relationship as per your wishes. To me, this indicates that from the offset, your relationship with Rider were seen as an annoying obstacle (by Dustin if not both of you) rather than a desired and cherished part of your life. But that's the reality of relationships: some are more desirable and more fulfilling than others. Even polyamory isn't enough to make every unviable relationship viable, but, I think acknowledging how this reality has impacted on Rider will aid you in being kind to him at this time.

On a side note, I'd never agree to not discuss issues that are poignant to me with my partners. Even if those issues are to do with my other relationships. I'd advise anyone to never agree to such a boundary/rule. In fact, further to the discussion on here recently about boundaries vs rules and what is acceptable and ethical, I'd put that request in the "bad rule" rather than "good boundary" category. I understand that you feel a platonic poly friend is a reasonable alternative for this sort of support, but I think dictating where someone can source support is problematic to begin with. If I knew one of my partners was sad and they alluded towards things being "rocky" at home and then closed down because they made an agreement not to discuss such issues with their other partner(s) (arguably a major source of emotional support for anyone), I'd be worried there were abusive elements to what was going on.

I attempted to search back to see where this came into play and I saw that it was something that came up when Rider was dating Hannah and you wanted to change the accepted boundaries of other relationships as you were struggling with imbalance. If this was when this was introduced, do you think this could have been a defensive reaction to you feeling dubious about the rationale for your request and not wanting someone to encourage Rider to reconsider it?
 

Reverie

Active member
" and, incidentally, I caught hell from Dustin about that that time, too)."

I found this interesting to read because from what I have read on here, your relationship didn't permit "full poly" when you met Dustin. I do understand that these boundaries have been relaxed throughout this additional relationship but considering this is the case, wasn't it out of line for Dustin to give you "hell" for offering your husband first opportunity to go away on a work trip?

I think maybe I worded it poorly there. What had actually happened (this was back in October, maybe, so the relationship had been fully poly already for a while) was that I had a work conference, and since it was technically commuting distance, I didn't realize I'd had a hotel room. When I got to the conference and discovered my hotel reservation, I mentioned it to Dustin, and he'd offered to come stay with me. I told him no for similar logistics issues—I think he was playing either before or after or both, and I couldn't imagine the timing/time-spent would work out well—and instead had Rider come out to me. Dustin got very upset at that. I'm not sure whether that clarification changes your view.

That seems like he doesn't know or care that you are coming from what was essentially a semi-closed relationship as per your wishes. To me, this indicates that from the offset, your relationship with Rider were seen as an annoying obstacle (by Dustin if not both of you) rather than a desired and cherished part of your life.

Definitely, definitely, I have not ever seen Rider as an obstacle. Dustin . . . he definitely knew from square one, because I reiterated it repeatedly, that all I was available for at the beginning was something NSA. And I think he was actually really open to and cool about it at the outset. He was super curious about poly and about how my relationship with Rider worked. In the early days, we had some long conversations about it, and Dustin asked me stuff like did I think I could ever consider myself married to two people. He set Rider immediately at ease upon their meeting, and things were good in that regard for quite a while.

Over time, however, as our relationship deepened, I do think that his jealousy and desire for more of my time have gotten the better of him, and I do feel pretty certain that he wishes Rider out of the picture these days. It is unfortunate, but I think it's a "change over time" thing rather than a "from the outset" thing. Just as I have also changed over time.


On a side note, I'd never agree to not discuss issues that are poignant to me with my partners. Even if those issues are to do with my other relationships. I'd advise anyone to never agree to such a boundary/rule.

For me, it is an issue of privacy and wanting the business of my dyad to stay our business. I've noticed that when any dyad that we've ever had has started to discuss the problems of another dyad, stuff starts to go weird, and I want as little of that as possible. Rider told me what was probably waaaaaay too much about him+Claire stuff at the beginning, for example. And, yeah, I got a window into their unhealthy dynamic that helped me to understand him, but I know it also was really none of my business. Hearing about her emotional reactions to stuff regarding me, for example, made me first want to reach out to and reassure her, and then eventually made me intensely dislike her.

And then not long after, I found myself seriously oversharing to Jake about stuff that was going on with me and Rider, and I kind of realized that was being unfair with Rider's privacy, telling things that were too private between the two of us. Not long after, Jake suggested that maybe I should be monogamous with him (Jake), and I feel that oversharing my problems with Rider was one thing that helped that to happen. Jake's not normally a person who would try to "cowboy," but I'd put him in this position of hearing about my (ultimately solved) problems, and he'd come to his own conclusion that maybe I'd be happier with him. And that whole thing kind of threw our dynamic sideways, as I could never forget he'd suggested it, and I was determined to stay faithful to (in the sense of not led away from) Rider.

I attempted to search back to see where this came into play and I saw that it was something that came up when Rider was dating Hannah and you wanted to change the accepted boundaries of other relationships as you were struggling with imbalance. If this was when this was introduced, do you think this could have been a defensive reaction to you feeling dubious about the rationale for your request and not wanting someone to encourage Rider to reconsider it?

I think that was maybe one time it came up (and I'd actually forgotten about that), but the first time we'd put it into practice was back in 2015 when Kelly things were going on. I was feeling very insecure and jealous, and I didn't want him discussing it with her because I was trying to build my own friendship with her and wanted to roll out my issues around that with her at my own speed. Incidentally, it worked, and she and I are still great friends despite Rider's time with her being the most jealous I've ever been. She is actually part of my own support network now.

I think dictating where someone can source support is problematic to begin with. If I knew one of my partners was sad and they alluded towards things being "rocky" at home and then closed down because they made an agreement not to discuss such issues with their other partner(s) (arguably a major source of emotional support for anyone), I'd be worried there were abusive elements to what was going on.

Well. I do see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure how to get around the problems that I see with the other side of it. Maybe you can answer the conundrums I see. If partners are discussing the innermost workings of their other relationships with their partners, how does one prevent these:

- ...private details becoming basically public, as the listening partner could also then confide in their other partner, and so on.
- ...the listening partner putting their thumb on the scale in conflict-of-interest situations
- ...people feeling weird knowing their metamours know all their innermost stuff

(I think there's more but Rider just got home so I'm just gonna post it as-is)
 

Tinwen

Active member
Comming from a V where privacy is quite leaky..
If partners are discussing the innermost workings of their other relationships with their partners, how does one prevent these:
- ...private details becoming basically public, as the listening partner could also then confide in their other partner, and so on.
- ...people feeling weird knowing their metamours know all their innermost stuff
You don't/you can't be sure, but that's also true if things are discussed with a friend or publickly online(!). In fact, I think there are many people who would view writing here a worse violation of their privacy than discussing with a (basically decent and trusted) metamour.
Anyway, you have degrees of discussing "innermost workings". Some people will consider their doubts / plans around children / arguments around dishes / .. incredibly private, some will not. IMHO as with many other expectations, concepts of privacy fail and have to be renegotiated bit by bit in poly situations.
Also, consider that not having a rule means that really everything will be discussed. As with other areas, hinges can use their best judgement to respect needs and wishes. Just as I expect a partner will usually try not to wake me up at night unless they really need to, I expect a partner will keep my privacy unless they really need to (and, ah well, to be totally honest, I have to leave some room because I myself suck at keeping things to myself if they really bother me).
- ...the listening partner putting their thumb on the scale in conflict-of-interest situations
You don't, but this is surprisingly a nonissue. First, again, if you're discussing with a friend, you expect them to give advice which is in line with their own agenda, and you have to be careful about how they color the picture anyway. Second, sometimes the listening party will put up boundaries: "Please don't tell me what your arguments were about because I don't want to hear about the worst sides of my metamour. Can't help you with that." (I had to do that). Third, if it's a direct conflict of interest between two metamours, then actually the hinge has to gather both opinions anyway.

All in all, if I was a hinge, I'd likely only keep private the weakest and most vulnerable spots - past trauma, biggest fears and shames, and issues I was specifically asked to keep private because I definitely can't not talk about that half of my inner life that's connected with the other partner.
 

Spork

New member
I admit I'm struggling a little with the "don't talk to metas about our stuff" thing, too...although I really REALLY understand the reasons for it. Triangulation is a bitch. I remember talking to Fire about issues I had with Analyst, and she always wanted to help, but her going and talking to Analyst about what I'd told her did not really help, because a.) He took it differently, coming from her, and the "telephone" effect made it all sound more dramatic than it needed to be, and b.) I felt upset that he wasn't really talking to me, said he didn't have time to really talk to any of us, but then I find out that he IS making time to talk to Fire, just not me. Ouch. And that was in, not a V/hinge sort of a thing, that was with people who were all relating to one another in a Quad! But I struggle bigtime with keeping things from people. I tell those close to me, that discretion is NOT my default setting. If someone really wants something kept secret, they should (I request) actually warn me before they tell me something, so that I can file it in my mind apart from sharable information, and keep in mind my promise. Otherwise, well...there is a fine chance it might just wind up in my blog, and this of all places is NOT private. I mean, it's out there, once the edit window closes, for good. You cannot un-ring this bell. And anyone could find it. People who know you, me, even through what they've heard, could easily see through our little aliases here.

I've actually questioned, sometimes, if it's been wise to share so much in such a permanent, internet-y, kind of a space. Just like sharing nude photos on the internet, like, once it's out there, it's out there. Y'know?
 

breathemusic

Active member
Everyone is going to have their own feels and boundaries around the sharing of information. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for people to share the details of issues with one partner with the others, especially if those partners might interact or are already struggling with jealousy/insecurity issues because I think it just stirs a shit pot and makes things worse. But I do think that in more general terms people need to be able to discuss their lives with their partners and get support from those partners. So saying that there was an argument about the future and having kids vs not... but then not going into every little "he said, she said" of it seems somewhat reasonable to me.

More importantly here to me, is that if parties agreed to a certain level of privacy, then anyone wanting to change that should have spoken up BEFORE violating the agreement.

Granted, shit happens sometimes and in weaker moments where support is needed, sometimes we just talk about things. No one is going to be perfect with that. I think your anger is warranted, but your decision to let it go and realize that it's not something that happens often is also realistic. Though it's worth considering what is a realistic level of privacy to expect given that people usually don't want to have to keep major parts of their lives secret from other partners.
 

Dagferi

Well-known member
I do not share information regarding my guys regarding the other with either one. The only thing I may say is I have somethings on my mind that are not about you. We are ok I am just processing some stuff.

I do not go discussing their relationships with their metamour. But I am a private person and would not appreciate my life aired to others without my permission.
 

Reverie

Active member
Thanks, everyone, for your input.

I'm definitely open to changing my mind on this and, dog knows, I am a totally open book in general. It's not like I'm this super private person (hello, blog!) It's just that I see a very big difference between me sharing my stuff and other people sharing my stuff, and I have a particular uneasiness about my stuff being shared with metamours. Like, I feel like when two people have a problem between each other, and they keep it more or less to themselves or maybe a trusted non-sexual friend, then it is a relationship problem. But if that problem starts to get spread around a network of partners, then it becomes drama. Does that make sense?

And, likewise, I try to give my partners some level of privacy when talking about them to each other about negative stuff, though I will admit that early on, when the Dustin thing was newer than it is now, I did sound off to Rider about him a couple of times, just to get the "what do you think this guy's deal is?" perspective, since Dustin was so new and Rider was so established and trusted.

But what happened there was that Rider actually got pissed on my behalf, which is exactly what I didn't want, since I've found that it's easier to forgive a partner's transgressions than a partner's partner's. I didn't want Rider to be residually pissed about Dustin things when I, myself, had already forgiven Dustin. So now that I'm more established in that relationship and know Dustin better, I tend to do all my sounding off here instead.

I almost liken it to . . . like . . . I have never discussed in detail my relationship problems with my mom. I let her know whether I am generally happy or not, and about the trajectory things are taking, but I've never felt comfortable discussing the specifics with her, at least, not since I stopped living with her as a minor. Because discussing stuff with mom, there's baggage—what if she turns against the person, and I've decided to work stuff out with them? That could be a potentially long-term ick. Metamour relationships come with a different kind of baggage, in my mind, but it's still a tricksy baggage, and potentially long-term.

So, I don't know. I obviously don't want to hinder anyone getting support, or to limit anyone's freedom of expression. But at the same time, I feel like both Rider and I are in a very delicate place in our relationship, and it rubs me the wrong way to have more partners get involved in our "stuff" than just us. I feel like it's super healthy to be able to talk things out to a friend or a therapist or a blog—by all means have a vent and an outside perspective—but the minute metamours get involved, I get uncomfortable about them knowing my/our stuff. Maybe that's just an extension of my discomfort with poly. Maybe it's a monogamy hangover to think that marriage problems should stay within the marriage, and that discussing them with people who have sexual potential or relationships is bad news. But it is how I feel, and it was our agreement . . .
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
I think maybe I worded it poorly there. What had actually happened (this was back in October, maybe, so the relationship had been fully poly already for a while) was that I had a work conference, and since it was technically commuting distance, I didn't realize I'd had a hotel room. When I got to the conference and discovered my hotel reservation, I mentioned it to Dustin, and he'd offered to come stay with me. I told him no for similar logistics issues—I think he was playing either before or after or both, and I couldn't imagine the timing/time-spent would work out well—and instead had Rider come out to me. Dustin got very upset at that. I'm not sure whether that clarification changes your view.



Definitely, definitely, I have not ever seen Rider as an obstacle. Dustin . . . he definitely knew from square one, because I reiterated it repeatedly, that all I was available for at the beginning was something NSA. And I think he was actually really open to and cool about it at the outset. He was super curious about poly and about how my relationship with Rider worked. In the early days, we had some long conversations about it, and Dustin asked me stuff like did I think I could ever consider myself married to two people. He set Rider immediately at ease upon their meeting, and things were good in that regard for quite a while.

Over time, however, as our relationship deepened, I do think that his jealousy and desire for more of my time have gotten the better of him, and I do feel pretty certain that he wishes Rider out of the picture these days. It is unfortunate, but I think it's a "change over time" thing rather than a "from the outset" thing. Just as I have also changed over time.




For me, it is an issue of privacy and wanting the business of my dyad to stay our business. I've noticed that when any dyad that we've ever had has started to discuss the problems of another dyad, stuff starts to go weird, and I want as little of that as possible. Rider told me what was probably waaaaaay too much about him+Claire stuff at the beginning, for example. And, yeah, I got a window into their unhealthy dynamic that helped me to understand him, but I know it also was really none of my business. Hearing about her emotional reactions to stuff regarding me, for example, made me first want to reach out to and reassure her, and then eventually made me intensely dislike her.

And then not long after, I found myself seriously oversharing to Jake about stuff that was going on with me and Rider, and I kind of realized that was being unfair with Rider's privacy, telling things that were too private between the two of us. Not long after, Jake suggested that maybe I should be monogamous with him (Jake), and I feel that oversharing my problems with Rider was one thing that helped that to happen. Jake's not normally a person who would try to "cowboy," but I'd put him in this position of hearing about my (ultimately solved) problems, and he'd come to his own conclusion that maybe I'd be happier with him. And that whole thing kind of threw our dynamic sideways, as I could never forget he'd suggested it, and I was determined to stay faithful to (in the sense of not led away from) Rider.



I think that was maybe one time it came up (and I'd actually forgotten about that), but the first time we'd put it into practice was back in 2015 when Kelly things were going on. I was feeling very insecure and jealous, and I didn't want him discussing it with her because I was trying to build my own friendship with her and wanted to roll out my issues around that with her at my own speed. Incidentally, it worked, and she and I are still great friends despite Rider's time with her being the most jealous I've ever been. She is actually part of my own support network now.



Well. I do see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure how to get around the problems that I see with the other side of it. Maybe you can answer the conundrums I see. If partners are discussing the innermost workings of their other relationships with their partners, how does one prevent these:

- ...private details becoming basically public, as the listening partner could also then confide in their other partner, and so on.
- ...the listening partner putting their thumb on the scale in conflict-of-interest situations
- ...people feeling weird knowing their metamours know all their innermost stuff

(I think there's more but Rider just got home so I'm just gonna post it as-is)

The short answer to that is trust.

To elaborate, it's trusting that your partner wouldn't share details about your life that are unnecessarily personal. So, a metamour A has no need to know that has no need to know why metamour B has issues trusting men, but Hinge partner might want to talk about how B's trust issues with men impact on their relationship(s). Or specific issues that arise.

It's about B trusting that A is a good person selected by a good person (Hinge) and wouldn't use that information against you or try to break up your relationship. Believing that A is mature and introspective enough to have some idea where their opinion is unduly biased and express that accordingly. Additionally, it's about believing that A accepts B's relationship with Hinge and wants it to last as long as they want it to. It's about trusting that Hinge is wise enough to see through anything to the contrary and will use any advice to inform their perspective and not dictate their actions.

It's also about accepting that people do talk. Some more than others. Sometimes I ask/tell a friend about another friend's situation, edited depending on proximity, to gain/offer additional perspectives. I trust that my friends would not share that information maliciously or loosely. Of course there have been times when their judgement of this has differed to mine. I've been guilty of the same in reverse. But it's mostly been a case of "loose" rather than "malicious". It's part of life and it's why I always edit. In this example, A, B and Hinge are friends of mine: three women in an open vee polycule.

It's about trusting that your own actions aren't gossip-worthy. B's issues with trusting men aren't particularly interesting unless B chooses to express it in ways that Hinge's friends/partner(s) perceive as negative for Hinge. So if B started to sabotage Hinge's friendships with men in fear of her committing to one, yes, those close to Hinge might talk badly about that. It might become gossip. It might mean people feel negatively towards B who is hurting their friend/partner. But if it just means that Hinge has to decide whether living with B (knowing she couldn't host male partners in their home) is a good choice, and mild venting at other obstacles it presents, it really isn't interesting to anyone else.

And I guess, it's also about having relationships that work for the people involved.
 

Reverie

Active member
The short answer to that is trust.

Thanks for the elaboration. That all makes a lot of sense. I think, in reading that, that I do have trust issues around a LOT of that stuff. I don't have any relating to Annie in particular—I actually have no fear that she wants to end my relationship with Rider or anything like that—but "people in general" and "other people Rider might want to date," yes, I have general trust issues there.

I also have trust issues around gossip, mostly because of my best friend, Oona, and how much she has told me that my other friends have gossiped about me as my choices in life have rapidly changed through phases over time. She's made me sort of paranoid that anything I do or any step I take in my life is, indeed, gossip-worthy, no matter that I am not out to sabotage anyone else. So I definitely feel to some degree a need to put up a defensive "information shell" around my relationship when it gets rough, because I get exhausted at the idea of people gossiping about me.

Truly, what it comes down to, is that I want to just figure my/our shit out and be left in peace about it. I want it to have the best outcome it can possibly have with the least interference. I don't know what the best way to get that is, though, if it's not some form of information control.
 

Reverie

Active member
Also this latest thread is now making me question the ethics of having my blog. Maybe I'll just be done. I feel like I'm thisclose to both of my relationships ending anyway, for their own reasons, and I'm not planning to ever be poly again.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I want it to have the best outcome it can possibly have with the least interference. I don't know what the best way to get that is, though, if it's not some form of information control.
Well I'm certainly NOT telling you that you should not do information control (I remember that fight we had with Idealist on our first couples counselling session where my stance was basically "You're not gonna speak about anything that was said here to Meta until we have a consensus, understood?!" ;)) , but this sounds like a fear based on some very particular bad experience.
I don't have any issues with people talking about me. Zero. I do have issues around people not liking me but they usually only come up in making decisions about action, not about how much information to put out there. If someone doesn't like how I live my life ... well the most likely scenario is that they'll disappear from it and I'll hardly even notice.
I also don't fear interference unless it's my family we're talking about. No friend or acquaintance of mine has ever tried to influence my processing in an unwanted way.

So this thought about interference... who would interfere? How would they interfere? Where have you encountered that already?

edit: Ooops, maybe we're all just doing unwanted interference now.
 
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I would be super pissed about the sharing. Real and Lady and fox andI have a relatively close network and we only share about big things with the understanding that we limit info to hey I could emo about my other relationship, please try to understand if preoccupied.
I'm sorry you are struggling. It's often hard to find the best way to have an outlet about all the feels. I hope things get better for you. Remember the only guideline is what works for you and your people. We all love different lovers and can only offer advice colored on our lives and experiences. You know next what works in yours
 

SEASONEDpolyAgain

Active member
"Truly, what it comes down to, is that I want to just figure my/our shit out and be left in peace about it. I want it to have the best outcome it can possibly have with the least interference. I don't know what the best way to get that is, though, if it's not some form of information control."

I think you have to remember that you're not the only person in your marriage. Rider is kind of a key member too and a person in his own right. So while you might need minimal "interference" to figure your personal and joint "shit" out, he might need input from someone he can open up to figure out his personal and your joint "shit". And maybe he is a person that finds it easier to open up to someone he is sexually intimate as well as emotionally. So a partner is better than a friend in that respect.
 

Leetah

Member
Both relationships feel near to ending? That sounds like an awful situation. I hope you are doing well.

Leetah
 

Tinwen

Active member
How are you doing, Reverie? Did counselling work out? Did you really decide to let go of your blog after the last discussion?
 

Reverie

Active member
How are you doing, Reverie? Did counselling work out? Did you really decide to let go of your blog after the last discussion?

Hi, Tinwen. I'm doing OK.

Yes, I've pretty much decided to stop writing here. It's actually a transition that makes a lot of sense to me based on a number of factors other than just the privacy concerns that tipped the balance: I was starting to feel like input from others was spinning my internal compass rather than allowing me to find my own gut-feeling north; I was processing so much that I was spending too much time composing my entries; there were nuances arising that I felt like I couldn't really go into so much here, which would have left an incomplete story, etc.

The first counseling appointment is actually on Tuesday, so I am curious to see how things go. I ended up telling Rider at some point that he could talk about whatever with whomever, stemming from something that he said that I felt like, if anything, having ANY KIND of poly person he could open up to would give him an improved perspective, partner or no.

A summary to part with . . .

Rider

Until today, things had been sliding slowly downhill with Rider, culminating in him being really terrible to me Friday night when I returned from being gone on a business trip for days. I flew in around 8, and when Dustin learned that Rider would be at a poly meetup when I got back to town, he offered to make me dinner and then drive me home, where I could wait for Rider to finish with his event.

When Rider came home, he was drunk. I hugged him hello, and he stood there stiffly enduring it, then immediately started in on me about how he knew he wasn't going to get any reunion sex. Within ten minutes of our seeing each other, he had me in tears, criticizing everything from my choice in shirts (he didn't like that I was wearing a sweater Dustin had given me months ago) to the jewelry I was wearing (apparently, two pieces from Dustin and two from Rider were no longer acceptable), to the fact that I'd taken Dustin up on his offer of dinner and a ride (even though Rider had been the one to make himself unavailable to me first).

We ended up arguing until after 2 a.m., even though I was utterly exhausted from my travels and had been barely staying awake to see Rider come home. I kept repeating "let's save it for counseling—I am exhausted" until he finally let me sleep. I was thisclose to Lyfting back to Dustin's to seek refuge, but I was afraid that doing that would end everything then and there.

We spent last night apart (pre-planned), with me at Dustin's and Annie staying over with Rider. When I came home today, Rider was very apologetic, and had flowers, chocolate, and hugs for me. We had a good day. I hope it can stay that way.

Dustin

I'd written Dustin an un-sent letter while he was out of town, the purpose of which was not to break up with him, but to let him know, in writing, of his behaviors that contribute to my unhappiness. My plan was to unspokenly give him a "clean slate" upon his return, once the stress of the holidays was over, but if he caused an issue after that, I would make small tweaks and give him the letter.

To my utter shock but also delight, I have not needed to send it. He's somehow been completely voluntarily flawless since returning home—showing only kindness, drinking only in moderation, defending me to his friends instead of using their remarks as ammunition against me, etc.

When I asked him about it this morning (after giving it weeks of observation and not wanting to inquire or "jinx" before then), he told me that he'd been on the verge of breaking up with me while out of town, but, upon returning to me, he somehow learned to find acceptance of the situation instead, even though he still does struggle sometimes with trust issues and jealousy. It's hard for me to even believe how good things got and how suddenly, but I'll take it.

Me

I've been focusing almost exclusively on self-care and boundary-setting, letting my relationships only fill in whatever spaces are left after that. I've had only one day of drinking since New Year's Eve, and that was in moderation—a couple glasses of wine. I've stayed off Facebook, which (along with not writing here) has enabled me to focus more on my work. I've started a Word doc journal that I update much more succinctly than my posts here, mainly just to track my events and moods for future reference.

I've been taking plant classes and continued to volunteer at the nature center. I bought a rain suit for use on my bike so I don't have to depend on anyone for rides even on rainy days. I've started going to yoga with Dustin. I've done some hiking. I've been reading more, including plant books, narrative stories about nature adventures, and a book on tantra philosophy that has given me some "aha" moments. I've spent more time practicing my bass and learning new techniques. I've been messing around more with new cooking techniques, too. I've made a point to reach out to more of my female friends, and actually did the Women's March with Cherry.

I've been working very hard to determine (in all areas of life) what I am comfortable with, what is uncomfortable but not damaging, and what is a big, fat NOPE (at least at the moment).

I've been working on becoming a happy, self-contained unit that can hopefully bring goodness into the lives of others without doing things that feel like "NOPE" to me. In working on this, I've had to become totally nonsexual with Rider for the time being. I've had to turn Dustin down when he requested for me to drive the band van for him, or when he wanted sex and I was too tired. I've had to tell my boss that I needed the rest of the evening to unwind when I'd already been traveling and working for 14 hours and he was requesting more from me.

I've had to verbally remind people that emotions are involuntary, so I cannot change mine on demand. I've had to ask for time-outs. I've had to firmly correct more than one person (not just partners) when they've tried to tell me how I feel or have put words in my mouth. Both of my partners have heard a lot more of things like "I'm sorry you're so unhappy. I get it. Would you like ['a hug' or whatever else I can actually offer]?" rather than my trying to mastermind some solve-everything solution or changing my own position to make them more comfortable.

And, as a result, I feel a lot more internally stable. I may still cry or react in a particular moment when a bad interaction is happening, but my boat is not rocked for long. I can only offer that which I am actually capable of giving without damaging myself. If that is not currently enough to meet someone's needs and desires, then I may just have to accept that we are not compatible at this time, whether it be due to temporary burnout or a more permanent kind of mismatch. If they can't accept what I do have to give, they are free to walk away. At this point, I would much, much, much rather be totally alone than be subjected to pressure to give more than I have emotional resources for.

So. That is where everything is at for the time being.

I still lurk here every few days or so. I'm just not really planning on continuing to write. I would like to thank you all for coming with me this far on my journey. It's been a wild ride, and I've learned so much and changed so much. It's fascinating to read back on my posts from two, three, nearly four years ago and be like, "Wow, I remember feeling that way but I so don't anymore." I kept handwritten journals from the ages of 12–21, and the same thing used to happen back then when I'd revisit my old writings. At least no one can accuse me of stagnation . . .
 

Mya

Member
Thank you Reverie, for writing this blog all the years that you did. It has been a joy to read, you write so well. :) Good luck going forward, I hope everything works out for the best, whatever that may be!
 

Confused

New member
Reverie, it’s been lovely to follow your journey all this time. I rarely post at all but I’ve kept coming back because your honesty and processing and learning was echoing much of mine though I have a very different life.

Thankyou for all you’ve helped me to see I’m not alone with over the years and so many wishes of happiness for the future.
 
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