the story of a secondary


New member
ooooohhhhh dates with strangers from the internet can be so very exciting :) I LOVE them, that feeling of nervousness and then (if it all turns out well, I've had my share of horror dates, but a lot of great ones too) that rush you get when you're chatting and all of a sudden you realize you're having a good time.
hope you have lots of fun!
/e also ponders what kind of response she'd get on OKC if her only requirement was "no axe murdering"

I hope the date is awesome, but even if it doesn't work out, if you end up "looking" as opposed to just "open to whatever shows up" I love OKC (to axe murdering depths) and although it's not always perfect, it's still really a great place to stretch your talking to totally random people social skills at, and meet potential friends!

Side note, thanks for linking to Gia's blog post. Some of her words came at a crucial time for me, and were appropriate to pass along to a partner for support too. AND your recent posts/tumblr were impetus to point out to my husband I'd love my partners to take turns marking me with hickeys, scratches and bruises in some sort of cooperative tic tac toe game. Le sigh.


Well-known member
Ahhhhhhhh, so, this weekend it'd been a month since my formal split from Davis, so I went ahead and updated my OKC profile, not intending to do anything with it per se, just to update it. But then I happened to find a cute, smart, musically-inclined, queer kinky poly somewhat-genderqueer guy who's a ridiculously good match with me by OKC's algorithms. I messaged him, and now we have a coffee date next week, how did this happen, I don't go on dates with strangers, not ever, I just hook up with my friends or occasionally really cool people I meet at parties and sometimes it turns into a relationship, what even, dates with a stranger from the internet, what. He told me today that his partner was teasing him about being excited about the date, seems like a good sign.

I get your aversion to online dating. In my imagination, my dating life would consist entirely of hopping into bed with friends and meeting cool people while doing fun things; but in reality, it's been over 6 years since I met anyone NOT through online dating. :(

But sometimes the algorithm really does work. :)


Woohoo, that sounds very exciting! Hope your date goes well. :) And I also laughed at axe murder being a hard limit. :D

Mya, I feel like our lives are weirdly parallel. :D Not to jinx it, but I can only hope things work out as crazy well for me as they did for you.

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? I also hope it works out as well for you as it did for me! I'm rooting for you! :)


Active member
Things have been crazy, y'all. I've never experienced anything quite like this. I don't know if it's just the flood of NRE that I'm not used to, or if there's really something special happening. Time will tell.

Clay (the OKC guy that I mentioned in my last post) and I have been chatting a lot since I contacted him over the weekend -- 15 minutes here, 30 there, and then for two straight hours the night before last. We talk about how our days are going, our other partners, our shared interests. We shared our Tumblr and Fetlife handles with each other. Things have gotten pretty steamy... the day after we first spoke, he read something that I'd posted on FL and wrote a short piece of erotica that he confided in me was inspired by it. The other night, during our particularly long conversation, we got to talking about D/s and the things we might be interested in trying together, and I ended up writing him a long, erotic email the following morning.

In our conversations, I've maintained that talking is fine, but that we have to meet in person and hang out for at least, y'know, a couple of freaking hours, before we start laying out a trajectory for a D/s dynamic. Which is all well and good, expect that a dynamic seems to be evolving spontaneously and strongly just through our online interactions. I don't even know what his voice sounds like! I don't know what vibe I'll get from the way he moves, or how he smells, or anything like that! How on earth is it that I'm thinking about him all the time?? How on earth is it that I already think of him as someone I'm ready to submit to? How is it that I'm turned on right now, just from having typed that last sentence??? Surely this is just some kind of overblown crush, like the kind that a teeanger would have, that just feels so strong because this is shaping up to be a D/s thing. But then again... Harry and I had a strong D/s component to our friends-with-benefits arrangement, and I never felt remotely this head over heels for him.

I can't believe I'm typing this, I almost don't want to acknowledge it even to myself, but there was a part of me that wanted to type "I love you" at the end of our long conversation. That is ABSURD. I've known him for five days, and have never met him in person. I certainly don't believe in love at first sight, much less love at first google chat. I'm doing my best to play it cool. And, frankly, I'm doing a slightly better job than he is -- he's admitted quite plainly that he's giddy about our upcoming date, that he's feeling the NRE very strongly, that he feels strongly drawn to me and turned on by me. I haven't been entirely coy about feeling the same, but I've kept the intensity of my feelings at least slightly under wraps so far. Trying to keep a level head, or at least the appearance of one.

I'm just grateful that I'm so busy right now. I've had social engagements, both with partners and with friends, almost every night this week so far, and will every day right up until Monday when Clay and I have our first date. I'm feeling a bit overbooked, in fact, but at the same time I'm grateful for the distraction. The closest thing that I can recall to feeling this way before was with my ex, Ziggy, back when I was just 18 and we were talking online constantly... but even that happened a little slower, and AFTER we already knew each other in real life. Ziggy ended up being the love of my life for many years, even though it didn't work out in the end. I wonder if this will be similar? What a silly thing to wonder, such a short time in.

And yet... often, when I questioned my quasi-monogamous arrangement with Davis, I found myself thinking "What if there's someone else out there, just waiting for me, someone who I'm missing out on the opportunity to be with, someone who I'm meant to be with? Forget that you don't believe in such ideas for the moment, and just imagine what that person would be like... someone queer, kinky, and poly, someone communicative and cute, who's an artist an activist..." Clay, as it happens, is all of those things. He's already slotted into a place in my brain that was waiting for him and it's a powerful feeling. I have to be careful to see him as he is, clearly and objectively, and not idealize him because he fits some template.

The other funny thing about him, aside from the fact that he fits so well with my idea of my ideal person, is that this actually isn't our first contact. I messaged him on OKC three years ago, just a single line to say hi. He messaged me back, a few paragraphs. It was a very nice, thoughtful reply. I never responded. He doesn't recall that contact, he said he's deleted a lot of old OKC messages and doesn't have that one anymore. But I still have it. When I wrote above that I "found" him on OKC, it's true, I stumbled upon his profile again, but I realized immediately that he was the same guy. I don't exactly make a habit of messaging people on OKC, I'd only ever done it twice, and he's the only one I didn't get back to (the other became a friend). It had actually stuck with me, I felt like a big wimp and sort of regretted it, but at the time I realized that I just wasn't ready to pursue a stranger like that. Every once in a great while, the opportunity that I'd let pass me by would come to mind. So, as odd as it is... I've actually been thinking about this guy for the past three years.

I'd say the anticipation for Monday is killing me, but... actaully, it's completely lovely and pleasant to have something coming up soon that I'm looking forward to so strongly.
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Which is all well and good, expect that a dynamic seems to be evolving spontaneously and strongly just through our online interactions. I don't even know what his voice sounds like! I don't know what vibe I'll get from the way he moves, or how he smells, or anything like that! How on earth is it that I'm thinking about him all the time??

Oh dear, so know this feeling :D Even though it took me longer to reach that point ;)

Wishing for a great date for you two and further inspiring conversation till then :cool:


New member
It's really great eh? The waiting? :rolleyes:
I know how you feel only you have more guts than me, I'm still avoiding the "lets meet" Convo cause I'm scared ill either pee myself with excitement or make a total fool of myself cause I misjudged the timing...

Can't wait to read what happens next!!
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Active member
In other news, I just had a very weird and upsetting phone conversation and I wanted to get it off my chest.

Two days ago I sent Harry a long email explaining that I'd broken up with Davis and that I wasn't sure whether or not I was open to the idea of resumption of physical intimacy between he and I, but that I might be, that I was open to the idea. Background on my connection with Harry:

As some further context, Harry's wife Violet and I have been chatting casually, as friends, and had talked just yesterday (the day after I sent the email) about nothing much of consequence. During that conversation, she mentioned that she and Harry weren't poly, but were potentially interested in playing with another woman together. The "not poly" thing surprised me. Between that and the implication that they would only play together it occurred to me that my email had been way off base. Oh well, I thought, no harm done.


Today, Harry messaged me and told me that Violet had been very upset by my email and saw it as me going behind her back since I didn't check in with her before sending it. He said that he thought she was overblowing the matter, and that she wouldn't have interpreted it that way if she knew me, but that he thought it might be a good idea for me to call her if I wanted to mend that bridge. I said that certainly I would.

I called her just now and learned something very upsetting. She never knew that Harry and I had been intimate. At first she hadn't wanted to know about any involvements he'd had before they got married. Fair enough. But then, a few months ago, she had asked him point blank about me and apparently he lied. He lied and said we'd never had a thing going on between us besides friendship.

My whole plan of what to say to her had been based around the idea that of course I knew Harry would never lie to her and so how could I have possibly thought I was going behind her back? Once she laid it all out, I was at a complete loss. I would have sworn to you that Harry was a man of great integrity and just would not lie to the face of someone he loved. What on earth was I basing that on? :( :( Maybe I can be too trusting. Something to keep in mind with Clay, I guess.

She told me that he said he'd lied just to spare her feelings. Ok, dumb, really dumb and also wrong, but maybe understandable. But what really takes the cake is that apparently after he got my email he asked her what she thought about the idea of a threesome with me. That was when my email to him came out and he was forced to admit that he'd lied. Apparently he eventually apologized, but only after a long back and forth. Apparently she went a little crazy and was beyond furious with me, saw me as some shady liar smiling in her face while scheming to get with her husband behind her back.

As we talked on the phone today she just got everything off her chest. She was clearly still upset but she let me explain and listened and actually apologized to me, so I respect her for that. She also made it abundantly clear that independent dating or sex was never going to be on the table for her and Harry (he told me once, shortly after we first met, that he'd never be so dumb as to make himself miserable by getting into a monogamous relationship again... I chose not to mention that fact, even though it would have bolstered my "case" as to why my email had seemed reasonable to me), that threesomes to enhance their sex life were the only thing currently acceptable for them and that one day a triad with another woman might be viable.

SOOOO, that unicorn hunter vibe I was afraid of getting from them? Yeeeeah, called it. :( :(

By the end of the conversation it was clear that she still thought that, at best, I'd made a selfish, thoughtless mistake by not talking to her before approaching Harry. I didn't try to argue, just apologized again, wished them the best, and let the conversation end.


I immediately messaged Clay.
Me: "Hey, er, weird question, but would any of your partners be expecting me to check in with them before our date by any chance? Like, I'm absolutely positive you would have mentioned it if that were the case but I just had a weird experience that made me think of it."
Him: "No, I consider it my responsibility to tell my partners what's going on with me. If you and I hit it off, you can certainly meet them later."
Me: "How immensely sane and reasonable, thank you."

ETA: Violet just called me back to apologize again and to make it clear that she considered this to be all Harry's fault, but that it was something that she was willing to forgive him for (among the mitigating factors is the fact that his last wife was emotionally abusive and made him afraid to talk about hard things), and that she hoped we could still be friends. We were all actually supposed to hang out on Friday to meet some of Harry's old friends. I said that it was very nice of her to call, but that I assumed they would need at least a little time and space and therefore I wouldn't plan to come on Friday. She said that canceling might not be necessary and that we could check in with each other tomorrow. I might well skip it even if she's cooled down sufficiently... I'm pretty pissed at Harry right now. He's way too smart of a guy to have made such a dumb call.
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Active member
The moral for me: Don't make assumptions about other people's relationships, just ask. Especially not after a year and a freaking half. If I'd just sent an email saying "Hey Harry, Davis and I broke up. I'm not sure what I want at this point, and of course things may well have changed for you. What agreements do you and Violet have?" everything would have been fine. Of course, his lie probably still would have come to light and things probably still would have exploded, so it actually wouldn't have been fine but at least I would've felt less foolish on my end.


Active member
Realizing another big reason why I'm pissed at Harry is that I feel set up. He could have told me that a major part of the reason Violet was upset was because he lied. Instead, I prepared all these things to say which became completely irrelevant once we started talking. I had NO idea what I was getting into because he only gave me part of the picture.

What the hell, dude, you can be such a cool, smart, and sweet guy, I know you can. I'm so disappointed to see this side of you.

Makes me wonder what really happened between him and his ex-wife. Maybe it wasn't all about her being a hateful psycho unjustly persecuting him for just wanting to move on after all.......


New member
You know, I've been mulling over the question 'why poly?' lately. When I was visiting my new FWB earlier this week we talked about that question and as we were sitting on the couch, about an arms length away from each other, both wondering when would be the moment when one of us would lean in to kiss... I said 'you know what? this is it, this is Why Poly'.

Thought about that when I read your story about Clay. It is such an amazing feeling, the buzz, the expectation, the feeling that anything is possible. Experiencing that every now and then.. so lovely. Rooting for you that the date is as wonderful as the anticipation!


Well-known member
... She never knew that Harry and I had been intimate. At first she hadn't wanted to know about any involvements he'd had before they got married. Fair enough. But then, a few months ago, she had asked him point blank about me and apparently he lied. He lied and said we'd never had a thing going on between us besides friendship.

... the idea that of course I knew Harry would never lie to her and so how could I have possibly thought I was going behind her back? Once she laid it all out, I was at a complete loss. I would have sworn to you that Harry was a man of great integrity and just would not lie to the face of someone he loved. What on earth was I basing that on?

Holy Crap...I just had to say that this completely rang a bell for me. (Sorry if this gets long.)

Both MrS and Dude know my entire sexual history (and I their's) - basically anything we haven't explicitly told each other is an oversight that simply never came up in conversation.

We were going to the house of MsJ and her husband ("Rube" in my Journey thread). MsJ has been my occasional FWB for several years and her husband was MrS's best friend in HS...and also a friend of mine from that time (I actually met MrS because of this mutual network of friends). MrS and Dude both know that I had sex with MsJ's husband years and years ago (20ish years) - as a FWB type thing, no romantic entanglement.

Before going to their house for the evening Dude asked me specifically if MsJ knew that I had slept with her husband way back then. I was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that she did. I actually remember a conversation between me, her, and another friend-wife ("MrClean" in my "Journey" thread) shortly after they (MsJ and Rube) had moved in together (must be 10-15 years ago now) - where I was talking about how everyone at my wedding had slept with the bride, the groom, or each other. I don't recall the exact conversation - but my recollection is that I understood that MsJ "knew" that I had slept with "Rube" - but that I told her that she would have to get the details from him. (And that "MrClean's" wife "knew" that I hadn't slept with her not-then husband because he came along as a friend after the whole "everyone sleeping with everyone" phase). I even feel that we had talked about it on occasions after that...

WELL, after I left the boys there it apparently came up as a topic of conversation. And MsJ FLIPPED HER LID and claimed she never, ever knew! I actually suspect that she mixed up the stories of me - who he slept with but didn't have a romantic "thing" with and another girl ("PonyGirl" in my "Journey" thread) that he had a "thing" for and never slept with. I think this may also have been influenced that she had recently found out that he HAD cheated on her AFTER they were together/married (something that I NEVER would have thought him capable of!). But JEESH! - I think that she is well aware of this "ancient history" and then a whole "kerfluffle" occurs...WTF!?!


PS. I don't know that this is relevant - other than commiserating in the outcomes that happen when you think/assume/know that someone "knows" something...and they don't (or don't remember that they do).


Active member
There's so much I wanna say and respond to. Instead, for now, I'll just say this one thing. I was chatting online with Gia just now, and she said that she could hear Bee calling out for me in his sleep from the bedroom.

all the feeeeeeeeeeelllliiiiiiinngsss

I get to babysit him for a large chunk of the day tomorrow. :)


Active member
Bleargh re: Harry. Yay re: Bee!

I thought it was great that you identified exactly what bothered you about the Harry incident, esp that he didn't give you a heads-up on why Violet was upset about your e-mal. I've had something similar happen to me before, and it's gross - being caught by surprise in someone else's shitstorm. Glad you're taking care of yourself, and keeping it steady for your date on Monday :D


Active member
So, uh. So. So, I... fell in love with him? With Clay.

This was unexpected.

As the last week went on, and he and I kept talking and building a rapport and an intimacy, I was feeling more and more strongly that this was going to be serious. The larger part of me has consistently felt oddly calm about this, but another part of me has definitely been scared. He suggested that we could meet up a few days before we'd planned to, at a party he was running, and I said I wasn't ready, that I needed to meet him at a familiar, comfortable, public place and stay there for at *least* the first hour or so. After that? Well, we were taking it more and more as a given that we'd be going back to his place.

I've decided to post on my tumblr blog about the journey from the night before we met to the day after, so if you want to know some of the details of how it all went down, you can read about it there.

I told him how I was feeling while we were making love (most people would have called what we were doing "particularly rough sex" rather than "making love", but it felt like both of those things). I told someone that I'd known for a week, and had just met for the first time mere hours before, that I loved him. His response, which was one part wonderment, one part anxiety, and one part simple surprise, was: "You do?" "I don't know, man, maybe?!?" I replied. Y'know, keeping my cool and all... He told me that he wasn't sure, but that he thought he might feel the same way.

We spent the night together, did all sorts of wonderful, wonderful, wonderful D/s things (he hurt me, I worshiped his feet, you get the idea), as well as mundane things (got takeout, watched a movie). We talked about how crazy, implausible, and amazing it all was. I can't stress enough how sincere, genuine, and honest he was throughout everything. He admitted to me that he was a little scared. I told him that I felt like I should be, that I probably would be again later. I'm not any more, though, for the record. Scared, that is.

We talked about our other partners, about wanting to check in with them as soon as possible, being nervous about their reactions but also trusting them. We talked about our relationship philosophies, which can be boiled down to "stay with someone as long as you're both good for each other, let your relationships affect each other only in good ways if at all possible". So often, our conversations came down to one of us saying something and the other saying "I feel exactly the same way."

I'm in love, you guys. He's amazing. We're going to explore so many things together, so many things we've both wanted for so long and have both relatively recently felt fully and completely ready to give.

I've asked myself if this is just some sort of weird overreaction to wanting D/s so much and finding someone else who wants it too and can actually give it to me. But then I remember Harry. He hurt me in the ways I wanted to be hurt, he gave me orders, he even suggested collaring me (I said no) and I just simply never felt more for him than I would for a dear friend. So, no, it's not that, not just that anyway.

He told his other main partner last night about everything he and I wanted to do and what we were becoming together, and she was very happy for him. :)

I saw Gia briefly last night (she and Eric had a date and I was there to babysit), and had time tell her "It went ridiculously well. This is going to be serious." She was ecstatic for me, her face lit up like the sun, she fell on me and hugged me. I laughed and said I hadn't expected her to be quite SO happy. She explained that, while she had eventually gotten over feeling guilty about not having enough time and energy to do all the things I've wanted to do with her, she had always hoped I could have that with someone.

I'm seeing Davis tonight for dinner. I'm going to tell him that I've met someone new, that I'm likely going to be getting into another serious secondary relationship not unlike the one I have with Gia. If he wants to know more, I'll tell him more, if he doesn't, I won't. I truly don't know how he'll take it, I can see his reactions ranging from unconcerned to really not ok. We'll see.
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Well-known member
I'm so glad to hear this! I've been concerned that you weren't getting what you really needed/wanted with Gia & Eric. (Not that you needed to get everything from one person, but you know what I mean.)

If things keep going well with Clay, I think things will go even better with Gia too, because the pressure on her will be less.

Keep us posted!