Threesome Trouble

[Olivia1984]

Hey everyone!

My husband and I have had a brief off/on relationship with another woman for a little while. In the past, she had been offensive towards my husband, to the point where he decided to put an end to the dynamic.

Fast forward to the past month or so where this same woman came out of the wood work. The two of them smoothed things over. Apologies were made and all was forgiven.

This past weekend, we ended up hosting this woman in our home. Outside of the amazing sex we shared together, the three of us, I cooked dinner, picked up a special dessert she had previously hinted at that she loved, and cooked breakfast the next morning. She was incredibly thankful in person, which I very much appreciated.

The next day had come and gone, and I had never heard from her. When my husband mentioned that the two of them had been chatting again and had the opportunity to debrief, etc, I found myself feeling a bit put-off that I hadn't heard from her myself.

Yes, I could have gotten in touch with her myself. But I just think that when it was so obvious how much I, personally, put into hosting her and ensuring she was comfortable, I felt slighted that she hadn't bothered to reach out to me at all.

I expressed my feelings to my husband, and he's completely invalidated how I'm feeling and is making it seem like her lack of reaching out to me is no big deal. He's said I'm overreacting.

When the next afternoon rolled around and still - nothing from her - I reached out myself and said I was a little surprised I hadn't heard from her yet, and that I've usually always made a point of reaching out to the other woman when I've been welcomed into the home as a third, but laughed it off by saying, "I guess I'm a little old fashioned that way and can't expect everyone would go about these things the same way I would". I then went on to ask whether I had done anything wrong or made her feel uncomfortable in any way (which, if I had, would make sense for her not reaching out to me).

Anyway, she completely took offense to what I said and ran off to my husband to essentially "snitch" on me, while at the same time ending things between the three of us entirely.

Now, I'm a huge asshole in my husband's eyes. He's "embarassed" and "disappointed" that I reacted "as I did". He only knows whatever she told him, and will not listen to anything I have to say.

The irony isn't lost on me how forgiving he had been towards this woman, but yet is holding a massive grudge towards me for feeling upset and communicating my feelings to her.

Would it have been better to sweep my feelings under the rug in this scenario and just carry on? I've always felt the ability to communicate is healthy.

Just looking for some advice around what I should do here, and I suppose also wondering whether I truly am an asshole for having brought anything up to this woman in the first place.

Really appreciate some feedback!

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I think you have to Let Go of some of your expectations. It sounds like some casual sex and it's not always expected for you to follow up with the usual sentimental text messages of gratitude after casual sex.

When you have casual sex as a couple, you have to understand that many non-monogamous people sort of compartmentalize between the type of sexual connection they have with couples, and the type of connection they nurture with an individual date.

It sounds like she compartmentalizes by seeing your husband as the person she "dates" and then she has casual sex with you both as a couple. I don't think she wants to foster a dating relationship with you.

For reasons related to things like Unicorn Hunting, many singles who are up for sex with couples put a boundary around dating them. They don't want a triad because the single person often gets the shorter straw.

I think when you have casual sex, the most you can do is hope that they'll be into the same sort of "warm" connection that you have in mind. You could make sure you have the best chance of that by texting first to alleviate their doubts over whether it would be appropriate.

But I think a lot of this is acceptance that casual relationships are casual for a reason. I mean, what could you offer this person over the long term? Anything like the security you have with your husband?

And also acceptance that nobody is going to be into you equally.

Lastly, there is a queer angle here. Women without much experience of dating other women sometimes get caught up in the role they play during heterosexual dating relationships. That passive role where the "man" reads the signs that you want something other than what you have and proposes that you escalate the relationship to the next stage. Other women are not men. You have to find new ways to interact with your dating partners who are women and take some of the rejection risk that men typically are expected to shoulder.

 

[Magdlyn]

Have you been "welcomed into a couple's home as a third" a lot? Have you welcomed "thirds" into your home a lot, shared sex and food for an overnight/weekend?

I think you should treat each encounter individually. Not all women are going to like you as much as they like your husband. Or some may prefer you. You may get along better with the female of a couple, or vice versa.

In a triad, each person is a hinge and a leg of a V. This is the most complicated relationship form to navigate and maintain. Especially if you and your h only date people as a unit... there is going to be imbalance. And if both of you need to break up with a woman just because one of you has an issue with her, you're treating her as disposable unless she minutely balances her interactions with each of you.

This article may help:

So, someone called you a Unicorn Hunter?

This article is a long, technical discussion of what being a "Unicorn Hunter" means, what's wrong with it, and how people in such a situation can try to avoid the negative stereotypes associated with such behavior and get the things that they are ultimately looking for. It is written in a…

davidlnoble.livejournal.com

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Olivia1984,

It seems to me that this woman (with whom you were having threesomes) is something of a problem; maybe you are better off without her (even if your husband disagrees with that). In any case, she has dumped you (and your husband), so maybe the point is moot. I suppose it's possible you could get her back, but to do so, you would have to apologize to her, and if you don't feel that you owe her an apology, you wouldn't be able to apologize sincerely, and she might pick up on that. I don't think you were wrong to tell her how you felt (about her not contacting you), but maybe she felt like she did enough when she thanked you profusely while she was still in your home. I guess I am inclined to suggest that you let her go, but you'll have to decide what feels right to you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Olivia1984]

I think you have to Let Go of some of your expectations. It sounds like some casual sex and it's not always expected for you to follow up with the usual sentimental text messages of gratitude after casual sex.

When you have casual sex as a couple, you have to understand that many non-monogamous people sort of compartmentalize between the type of sexual connection they have with couples, and the type of connection they nurture with an individual date.

It sounds like she compartmentalizes by seeing your husband as the person she "dates" and then she has casual sex with you both as a couple. I don't think she wants to foster a dating relationship with you.

For reasons related to things like Unicorn Hunting, many singles who are up for sex with couples put a boundary around dating them. They don't want a triad because the single person often gets the shorter straw.

I think when you have casual sex, the most you can do is hope that they'll be into the same sort of "warm" connection that you have in mind. You could make sure you have the best chance of that by texting first to alleviate their doubts over whether it would be appropriate.

But I think a lot of this is acceptance that casual relationships are casual for a reason. I mean, what could you offer this person over the long term? Anything like the security you have with your husband?

And also acceptance that nobody is going to be into you equally.

Lastly, there is a queer angle here. Women without much experience of dating other women sometimes get caught up in the role they play during heterosexual dating relationships. That passive role where the "man" reads the signs that you want something other than what you have and proposes that you escalate the relationship to the next stage. Other women are not men. You have to find new ways to interact with your dating partners who are women and take some of the rejection risk that men typically are expected to shoulder.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response; I very much appreciate it!

Yes, I think you're absolutely right that I should let go of my expectations of others. I guess I just struggle with knowing that "line" of when it's okay to mention when I feel bothered, and keeping my feelings to myself.

If I had kept it to myself instead and the three of us continued down this road again, that would likely lead to me feeling shitty all over again for the same reason.

I thought to myself that I could just put in less of my personal effort and avoid hosting her in our home the next time, although I'm sure I'd be pressed as to "why" from my husband, and my "feelings" would come out then anyway.

It's just kinda seems like no matter how I went about this, I'd be damned either way.

I've been thinking some more, and realize that the thing I'm most upset by is the lack of support my husband extended to me when I first mentioned that I was feeling slighted by her to him. I certainly don't expect him to "agree" with me, but I need to feel safe in my own marriage communicating things and talking things out in a healthy way. If our conversation were to result in him gently, lovingly helping me to realize that I needed to lower my expectations of her (and expectations of other people, in general, tbh), that would've been very welcomed. But instead, it turned into him becoming verbally aggressive towards me. It felt like he was more concerned with protecting this threesome dynamic, her actions/inactions, and his "fun", rather than nurturing my feelings in that moment.

It feels like when it comes to both him and this other woman, any type of conversation involving me expressing my feelings is not allowed. It feels like the preference is for me to be a robot and just go along with things.

I guess that's a whole other issue for another page!

Very much appreciate all of these responses; thank you 💜

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. And all this happened like this.

I mean all this kindly ok?

Nothing stops you from reaching out to a threesome partner the next day to check in and see they are ok. Like basic polite manners. People can crash after a lot of activity like that -- like a hangover. Or feel extra sensitive. And other stuff.

Sounds like you were in your own after funk-- Like sensitive? Maybe wanting some aftercare? Kind words?

It's like you wanted her to make the first move and got upset she didn't. But she DID check in with him. So you were envious.

When it might be equally on you to check in with your threesome people -- her and your husband. And it is equally on husband to check on you and her. And she could check on both husband and you. People need time to get around to it. And some people treat a couple like a "unit" which sucks. Like she checked in with him and figured he'd pass it on. (Not excuse, but it happens.)

Sounds like you got upset she didn't notice or thank you for the efforts you made in hosting, cooking, getting her fav desert, and making things extra nice. Doesn't sound like husband thanked you either.

Know what? It's ok to NOT to do all that. Nothing wrong with a basic hotel.

Then you when you expressed you were upset? Husband didn't center you or check on how you were. And instead he minimized your feelings, and was more about looking for his next chance to threesome. Ran right over you.

When the next afternoon rolled around and still - nothing from her - I reached out myself and said I was a little surprised I hadn't heard from her yet, and that I've usually always made a point of reaching out to the other woman when I've been welcomed into the home as a third, but laughed it off by saying, "I guess I'm a little old fashioned that way and can't expect everyone would go about these things the same way I would". I then went on to ask whether I had done anything wrong or made her feel uncomfortable in any way (which, if I had, would make sense for her not reaching out to me).

If you actually are ok with it and don't expect other people to behave like you would? It would have been enough to go "Hey, surprised I hadn't heard from you. Wanted to check in and debrief, make sure you are ok. How are you?"

And actually center HER.

Basically you did what your husband did you. NOT centering the person of concern. Running right over them.

That whole part in bold can also read like a guilt trip. Because if you do extra nice hosting things nobody asked you to do... you took it upon yourself. If guests don't care about those things or notice? Why get mad at the people? Just stop doing extras.

Anyway, she completely took offense to what I said and ran off to my husband to essentially "snitch" on me, while at the same time ending things between the three of us entirely.

And if she wants to end it all over that rather than sort out misunderstandings? She can do that. Kinda overreacting, in my mind. But again... right after group sex people can be sensitive.

If I had kept it to myself instead and the three of us continued down this road again, that would likely lead to me feeling shitty all over again for the same reason.

Honestly? Bow out. No more threesomes with your husband. He can do them with other people, not you. And if he hosts, HE can do all the work.

Less crap for you to deal in.

It feels like when it comes to both him and this other woman, any type of conversation involving me expressing my feelings is not allowed. It feels like the preference is for me to be a robot and just go along with things.

That's another problem. And NO. You are not obligated to share any kind of sex with anyone.

 

[Olivia1984]

Hi GalaGirl,

Thanks for your response.

Correct. I was put off that I shared my husband with her and did all the things mentioned, and the next day - I was irrelevant to her. They both knew how apprehensive I was around even having this thing go down in our home in the first place (she earns a basic wage so splitting a hotel wouldn't work for her). So yes, I did feel slighted afterwards that she couldn't be bothered to reach out to me in light of everything.

You're right; I could have reached out, but it's a matter of principle for me. She reaches out to my husband who gave her cock and poured her a drink, but crickets on my end... lol

I'm honestly surprised that anyone in this scenario would brush this off or be completely unbothered by it.

The part where you mentioned how my husband ran over me, and I, in turn, ran over her ... I think I knew that on either a conscious or subconscious level that that was happening, if I'm honest. I suppose it's fair to say that I acted out by bringing this up to her, since I was completely upset and frustrated that he tore into me for even talking to him about my feelings.

I guess maybe the thing I should've done was just notice the lack of a reach-out on her end, reach out to her myself and brush right past it, not mention anything to my husband at all since he's a loose cannon, and try to come up with an alternate plan for the next time which doesn't involve me hosting (which will be all out of our pocket entirely).

Sounds like I have to become more of a meek, agreeable woman.

Haha but in all seriousness, I think you're right that I'll just avoid threesomes with my husband going forward and remove myself from the equation entirely. It's always a joy for me anyways hearing how nurturing he is towards other woman and *their* feelings, but he can't be bothered to do the same for me🙄

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm honestly surprised that anyone in this scenario would brush this off or be completely unbothered by it.

I would be bothered by husband behaving this way. I'd be bothered by this lady treating the couple as a unit and not checking in with me. I am not a CoupleBlob.

When negotiating a threesome? I'd speak up about expectations before, during and after. It's like negotiating kink -- what the before care /during/ after care is gonna be. People could talk it out so everyone's on the same page. I'm not sure you were all on the same page for expectations.

You're right; I could have reached out, but it's a matter of principle for me. She reaches out to my husband who gave her cock and poured her a drink, but crickets on my end... lol

Maybe something came up for her.

Maybe she defaults to treating the couple as a unit, so expected that talking to him IS talking to you. She expects him to pass it along.

Or newbie whatevers.

Or poor behaviors.

Or not really interested in you and mostly wants to get with husband. You are incidental.

Who really knows? Only she does and now she's gone.

Sounds like I have to become more of a meek, agreeable woman.

On the contrary -- I suggest you create and enforce stronger personal boundaries with your spouse. And stop going along with whatever husband wants out of "robot you."

You are your own person. If she didn't check in and you wanted to hear from her? Call her yourself then.

Bow out of doing threesomes with your husband if he behaves poorly. Don't cohost anything like that with him again. Do LESS for people who do not appreciate your hosting extra nice efforts. If you are going to threesome, maybe do it with other people more on your wavelength/style. And talk about expectations beforehand.

Set up separate banking if you do not have it already. So he has his personal checking to go out with friends, dates, buy personal shopping whatever. And you have yours. And then the house bills are undisturbed.

The part where you mentioned how my husband ran over me, and I, in turn, ran over her ... I think I knew that on either a conscious or subconscious level that that was happening, if I'm honest. I suppose it's fair to say that I acted out by bringing this up to her, since I was completely upset and frustrated that he tore into me for even talking to him about my feelings.

Him tearing into you was not ok.

If I know husband ripped into you? The context? (Which I do, because I'm reading your posts.) Then when I hear this?

I guess I'm a little old fashioned that way and can't expect everyone would go about these things the same way I would". I then went on to ask whether I had done anything wrong or made her feel uncomfortable in any way (which, if I had, would make sense for her not reaching out to me).

That sounds like you wanted soothing, kind words, and appreciation. And maybe you were hoping she'd say something like "Oh, no, my bad. I was just busy with X and hadn't gotten to call you yet. You were lovely and so nice getting me that dessert!" or similar. To help soothe you from husband's ugh treatment.

But then "calling to check on her" isn't the purpose of the call is it? The purpose of the call was to ask for kind words of appreciation.

But to her? Coming out of the sky with no context? It could sound like a guilt trip or something. Like she sucks for not calling sooner and she went on the defensive. Are you able to see that?

Since she dropped you both? This is part is over -- the bungled threesome communication. Though you could think about improving communication skills.

But you and husband... those issues remain and you have some big issues to sort out. Treating you poorly is not a good thing. You are NOT a robot, and dismissing you, putting you down... ugh.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

. I was put off that I shared my husband with her

Your husband isn't a barbie doll and you let your friend from school come over and play with it. Respect him as an autonomous human being. Not your possession. That's a really ugly way to think.

but it's a matter of principle for me.

See this is all about the fact you think your husband is "yours" and she should be grateful you let her have a go on him.

I'm honestly surprised that anyone in this scenario would brush this off or be completely unbothered by it

I'd be unbothered because if I wanted her to be my dating partner, I'd have made those steps beforehand. It was casual sex.

Sounds like I have to become more of a meek, agreeable woman.

Actually I think you've got to stop thinking of yourself as his owner and it will be easier stop feeling like you're owed gratitude for sharing his penis.

It's always a joy for me anyways hearing how nurturing he is towards other woman and *their* feelings, but he can't be bothered to do the same for me🙄

He can't make someone else feel like they should be appreciative to you for allowing him to have sex with them. You need to let go of your assumed role as his owner.

 

[Magdlyn]

I was put off that I shared my husband with her and did all the things mentioned, and the next day - I was irrelevant to her. They both knew how apprehensive I was around even having this thing go down in our home...

So you were kind of coerced into doing this to please your husband, it sounds like. You are apprehensive about threeway sex and are feeling pretty stressed about the whole thing. You needed aftercare from hubby, but all you got was dismissed by him for having any negative feelings at all. Then you called the casual sex partner for reassurance, but that turned into you being critical about her for only calling hubby and not you.

Just as a reminder, this is a polyamory board, not a casual sex/swinger board. So you might want to take the advice and opinions you get with a grain of salt. Many/most polyamorous couples do not "play together" as a unit and do group sex.

You're right; I could have reached out, but it's a matter of principle for me. She reaches out to my husband who gave her cock and poured her a drink, but crickets on my end... lol

Ouch.

I'm honestly surprised that anyone in this scenario would brush this off or be completely unbothered by it.

The part where you mentioned how my husband ran over me, and I, in turn, ran over her ... I think I knew that on either a conscious or subconscious level that that was happening, if I'm honest. I suppose it's fair to say that I acted out by bringing this up to her, since I was completely upset and frustrated that he tore into me for even talking to him about my feelings.

That is honest and insightful of you. That sounds upsetting, like all he is thinking about is getting "some strange," and you better just go along with it, no matter what. That's horrible. You are not a sex doll. And neither is the other woman/women you 2 have been attempting to engage this way. Sex involves feelings for most people, good feelings and sometimes bad ones.

I guess maybe the thing I should've done was just notice the lack of a reach-out on her end, reach out to her myself and brush right past it, not mention anything to my husband at all since he's a loose cannon,

Why are you walking in a minefield with a loose cannon?

... and try to come up with an alternate plan for the next time which doesn't involve me hosting (which will be all out of our pocket entirely).

Sounds like I have to become more of a meek, agreeable woman.

Nope! Maybe swinging sometimes seems to depend on wives being meek and agreeable, but polyamory is for feminists. Some swinger women do just go along with it, and have sex with women or men they find unattractive, in order to keep their husbands from wandering away from the marriage by just cheating. That is really sad. In this day and age, no one should feel they have to be in that passive position to hang onto their man.

Haha but in all seriousness, I think you're right that I'll just avoid threesomes with my husband going forward and remove myself from the equation entirely.

Yeah. In that case, will he just attempt to have sex with other individual women, I wonder? Set up threesomes? Take you to swinger parties as the price of admission (couples only) and do his thing there? Maybe then at least you won't be hosting and making special foods. As for aftercare, that will have to be discussed with your hubs, if he is even willing to provide any.

When you decide to discuss this, make sure you both are well-nourished and rested and possibly do it on a Friday or Saturday so you don't have to go to work exhausted. You could read up on Non-Violent communication skills. They will help. Calling him names (loose cannon), or using sarcasm (maybe I just need to be more meek and mild), or being sarcastic (as below) may not be the most helpful ways to deal with this.

It's always a joy for me anyways hearing how nurturing he is towards other woman and *their* feelings, but he can't be bothered to do the same for me🙄

Well! That's a fine kettle of fish. Sounds like you need to totally rethink this whole swinger thing...

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

So you might want to take the advice and opinions you get with a grain of salt. Many/most polyamorous couples do not "play together" as a unit and do group sex.

Fwiw, I do, so I'm speaking from direct personal experience here.