Too New

Hey Kevin & Magdlyn,

My poly guy Kile says some days his fingers are shot, & phone calls work. So we are getting to a middle ground, which is perfect. Some moments it feels like it's gaining momentum. I think once we establish a regular person-to-person l will start to feel a bit more secure. I think airing my fears helps him respond better.

Nb: I may have misinterpreted advice from another member about giving a timeline on bowing out of a relationship if needs weren't being met.
Though if my needs are not being met, why would l stay & suffer?

Regards,
Tania
 
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My polyguy Kile says some days his fingers are shot, & phone call works. So we are getting to some middle ground which is perfect, some moments it feels like its getting a momentum.
Great you and Kile found a compromise on communication.
It's his last week before his resignation, right? Seems most of his spoons are going into his work this period.
I feel once we establish a regular person to person l will start to feel a bit more secure.
Have you set up upcoming dates when he is finished with one job?

Think airing my fears helps him respond better.
Hope he can accommodate you to your wants and needs.
Nb: i may have misinterpreted advice from another member bout giving a timeline on bowing out of a relationship if needs weren't being met.
Though if my needs are not being met. Why would l stay & suffer?
Have you given it a timeline, if he is not able to change and this behaviour continues when he segues into community work?
 
With the last day over, he & Nester are sitting down & reviewing his schedules to provide proper time for me.

I'm unsure what you meant by spoons.

l really adore him. He comes across as he is trying. l know he has more to juggle than me. I've asked, "Do you think you have the capacity to attend to my needs?" But l think he is caught up in NRE.

Putting time restraints will be hard. I imagine a month should be enough time to gauge if changes will happen. Though it will be painful to walk away.
 
With the last day over, he & Nester are sitting down & reviewing his schedules to provide proper time for me.
That's great. Sounds very promising.

I'm unsure what you meant by spoons.
Energy-wise, based on spoon theory.
l really adore him & he comes across as he is trying, l know there's more to juggle his way than myself.
If you are willing to find out for the time being with him being in transition, that's okay.

I've asked "Do you think you have the capacity to attend to my needs?" but l think he is caught up NRE.
What do you mean, NRE? Thought the reason you were not hearing from Kile was because of work transition and him and Nester new with opening up? Or is he not new to this?

Putting time restraints will be hard. I imagine a month should be enough time to gauge if changes will happen. Though it will be painful to walk away.
Let's wait and see.
 
New relationship energy. Oh, he is half my age & quite fit. But that's physically. On an emotional level, l am unsure. He has declared his love & devotion in fulfilling my needs. Kile is new to poly & being a hinge. Nester is experienced. The journey is a learning one. So let's see.
 
Though if my needs are not being met, why would l stay & suffer?

Yes, why should you?

If poly-dating him makes you too anxious, it's ok to drop him. It's ok to pause to educate yourself and not jump in blind.

It kinda sounds like you are new to polyamory, and because of that, are letting a lot of things "slide" that you normally wouldn't in monogamy. Could that be true? Poly isn't anything special. It's just another relationship model. It doesn't mean basic good manners disappear.

It's ok to be new. It's ok for a new relationship to still be shaking out and not be totally steady yet. It's NEW. But remember that you are still the expert on yourself, and what YOU will and will not put up with in a relationship; what you can and cannot give; what you do and do not feel like doing.

These early days are the "getting to know you" and vetting time. So get to know him and vet him as a potential. See if there's even anything there.

we limit it to one partner each outside of each other to ensure we pay proper attention to the people we adore.

That's not your shared agreement, though. You don't have to agree to do any of that.

That's between him and his nesting partner in their dyad. You could ask if he's got any other agreements with the other partner that might affect you or how the you and him dyad can develop. Some you might be ok with, like condoms used with all partners, because you want that, too. Others you might not be ok with, like his NP having veto power.


I actually don't want to date outside of him, unless l meet someone I click with. He did say, with the new job, he & the nester were reorganising their schedules to give me proper time.

So don't promise him anything. Right now this is open on both sides. Both of you can date other people. He sure is, you and his NP.

If you don't feel like dating more people right now, don't. If you change your mind later and want to date more people, do that. YOU decide to exercise your dating options when YOU want to.

Educate yourself more about what you got yourself into. Learn about polyamory on your own. Don't rely on him to "teach you."

Galagirl
 
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Thanks for the extensive amount of info. I appreciate the suggestions.

It's actually my idea of poly-fidelity. I get it. You grow from poly, so at some point l may renegotiate the terms of our dynamics.

He only has the main nester.
 
Glad it helps you some.

Its actually my idea of poly-fidelity. I get that you grow from poly, so at some point l may renegotiate the terms of our dynamics.

You don't have to start as poly-fi with him. What are the current terms of your dynamics? He has an agreement with his NP to date only one other person, and that person is you. That is THEIR dynamic in their dyad. It doesn't mean that you have to promise to date only him. You can date only him WITHOUT promising him anything just yet. You are still working out your dynamics and getting to know each other first.

Even monogamous people don't promise to go steady from the first date. They build toward that. Be ok with taking your time here.

GG
 
I just want to feel safe & secure, with prioritised time with him. I want respect, and equal input when any decisions arise regarding me. As l am new, l am unsure what else l want. I did read the article on being a secondary, like the rule that time will be limited because of his primary commitments.

"I have the right to be treated with honesty, integrity, compassion, and sensitivity to my needs, treated with dignity, respect, consideration, and courtesy.
I have the right to expect that plans made with my partner will not be changed at the last minute just because a primary partner has had a bad day. As a secondary, I deal with most of my bad days alone and have the right to expect last-minute changes in plans to happen only in rare and unavoidable situations."


This is a start. Apart from the above, I don't know what else to expect.
 
I want to feel safe & secure, with prioritised time with him. I want respect, equal input when any decisions arise regarding me.

All good things to want.
As l am new. l am unsure what else l want.

Fair. That's why you take your time dating and getting to know each other.
I did read the article on being secondary, like the rule that time will be limited because of his primary commitments..

But did you even want or agree to sign up for a primary-secondary model here?

This list is not exhaustive, but has examples of other open models:


He can tell you what he has to offer you in terms of time and energy. He might even want a primary-secondary model and offer you that. But that doesn't mean you have to automatically accept that. You might prefer other models. Maybe you want to ask him if, over time, a co-primary model could be on the table, or not.

You are new. You haven't done all your reading yet. So I suggest you enjoy dating and getting to know each other better, but don't agree to anything or make any big promises until you have had more time to educate yourself about polyamory. Ask questions. Vet him.

It's ok for your starter agreements to be "Let's take it one date at a time; no big promises. We see each other X times a week and text/call Y times a week." See how that goes for a while.

Galagirl
 
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We text regularly & have established he does need reminders about the turn-around times with texting. But with his work changes we have a routine. l feel less fearful about spontaneously calling him.

I think the long periods of not seeing each other has added to the intensity as he adapts to his new schedules. So it may serve its purpose to slow us down. Hopefully we will drop to a smooth cruise. He is both affectionate & expressive in words & actions. We are flying on NRE.

I'd love to be considered a Primary-Secondary. For now, we just enjoying each other's company.
 
I'd love to be considered a Primary-Secondary. For now, we just enjoying each other's company.
Galagirl was asking if there was any chance of you becoming an actual co-primary with his wife. There is this thing called hierarchical polyamory, where a person who is dating, but has a primary, tells new dating partners that the established partner will always "come first." Maybe you'd be fine with that, as long as your rights were respected. Maybe you enjoy being "solo poly," having your own place, having more than one partner, just being free and independent. Or maybe this guy, whom you barely know, will always be too busy to give you enough time and pleasure, and you will find one other person who is more appropriate as a primary or nesting partner for you.

If I'd only had a couple dates with someone, I wouldn't be jumping the gun and even asking if there was a chance I could become a co-primary just yet (especially if we were both new to poly, still learning). It can take over a year of dating to see if someone is long-term compatible and has potential to be a reliable partner. I wouldn't suggest I was a candidate to become another primary of his, because, outside of NRE, I don't even know how I feel about him yet. It's fun now, probably sexy, intoxicating. But he could turn out to be a jerk, unreliable, annoying, creepy, or his partner could get cold feet and veto you, or he could move away for work, or you could, etc.
 
Being new to poly, all of your words are helpful. I don't like the idea that the main nester can tell me my her needs come first. l guess that's why l might be considered a secondary, as it's still early days. Perhaps my perception is narrow with wanting to just be with him, as l am asking to be included in their decision-making with schedules.

I don't want to beg for scraps. He has a full household, crazy shift work. l might be left out. He says his intention is to fulfill my needs. It's been about two months. We've texted, had phone chats & seen each other twice. It doesn't look promising.

I've got stresses of my own & don't want to add anymore anxiety my way.

A year to establish if he is worth long-term investment. He seems sincere.

Intention doesn't always equal action. I've been overwhelmed by words of love & devotion.

Now l have to see them played out in real life. What else can l do? At the same time, l have thought about walking away now.
 
I don't like the idea that the main nester can tell me my her needs come first.
No, your metamour, the partner of your partner, wouldn't be telling you that. It would be an agreement between your bf and her. He would be the one scheduling you in a way that put her and his family first. First he'd meet their needs and wants, then yours. If he can meet your needs and satisfy you in that way, you might feel fine. But there would come a point where you couldn't get any closer or more important, or fully co-equal with his established partner, IF they are hierarchical.
l guess that's why l might be considered a secondary, as it's still early days.
Just as in monogamy, 2 dates and some texting and phone calls does not guarantee a long-term relationship. Give it time. Even monogamists don't "make things official" after only 2 dates (usually!)

He may be a perfectly lovely man, and be in NRE with you, really want to explore a relationship with you, but just not have the time, or the full consent of his partner to see you as often as he'd like.
Perhaps my perception is narrow with wanting to just be with him, as l am asking to be included in their decision-making with schedules.

I don't want to beg for scraps. He has a full household, crazy shift work. l might be left out. He says his intention is to fulfill my needs. It's been about two months. We've texted, had phone chats & seen each other twice. It doesn't look promising.

I've got stresses of my own & don't want to add any more anxiety my way.

A year to establish if he is worth long-term investment. He seems sincere.

Intention doesn't always equal action. I've been overwhelmed by words of love & devotion.

Now l have to see them played out in real life. What else can l do? At the same time, l have thought about walking away now.
It's up to you. You're there.

Here is a similar experience I had. I once had like three or four dates with a lovely man who was poly. But he got married to his poly wife just before we met. (We'd been texting a few weeks.) He had custody of one young child from his former marriage, and visitation with his two teenagers. His new wife had two young children full time. She then got pregnant with his child. Added to this, he had a full time job, played tennis (took part in tournaments), and did volunteer work. Also, he lived 40 minutes away.

Nonetheless (or because of his cool, interesting life) he was an awesome guy. We were really taken with each other. I reserved judgment until after our third date, his wife got pregnant. On our next date, I told him he needed to devote himself to her and the baby (and the other young children). I said once the baby was 6-8 months or so, I'd happily reconsider. He was hurt, but agreed to stay away. We continued texting. We were just about to resume dating (when the baby did hit that age), when the pandemic hit, and we fell out of touch. sigh... I did text him after vaxes were available, but I didn't sense much interest after all that time, so I just let him fully go.

Luckily another guy who had much more time for me (Aries, now my bf of three plus years) came along. It's all been smooth sailing, pretty much, basically just bliss.
 
Your experience is similar. He has custody of 3 daughters under the age of 9. His partner has an adult son. They share a house.

He just resigned from working 2 jobs (working over 72hrs) to one. He envisioned & planned with her to create time to do other things like opening up to meeting new partners, he much like a hinge. She is dedicating time to one & he is doing the same.

They both do support work, so l have asked if l can be involved in their timetabling. They obviously have a system.

I don't expect to get the attention she receives, but l like to think he will put in the necessary focus to tend to my needs, as it's early days.

Can l ask about about hierarchy? E.g., whether she can veto me?

We seem to have some reasonable rapport.

I am not closed off to the idea of meeting someone else who could give me the necessary time. My online dating history is like a battlefield. l have two good relationships (monog). Thus far it's been fruitless. l looked to poly as an alternate path to finding love. If l could find two men, that would be blissful. As Kile due to his primary life, wouldn't be able to give me great deal of time, then if he can fulfill my needs that would certainly be great. He keeps professing that he'll meet my needs. Unless he thinks my needs are manageable & small. We shall see.

I found him engaging, as it's been a challenge finding someone who maintains a decent conversation. I am not getting younger & dislike wasting time. If Kile & l can grow this relationship, that will be great. Maybe it doesnt have to be forever.

Thanks, Mags. I will keep reading & listening to poly material. You met Aries. My situation may not hopeless.

Warmest regards,
Tania
 
I don't like the idea that the main nester can tell me my her needs come first.

To me, right now, you and Kyle are two are potentials who are just getting to know each other in the early stages of dating. You have not agreed to anything yet.

If he's telling you that he practices primary-secondary, HE is telling you that he will tend to his NP first, you second, if you two decide to continue and "make it official." You might be ok with that if it meets your needs. But you might not be.

During this "getting to know you" time, you might ask more questions. Is this primary-secondary thing just to start out, or all he can ever offer? Is there the possibility of changing to co-primary over time? Did he give her veto power? Do they have other agreements that might affect you? How much time and energy does he have for a relationship with you?

You you are the one there. Do your due diligence as you vet him.

I've got stresses of my own & don't want to add anymore anxiety my way.

A year to establish if he is worth long-term investment. He seems sincere.

Intention doesn't always equal action. I've been overwhelmed by words of love & devotion. Now l have to see them played out in real life. What else can l do? At the same time, l have thought about walking away.

Only you can answer all that.

  • If you feel like trying this on for a year before making any final decision.
  • Or if this is just too stressful/anxiety-provoking already and you'd rather bow out now.
Maybe you choose to split the difference and give it 6 months. It's all up to you. YOU get to decide what you are and are not up for.

Galagirl
 
Thanks, Galagirl. These are the questions l have to ask. I am very grateful for the vetting questions. I think l've told myself its polyfidelity. But what does that really mean? That's what he said but didn't give it that title. He said, "We limit it to one partner each outside of each other to ensure we pay proper attention to the people we adore. We don't talk about private things unless we are allowed to by the other partner, trust is important especially in our type of relationship."
 
We have a glossary in Golden Nuggets.


Polyfidelity (coined by the Kerista commune): a group in which all partners are primary to all other partners; there is sexual fidelity in the group; shared intent of a lifelong run together; more primary partners can be added with everyone's consent.

It sounds like Kile and his wife have decided they only have time or energy for each other and one other partner each. But it may not be actual polyfidelity, because, while they only want two partners each, those partners might be free to also date whoever else they want. Kile's wife's bf, say, can date her and whoever else he wants. And while you date Kile, you don't need your other dating potentials to be vetted or approved of by Kile and his wife. You have autonomy.

Not sharing TMI between partners is a fine idea. Each dyad in a poly network deserves its own privacy. That is unrelated to the ideas of polyfidelity or an open relationship.
 
I believe you are right. With Kile & wife having a limited capacity to love one other each. That does not limit me. Though this will have to be clarified incoming conversations.
Please know anything you have shared has improved my experience with poly. Thank you Mags.
 
We limit it to one partner each outside of each other to ensure we pay proper attention to the people we adore. We don't talk about private things unless we are allowed to by the other partner, trust is important especially in our type of relationship."
I wouldn't consider that poly fidelity. It's more like an agreement to be saturated at two each.....and that's their agreement. They didn't tell you that you couldn't see others, right? If they told you that you couldn't see others then it would be closed, or if you all agreed together that there would be no outside dating, hence poly fidelity.
 
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