V, but my hinge is ... not... poly?

[Propast]

As I mentioned in my introduction, I've run into some trouble and could use an ear, a shoulder, even some wisdom.

We've been living as a male-female-male V for 5 years, my wife S is the hinge and our good friend D is the other arm. We hadn't been open before, we began as a fun sexual triad, but changed over to a V when their feelings deepened. Changing to the V was difficult for me and against my wishes at the time ("That wasn't in the plan!", hah, like you can plan these things), but with communication and love we eventually worked things out and found a good stability.

S has since struggled with the idea that I (or D) might someday also take a lover, something that became theoretically possible when we became a V. We'll sometimes discuss someone I'm curious about, but I haven't pressed the issue before. She's set boundaries, for instance: "No one from this social scene", or "T's behavior makes me uncomfortable, she's off-limits". No problem there.

At one point she told me clearly, "If you ever do, just make sure I never learn about it." Wow. A 'dont ask dont tell' policy? No way, that's not how we got so far as we did.

Well, it finally happened. I'd been friends with C for about a year and was continually more fascinated and the friendship kept deepening. I discussed her a bit with S, and she never got blacklisted. They know each other, but aren't particularly close. Plus I'm feeling strong and confident with our V, it seems healthier than ever.

So I finally got up the nerve, heart pounding like crazy, and asked C out. Botched it but eventually got it sorted out . C is interested, yay! Major good feelings inside, looking forward to this.

S comes home from a weekend trip with D. I let her know what I've got cooking. She's furious. End of good feelings. I'll skip the major jealousy, fights, the 2-month road back to health and an even keel. Long story short, this makes S realize that she really can't share me with anyone.

Now I'm left in a tough spot with a lot of questions.

I definitely never signed up to be the arm of a closed V. I feel like a bad-guy for wanting this, but if we aren't going to be mono then I want the rights to take another lover. Any thoughts on... survival as the arm of a closed V? ... gently helping her let go of her fear/possessiveness?

I sometimes want to retaliate, force us back to mono, cut D out of our lives. "If I can't, you can't!" This feeling never survives me actually sitting down and talking to D: he's a human being not an enemy, he's a good friend that I want to KEEP in my life. But it's there, a nasty hurt-back feeling. Any thoughts on... smoothing this out in myself? ... how to ethically handle it if I can't live with him anymore?

I really feel bad that I've lost C as a good friend, seeing C even in friendship mode raises major friction. This is one boundary that I will hold strong on: Neither C nor I did anything wrong here - forcing me to abandon my friendship while S keeps her lover is a mark of deep disrespect to me. I'm going to work on that this week.

 

[Honestheart]

As I mentioned in my introduction,

I definitely never signed up to be the arm of a closed V. I feel like a bad-guy for wanting this, but if we aren't going to be mono then I want the rights to take another lover. Any thoughts on... survival as the arm of a closed V? ... gently helping her let go of her fear/possessiveness?

I really feel bad that I've lost C as a good friend, seeing C even in friendship mode raises major friction. This is one boundary that I will hold strong on: Neither C nor I did anything wrong here - forcing me to abandon my friendship while S keeps her lover is a mark of deep disrespect to me. I'm going to work on that this week.

I really don't know what to say other then...i truly honestly feel for you and your partners....
i had this happen with my last relationship.
all i can say is, when i was face with this same issue i asked my SO "what do YOU want" and then we talked it out... it is important to think of all three of you ... we ended up breaking up in the end. but thats because of other issues that came up too...
as for the cutting of friendship while the other still has a lover, yes.... again from personal experience with the same thing on my side... i agree that is not only disrespectful but cruel. unless there has been sum kind of boundary crossed (such as cheating) then yes...it is quite cruel and disrespectful to rip that friendship away.... but then again
maybe that what is needed? i am sorry i'm also going to play devils advocate here... do u think your SO might possible not be possessive but, is finding that emotionally can only share you with only one other person?

good luck to you all... my deepest hopes you can work thru this tangle!

 

[Irena]

If I may... it sounds like you did do a teeny thing wrong, in asking C out before you'd gotten your primary partner's full go-ahead. From what you've written, it sounds like S has never gotten comfortable with the idea of your seeing someone else, and from her perspective it might look as though you used her being out of town to go behind her back and do something she wasn't okay with.

Before I sound like I'm on the attack here, let me say that I'm almost 100% on your side. An open relationship of any kind should be at least theoretically open both ways, unless both partners are truly comfortable and happy with a different understanding.

BUT that's not to say that "being in a V" is all you need before having a fully-developed, open-on-all-sides poly arrangement. It sounds as if you jumped straight into the mindset of, "we're poly now, so I can have other partners" without working through S's feelings about that first. That's the wrong way around. For success in polyamory (or in whatever) you need to start by figuring out what each person's needs and comfort levels are, dig deep to solve any serious conflicts in those, and then express your labels and boundaries.

Also, just as a matter of courtesy, I would ALWAYS expect my bf to tell me he was planning to ask someone else out before he asked her. That's part of being primary, to me (I'd be curious to see if anyone else here, as a primary, feels differently.) That way we could talk through any hesitancies or insecurities I had... or, more likely, I could give him a pep talk and/or advice on how to best approach her. (Or, you know, some of both.)

So, I wouldn't say you made a mistake in getting involved with her or pursuing a relationship, but I do think you could have approached it better, in a way that made S feel more reassured that she would still come first with you.

Now, going forward: I think you need to separate your (justified) resentments and feelings of unfairness from your desires for the shape of your life. Yes, it's totally unfair: you adjusted to her taking a lover, you overcame your initial discomfort and developed a close, stable family with your wife and D; she failed to do the same thing for you. But, like they tell us when we're kids, life isn't fair. Since I've grown up, I've amended that to, "Life isn't fair, but it can be happy." The sooner you can let go of what would be fair and focus your attention on what would help you be happy, the better this process will go.

Ideally, your wife will realize (with as much communication from you as is needed to get the point across) that she owes it to you to overcome whatever issues are keeping her from feeling able to share you. Neither of you should expect an overnight change, but it should be something she can work toward. If she can't or won't do that, then you have to figure out what would make you happy (or least unhappy): a) being with her and D in the current, unfair arrangement; b) being with her but cutting D out of your lives; or c) walking away from them both. Only you can answer that. Hopefully she will see what an awful choice that would be for you, and work on her own growth so as to make it unnecessary.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

5 years of living with her two men..I don't see how she can really have an issue with either of you finding some one. You're part of a relationship, not a harem.
DADT is as good as saying "I can't handle reality" in my opinion.
Good for the gander, good for the goose.

 

[redpepper]

I agree with Irena about seemingly going behind her back at first and not letting her know of your crush... was she angry because she didn't want to know about you finding love elsewhere? Or was it other reasons? She did say she didn't want to know after all.... not the best idea on her part, but...

I would wonder what is going on for her that she is lacking in confidence. What has gone on that she is so fearful of you finding another love. All questions to ask and get talking about. All of you. In our Vee we talk about everything and I mean everything. If we didn't then this sort of imbalance would occur.

Are you kidding! I would love to hold up with me and my two men all cozy, no chance of anyone else coming in. I don't want the change, I don't want the drama and emotional upheaval, I want them and only them to have to talk about (okay, Derby too, among other loves,,,, but all mine! )

Reality sucks! It's just not an option and I hope I never fall into such complacency as this.... there is no such thing as a *poly princess.* Believe me there isn't for long anyway... it all comes crashing down to the reality of, we are all people who have needs, and a right to freedom, respect and compassion... time for her to get on board and live in the real poly world (poor dear )

I hope your woman starts catching up. Maybe she should do some reading on here, ask her own questions... start her own process, because if she doesn't then she will eventually lose you and the world she loves.... it just can't ever stay the same. Ever. Life is just not like that.

 

[Propast]

Thanks and good to hear from you all on this. My one IRL friend I have to discuss with is good at forcing me to discover what I want and what my boundaries are, but doesn't really have poly experience. Your ideas and approaches and perspectives are valuable.

From Irene: If I may... it sounds like you did do a teeny thing wrong, in asking C out before you'd gotten your primary partner's full go-ahead. From what you've written, it sounds like S has never gotten comfortable with the idea of your seeing someone else, and from her perspective it might look as though you used her being out of town to go behind her back and do something she wasn't okay with.

It is one of the things S got really mad about. I have mixed feelings about this. At the time and considering that S was aware and C wasn't "blacklisted", it felt reasonable to make sure C would even consider it before pushing the isusue with S. In retrospect YES I agree, I should have approached it the other way, dealt with my partner's feelings first.

What I can learn from this (and Irene & Redpeppers reinforcement of that) is that I really need to clear up with my partner before I go approach C to resume friendship. You have saved me from a bad potential slip this week, I was hoping to meet up with C for the first time in a month, for some casual friend/talk time. This would have turned into an after-the-fact fight with S, a "Well you can't cut me off from my friends!" argument rather than a "How can I make this acceptable to you?" talk. So thanks.

From Redpepper: was she angry because she didn't want to know about you finding love elsewhere? Or was it other reasons? ... I would wonder what is going on for her that she is lacking in confidence. What has gone on that she is so fearful of you finding another love.

A lot of anger came out, and like a hydra there were always more heads. Part of it was as discussed above. Another big part of it was a reaction to fear: things were now changing, fear that I was leaving her for another, fear of going through the painful upheaval again, fear of losing D or me over this. Another (I think) was guilt at her own reaction: when push came to shove, she realizes she can't share me and feels bad about doing this to me.

I had to spend a lot of time listening, and then clearly reinforcing that I wasn't going anywhere, that she is my partner. When that settled, I had to also get clear and remind her that while I'm flexible I'm not her sub, I will figure out my boundaries and needs and stick to them. Still working on that one.

I'll follow up with her on the "why so fearful" question in future talks. I have some ideas, but it's a good idea to help her get them out in the open.

From Irene: "Life isn't fair, but it can be happy." The sooner you can let go of what would be fair and focus your attention on what would help you be happy, the better this process will go.

I agree. I'm trying to learn if I can be happy and feel my needs are met in this closed V. I may not need balance in the sense that "I have equal rights", but simply balance in the sense that "the paybacks for this life are worth the costs over the longterm" (there are emotional costs to having your partner love another! hope that's okay to say on a poly forum)

We've identified that we weren't as strong as we thought: there were little jealousies, lack of attention, poor communication that were creeping in. This was causing a growing feeling of imbalance. Because we tend to overthink and talk ourselves into downward spirals, we're taking time to just ENJOY life and time together again. (and only have serious talks about once a week) This summer is a good time to focus on us as a couple, because incompatible travel schedules mean D is apart from us for long stretches.

I'm kind of hoping that as part of this strengthening and rebuilding, we can figure out a way to make her comfortable with opening the V. But I don't expect it, so main priority is deciding if I can live in the closed V.

D is now back in town with us for two weeks, so it's a good time to put all this to a test. We're planning our time better, to make sure we all get the 2-person, 3-person, and alone time we need. Hope it works. It felt good hanging out with him last night. (Still, and I hate to say this, part of me is really scared.)

 

[AutumnalTone]

S comes home from a weekend trip with D. I let her know what I've got cooking. She's furious. End of good feelings. I'll skip the major jealousy, fights, the 2-month road back to health and an even keel. Long story short, this makes S realize that she really can't share me with anyone.

Call me a hardass on this sort of thing, if you will. My response to such is simple and direct: Oh, hell, no! Homey don't play those games. Anybody wants to try that sort of disrespectful shit on me is gone in short order.

If somebody chooses to be mono in a poly tangle, that's cool. Nobody gets to decide that for anybody besides him- or herself, however, and to even attempt it is a sign of gross disrespect for the other person.

 

[Irena]

I'm trying to learn if I can be happy and feel my needs are met in this closed V. I may not need balance in the sense that "I have equal rights", but simply balance in the sense that "the paybacks for this life are worth the costs over the longterm" (there are emotional costs to having your partner love another! hope that's okay to say on a poly forum)

I hear that! And I don't imagine most people here will say different I was having a rough time with that earlier this week... having to share my partner's time and attention and not having anywhere else to go myself. I hope your wife is able to recognize that she's in danger of losing you by keeping you monogamous, even more than by letting you explore other relationships, and is motivated to work on her stuff.

It sounds like you're able to be patient, understanding, and non-defensive, which is awesome. I hope things work out for all three of you!

 

[saudade]

Weighing in

Hey, and welcome! You're right, it does sound like you're in a predicament. As a few others have said on here, it also sounds like you have the resources you'll need to navigate it-- I hope your whole vee does too.

Quote:From Irene: If I may... it sounds like you did do a teeny thing wrong, in asking C out before you'd gotten your primary partner's full go-ahead. From what you've written, it sounds like S has never gotten comfortable with the idea of your seeing someone else, and from her perspective it might look as though you used her being out of town to go behind her back and do something she wasn't okay with.

It is one of the things S got really mad about. I have mixed feelings about this. At the time and considering that S was aware and C wasn't "blacklisted", it felt reasonable to make sure C would even consider it before pushing the isusue with S. In retrospect YES I agree, I should have approached it the other way, dealt with my partner's feelings first.

I've been in your shoes before. It's a hard line to navigate: knowing your existing partner is going to really struggle, and wanting to make sure the fight is worth having before bringing it up. Regardless of how things go with C, you and S might want to have a talk (once things calm down) about how to scope out someone you're interested in, and what protocol you'd both be comfortable with... If you've found a prospective partner once, it's unlikely that it'll never happen again.

I'll follow up with her on the "why so fearful" question in future talks. I have some ideas, but it's a good idea to help her get them out in the open.

A word of caution (albeit one you might not need): While you may very well know every single reason that S is feeling afraid, it's just as possible that she has some concerns that haven't occurred to you. Keep an open mind, and try not to goad her into particular confessions that may or may not be accurate, and be aware that there may be something else entirely that she'll need to get off her chest.

I agree. I'm trying to learn if I can be happy and feel my needs are met in this closed V. I may not need balance in the sense that "I have equal rights", but simply balance in the sense that "the paybacks for this life are worth the costs over the longterm" (there are emotional costs to having your partner love another! hope that's okay to say on a poly forum)

Something I've been thinking about a lot lately is the difference between fairness and equality. I have several loves (the count waffles between two and five, depending on how you do the math), all of whom live with me or will very soon (we're cohousing/communing/cooperatively living, in the poor, recent-college-graduate sense), and every relationship has its own dynamic. Treating every single person 'equally' doesn't make sense, and isn't fair to them or me or the needs of our relationships and ourselves. Navigating that line is so difficult!

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with admitting on here that there are emotional costs to poly. They are obvious enough that many monos profess that they couldn't do poly, and the quickest glance at thread titles on here can only confirm that. (That said, I adore being poly and won't change my orientation for anyone. For me, the benefits far outweigh the risks.)

I'm sure there's more to be said, but I'll try not to say it. Good luck, and keep posting-- we're here.

In cahoots,
~Saudade

 

[redpepper]

We've identified that we weren't as strong as we thought: there were little jealousies, lack of attention, poor communication that were creeping in. This was causing a growing feeling of imbalance. Because we tend to overthink and talk ourselves into downward spirals, we're taking time to just ENJOY life and time together again.

Oh how i get this. It may be that this is all that is going on and a balanced needs to be established again. Nothing like a new lover for someone to bring up all the old questions, concerns and doubts... well, get the work done and see where it heads to. If nothing comes of this new interest of yours I would think that at least your vee will be stronger for it.

It sounds like your lady is back in the game and sitting up and noticing your seriousness on this. I'm glad some reassurances have helped. It sounds like more talk is coming in the future and that more connection and bond will be established in doing so. Happy times...hard, but so necessary.

 

[rpcrazy]

I'm relatively new to this particular side of relationships...but here's something I've learned.

My g/f is very hard headed. She presents double standards out the ying-yang, and not even on purpose, i think it's just subconscious. As someone who is also very strong-willed and hard-headed, i was first very bewildered by her blatant hypocrisy. It made me so upset, I would yell, she would get scared, and we would entangle ourselves in circular arguments. However, now I've learned a technique to cope with it.

I've learned that whenever you feel injustice, it must be made known and dealt with immediately(same with all emotions really ). After your feelings are made known, it is important to figure what you want out of the situation, and appropriately deal with it; either by compromise, tolerated stalemate(agree to differ), or concession & apology by/for either side. In other words, you either let it go, both of you make some compromise, you both agree to disagree and the line of discussion ends, or one of you apologizes.

Putting myself in your situation I would be feeling two things.

1. Regret for not making my conditions fully known before the V happened, including the desire to be open to other people and NOT a closed V.
2. Extreme Injustice for not being to able to be as open as my partner.

I honestly don't even know how you can't look that situation and think, "wtf?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/...ontrolling-behavior-in-love-relationships.htm
And to help control the controlling behavior
http://www.familyresource.com/lifes...olling-behavior-how-do-you-attempt-to-control

 

[redpepper]

In other words, you either let it go, both of you make some compromise, you both agree to disagree and the line of discussion ends, or one of you apologizes.

I just tried to find a post i wrote on compromise... i could find it. I wanted to just say that i don't think we should any of us compromise. i think that indicates that we are settling for something because what we really need is not available to us. i don't stop at a compromise and don't expect that my loves would to. If I am settling for something temporarily then that is different, but to settle indefinitely is just not comfortable or going to work for me. More work needs doing until everyone concerned is satisfied with the result and has their needs met. Sometimes that means I need to adjust my ideas and figure out different ways of looking at something or finding satisfaction in giving. I need to work towards the end result as much as anyone else. I would expect the same. To me it seems that if a compromise is happening then the real root of the needs is not being addressed and we need to dig deeper to find it.

 

[Propast]

It sounds like you're able to be patient, understanding, and non-defensive, which is awesome. I hope things work out for all three of you!

I should point out right away that I'm no saint. I've had my fair share of meltdowns, unfairnesses and hypocrisy over the years we've been together and in the last two months of hard work. I also panic and despair sometimes, fantasizing about (and even planning) moving out. It helps lately that I'm trying to approach this in a very conscious manner: studying techniques, reading your experiences, taking time to think about myself and S and D. These are all helping. And when I sit down to write to you, its usually after I've done some processing so it's nice and clean.

I asked S about seeing C again as a friend, asking what it would take to make her comfortable. Immediate panic reaction from S. Why, why do I want to see her again, why so soon, why ever, why do I need to do this to her? This is going to be hard to unravel. What did I manage to learn during the following talk?

The title of this post is pretty much right.

Paraphrased from talk with S: I don't feel polyamorous. I feel monogamous... bigamous I guess, as in two

No need to comment on that again, just sharing her mindset.

She needs to find her her own resources
She does not like internet forums, we haven't found local poly groups for her to talk to, and the recommended book I've been reading (The Ethical Slut) really rubs here the wrong way as the focus so far is heavily on the sexual side. Can anyone recommend a poly book that focuses on the relationship side?
(From her side, she is trying to locate a counselor or therapist that would be competent to handle this kind of thing. I'll send her the thread on counselors)

S always saw C as a threat.
Okay, I'm a clueless fucking male and I didn't see this. Ever since I've known C, S has been scared. She's tried to put it away, to become friends, to figure it out. In fact, she's seen other friends of mine as threats.

This opened the door to the interesting question: why did/do you feel threatened? First answer in her head was because we already didn't have enough time together (Luckily, we are already working hard on that one), and she doesn't want me to get all my time pulled away by another woman. Okay, that's something we can work with! I left the "Threat" question open for followup another time, we'd already been through the ringer quite a bit.

S doesn't trust C, and I don't think she really trusts me to know / control my own emotions.
S thinks C will try to win me over in some slow sneaky way. Again, I'm a clueless male, but I don't really think so: when I asked her if she'd be interested in something with me, she immediately shot me down because "I thought you were married!" (and luckily stayed a friend and I got a chance later to clarify). S also thinks I've 'crossed a line' and can't go back to thinking about this woman as just a friend.

I really think it would help if the two of them talked, but that's unlikely to happen.

I've agreed to hold off on contact for a while (easy agreement to make, since in 8 days we go to America for 3 weeks), but I'm worried even that won't be enough. What happens to my standing by principles if the hackles keep going up so strongly over this issue?
(One possible answer to my own question: You fool. The panic reactions are a subconscious attempt to control you. Stop being so understanding. Tear off the band-aid, force the issue, and she'll need to deal with it)

@rpcrazy: Our talks also go through tough circles before we reach the center important bits (not usually real yelling, luckily) Thanks for the tips, I'll try to digest them.

On the positive side, D is back in town. We've all been spending lots of time together and it feels pretty good to be friends again. I got melancholy at end of night, couldn't track down why, probably a reminder to take my personal space. Okay forums, thanks for letting me get all that out, I'm now off to sleep.

 

[redpepper]

Might I suggest you look at the book recommendation thread that is a sticky? I don't read but I offered the "conscious loving" book to Mono who really enjoyed it. I leean more from peoples experiences rather than someone elses theory. That's what I like about here.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

If I may... it sounds like you did do a teeny thing wrong, in asking C out before you'd gotten your primary partner's full go-ahead. From what you've written, it sounds like S has never gotten comfortable with the idea of your seeing someone else, and from her perspective it might look as though you used her being out of town to go behind her back and do something she wasn't okay with.

As I understand it, S asked for a DADT, and pro built a friendship with C under the impression that's what S wanted. But HE was not comfortable with DADT, so before he actually went on a date, fell in love, had sex with C, he checked in with S.

If S had known about C when things were building, and you probably had the thought long before you asked her out, she would have time to deal with the idea before it became an immediate situation.

I just tried to find a post i wrote on compromise... i could find it. I wanted to just say that i don't think we should any of us compromise. i think that indicates that we are settling for something because what we really need is not available to us.

Do you draw the line in love, or is that an overall rule? There are so many situations in our lives where compromise is necessary, where we both want complete opposites on a given issue. Like when we just bought dh an RV to live in for work, and he wanted the 20K one that's 5 years old, and I wanted to spend only cash we had on hand, so we got one that wiped out our rainy day fund but didn't require a loan and still had the amenities he needs.

 

[rpcrazy]

just a quick addition
compromise is necessary in certain situations. Like all aspects of life, and relationships, everything is basically situational

 

[redpepper]

To me compromise is something I do that leads to recentment. If I can't find it in my heart to have compersion and good feelings about a situation then I've compromised and it still needs to be looked at in order to find a balance. Yes it sounds like you compromised Schrodner, but to me anything to do with money is a compromisable. Anything to do with feelings and emotions in a poly situation should not be. There should never be any twinge of "I've given something up." It just builds and becomes larger than it need be in my experience. Unless its temporary and a work in progress.

 

[jkelly]

I feel monogamous... bigamous I guess, as in two

I suspect that if enough time goes by, y'all will need to start looking up some more numbers in Latin. What I mean is that I doubt that there is anything magical about the number 'two'.

I sometimes want to retaliate, force us back to mono, cut D out of our lives. "If I can't, you can't!" This feeling never survives me actually sitting down and talking to D: he's a human being not an enemy, he's a good friend that I want to KEEP in my life. But it's there, a nasty hurt-back feeling. Any thoughts on... smoothing this out in myself? ... how to ethically handle it if I can't live with him anymore?

Don't indulge this feeling. None of this is about D, he doesn't deserve to have his friend demand that his lover break his heart over her jealousy issues, and there's certainly nothing ethical about that idea.

Have you figured out what you want and need from your relationships? The only clear thing I get from your posts is that you dislike the idea of DADT so much that you weren't willing to abide by it. Some questions:

• Do you have any reason to believe that if you do pursue things with C that your feelings for S won't change drastically?
  
• Do you really want to be in poly- relationships, or is this something that you're doing because you unexpectedly found yourself in one?
  
• If S is clearly never going to get to a place where she is comfortable with you having another partner, would you stay in a relationship with her?
  
• Now that S has used that veto you gave her when it actually matters, do you still think that you want her to have a veto?
  
• S is pretty clearly going through some major jealousy issues. What can you offer her that makes it worth the work? Does she understand what you get out of her having the relationship she has with D?

Y'know, something is going on with S that is leading her to react really badly; she shouldn't "panic" at the thought of you having a friend that you're romantically interested in, she shouldn't be thinking of any of your friends as "threats", and these conversations in general shouldn't be anywhere near this difficult. So what can you do that would make things feel safer for her? Perhaps D might have some insight, or could even serve as a mediator for the harder conversations.

 

[Thunderlizard]

Let me just levy my vote on the side of those who say DADT is not poly, and not just.
And on the side of those who say that your lady needs to realize that she's had her cake and been eating it too for quite some time.. she's got to understand that you may have outside interests and, as long as she's playing the game, she will have to accept them.
The whole "it's ok for me to do it, but not for you" thing just doesn't fly with me. Either she's poly, or she's not. If she's not, then she's NOT.. and that means bye-bye boyfriend, hello monogamy. This sort of hypocritical behavior infuriates me.
And for those who condemn Propast for not getting things ok'd before the first date... well, S had specified "DADT".. Pro's mistake was, apparently, telling.. even though we all know that it was probably a relationship-saving move.
S is maintaining a double standard in several ways.. double standards rarely produce positive results. No, life is not "fair".. but successful poly relationships are "equitable", and take into account the feelings/needs/wants of all parties.
Short form? Either it's a poly relationship, or it's not a poly relationship. In the end, no matter how fond of D either one of them is, unless it develops into a full triad, Pro's going to end up angry and hurt again. Poly is give and take..S might just have to step a bit out of the comfort zone if she wants to keep what she has.
Hell, there are those that might call it cuckholding instead of poly, as it sits.

 

[HappiestManAlive]

+ another to the list of "it's all well and kind of you to recognize a possible mistake yu made, but she's WAAAY out of bounds". If what we're hearing is the whole story as it relates to the C situation, then she needs "a check up from th neck up".

We've identified that we weren't as strong as we thought: there were little jealousies, lack of attention, poor communication that were creeping in.

Oh yeah, lol. Violet and I have one of the most stable and solid relationships I've ever seen, much less experienced. And we run into this almost monthly. Had a real tough one just yesterday. So far, we always get it resolved and we're always better off for it.