Was I unreasonable?

N

navigatingnewwaters

New member
It has been a while since I posted. My h and I have a one-sided open relationship. He currently has sex regularly with someone, but doesn't have a girlfriend at the moment. I am at the point where I am completely at peace with him being sexually active with other people. My utmost goal is for us both to be true to ourselves and happy, and if this is what he needs, I fully support him.

Our own relationship is now sexless, as partway through the journey I discovered that I didn't want to be sexually active with someone who was sexually active with others. (I may have some work to do on this and I intend to.) I also discovered that I don't trust him sexually due to our own history, and difficulties I have had with holding my boundaries. This hurt him a great deal. He felt I was acting in retaliation to him being sexually active with others. I honestly don't think it was. I just have unpacked a great deal of stuff on this journey.

We got through that, and I have again come up against something he feels is retaliation. I asked tonight if he would consider me having the same freedom as he has been afforded. I reassured him I was not looking, I had no male attention offered to me, and I didn't intend to act on the freedom in any way, shape or form, but I would like it to be a possibility in the future.

He has basically spun out and said that he took 18 months of careful consideration of my feelings, and he expected the same from me, and if I didn't want it, why was I asking? And therefore it must be either something I want, or a form of retaliation.

Am I being blind to my own behaviour?
 
No. He's being a hypocrite.
 
I'm going to be honest.

Of course an enforced one-sided open relationship is unreasonable. But, I think people get to this place when they try and use non-monogamy to patch up a broken relationship.

I kind of see why someone (your husband) would be upset by the thought of you having a sexless marriage with them, but you wanting sex with other people. I know he's having sex with other people, but I think, I know that I couldn't be in a perfectly ethical polyamorous relationship where my partner didn't want or couldn't have sex with me, but could with others. My sex life with others would be irrelevant. So I think that's an unreasonable ask on your part.

But I guess that your desire for sex with him waned in part due to his (poor) behaviour. Thus we are back to it being "his fault" the marriage is where it is.

And this goes back to the beginning. This is what happens when people use non-monogamy when they should probably just split up.
 
Alternatively, I don't think it's an unreasonable ask (all or almost all sex outsourced of the marriage) because it's the norm in my polycule. It's also a huge mindset shift and does involve grieving the loss of something that was once so important, and that can take time.

So tell him this is his notice period. Perhaps give him 18 months lead in that he brought up regarding his opening on his side.

Or perhaps return to that separation plan so you can truly move on from this relationship and (hopefully) get to find someone else who you want and who wants you in entirety.
 
You said this on May 29:

Food for thought. I think we are in a stage of self-discovery for us both. I think we both had roles to play in our existing relationship that I am really just starting to understand. I am not sure polyamory is the best way forward right now, as I think there is a lot of personal growth to be done on both sides before we can truly offer what we need to to each other. (Or not. Perhaps parting is still the best way forward.)

I guess in a lot of ways I have learnt that it is not just adjusting from a monogamous relationship to polyamory that is my biggest challenge.

For him, I think he still believes and identifies with loving and being sexually attracted to more than one person. I think that I can grow to accept and perhaps embrace that, over time, while still believing and identifying with monogamy for myself. No matter what relationship structure we are both ultimately after, we need to put the work into ourselves. I need to figure out if I can do that with him by my side, or if I need to do it on my own.

I don't think he can see the full picture of his role in things, but I am not sure I can say that yet of myself either. I am considering if the healthiest option while I take time to examine my shit is to not be in a relationship at all, and only come back to it (this relationship or another) when I have a clearer understanding of how and who I am.
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And you also mentioned in your earlier thread that you two were not in love with each other anymore. Yet, hubs wanted to do polyamory, implying that he did love you, and felt able to love others at the same time. Yet, again, he seemed to be more pursuing sex than love.

Your main issue was feeling overwhelmed with childcare (ill teenager) and not having time for yourself, or really, for the relationship, because of being so wrung out. So, you wanted more childcare support from Gee (hubs) and in return, consented to him seeking "love" (sex) elsewhere.

You stopped having sex with him. It seems the attraction died for various understandable reasons.

You were seeing a counselor and trying to understand yourself better. So, in 3 months or so, it sounds like you've gotten your head above water enough to find out that you have the right to have adult relationships with people of your choice, just as he does. If you're both sharing in the childcare, and you are also giving him space to date others, and your attraction for him has died (maybe because you didn't care for how he pressured you to have sex against your will [as he did with his dating partner]), you might someday have the bandwidth to date/have sex with others.

It sounds like your marriage is really evolving. You might look at it having evolved past being lovers, to just being friends and coparents. (Not an uncommon development in long-term relationships, after all.)

Now you recognize a desire in yourself to balance things out, sex- and dating-wise.

Naturally, (selfish) Gee is taken aback. You're maybe the mouse that roared. He doesn't get to decree a full 18 months to get used to this idea, especially if he's not really in love with you anymore, and you're just coparents, at this point, anyway. He might be given some time to sort out his feelings, however. To be determined. Or, you could just design a relationship where he really has no say over whether you date or not.

Is he in therapy, or just you?
 
My utmost goal is for us both to be true to ourselves and happy, and if this is what he needs, I fully support him.
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What do you need to be happy? Does he fully support you in that? Do YOU fully support you in that?

Our own relationship is now sexless, as partway through the journey I discovered that I didn't want to be sexually active with someone who was sexually active with others. (I may have some work to do on this and I intend to.)
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Why? It's ok for you to want YOUR romantic relationships to be how you want, so if you do not want any "overlap" you don't have to "work on it." Just be okay not wanting overlap and wanting monogamy. There's nothing wrong with it.

I also discovered that I don't trust him sexually due to our own history, and difficulties I have had with holding my boundaries.
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Sounds normal to me. You can't trust someone who does untrustworthy behavior and runs right over your personal boundaries. They aren't safe to be with.

This hurt him a great deal.
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WHAT hurts him? That you don't like this? You don't have to.

He felt I was acting in retaliation to him being sexually active with others. I honestly don't think it was. I just have unpacked a great deal of stuff on this journey.
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It sounds like it was about his other poor behaviors and not about him sharing sex with others. But even if it WAS about him having sex with others, and you not wanting overlap, so what? You are allowed to have your own preferences for your relationships. And if it winds up with you two incompatible, I think parting ways as peacefully as possible under the circumstances beats fighting or bending into pretzels.

We got through that, and I have again come up against something he feels is retaliation. I asked tonight if he would consider me having the same freedom as he has been afforded. I reassured him I was not looking, I had no male attention offered to me, and I didn't intend to act on the freedom in any way, shape or form, but I would like it to be a possibility in the future.
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There's your mistake. I'm not into one-sided open. It has to be open on both sides. If you don't feel like dating on your side, it's because YOU don't feel like dating, not like the option doesn't even exist for you. If he can date people, so can you.

He has basically spun out and said that he took 18 months of careful consideration of my feelings, and he expected the same from me, and if I didn't want it, why was I asking? And therefore it must be either something I want, or a form of retaliation.
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He sounds selfish and self-centered. He HAD all that time to think about it -- a poly situation with BOTH of you dating. He just didn't do it. So no, you don't have to do another 18 months snooze tag just because he didn't do his homework. He got too used to you putting him first all the time.

Some people ask for the snooze tag to "work on things" in bad faith. They have no real intention of actually doing the work. They just want to retain access during the extension. They might also be "forever working on it," but never actually arriving, so they never really have to deal with you actually dating WHILE enjoying your services in the meanwhile.

Am I being blind to my own behaviour?
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Yes, you seem blind to the fact that you CAN take up some space here and you CAN stop putting him first all the time. It's okay to attend to YOUR needs. You seem to let your soft feelings for him blind you to his selfishness.

He's also flipping it around on you. Everything is your fault, because you are "retaliating" and whatever else. NOTHING is his responsibility, his poor behavior, etc.

I'm not being mean, okay? To me this sounds like a long dragged-out break-up, mostly because he's happy using you and you are reticent to end it, even though he's not respectful and leaves you like a single parent, but still wants to suck you dry in other ways. :(

The poly part is not great, but it doesn't even matter. If you ignore that part, this is STILL not a healthy relationship when measured against this.


He doesn't want to own it and take personal responsibility. He wants to say you are "retaliating against his other lovers." Well, he can think that, and think wrong things.

The bottom line is YOUR wellness. Rather than spending time correcting his thoughts, I think you could talk to your counselor about life WITHOUT him. What do YOU need to be happy? At this juncture, would you be better off and happier WITHOUT him? It's time to have that talk with your counselor in an individual session.

Galagirl
 
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So, he spent 18 months thinking about your feelings, but apparently never in that time thought “How would I feel if the roles were reversed?" If that’s the case, then I don’t really think he spent a lot of that time thinking about your feelings at all.

If he did put himself in your shoes, he either decided he wouldn’t like it, but decided to go ahead anyway despite that, or he decided he would be okay with it. Either way, if he spent 18 months properly thinking about this and your feelings, he doesn’t need another 18 months to think about the reciprocal arrangement.

As to whether you want it or not, it seems to me that you are not saying you want it, but that you are open to it and want to explore it, that you’re talking to him now, before you’ve made a decision precisely, so he can have some time to adjust to the idea. You’ve not been thinking it over, decided to proceed, found a willing partner and then sprung it on him. I don’t know what else he can expect of you.

As for whether it’s okay to seek sex elsewhere, but not with your husband-- I’m in a different position from you. I am in a 32 year sexless marriage to a woman I recently came to the conclusion is asexual. We are in counselling right now and options are all still open, but I’ve considered the option of poly, or at least some form of ENM. I’ve thought a lot about whether it would be open both ways. And my conclusion is nuanced.

It would have to be open both ways. It wouldn’t be fair otherwise. So my wife would be free to seek relationships outside of our marriage on the same basis as myself.

However, I have come to the conclusion that I would be okay with her having a sexual relationship with someone in addition to me, but not with someone else and yet still not me. It’s not so much about whether she has sex with someone else, but about my understanding of why she doesn’t have sex with me and what that says about our relationship.

As long as I understand she doesn’t want sex at all, with anyone, then I can understand and accommodate that (while it still makes me very sad). However, if she wants sex, just not with me, then it puts our current relationship in a different light. I can live with her rejecting sex. I cannot live with her rejecting sex specifically with me. Some of the purists on here might say I’m being unfair and one-sided. I don’t see it that way, because it’s not about her having other partners, it’s about what happens in our partnership and how I understand it.

I don’t know if that helps you think about your situation. It’s a different scenario, but it’s my conclusion after a lot of thought about one-sided arrangements.
 
Fogul said:
Some of the purists on here might say I’m being unfair and one sided. I don’t see it that way, because it’s not about her having other partners, it’s about what happens in our partnership and how I understand it.
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I don't think people on here (specifically) think like that. I'd say, as a forum, we are pretty much on the same page about understanding your needs and the wisdom of expressing them in a timely fashion. There are few things we all agree on, but I would say this is one of them.

Where we differ on this topic is that some people would genuinely be fine with sex being something they and a partner do with other people, but not with each other.

It's through experience that I know that no sex is a soft limit, and no sex, but sex with other people is a hard limit. I'm quite flexible in blurring the boundaries of relationships and friendships, but I've found that a lack of desire for sexual intimacy keeps things in a friendship/chosen family realm.
 
It would have to be open both ways. It wouldn’t be fair otherwise. So my wife would be free to seek relationships outside of our marriage on the same basis as myself.
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Yup, that's not being one-sided or having a double standard. Both of you can date other people, as well as date each other. It's not a one-sided thing, where only one is "allowed" to date other people.

I can live with her rejecting sex. I cannot live with her rejecting sex specifically with me. Some of the purists on here might say I’m being unfair and one-sided. I don’t see it that way, because it’s not about her having other partners, it’s about what happens in our partnership and how I understand it.
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If the (you + her) relationship is becoming blah, you can advocate for what you need. You can ask for changes and/or break up. You are not obligated to stick around in less than satisfying relationships.

She is free to do the same thing on her side. If she finds the (you + her) relationship is becoming blah, she can advocate for what she needs. She can ask for changes and/or break up. She's not obligated to stick around in less than satisfying relationships either.

No double standard/one-sided thing is going on there from that lens either. It's not a one-sided thing where only one is "allowed" to ask for changes or break up, and the other one just has to just lump it, they don't get to ask for changes and they don't get to break up.

Galagirl
 
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From your old post, in case you need to see that again:
  • I am not sure polyamory is the best way forward right now, as I think there is a lot of personal growth to be done on both sides before we can truly offer what we need to to each other. (Or not. Perhaps parting is still the best way forward.)
  • No matter what relationship structure we are both ultimately after, we need to put the work into ourselves. I need to figure out if I can do that with him by my side, or if I need to do it on my own.
  • I am considering if the healthiest option while I take time to examine my shit is to not be in a relationship at all, and only come back to it (this relationship or another) when I have a clearer understanding of how and who I am.
Those seemed important to you. But let me take the "we" out of it, so it is just YOU. Maybe it helps you to read it that way.

  • I am not sure polyamory is the best way forward for me right now, as I think there is a lot of personal growth I need to do before I can truly be a healthy poly partner. (Or not. Perhaps parting is still the best way forward.)
  • No matter what relationship structure I am ultimately after, I need to put the work into myself. I need to figure out if I can do that with him by my side, or if I need to do it on my own.
  • I am considering if the healthiest option while I take time to examine my shit is to not be in a relationship at all, and only date when I have a clearer understanding of how and who I am.
In case it helps your discernment...

www.scarleteen.com

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don't know how to work through, or don't even know if you should? We'll talk you through making these choices, including how-to's on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.
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It sounds like you are getting better and starting to see more clearly. You're just not happy with what you see.

I wonder if you getting better and paying more attention to what you need for your own well-being, rather than you centering him threatens him because he LIKES you doing all this stuff for him, even if it dings you or sucks you dry?

I wonder if the idea of you dating new people threatens him because then you will learn that you CAN be treated better than how he treats you? You will raise the bar on your personal standards, and expect him to level up? You will STOP letting him slide so much?

I wonder if the idea of you in counseling bothers him, too? Like you might learn in counseling that the peace you create/gain being alone is greater than the peace you have dealing with him?

Galagirl
 
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Hi navigatingnewwaters,

It seems fair to me that if he has the freedom to go out and have sex with other women, you should have corresponding freedom to go out and have sex with other men. He is just mad about it because he got used to being the only one who had that freedom and he expected it to stay that way. Stand your ground. You deserve the same freedom that he has.

Just my initial take on the situation,
Kevin T.
 
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