cheating wife started my poly relationship

[graviton]

Hi gang.

Here is the short sweet version. My wife Esther opened up the idea of going poly because she was interested in women. She ended up having both an emotional and physical affair with the husband of the woman she was interested in. She also had a physical and emotional relationship with his wife that I was fully knowledgeable of and gave consent to. It was her interest in this woman that opened up our relationship to poly.

I told her that if she were willing to go down that path, that I should be allowed to pursue her good friend, Ruth, with whom I'd had a very flirtatious relationship over the last couple years. I was able to convince Ruth to start dating me.

A couple months later, I found out about Esther's affair with Ruth's husband (Nathan). I was furious. I don't think I was in my right mind. As a result, I verbally abused her, and kicked her out of the house for several days. I then decided to take her back, and tried to work on forgiving her and loving her.

(We have 2 young boys.)

One of the terms of our being reunited was that she was no longer allowed to date outside of our marriage. On the other hand, I am unwilling to stop dating Ruth, as we have both fallen deeply in love with each other.

This all began about 6 months ago. I'm still fighting the desire to leave Esther. The days get better as time passes, so I think I'm over the hump. But Esther is angry at me for taking Ruth from her.

What are your thoughts about this whole mess?

What if I told you Nathan was my cousin?

 

[Icewraithonyx]

My first thought was that, during this time of marital strain, having an extra relationship could be taking away resources that are needed to repair things between you and Esther. While Ruth is in the picture, there's not as much motivation to reconnect.

 

[bookbug]

I get that you are angry, and I do understand why. No one likes to feel deceived.

That said, shut down the emotions for a minute, and ask yourself if you logically think it is viable over the long term for you to keep seeing Ruth while Esther is not allowed the same freedom.

First of all, while you have Ruth, it gives you the luxury of remaining angry. And I do mean luxury. Seriously, this happened 6 months ago, and it sounds like emotionally you have barely moved past day 1. Why is that?

Secondly, the inequity of the situation is not conducive to forming a healthy, loving relationship. You may feel justified. That said, while trust must be re-earned, it doesn't sound like you are doing much to resolve your emotions on the issue. I think you know deep down that the way you are treating Esther is not helping to heal the rift between you, but you are not willing to do the hard thing of either letting Ruth go to concentrate on your marriage, or the equally hard thing of forgiving her and allowing Esther her loves.

As for Nathan being your cousin, how is that relevant? I see no importance in that.

 

[bookbug]

Have you and Esther seen a couples counselor?

 

[Marcus]

One of the terms of our being reunited was that Esther was no longer allowed to date outside of our marriage. I am unwilling to stop dating Ruth, as we have fallen deeply in love with each other.

Do you imagine that this ultimatum and expression of control over Esther is going to bring about a more intimate and trusting relationship? Is it going to heal your hurt feelings and encourage her to be more honest with you in the future?

You are punishing Esther, and rubbing her face in it, by doing what you forbid her from doing. This is not the act of a loving person.

 

[graviton]

As for Nathan being your cousin, how is that relevant? I see no importance in that.

I have moved light years away from the anger and resentment I was feeling 6 months ago. I'm not sure if you have ever been cheated on by your wife. But 6 months is a paltry amount of time in the healing process. I have forgiven her.

The problem of Nathan being my cousin is that I can't escape a trigger point for my anger and sadness, due to him being a big part of my extended family. I can't think about or go to family functions without having to be reminded of their major breach of boundaries and respect to our marriage. If he were some other dude, it would be easier to handle, because it would be easier to remove him from my (and Ruth's) life, a very important step in healing from cheating.

As far as Esther seeing others, she has admitted she fucked up, and feels that poly isn't for her, because she doesn't trust herself to be open and honest in that setting.

Thanks for your views. I do take them to heart (especially you, Marcus, as I always love your analysis of every situation). I do recognize that by not giving up Ruth, it may sap resources from the healing. I just can't stand the thought of breaking her heart, or my heart, because of something Esther did. My heart has already been broken once. I don't feel its fair to punish us, in yet another way, as Esther's betrayal really caused a lot of pain to Ruth, also when she saw how it affected me, because of Esther cheating.

Losing my other love will only open new wounds and create more resentment toward Esther.

 

[london]

Leave your wife. Be poly with Ruth, if you want to. There is no point being with someone you cannot trust unless you can completely forgive them. You can't forgive her. What's the point of being with someone you can't trust? And, forbidding her from dating whilst you do, even given the circumstances, is unethical. That's why I think you should just end it and move on.

 

[IndieSolo]

Esther doesn't necessarily need to give up being with your cousin Nathan in order to make amends and rebuild trust. Plenty of poly people stay with the people they cheated with, while they work on the relationship with the partners they cheated on.

Forgiveness means wiping the slate clean, as if it never happened. You don't sound like you've forgiven Esther, at all. In fact, you sound quite bitter and vindictive. You're punishing her and trying to control her, but aren't getting any satisfaction out of that, because doing so is really futile. You're having a tantrum. If I were either Ruth or Esther, I'd dump you for being so immature.

I recommend you seek counseling with a poly-friendly therapist, and stop thinking you have a right to punish Esther. Move on!

 

[london]

You've cheated on your husband with a family member, potentially fucking up his family life too, and you'd dump your husband for being fucking angry about you betraying him in that fashion? Yeah, that's some entitled shit there.

DTMFA.

 

[IndieSolo]

You've cheated on your husband with a family member, potentially fucking up his family life too, and you'd dump your husband for being fucking angry about you betraying him in that fashion? Yeah, that's some entitled shit there.

DTMFA.

No, if I were Esther, I'd dump Graviton for arrogantly keeping his relationship with Ruth while forbidding me to have any other relationships. Of course Graviton has a right to be angry, but at some point, he needs to let that go, or it will turn into bitterness and eat him alive.

He is flaunting Ruth to punish Esther, and isn't even making any effort to forgive her. She is being treated like a criminal. This is serious shit. If he really wants his marriage to work, more than wanting revenge, they both need to focus on each other, and take a break from the others.

No one can make amends or rebuild their trustworthiness if they know that their transgressions will be thrown in their face. The relationship needs two people to work together, not Esther groveling for forgiveness, and a place in his life, while he is basically saying "Fuck you" by lording Ruth over her. The cheating has to be dealt with, but not via a temper tantrum. It's okay for him to be in love with Ruth, but Esther cannot be in love with Nathan?

 

[london]

Where did Graviton say he was "flaunting" Ruth? He just said he doesn't think it's fair to break up with her, because they've done nothing wrong. You're projecting that he flaunts his relationship. He didn't say that at all.

And Nathan isn't her boyfriend-- it's someone she started an affair with. Big difference.

Yes, some people can forgive. He can't. Esther fucked up. DTMFA.

 

[graviton]

If I were Esther, I'd dump him for arrogantly keeping his relationship with Ruth, while he forbids me to have any other relationships. Of course he has a right to be angry, but at some point, he needs to let that go or it will turn into bitterness and eat him alive. He is flaunting Ruth to punish Esther, and isn't even making any effort to forgive her. She is being treated like a criminal. This is serious shit. Ih he really wants the marriage to work, more than wanting revenge, they both need to focus on each other, and take a break from the others.

No one can make amends or rebuild their trustworthiness if they know that their transgressions will be thrown in their face. The relationship needs two people to work together, not one groveling for forgiveness and a place in his life, while he is basically saying "Fuck you" by lording his girlfriend over her. The cheating has to be dealt with, but not via a temper tantrum. It's okay for him to be in love with his gf but she cannot be in love with her bf?

Whoa whoa whoa! You paint a pretty nasty picture. I can guarantee there is no flaunting, rubbing it into her face, lording over, temper tantrums or any of the other nasty things you said. I am very tender toward Esther, and sensitive to her needs. I have forgiven her.

The problem lies in the trigger of this being A FUCKING FAMILY MEMBER I CANT ESCAPE FROM. So occasionally I have mood swings due to that.
You are right-- forgiveness means wiping the slate clean. However, that takes time.

Plus, I can assure you, dating other people is the furthest thing from Esther's mind. She has told me she has absolutely no desire to do so. We have been married 17 yrs. This was our first stumble into poly. It blew up in our faces and damn near destroyed our marriage.

She fucked my cousin Nathan at a family wedding party while drunk. Instead of being horrified by what she did, swearing off him, and taking it to her grave, she decided to explore a little more with Ruth, by asking me if they could date, while at the same time starting to have an affair with Nathan.

This from a relationship which many have described as one of the best marriages they know, due to the level of communication and brutal honesty we have used in our marriage.

I can assure you that her actions were so polar opposite to who she was (normally) that I'm still flummoxed by the whole thing.

 

[graviton]

I can appreciate where you are coming from, NYCindie. You identify as poly, and recognize that you would sooner give up a partner than give up your identity. But this is my wife, who has no poly identity (as of yet). She was bi-curious, and apparently, cousin-curious.

She rationalized that she was being poly during the affair.

I can guarantee that she will not be running back to my cousin. He showed his true colors by denying it all, and calling her a crazy woman, rather than owning up to it.

The way I found out was they kept texting each other. I kept asking her why she was texting Nathan more than Ruth.

By nature, he is a creep and a sociopath. I have had a dim view of him for sometime. When I kept telling Esther this, she would rush to defend him. Little things kept slipping out over the course of 3 months and started painting a picture that troubled me. After a while, I managed to get her to confess, because I was so sick of her lies that I threatened to leave unless she came clean.

I also pieced together that the fucker was trying to get her to leave me and start a triad with her and Ruth. I told her she could have him if she wanted him. Does that show you what kind of a guy he is?

So no, she will not continue to date him as long as she wishes to be my wife. There is no way I will tolerate that. I will lord it over her if she wishes to turn their relationship into legit poly. I will leave her before that happens.

 

[Marcus]

Whoa whoa whoa! You paint a pretty nasty picture. I can guarantee there is no flaunting, rubbing it into her face, lording over, temper tantrums, or any of the other nasty things you have said.

I understand that it doesn't look that way from where you are standing, graviton. But given the information that I've seen thus far, NYCindie expressed exactly my view, as well.

I was about to go through and quote all of the times you have proven NYCindie's statements to be true, but decided it wouldn't accomplish anything. The way you are responding to this difficulty in your relationship is not building fertile ground for intimacy. As is usually my advice, I suggest you take a look inward. Stop focusing on what she has done in the past and with whom. You need to deal with your feelings, which have come from a betrayal of trust. There is nothing Esther can do to heal this for you. It can only be done internally.

I won't tell you that you are out of line for being pissed off, but how you are handling it is not going to make things better.

 

[Derbylicious]

Personally, I'd be concerned about Esther saying that she has no interest in dating anyone else. She may be one of those people who finds it easier to have affairs, rather than putting in the work required to talk everything out and put it all on the table. She's already shown that she will cheat, and the desire to be with more than one person doesn't disappear.

 

[Marcus]

Personally, I'd be concerned about her saying that she has no interest in dating anyone else. She may be one of those people who finds it easier to have affairs, rather than putting in the work required to talk everything out and put it all on the table. She's already shown that she will cheat, and the desire to be with more than one person doesn't disappear.

There is also the issue that she has been given no other reasonable choice outside of saying, "Screw you, I'm leaving." It has been made clear that if she wants to date, certainly if she wants to date Nathan, that her marriage will end instantly. So what motivation does she have to be honest?

This is what you call a lose-lose situation.

 

[bookbug]

I have moved light years away from the anger and resentment I was feeling 6 months ago. I'm not sure if you have ever been cheated on by your wife. But 6 months is a paltry amount of time in the healing process. I have forgiven her.

(I am female.) I don't have a wife.

The reason I came to the conclusion that you had not forgiven Esther is that you stated you still entertain thoughts of leaving her. That doesn't sound like forgiveness, but perhaps I am mistaken.

The problem of Nathan being my cousin is that I can't escape a trigger point for my anger and sadness due to him being part in my extended family. I can't think about or go to family functions without having to be reminded of their major breach of boundaries and respect to our marriage. If he were some other dude, it would be easier to handle, because it would be easier to remove him from my (and Esther's) life, a very important step in healing from cheating.

Okay, I can see where proximity would be an issue.

As far as Esther seeing others, she has admitted she fucked up, and feels that poly isn't for her, because she doesn't trust herself to be open and honest in that setting.

If this is true, then why is she angry at you for denying her access to Nathan?

 

[Icewraithonyx]

Plenty of poly people stay with the people they cheated with while they work on the relationship with the partners they cheated on.

Do you have any examples of this? LovingRadiance is the only one I'm aware of, and she described it as "hell." I'd love to see more examples of how people transition cheating into a healthy poly relationship.

 

[BoringGuy]

Do you have any more examples of this? LovingRadiance is the only one I'm aware of and she described that as "hell". I'd love to see more examples of how people transistion cheating into a healthy poly relationship.

Yeah, i think there may be more examples of people who TRIED than people who succeeded in doing so. But it doesn't appear to be the case that trying is an option as far as the OP is concerned.

 

[Vixtoria]

Here's a quick reply from a cheater. My hubby and I started out this way. I had an affair. I wanted DESPERATELY to make it work and keep the person I had an affair with.

We went to a lot of lists for poly/mono, which I have since left because of the attitudes of the 'poly' side.

Forgiveness. Still figuring this out, what it means, how to do it. We are actually in therapy now. It's been more than six years. We are in a better place. But our issue is that forgiveness is not a clean slate. I don't get that shit at all! We are all adults. Let's be honest. As nice as it would be to have a "clean slate" at times in our life, you don't get one. You can't change what you've done, even if you feel badly about it. So the idea that anyone is owed a clean slate is utter bullshit.

Now, as far as actually forgiving Esther, and moving forward, I'm skipping the whole thing of whether you need to keep or dump Ruth. Can you ask Ruth to take a break, because you need to back off and work on your marriage? Sure. But for a group of people that feel that you only NEED to do things that mean you stay true to yourself, to say that the person cheated on MUST do anything is crap.

Yes, there are maybe one or two people here that cheated, kept the person they cheated with, and still worked out their marriages. They are a MINORITY. Sorry, but this is true. The idea of knowing that this person, not just your spouse, but this other person had also decided you weren't worth telling the truth to, worth the respect of backing off, well that's bullshit... again.

Here's how we started to heal. I hope it helps. I gave up my right to privacy. Obviously I was lying and cheating and couldn't be trusted. Trust had to be built. So if he wanted to, my husband could read every email, every IM, every text. He was privy to every phone call, if he wanted. At first, he really wanted that. As time went by, and I built up trust, he didn't feel the need to anymore.

When I got involved with someone again, he was apprised of every step. "We are talking. We said I love you. We had cyber sex." He was only given details if he asked. That is how you build trust, by being honest and slowly showing that you are not going to lie again.

Saying Esther can't date, well, right now, she probably doesn't want to. It blew up in her face. But saying she can't means that when she does want to, or gets infatuated with someone, she'll probably lie, to you and herself.

I've been down that road, too. "If we don't say we love each other, it's just friends and it's fine!" It wasn't. We were lying to ourselves and so then to my hubby.

So tell Esther it's not "No dating," it's "Take a break for now, to build up trust," so that she will tell you when she is interested in someone, when she is talking to them.

Sadly, there is an overwhelming feeling in the poly world that most cheat because they just didn't know they were poly, so it's more easily forgiven. A clean slate it's not. People who are cheated on know this. There is no clean slate. There's pain, and you have a right to it. You also have a right to grieve.

Now decide. Move forward, or cut your losses. If you are moving forward you have to actively work on trust building. It's hard. But her lies and cheating have basically destroyed the foundation of your house. Time to rebuild, and it's a bitch.

Good luck.