Poll: "I am non-white"

[Seinneann]

I said none of that. It's as if you didn't even read my post. If you look back I said I understand what white privilege is. I never denied it's existence. I've never denied the existence of racism. I see it all around me every day. I don't need any of this explained to me. I was trying to take the conversation to a bigger picture. I was hoping to get some intelligent feedback. Instead assumptions were made and that is what turned this thread.

I should have clarified in my post white people- not just you. This was also taking about other posts in this thread such as MajorMerrick who was centering her experiences of perceived racism in response to a POC talking about racism. You did come to the defence of that which. It also seemed like you were perpetuating the white privilege by asking PurpleSun to center the white person's experience when they were talking about racism from the experience of POC. If that wasn't your intent, it might be useful to note that's how it came across.


You also did say that white people experience systemic racism from hispanics. I

In this area the systemic racism stems from the hispanics. I also saw the same thing on a smaller scale in the city near Seattle in which I lived.

Systemic racism cannot stem from a minority. Unless you meant that hispanics bear the brunt of systemic racism?

 

[Emm]

Today while scrolling through twitter I stumbled across this article by a consultant who is hired by businesses wanting to work out why they have trouble recruiting and/or retaining a racially diverse workforce. This thread was the first thing that leapt to mind.

In the post–civil rights era, we have been taught that racists are mean people who intentionally dislike others because of their race; a racist is consciously prejudiced and intends to be hurtful. Because this definition requires conscious intent, it exempts virtually all white people and functions beautifully to obscure and protect racism as a system in which we are all implicated. This definition also ensures that any suggestion of racially problematic behavior will trigger moral outrage and defense.

 

[vinsanity0]

Today while scrolling through twitter I stumbled across this article by a consultant who is hired by businesses wanting to work out why they have trouble recruiting and/or retaining a racially diverse workforce. This thread was the first thing that leapt to mind.

Better words are needed. What has happened is we have taken established words and attached abstract meanings to them.

 

[vinsanity0]

I should have clarified in my post white people- not just you. This was also taking about other posts in this thread such as MajorMerrick who was centering her experiences of perceived racism in response to a POC talking about racism. You did come to the defence of that which. It also seemed like you were perpetuating the white privilege by asking PurpleSun to center the white person's experience when they were talking about racism from the experience of POC. If that wasn't your intent, it might be useful to note that's how it came across.


You also did say that white people experience systemic racism from hispanics. I



Systemic racism cannot stem from a minority. Unless you meant that hispanics bear the brunt of systemic racism?

MM has limited experience in this country. All I did was point out that her experience was true for her. You seem to be trying to argue that the Hispanics haven't dismantled the white power structure in South Florida (Dade and Broward counties). You are simply incorrect. Hispanics are the majority. White people are a minority. Does this help black people? Not really, because the Hispanics are racist as well. That is what MM was saying. But you dismiss all this out if hand because it doesn't play into your narrative. The whole point was that things can change. Not that white privilege doesn't exist anywhere because if one anomaly.

Seriously, as a white liberal I think it's pretty cool what happened. I'm surprised it is met with anger.

The way we are dealing with racism needs to change.

 

[Seinneann]

MM has limited experience in this country. All I did was point out that her experience was true for her.

Nobody said that her experience wasn't true for her. The point was to look beyond that to see the larger picture.

You seem to be trying to argue that the Hispanics haven't dismantled the white power structure in South Florida (Dade and Broward counties). You are simply incorrect. Hispanics are the majority. White people are a minority.

Yet white people still have higher incomes than Hispanic people.

Yet the number of Hispanics who are on the Food Stamp program far outnumber the number of white people who need food stamps in these counties.

Yet far more white people graduate high school and get college degrees than Hispanic people in these counties.

When you look at the neighbourhoods that are majority white, you'll also find some of the most expensive real estate in the counties.

Yet you'll find that more white people work in managerial roles than Hispanic people.

The list goes on. I haven't even looked at incarceration rates yet.

This is not what a dismantled power structure looks like.

Does this help black people? Not really, because the Hispanics are racist as well. That is what MM was saying. But you dismiss all this out if hand because it doesn't play into your narrative.

Nope. It's not dismissed. There's a difference between systemic racism and prejudice. This was explained earlier in the thread. While it is highly unpleasant to be disliked and even discriminated against in local areas because of being white, it does not undo white privilege to have experienced it.

The whole point was that things can change. Not that white privilege doesn't exist anywhere because if one anomaly.

Except that white privilege still exists even in those anomalies.

Seriously, as a white liberal I think it's pretty cool what happened. I'm surprised it is met with anger.

What you saw wasn't anger. It was disagreeing with you and pointing out why I see your view of this as wrong. As I explained earlier this this post, there has been no dismantling of power structures in South Florida. And the fact that you can't see that shows that you're looking at the wrong things when trying to ascertain where racism is.

The way we are dealing with racism needs to change.

Yes it does. It's a shame there's so much resistance to that change.

 

[vinsanity0]

Yet white people still have higher incomes than Hispanic people.

Yet the number of Hispanics who are on the Food Stamp program far outnumber the number of white people who need food stamps in these counties.

Yet far more white people graduate high school and get college degrees than Hispanic people in these counties.

When you look at the neighbourhoods that are majority white, you'll also find some of the most expensive real estate in the counties.

Yet you'll find that more white people work in managerial roles than Hispanic people.

The list goes on. I haven't even looked at incarceration rates yet.

This is not what a dismantled power structure looks like.

I suspect you didn't post your sources because they would show that it's only off by a few percentage points.

What you said about real estate used to be true. Not so much any more.

Food stamps. The majority race is often the one who receives the most in food stamps. Look at poorer states with a white majority, like Alabama for instance.

But hey, keep twisting things to support your narrative.

Let me ask you a question. Do you do anything about racism other than fight with your fellow liberals (assuming you actually are a liberal)?

 

[Emm]

Me? I call my fellow white people on their racist bullshit, whatever their claimed political affiliation might be.

What do you do, Vince?

 

[vinsanity0]

BTW, nobody said any of this negates white privilege in this country. Strawman argument on your part. Nor does it stop racism. There are still plenty of white racists in this area. Poor them...lol. (Yes that's sarcasm).

 

[vinsanity0]

Me? I call my fellow white people on their racist bullshit, whatever their claimed political affiliation might be.

What do you do, Vince?

The same. Actual racists, not an abstract version of racists. I don't cower in some liberal bubble. Shoot, Mary and I almost broke up when I pointed out some of her racist behaviors.

I'm a truck driver. I run into racists every day. I could tell you some stories. I'm practicing at being more subtle about it with my co-driver. I'm not sure if I'm chipping away at him or he just realizes he should shut up.

ETA I am also active in my community when I can be. Traveling makes that difficult. I'm also very vocal with my representatives.

 

[Emm]

And yet to judge by what you write here you're so blind to those same tendencies in your own behaviour.

Standing on a soapbox to proclaim your awareness of racism doesn't give you a free pass.

 

[vinsanity0]

And yet to judge by what you write here you're so blind to those same tendencies in your own behaviour.

Standing on a soapbox to proclaim your awareness of racism doesn't give you a free pass.

I could say the same of you I suppose.

From where I sit you and others are projecting some preconceived notions upon me. I do understand why. However, your perception of me does not alter my reality.

What is it about my behavior that offends you? What causes you to try and negate everything I say? I agree with 99% of the conversation. Yet when I say I agree you say "No you don't". Is that the whole point, to be contradictory?

 

[Seinneann]

I suspect you didn't post your sources because they would show that it's only off by a few percentage points.

What you said about real estate used to be true. Not so much any more.

Food stamps. The majority race is often the one who receives the most in food stamps. Look at poorer states with a white majority, like Alabama for instance.

But hey, keep twisting things to support your narrative.

Let me ask you a question. Do you do anything about racism other than fight with your fellow liberals (assuming you actually are a liberal)?

I find it interesting that you're talking about "twisting my narrative" and not posting my sources while at the same time saying that *you suspect* x, y and z (without any sources or backup yourself) because that's what best fits your narrative.

It's easy to look up the census data and other demographic data. The latest data I could find was from 2015, which is what I posted about.

As far as the real estate- you say it's not so true anymore. Do you have source data on that? I looked up the most expensive zip codes in the Miami area then looked up the demographics of those areas.

As far as food stamps, one thing the census data shows is percentage of a given population. 25.8 percent of Hispanic people are on food stamps as opposed to 5.5 percent of white people. The list goes on again. But please, do keep assuming that I'm just trying to perpetuate "my narrative".


Here are the numbers for Miami-Dade County- as in the percentage *of a given race* who are on food stamps:

Black: 30.3%
Hispanic: 25.8%
Mixed: 22.5%
Asian: 7.0%
White: 5.5%

That means that one in every four people of Hispanic heritage are on food stamps as opposed to one in every twenty of white people.

Again, this is not what a dismantled power structure looks like.

And what do I do to fight racism? First, I make sure I'm accountable and listening to people of colour in their own experiences of racism. When they call me on my bullshit, I don't question it or try to explain it away or center my own experience- I listen, examine and learn.

Also, I've worked with a couple of organisations that work to dismantle racism and help run trainings and awareness raising among young people around race issues.

 

[Seinneann]

I could say the same of you I suppose.

From where I sit you and others are projecting some preconceived notions upon me. I do understand why. However, your perception of me does not alter my reality.

What is it about my behavior that offends you? What causes you to try and negate everything I say? I agree with 99% of the conversation. Yet when I say I agree you say "No you don't". Is that the whole point, to be contradictory?

There are things you are objectively claiming that are flat out wrong.

 

[Emm]

I could say the same of you I suppose.

You could, and you would be correct. The difference between us, however, is that I'm willing to learn when those who are on the receiving end of it tell me to get back into my lane. You seem more intent upon maintaining your own self-image than on actually being part of the solution.

What is it about my behavior that offends you? What causes you to try and negate everything I say? I agree with 99% of the conversation. Yet when I say I agree you say "No you don't". Is that the whole point, to be contradictory?

You say you agree, but then in your next sentence turn around and demonstrate that you have no understanding of the question. You're doing the equivalent of wearing a "Save the forests" t-shirt while clear-felling old growth, then don't seem to understand when someone suggests that you may not be the world's greatest environmentalist. You claim one thing, but your actions say something completely different.

 

[Seinneann]

And an interesting thing. At Vinsanity's suggestion, I did look up Alabama. Yet again, if you are white, even in Alabama, you are far less likely to be on food stamps than if you are black, Hispanic or of other mixed heritage.

The numbers were:

Black: 30.4% (of black people)
Mixed: 22.9% (of mixed heritage people)
Hispanic: 18.9% (of Hispanic people)
White: 9.7% (of white people)

This isn't a narrative. These are facts.

 

[vinsanity0]

And an interesting thing. At Vinsanity's suggestion, I did look up Alabama. Yet again, if you are white, even in Alabama, you are far less likely to be on food stamps than if you are black, Hispanic or of other mixed heritage.

The numbers were:

Black: 30.4% (of black people)
Mixed: 22.9% (of mixed heritage people)
Hispanic: 18.9% (of Hispanic people)
White: 9.7% (of white people)

This isn't a narrative. These are facts.

OMG you are cracking me up. Those numbers are per ethnic group, not percentages of recipients overall.


https://www.google.com/amp/www.al.com/articles/11489642/everything_you_think_about_foo.amp

In all of America white people collect more in food stamps than any other race. That's a useful statistic to use against racists who say all SNAP users are lazy minorities who don't want to work BTW.

 

[vinsanity0]

You could, and you would be correct. The difference between us, however, is that I'm willing to learn when those who are on the receiving end of it tell me to get back into my lane. You seem more intent upon maintaining your own self-image than on actually being part of the solution.

You say you agree, but then in your next sentence turn around and demonstrate that you have no understanding of the question. You're doing the equivalent of wearing a "Save the forests" t-shirt while clear-felling old growth, then don't seem to understand when someone suggests that you may not be the world's greatest environmentalist. You claim one thing, but your actions say something completely different.

LOL...you have a very skewed view. Fascinating.

 

[vinsanity0]

There are things you are objectively claiming that are flat out wrong.

And I see that in you.

 

[Emm]

And so, he becomes a parody of himself. I'd call troll, but I suspect he actually means it.

 

[vinsanity0]

And so, he becomes a parody of himself. I'd call troll, but I suspect he actually means it.

That's funny considering you have been trolling me since the first week I came here. You'd be on ignore by now if you weren't a mod.

I really have to question why someone wouldn't admit Hispanics can make it.