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Forensics Report I neglected to give an update on Vix's investigation into her relationship with Doc. She finished reading through her email correspondence with him quite some time ago and, although it was wrenching, she seems to be the better for it. I think the worst of it, for me, was the...

Date Night! Our girls were invited to a sleep-over with friends, last night, so Vix and I had some time to ourselves. We went out to dinner at one of the many restaurants in town we hadn't visited yet, a higher-end Mediterranean place that serves really excellent food without being too...

Yes, I see. These considerations are compelling, as complications on consent and equality in the relationships involved. 19-year-olds are legally adults, but in cognitive and emotional terms are not really there yet. It takes extra care to protect and foster the autonomy of "newbie adults." I...

This discussion intrigues me no end, as it shows a limit of tolerance for or acceptance of consensual relationships. Suppose we could take the questions of honesty and consent off the table altogether, for a moment. Assume everyone involved-- mother, father, daughter, FWB, knows everything they...

Yes, but honesty is the hard part because I have to be honest with myself, first, about what I really have to offer and what I may reasonably expect. Letting others decide for themselves is the key, of course, but I shouldn't be surprised or outraged or hurt or offended if no one chooses to...

Yes. The question I've been wrestling with is whether I can live with possibly being the source or agent or conduit or occasion of suckage for another person. For my own part, I don't know if I can live with this. At the very least, though, awareness of the likelihood of suckage should serve to...

Indeed. I did not mean to imply that having children is the only reason to get married. I said only that it was one of the functions of the conventional model of marriage. There are all sorts of reasons to get married. Let a thousand flowers bloom.

Path Dependency Mulling over the ideas in this thread, it occurs to me to introduce a further twist into thinking about privilege and, especially, entitlement. Maybe the more basic problem has less to do with giving priority to one relationship over others, but in assuming that one is...

Children; Obligations It's notable that no one has yet discussed children and child-rearing in this thread. One of the functions of marriage is to provide a stable environment for children as they grow up; the traditional model is for the two individuals who produce a child to commit to being...

I'm inclined to agree that this "charter" or "code" or whatever need not be a sign-on-the-dotted-line sort of contract, spelled out in detail with each potential partner. But I would like to make one point about manners and decency. When I teach ethics, I'm assuming my students are already...

Fair point. But let me ask: Is there any sort of general guiding principle behind all this, a standard of conduct that applies no matter what form the relationship takes? Do you think that, in general, people who are entering in to a relationship with one another ought to treat one another as...

Fair enough. I suggested "charter" with tongue in cheek, though. It is too formal. I'm also thinking beyond this thread, in that I'm not really paying much attention to the primary/secondary distinction . . . which suggests maybe I should start a new thread of my own. I'm thinking about what...

The terms of any particular relationship are to be worked out in detail in negotiation, of course, but there are also some basic standards that apply to any relationship between two people, or any relationship of a particular type. If I were to say that people ought to treat one another with...

I understand the impulse here, but it seems to me the language of rights is out of place in personal relationships, at least if 'rights' = 'things to which I am entitled, which therefore place an obligation on you'. If you want to formalize something, it might be more helpful to think of it as...

I thought it might be. Do note, though, the recently revised user guidelines:

Doing fine, thanks, but how are you???

Forensics So, Vix is still coping with the fall-out from Doc's recent revelation that he likes her . . . whatever that means. But, at the moment Doc is traveling and will be out of contact for about two weeks. Vix is using the time to conduct an investigation, using an unexpected forensic...

It's hard to see this particular thread going any place good from where it is now. In any case, the OP's own story has moved in quite a different direction. I think it fair to say the discussion on her more recent thread shows a different side of the community on this forum.

Welcome to the forum! It may seem odd for me to say this, but in one sense, at least, you're already doing this the best way possible: you're thinking and talking; you're open to various possibilities; you're paying attention to your own reactions and to the needs and responses of others in...

I don't know which disturbs me more: that some of these guys don't know they're being jerks or that they don't know their written communication is incoherent, almost meaningless. Unless, perhaps, it's some sort of minimalist poetry? *ahem* hello how are you your fuckin slamiin...