Another mono/poly, don't know how to move forward

[mcmctalk]

First post, so definitely a newbie, both to the poly scene and this forum.

I'll give a quick Cliff Notes version of my gf and my history. Feel free to jump to the question below. Sorry in advance for the long post.

Background:

Basically, I was dating my girlfriend of 10 years (we broke up for almost 2 years at the 4-year mark) when, a few months ago, I discovered she had been cheating on me with a man she had some sexual relationship with in the past, while we were broken up. This relationship has consistently being a sore point, due to the fact that their "friendship" almost always require exclusivity in activity. In other words, they'd go camping, to concerts, spend weekends together, etc., without other parties involved.

I've tried to deal with the exclusivity issue by being flexible, laying down boundaries, and chalking up the rest of my discomfort to my jealous streak, something I feel very guilty about.

4 months ago, I ran across an email that indicated they had more going on than friendship. I also noticed her taking more weekend trips and an increase in secrecy. Finally, last month, I showed up at the man's door and exposed the affair.

When she finally came home, we discussed what to do going forward. She said the man (we shall refer to him as Tosh going forward) is a friend, and that she is in love with him, and desires to have him in her life in some form or another for the rest of her life. She said it does not diminish any love she had for me. She has no plans on leaving me for him. In fact, there are no plans to escalate her relationship with Tosh to any kind of relationship. She said through this experience, she's learned that she is a poly person, and that her heart is split between the two men in her life.

Upon hearing this, I read through "Opening up" and devoured the content on this forum. My gf and I also learned to be open and honest, beginning with her telling me about the nature of her relationship with Tosh, including email and text communication. This was to try to establishe the lost trust from the affair.

I've tried furiously to deal with my jealousy issue, something I'm still struggling with daily. I asked to go at my pace, which is something she has agreed to.

With that background, here are my questions:

1) I'm not opposed to polyamory in an intellectual sense. In fact, the idea of being able to share intimacy with multiple individual has strong appeal to me.

I am, however, having a lot of difficulty getting over the issue of jealousy. I've read through the many resources online about dealing with jealousy, but just cannot prevent my emotions from taking over, every time I read another email from Tosh, expressing his love for my gf or planning another weekend getaway. I'm close to giving up on dealing with the jealousy issue alone.

2) GF has asked to see Tosh twice a month, with occasional weekend getaways. She gains most satisfaction from spending the night at Tosh's house. The problem is I experience a very strong sense of loss when she spends the night at his house. How do other monos deal with this? Do you just find some midnight hobby while you're up all night engulfed in jealousy?

3) GF is currently completely in NRE, which annoys me to no end, since every time she sees something beautiful, like clouds, sunsets, flowers, etc., it reminds her of him. How do you guys deal with NRE? How do you experience "compersion," to share the experience with her? I just cannot find the space in my heart to enjoy her going gaga over another man. I wish I could!

I have so much trouble dealing with these issues, that the idea of leaving this relationship is beginning to cloud over my judgement. I don't want to throw away 10 years of history and the beautiful dreams my gf and I have constructed together. I really want this to work. I just feel so lost and don't know what else to do.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Nighthorse]

Sounds complicated.

I don't know how a person "stumbles across" another person's email. That sounds like snooping, to me. In an ideal world, we could talk to our partners about our needs and deeds and desires without turning into secret agents. It sounds like a terrible way to find out about an affair: both because you were lied to and because (it sounds like) you violated her privacy.

The point I'm trying to make is that you need to work on communication. You can't be expected not to become jealous if you feel you're getting tricked. But you'll have to invest some trust, too, if you want her to be honest with you about how she's feeling (and what she's doing). The same goes for you. You need to be able to talk about these feelings with her. To do that, first own your own feelings. Take responsibility for your feelings of jealousy and understand where they come from.

I would feel jealous, too, if a partner of mine had cheated on me. (And, yes, there is such a thing as cheating in non-monogamous relationships.) If you negotiate an agreement based on mutual emotional needs and it is dishonestly violated, that's cheating, in my book. You should discuss the parameters of the relationship you wish to have with your partner.

As for the loneliness, might I suggest a hobby? If nothing else, having a regular hobby to do will get you out of the house and might even help you meet other like-minded non-monogamists. Try bowling. Or, for the nerdier person, Dungeons and Dragons at the local comic book store can be very fulfilling.

To appreciate your partner's NRE, it helps to feel some yourself. It doesn't have to be for a romantic relationship. A new friend (or a renewed old friend) can be very good for the heart.

 

[IndieSolo]

If you do a tag search here for "mono/poly" you will find several threads where suggestions are made for how the monoamorous partner can handle such relationships, including what to do with your time when she is out.

 

[mcmctalk]

Thank you Nighthorse, that was really great advice, especially the communication bit.

I have to admit, invading her privacy was a major violation on my part. The initial "stumbling across" was literally stumbling across a text on her phone while I was making a call, but the subsequent snooping that came from distrust was my doing. I feel very bad about it, but I also know that if I hadn't found out the truth, she would have lied to me for as long as possible.

I even went as far as writing Tosh an email to try to get clarification on the nature of their relationship, but she instructed him to lie to me. He told me in email that nothing was going on between them, and that it was purely platonic, much like a sibling relationship.

As you can see, we lost a lot of trust from this affair, and part of me has a difficult time finding the room to trust again. I am forcing myself to, because I know if I don't, we won't be able to go on.

As for the hobby bit, I actually have quite a few hobbies. Before all this happened, I was pretty wrapped up in extracurricular activities. GF and I hung out on weekends and some weeknights, but I definitely kept myself busy otherwise.

My bigger issue is when she's out having sex with Tosh, having this great profound experience, I'm here at home and feeling extremely lonely, jealous and envious of Tosh. I wish it was as easy as picking up another hobby. At at some point, I have to come home to my empty bed, with the knowledge that she's sleeping with him. I wish I could switch my brain off and stop obsessing over this fact, but somehow I just can't...

She's requested twice a month sessions with Tosh. Given there are only 4 weekends a month, I suppose I'm only left with 2 weekends. Add weekend getaways with Tosh on top of that, and I just don't know if I have the capacity in my heart to move forward. I love her dearly, but I also cannot lose myself.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Maybe if reading his emails to her upsets you, you shouldn't do it? It seems a little invasive to me, anyway, though I can certainly see how you'd have some trust issues going on right now.

Do you know Tosh at all personally? Could you see ever becoming friends with him? Many people find that helps, because it allows them to see the other person not as competition but, perhaps in time, as a collaborator in making the same person happy. It also build trust, which cuts down on fear and jealousy.

If the NRE is too much for you right now, maybe this is another area where she could go at your pace by just not bringing him up all the dang time. I'm not advocating an emotional version of don't-ask-don't-tell, but I don't see that there's any need for her to be telling you whenever he pops into her head, I think that would get old, no matter what the situation, but especially considering that you're healing from being cheated on!

Do you think you may ever be interested in another relationship of your own? I'm not saying it would be the best idea right now, by any means, but when everything is on a more even keel, it might be worth exploring, if it feels right.

 

[AnnabelMore]

She's requested twice a month sessions with Tosh. Given there are only 4 weekends a month, I suppose I'm only left with 2 weekends. Add weekend getaways with Tosh on top of that, and I just don't know if I have the capacity in my heart to move forward. I love her dearly, but I also cannot lose myself.

You don't have to agree to anything you're not yet ready for. I assume you two are having long, serious conversations to figure out where your boundaries are, what you can each compromise on, what you each need in order to be healthy and happy, and why, and where something might be able to work in a different way? Why does 2x/month have to mean weekends? Does he live too far away to see during the week? Could she get by with fewer overnights (that's a big sticking point for many couples) if she could still see him for, say, a day trip?

She broke your trust, and while she doesn't deserve to be "punished" like a child, she does need to realize that it's put you in a really bad place, and that you need her to rein things in a little right now, NRE or not. It's okay to take a step backwards when you realize something isn't working like you'd hoped. It sure sounds like this isn't working for you, but that you are truly trying. I hope she appreciates and respects that.

 

[mcmctalk]

AnnabelMore, you really raise some great questions.

Maybe if reading his emails to her upsets you, you shouldn't do it? It seems a little invasive to me, anyway, though I can certainly see how you'd have some trust issues going on right now.

Do you know Tosh at all personally? Could you see ever becoming friends with him? Many people find that helps, because it allows them to see the other person not as competition, but, perhaps in time, as a collaborator in making the same person happy. It also builds trust, which cuts down on fear and jealousy.

Do you think you may ever be interested in another relationship of your own? I'm not saying it would be the best idea right now, but when everything is on a more even keel...

Reading her email is a horrible thing. I hate invading her privacy and want to trust her fully. The desire for verification of honesty is very strong, but I do realize the need to have that leap of faith again.

I met Tosh once a long time ago, and then again when I showed up at his door. GF has always been very hesitant about having us meet. I've stressed that Tosh should be converted to "friend of the relationship", instead of a foe. This is a concept she agrees to, but she doesn't know how to have these worlds collide, and honestly, I'm not even sure if she wants to.

I don't think I have the capacity to have another relationship. I'm still recovering from the deep wound from being cheated on. This experience recalled significant self-esteem issues like abandonment and inadequacy. I need to recover from those issues before I can feel desired again by a stranger.

 

[mcmctalk]

You don't have to agree to anything you're not yet ready for. I assume you two are having long, serious conversations to figure out where your boundaries are, what you can each compromise on, what you each need in order to be healthy and happy, and why, and where something might be able to work in a different way? Why does 2x/month have to mean weekends? Does he live too far away to see during the week? Could she get by with fewer overnights (that's a big sticking point for many couples) if she could still see him for, say, a day trip?

Work schedules don't allow too much room beyond weekends right now. He lives about 30 minutes away, so it's certainly not too far for a day trip.

She derives a lot of pleasure from waking up with him and enjoying the mornings, etc. I want to give that to her, but at the same time, I'm struggling a lot with it. I don't want to become the controlling boyfriend limiting his GF to being at home with him at all times.

Now that I'm writing all these out, maybe my current state is somewhere along the line of once a month overnight + day trip. Since they take so many getaway trips, it'll probably end up being more than that by default, anyway.

One concern that comes to mind is this. She typically has Mondays off, and I work Mondays. Part of me really wants to allow her to see him every Monday since I'm at work, anyway. Yet somehow I can't find the room in my heart to allow that to happen. Should I be more open? Am I still too emotionally attached to the idea of monogamous ideals? I can't figure out for the life of me why it bothers me so much that if I allow Monday visits that she'd be seeing him every week + some weekends.

Anyone with this type of experience who has came through it?

 

[Icewraithonyx]

Often, when polyamory is something of a surprise, it's advised to slow down to give the mono a bit of time to adjust. This is VASTLY more important when it's introduced through an affair. Too many people make the mistake of trying to go straight from cheating to polyamory, as if now that things are "in the open," it's all fine. But no. The biggest casualty of an affair is the trust, which is vitally important if polyamory (especially poly/mono) is going to work. My wife and I made this mistake, and it left cracks.

I think the next step should be her taking a break and healing the trust between you.

 

[ChloeJane]

What my last mono partner wanted/needed.

The last poly relationship that I was in with a monogamous man taught me a lot about taking care of two hearts/individuals. I swiftly learned that while I loved both people very much, my primary partner's wishes and needs had to be of the utmost importance to me in order for him to feel comfortable with something that was a very foreign concept to him. He had never even heard of polyamory before.

We had a lot of ground rules that we established TOGETHER:
1) I went and saw my secondary partner on weekends when my primary was out of town/had plans. If my primary partner's plans changed and he was going to be home, he had the right to "veto" my time and ask me to cancel plans with my secondary. He rarely, if ever, did this, but I think that was partly due to the fact that he knew he had the option to.

2) I was never allowed to bring my secondary to our house when he was home, and we were never allowed in "our bed" - only the spare bedroom.

3) He didn't want to know about most things. I respected that.

4) I was responsible for "coming down" from my weekends with my secondary by myself. I would usually take time to do yoga, meditate, have a bath, read, or journal, "get out" the last of my NRE for my secondary and be ready to bring my attention and energy back to my primary.

5) When I did need to talk about something that was happening with my secondary with my primary, I let him know that I needed to talk with him, and he let me know when he was ready (emotionally, mentally, etc.). We'd then talk about proposed dates/scheduling, e.g., Valentine's Day, or when my secondary was having problems with his wife, and I didn't know what to do.

6) They never met. He never wanted to meet him. He didn't want me to go into any kind of details about my life with my secondary ever, unless we were having a serious talk. I respected that.

We talked about opening up our relationship for almost a year before it actually happened.

My heart goes out to you about being cheated on. She is lucky you are willing to stand by her during this time. My advice is always the same:
Be Honest
Communicate
Stand Up For Yourself
Follow Your Heart
Demand Respect if You Have To
Don't Be Afraid to Have Conflict
Take Time For Yourself
Talk to Someone You Trust (this forum def. counts!)

You seem like a wonderful, emotionally-rich man. Do NOT feel bad about wanting her to see him on Mondays. I think that is a totally reasonable request. This has to work for both of you, and YOU can't be the only one making compromises and concessions. She needs to work on making this comfortable and doable for you, as well!

 

[Arrowbound]

As someone who was in a similar place a short while ago, I want you to know that it's okay to feel how you feel. Don't let anyone or anything try to convince you otherwise. It's important that you communicate these feelings to your gf. In my experience, I really had to flesh it out to my partner, because he couldn't, for the life of him, understand why I was having such an intense adverse emotional response, and neither could I. But I needed an understanding between us so I could move forward.

Sometimes people aren't able to see past themselves. It happens to all of us. A big difference with you is that you're also dealing with trust issues due to this stemming from an affair. So a lot of patience, understanding and acknowledgement on her end will be necessary for this to work in any capacity. If you need to say it out loud as such, do so.

Examine, layer by layer, for as long as you need to. You'll learn a lot about yourself. I sure did.

 

[redpepper]

The last poly relationship that I was in with a monogamous man taught me a lot about taking care of two hearts/individuals. I swiftly learned that while I loved both people very much, my primary partner's wishes and needs had to be of the utmost importance to me in order for him to feel comfortable with something that was a very foreign concept to him (he had never even heard of polyamory before).

We had a lot of ground rules that we established TOGETHER:
1) I went and saw my secondary partner on weekends when my primary was out of town/had plans. If my primary partner's plans changed and he was going to be home, he had the right to "veto" my time and ask me to cancel plans with my secondary (he rarely if ever did this, but I think that was partly due to the fact that he knew he had the option to)

2) I was never allowed to bring my secondary to our house when he was home, and we were never allowed in "our bed" - only the spare bedroom.

3) He didn't want to know about most things. I respected that.

4) I was responsible for "coming down" from my weekends with my secondary by myself - I would usually take time to do yoga, meditate, have a bath, read, or journal and "get out" the last of my NRE for my secondary and be ready to bring my attention and energy back to my primary.

5) When I did need to talk about something that was happening with my secondary with my primary, I let him know that I needed to talk with him, and he let me know when he was ready (emotionally, mentally, etc.) We'd then talk about proposed dates/scheduling, e.g., Valentine's Day, or when my secondary was having problems with his wife and I didn't know what to do.

6) They never met. He never wanted to meet him. He didn't want me to go into any kind of details about my life with my secondary, ever, unless we were having a serious talk. I respected that.

Our rules worked for us. We talked about opening up our relationship for almost a year before it actually happened.

This is fascinating to me. Sorry for the derailment here for a sec. Are you still with these people? Were they avoiding dealing with it all? How did you cope with all that!? I remember coming home from being with Mono and having to suck up my NRE but at least I felt as if I could break down and cry or something if I needed to. Those "rules" seem so controlled and manipulated, to me, but maybe sometimes a DADT policy is the best bet in order to carry on.

 

[mcmctalk]

I'm incredibly thankful for all the replies. The reaffirmation that my feelings are not completely out of whack is really helping me dig deeper to figure out what my desires are and how to set boundaries to make sure they are met.

ChloeJane, thank you for sharing your examples of what worked for you. Seeing other people's boundaries definitely reminds me to examine what kind of boundaries would make me comfortable.

Icewraithonyx, my original intent was to work on our relationship for a while, too, maybe 3 months or so. We somehow settled down to 1 month of no face-to-face with Tosh. It really helped us get up to speed on a lot of the trust issues. There is still some disconnect in trust, but seeing my GF open up to a level I've never seen in the 10 years we've been together has been eye opening. Honesty truly does wonders.

 

[mcmctalk]

I wanted to quickly update the latest development.

I have finally agreed to allow GF to see him, and spend the night this upcoming weekend. It was a significant step forward for me. I'm not exactly thrilled about this decision, but it's a decent compromise, since GF won't be seeing him for the whole month of December, and she's willing to do it on a Sunday - Monday to minimize the amount of time I have to spend at home. Also, she'll be spending New Year's Eve with me. I'm quite happy about kissing her when the clock strikes midnight.

Part of her theory was that we could sit down and talk all about possible scenarios, and how I would react. But until we actually try it, we won't know anything. Even though the overnight is happening much sooner than I'd anticipated, I'm willing to make a one-time exception to see how I react emotionally. Depending on how I react, we'll decide how regularly to plan this type of arrangement.

I'll have to deal with whatever feelings might come up. I've been studying all the online resources on jealousy, and reading the forum exhaustively to try to prepare myself for the weekend. I think some rolling around in the hay with the GF beforehand will ease some of my anxiety. And I'm going to try to meditate and read. I know I won't be in the mood to watch TV/movies. It's going to be a long weekend.

Any other tips from the poly veterans?

I also came up with some boundaries that I felt would be important to me. I've listed them below. I feel quite selfish in some of these rules, so perhaps fresh sets of eyes can help straighten me out if I'm asking for unreasonable things.

1.) No public shows of affection, i.e., holding hands, hand on thigh, hugs from behind, cuddling... general "couple" behavior. She claims the relationship she has with him is of the "friendship" type. I don't see the need to pretend to be boyfriend/girlfriend in public, then.

2.) No lingerie. It somehow makes me feel special to have some ownership of this. He doesn't really care about lingerie, so I don't think it's a big deal. Somehow it is, for me. Same thing goes for Bed & Breakfast.

3.) Honesty. 'Nuff said.

4.) Define the relationship with Tosh. Force him to think about what type of relationship this is. Where does he see this going in 6 months, a year, 5 years, etc.? All 3 of us need to see eye-to-eye and play our parts accordingly.

5.) Be home on time.

Thanks again for reading, everyone. This has been an incredible experience. To have strangers on the internet helping me with such intimate subject is a true honor. Ya'll are good folks.

 

[rory]

I think it's great you want to try and make things work and to rebuild trust between you two. You're doing well coming here for advice and communicating with her.

I came up with some boundaries...

1) No public shows of affection, i.e.. holding hands, hands on thigh, hugs from behind, cuddling. She claims the relationship she has with him are of "friendship" type.

2) No lingerie. It makes me feel special to have some ownership of this. Same thing goes for Bed & Breakfast.

3) Honesty. 'Nuff said.

4) Force Tosh to think about what type of relationship this is. Where does he see this going in 6 months, a year, 5 years, etc.?

5) Be home on time.

Have you and she talked about these things yet?
What does your GF think?
Does she feel these things are unreasonable?
Do you have good communication going?
When you write these are things you want to ask for, what exactly does ask mean? Is it still open for negotiation, or do you insist on the boundaries you want?
Does she know that, too?

She was cheating, and probably feels guilty (for a reason), and that might make it hard for her to express an opinion if she feels some of the boundaries are too restrictive. But if she doesn't communicate her disagreement to you, there's a risk that she'll violate the boundaries. If she does that, she'll be totally responsible for that. However, by working together in your relationship to create an open environment for communication you can try and avoid that.

In my opinion, number 3 (honesty) is essential for obvious reasons. 1 and 2 are reasonable, if all involved think so. What does she think? You're not unreasonable for asking, but she should also get an opinion (and so should he, at some point). If these things are important to her, but you feel strongly about them, maybe you could come to some sort of compromise for now, and revisit the situation after some time. Number 5: what does "on time" mean? If it stands for "at the time I tell you," it sounds too controlling. If it stands for "at the time we together agreed to," it's completely reasonable.

Number 4 sounds a bit confusing to me. What are your reasons behind this? It comes off a bit odd. You want to make her force him to define their relationship more clearly? Why is that? Isn't it more relevant to you what your girlfriend wants from the relationship? If you do want his input, that might be something possibly better communicated between you and him directly. Which brings me to this issue:

I met Tosh once a long time ago, and then again when I showed up at his door. GF has always been very hesitant about having us meet. I've stressed that he should be converted to "friend of the relationship", instead of a foe. This is a concept she agrees to, but she doesn't know how to have these worlds collide, and honestlt, I'm not even sure if she wants to.

I think she's being a little possessive here. I don't think it would be wise to suddenly start hanging out as a group all the time, and there must still be alone-time for her to be with him. But I do think it would benefit you to get to know him a bit better, if it is your wish (and his).

 

[mcmctalk]

Thank you, Rory. Your questions are absolutely enlightening. You really touched on things I hadn't thought about much.

I do think the boundaries will have to be set by both of us, not just me insisting on my needs. I will try to figure out what GF truly thinks of them to minimize violation. At the end of the day, a violation of the boundaries will destroy the little trust we've been building, and that's more detrimental than stupid little rules.

Number 5: what does "on time" mean? If it stands for "at the time I tell you", it sounds too controlling. If it stands for "at the time we together agreed to", it's completely reasonable.

I find myself having the most difficult time after 9 pm. It will be a time we agree upon, but I think, for the time being, it seems to help me get over this uncontrollable jealous streak.

Number 4 sounds a bit confusing to me. What are your reasons behind this? It comes off a bit odd; like you want to make her force him to define their relationship more clearly. Why is that? Isn't it more relevant to you what it is your girlfriend wants from the relationship? If you do want his input, that might be something possibly better communicated between you and him directly. Which brings me to this issue:

The reason I want her to help him define their relationship is because I don't think he's asked that question before. I have no idea what his intentions are. Is he's trying to "date" my GF to eventually replace me? Does he want a secondary relationship, a primary? Every time I talk to GF about the nature of their relationship, she defines it as "friendship with additional intimacy." I feel like if I can get his take on the issue, it would help all of us understand where we stand.

Part of my issue with Tosh is that he is quite demanding of GF's time, perhaps without realizing it. He requests hotel/weekend getaways, comes up with numerous concert and hiking date ideas. Somewhere in me, I feel like if he recognized that she needed to cultivate her relationship with me, as much as (if not more) than with him, perhaps he'd be more thoughtful about proposing weekly getaways.

As I write this, I feel quite guilty for some of the emotions coming up, such as expectation that GF spend more time with me than him, devote more to me, etc. Perhaps it's the 'social conditioning' that's often touted in poly circles. I can't stay. I'm ready to toss it all out the window, either rethought.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Wanting your gf to spend more time building her "primary" relationship with you, that is to say, the relationship that you both are building a future around, versus on her "secondary" relationship with him, that is to say, the relationship that is important to her, but plays a less prominent role in her life, is perfectly valid. There's no need to feel guilty for that, as long as you're also acting with compassion and giving everyone's needs (hers in particular, but perhaps genuinely his, too, some day, especially if you and he become friends) consideration where they can be met without violating your own needs.

I agree with Rory that she needs to reconsider that whole thing of keeping you and Tosh separate. I can see why she would be scared of getting you two together. What if you don't get along, or you can't handle seeing them being affectionate? Maybe she wants to keep him something special just for her. Or maybe it's a holdover from the affair, feeling like things need to be a little secretive. But it's a bad plan for all involved.

She's brought him into your life by asking you to accept his presence in her heart and love life. If you want to meet him and get to know him a little, which I think is healthy, you should get that chance. Ideally, you guys should get the chance to have honest, no-holds-barred, ongoing conversations, as needed, that can lead to greater trust and understanding all around. Is that idealistic of me to envision, especially considering the affair? Perhaps, but why not aim for it? Wanting to know his thoughts about the relationship, at the very least, is very, very reasonable.

The only boundary you've laid out that I think might be problematic is the PDA thing. Perhaps it won't be a big deal, but I know that little acts of PDA make me feel very connected to my partner, and I wouldn't want to give them up. Are you afraid people you mutually know will see them together and get the wrong idea?

 

[ChloeJane]

Part of my issue with Tosh is that he is quite demanding of GF's time, perhaps without realizing it. He requests weekend getaways, concerts, hiking dates. I feel that if he recognized that she needed to cultivate her relationship with me as much (if not more) than with him, perhaps he'd be more thoughtful proposing getaways.

I think this is a really valid point. I think it's totally important to allow the primary relationship the time/space to stay strong, and for both members of the primary relationship to make a conscious commitment to making dates and scheduling time. I think you're being really mature in your realization and needs here. Perhaps one of your boundaries can tackle this subject of scheduling, and maybe as a hat-tip to your "primary" status, you can have "first dibs" on the schedule, so that you constantly have fun and exciting things to look forward to with her? Do you also schedule concerts, hiking (maybe hiking's not your thing, but snowshoeing is), etc.? Those things are pretty exciting and fun, and are also super bonding/restorative in a relationship. I read an article once saying that one of the most important qualities of couples that are the happiest/stay together the longest is to have a core value of continuing to create exciting activities together.

I find myself having the most difficult time after 9 pm. It will be a time we agree upon, but I think for the time being, it seems to help me get over this uncontrollable jealous streak.

Given that you've been through a lot of trauma as of late, I think that your feelings of safety are pretty important. Sure, it could be seen as a little controlling, and others might think that it's unreasonable, but asking, negotiating, and being honest gives you a good starting point to work from, if nothing else. Maybe you could set a date up until which this boundary is to be respected to help you adjust in a lot of other areas (e.g., we'll revisit this on January 15th, 2012), if she has reluctance there, so that you feel safe, but she knows that it's not necessarily permanent? Just a suggestion.

I manage a lot of people, and it's something I do with new schedules that staff aren't sure are going to work for them. Most of the time, the schedule turns out to be fine, but once in awhile tweaks do need to be made, with both sides ending up pretty close to the original change, and being happy too.

To answer Redpepper's (always welcome) derailment:

This is fascinating to me. Are you still with these people? Were they avoiding dealing with it all? How did you cope with all that!? I remember coming home from being with Mono, and having to suck up my NRE, but at least I felt as if I could break down and cry or something if I needed to. Those "rules" seem so controlled and manipulated to me, but at the same time, maybe sometimes a DADT policy is the best bet, in order to carry on.

I really push your boundary button, eh? Those were the boundaries that we came up with that felt really safe for him, and I respected and accepted them entirely. He respected how much love I have to give, and found peace in sharing me. For a very straight-laced fella this was HUGE in itself. We did a lot of communicating before he came up with his list. It took a year. He wasn't a fast mover, and I was fine with that. I didn't feel the need to push/force anything, and had a lot of respect for him knowing himself well enough to ask for what he wanted, and being comfortable in those parameters. We had a couple of issues along the way, but we had good communication about them on the whole.

So no, I don't feel that he was avoiding dealing with the situation. He just found his comfort and happiness amongst it all. I worked with my psychologist and did a lot of self-inventory to manage my own NRE, and channeled it really well back into my primary in the end.

Each relationship is different; each person is different, and I think boundaries can be a way of ensuring that everyone in the relationship feels respected, loved, and taken care of on their terms. "Controlled and manipulated rules" (which I don't see them as being) are still rules, and if all parties communicate about them, consent to them and are happy with them, they are very workable. They were for us for quite a long time. We ended up going our separate ways in the end, but I feel that we had a largely successful relationship. Breaking up is never an indication of failure in my eyes, nor is staying together a success.

I'm sure lots of people have rules that wouldn't work comfortably for you or me. I have a lot of really fun lingerie and enjoy wearing it, so mcmctalk's #2 would not be okay for me, for example. But that's just me, and I totally respect mcmctalk's right and desire to ask for this, and hope that his partner is willing to agree to it to ensure his comfort.

My fascination revolves around the communication, honesty, trust and willingness to make boundaries that work, revisit them if/when needed, and then once the framework is established, having tons of fun!

 

[mcmctalk]

The only boundary that you've laid out that I think might be problematic is the PDA thing. Perhaps it won't be a big deal, but I know that little PDAs make me feel very connected to my partner and I wouldn't want to give them up. Are you afraid people you mutually know will see them together and get the wrong idea?

People knowing is actually the least of my concern. I think right now I'm processing so much emotion, that dealing with this one additional sort of minor detail just doesn't seem productive. Eventually I can probably shed this rule, but I guess it's my way of just not dealing with it right now.

I suppose it's also the evil social conditioning thing again, that somehow I feel like I "earned" my status to enjoy these social comforts, and he kind of just swooped in and is pretending to be her boyfriend. I don't know, it's annoying to think about.

 

[ChloeJane]

I suppose it's also the evil social conditioning thing again, that somehow I feel like I "earned" my status to enjoy these social comforts, and he kind of just swooped in and is pretending to be her boyfriend. I don't know, it's annoying to think about.

Wow, you've got great self-insight going on already. It IS annoying to think about sometimes. Like, it makes me uncomfortable. Isn't that enough? Wherever there's discomfort, there's the capacity for self growth and great communication with your partner. You might end up having the same boundary in the end, but at least you will feel totally at peace about it, and both people will feel totally understood. Sometimes being understood and accepted is enough to make the boundary unnecessary in the end, but I don't think you need to push, push, push all at once, either.