Looking for experienced advice & perspective.

T

Tommy29

New member
Hi,

I'm seeing one girl who is poly. I am routinely having one-night stands. I have not actually cared about a girl in over three years.

Right now, a girl is coming to live with me for three years. A little about her: She is a gold digger, sugar baby. She's not gold digging me. I'm broke. Anyway, we will be living together for a few months. In a big way, this is to see if we want to marry each other. The idea is that she can have sugar daddies and gold dig. I can go out to bars and clubs and sleep with women.

Lately I've been wondering if I can handle this. She seems to be handling it well. Today I messaged her something random. She replied, "I'm getting fucked as I write this. lol." It hurt. My natural inclination is to care less about her and pull my emotions away. I can be icey and not give a shit. I can care. But I don't know if I can do both.

So far, I have been guiding our interaction to be open about everything. That way, we keep ourselves aware and nothing surprises us. We have always talked about sex with other people and have been good friends. But now that I think about marriage and loving her and caring... these things that were just fine before are now painful.

She makes statements sometimes that send a ping of pain into my body. One recently was her talking about another guy, and she said something akin to, "Yeah, I think he is worth the effort. I actually like him. He is probably the only one in the world I would put that much effort in for." She is not being cruel in telling me this. We are just really solid friends and she's being honest. This is her bf that dumped her.

I guess I'm wondering if there is a way to reconcile all of this... a new mindset or something. I don't see the point in being married when I will pull away emotionally and not care about her. I'm already finding myself just not interested in her.

It's hard for me to know if this is because I'm wrongly following my emotions in a situation I logically want. I find myself very scared, more so than I have been in my whole life. Vulnerable. I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I love her a lot, but I feel like she doesn't love me the same way. I think I would give up a lot for her, but she wouldn't me. And so I think my pulling away emotionally and not wanting to marry her is justified. But then, I also feel marrying her and sleeping with other women on the side would be a baller situation that I would like... and if I didn't, I would miss out on a lifestyle I'd enjoy logically.

I'm so confused.
 
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Tommy29 said:
Right now a girl is coming to live with me for three years. A little about her: She is a gold digger... we will be living together for a few months and in a big way this is to see if we want to marry each other. The idea is that she can have sugar daddies and gold dig. I can go out to bars and clubs and sleep with women.
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Wait, which is it, three years or three months?

Tommy29 said:
Lately I wonder if I can handle this. She seems to be handling it well but even though she does not know me not so much.
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Why are you considering marrying someone who does not know you very well? How did this topic even come up? What do you hope to get out of marriage?

Sorry to bombard you with questions when you're looking for answers, but it's hard to know how to give good advice without understanding your situation better.
 
Whoops, sorry. I'm a bit emotional so I wrote some of this in a rather confusing way. She is going to live with me for 3 months, but we have known each other for 3 years. I didn't mean she doesn't know me. I feel she does. I just wrote that all messed up.

I guess what I hope to get out of the marriage is a situation where I can love someone, and have all of the comforts of someone to care about and invest my time and attention in, into our future together, while still seeing women on the side openly to fulfill all of my sexual cravings.
 
You make it sound as if you think women are toys.

I have not actually cared about a girl in over 3 years.
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If you haven't cared for a woman in 3 years, why would you marry a woman? Why bother to marry or live with someone at all?

If you are upset about her having sex and texting you, it sounds like you care for her.

None of what the two of you are doing sounds to me like fulfilling polyamory.
 
Well, there's no reason to get married to live with someone you care about. Just live together! Until you both know yourselves better, and know each other better, and learn how to deal with being respectful, and how not to be jealous, how can you two practice polyamory?

If you want someone to come home to after your sexual exploits, and if she wants that too, after shagging men for their money, fine. Don't expect it to all be a bed of roses. You will both need patience with each other and tip-top communication skills.
 
Magdlyn said:
Well, there's no reason to get married to live with someone you care about. Just live together! Until you both know yourselves better, and know each other better, and learn how to deal with being respectful, and how not to be jealous, how can you two practice polyamory?

If you want someone to come home to after your sexual exploits, and if she wants that too, after shagging men for their money, fine. Don't expect it to all be a bed of roses. You will both need patience with each other and tip-top communication skills.
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I hate to point this out, but someone has to:

"Sugar babying," "sugar daddying," and "gold digging" are forms of prostitution, not polyamory. Not that there's anything SEX NEGATIVE or VICTIM BLAMING about taking money or goods in exchange for sexual services (as long as all involved are of the age of consent and no coercion or force is involved, which would then make it rape instead of prostitution-- but I digress), but it's the wrong P-word to use.

Rubbing your naughty bits together with the naughty bits of more than one other person within a given time period does not mean you are "poly." It means you fucked more than one person within a given time period. Who is living with whom and whether a piece of paper is filed with your government, making two people "married," is really irrelevant.

That said, if doing these things makes the two of you happy, keep doing what works. I just want to make sure you know what these big words mean.
 
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This situation is so not poly. If you are happy, more power to you.

Poly is having loving relationships with more than one person, not having sex with multiple people.
 
Dagferi said:
This situation is so not poly. If you are happy, more power to you.

Poly is having loving relationships with more than one person, not having sex with multiple people.
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What they have is an open relationship. It bears some resemblance to polyamory. He might learn something here.
 
Magdlyn said:
What they have is an open relationship. It bears some resemblance to polyamory. He might learn something here.
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Maybe if he can start seeing women as more than human sperm depositories.
 
Outsider said:
It sounds like his new potential live-in interest sees men as little more than bank machines. Perhaps they're perfect for each other.
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Is that what "sperm bank" means? :confused:
 
Dagferi said:
Maybe if he can start seeing women as more than human sperm depositories.
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It might seem that way. Occasionally it has been. But there are quite a few women I'd love to date, or at least see again.

When I meet a girl at a bar, I spend a couple hours getting to know as much as I can about her, and seeing if she's someone who I'd want to have sex with in the first place. Sometimes, or often, someone who I really end up liking ends up being someone I don't want to sleep with.

But the truth is, it's often their choice to not see me again after sex. I think I just find women in this environment while they are on vacation. Or they just broke up with someone, but are horny. Or maybe it's something about me that says "potential sex partner for tonight, but not relationship material."

Anyway, I obviously don't need more sex in my life.

As an example, the last girl I slept with was a real cool person. I would have enjoyed getting to know her more and spending time with her. She was not interested in hanging out again. Often girls have rejected me, kicked me out after they are satisfied, not even wanted to take my phone number. I have even gotten upset about it a couple times and felt like women were just using me for sex.

A bit off topic, but I don't feel like women are cum depositories, especially after spending hours to get to know them.
 
Tommy, you can spin your lifestyle all you want, but do not label it as polyamory to make yourself feel better.

Polyamory translates as "many loves." Not "many no-strings-attached sex partners," "one night stands," etc.

You have an open relationship. You enjoy sleeping with whoever you wish. More power to you. Enjoy yourself.
 
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I'm not really interested in labeling anything whatever. Sorry if my presence or my lifestyle is disturbing. I'm not trying to say my situation is poly or not. Okay, I agree with everyone-- it's not. But I don't care. You guys have a lot of experience handling emotions and thinking clearly in unconventional relationships. I'm just here because I'm hoping to benefit in some way from that.
 
Hey all-- not much room for explanations on the part of the OP in some of these replies. It could be Tommy's writing style, word choice, etc., but it seemed to me that he was addressing an online community that he felt was a good place to start.

Now, that said-- yeah, Tommy, you probably aren't poly, but maybe you'd like to be in the future, or want to just get an opinion. Open relationships, poly, anything out of the mono culture, all have things in common, and all kinds of relationship are talked about here. It's a great place for advice. Just read around on the pages/threads. You'll find some gems, for sure.
 
Tommy, first of all, spending a few hours trying to see if you want to fuck someone is not really much of an investment, so I don't know why you paint it as if you've really made any effort. All you're doing is sniffing out whether or not you want to stick your dick in someone.

Second of all, you seem to categorize women as either "good for sex" or "relationship material." That is the classic madonna/whore complex. (Google it if you never heard if it.) Why can't a woman be both someone you want to have a caring relationship with, and have sex with, as well? Why is it that if she is your friend and fucking other people without emotion, that's okay, but if you want to marry her, then it hurts you? Dude, truthfully, you have a very immature view of women and relationships, and your values come across as quite shallow.

To me, it is no wonder you are involved with a chick who fucks men for their money. You and she are very much alike! You use women for sex, she uses men for money. Now, you could marry her for convenience, as you both will get some benefits like tax breaks, etc. But wouldn't being married hamper her efforts in attracting sugar daddies? Really, if you have to move in together, then just live as roommates. Why would you marry her?? If you and she have a sexual relationship, too, then you just have a roommate who fucks you every now and then. Or forget about moving in together. It doesn't matter.

But no matter what you decide to do with that situation, I would suggest that you start going to therapy so you can learn more respectful ways of viewing and interacting with women, if you want any meaningful relationships in your life. If you keep going on the way you are, your relationships won't be very deep and it will feel very unsatisfying.
 
nycindie said:
OP,
First of all, spending a few hours trying to see if you want to fuck someone is not really much of an investment, so I don't know why you paint it as if you've really made any effort. All you're doing is sniffing out whether or not you want to stick your dick in someone.

Second of all, you seem to categorize women as either "good for sex" or "relationship material." That is the classic madonna/whore complex (google it if you never heard if it). Why can't a woman be both someone you want to have a caring relationship with, and have sex with as well? Why is it that if she is your friend and fucking other people without emotion, that's okay, but if you want to marry her, then it hurts you? Dude, truthfully, you have a very immature view of women and relationships, and your values come across as quite shallow.

To me, it is no wonder you are involved with a chick who fucks men for their money - you and she are very much alike! You use women for sex, she uses men for money. Now, you could marry her for convenience, as you both will get some benefits like tax breaks, etc., but wouldn't being married hamper her efforts in attracting sugar daddies? Really, if you have to move in together, then just live as roommates - why would you marry her?? If you and she have a sexual relationship, too, then you just have a roommate who fucks you every now and then. OR forget about moving in together, it doesn't matter. But no matter what you decide to do with that situation, I would suggest that you start going to therapy so you can learn more respectful ways of viewing and interacting with women, if you want any meaningful relationships in your life. If you keep going on the way you are, your relationships won't be very deep and it will feel very unsatisfying.
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You know, this could come across as an "attack". :eek: You really should use more artificial sweetener. :p
 
Hey Tommy. Sorry about all the harshness you've been receiving here. My impressions/advice --

You have a friend/lover who you've known for several years. You're planning to do a trial move-in with the possibility of a long-term commitment (marriage). You have an open relationship, and both have the freedom to get involved with other people emotionally and physically, but right now neither of you is involved in any other serious emotional relationships, just a number of physical ones. Your other involvements take the form of casual sex, hers take the form of informal sex work. (No judgment whatsoever implied by calling it sex work. I know it's easy to say that, but I actually mean it. That just seems to be what it is-- exchanging sex for money.)

You're concerned as to whether or not you can form a deep bond with this person in the context you've created for yourselves, or whether her involvements with other people will keep you from emotionally committing to her. You also worry whether she's truly willing/able to commit to you.

Sound right?

I think there are a few things to consider here.

1) Three months may not be enough time to decide whether a serious commitment is a good idea. People can still be on their best behavior for the first few months of a relationship. You don't usually really get to know them, warts at all, until a little further in. I imagine this is true also for a major shift in a relationship. You may get to see the best side of her as a roommate/partner in those three months, and then find that things change down the line. Why not just plan to live together for as long as it makes sense for both of you, and leave the serious commitment for when it really feels right? What's the rush?

2) If you do decide that a serious commitment is what you both want, marriage may or may not be necessary. Marriage ties you to another person legally. If you don't think of it as a religious thing, then the legal aspect is the only difference between marriage and any other type of commitment ceremony. Is being legally tied to another person, half your property being theirs, etc., really right for you two? Why? That takes a huge amount of trust, and if it doesn't work out, you two will be able to really screw each other over if you're married (divorce proceedings!). I'm not saying it couldn't ever be right, but if you're still having such fundamental doubts, I would hold off on making anything legal until years down the line. I just don't see what benefit it would confer to either of you, and I worry that you're considering it mainly because it's what society tells you a committed relationship has to look like. Not true.

3) Are you truly ok with an open relationship? This is where your most serious questions seem to be. There are two parts to this.

3A) Are you ok with her being with other people on an emotional level? I'm thinking of this thing you said--


She makes statements sometimes that send a ping of pain into my body. One recently was her talking about another guy and she said something akin to, "Yeah, I think he is worth the effort. I actually like him. He's probably the only one in the world I would put that much effort in for." She is not being cruel in telling me this... we are just really solid friends and she's being honest. This is her bf that dumped her.
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It sounds like this really hurt you. I can see why. "The only one in the world" makes it sound like she puts him above everyone else, even you. Again, why would you marry someone, which you can only do with one person in the world at a time under our legal system, when you're not their #1 priority? So there's that question, about this specific guy. Does she really care about him more than you? Would she leave you for him if he asked?

But then there's the more general question. How would you react if she didn't put him above you, just on an equal plane, but wanted an equal emotional relationship with him or with someone else? This is where "polyamory" actually enters the picture. Do you believe that people can have functional, honest, respectful, loving relationships with more than one person? Do you believe that you and she have the communication and time-management skills for that? There are some great writings at www.morethantwo.com that might help you feel out whether this is a path that makes sense for the two of you.

3B) Are you ok with her being with other people on a physical level? You said--


Today I messaged her something random and she replied "I'm getting fucked as I write this. lol." It hurt and my natural inclination is to care less about her and pull my emotions away.
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If she's doing sex work (which, again, is what being a gold digger seems to be to me, if in a more informal way), being physically intimate with other people is part of her everyday experience. It's what she's chosen to make her happy and to pay her bills. You need to be able to accept this 100% in order to be with her. If you find that it makes you pull away and grow cold, then no, I'm sorry, this is not going to work unless you can find a way to get over that.

4) Is she the right one? Let's say you work out all of the issues above. That still doesn't mean this is the right relationship for you, necessarily. You say--


I love her a lot, but I feel like she doesn't love me the same way. I think I would give up a lot for her, but she wouldn't me. And so I think my pulling away emotionally and not wanting to marry her is justified.
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Does she love you as much as you love her? Would she sacrifice for you like you would for her? These are crucial questions. Don't go jumping into anything without knowing the answers. There's no big rush. Take the time to really learn her heart and mind. Ask her these questions, and, better yet, pay close attention to her actions, how she treats you. When something is important to you and she needs help, but it would be inconvenient for her to be there, does she do it anyway?

And then you say--


... but then I also feel marrying her, and sleeping with other women on the side would be a baller situation that I would like, and if I didn't I would miss out on a lifestyle I'd enjoy logically.
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Make sure that you're not just doing it because it makes sense "logically." Your gut has to agree with your head, or you'll be miserable in short order. What makes you think you couldn't have this "lifestyle" -- a committed, caring relationship and casual encounters on the side -- unless you make this particular commitment to this particular women? What you're describing actually isn't that uncommon. Call it polyamory (which would be the right word if you're open to forming emotional bonds with other people), call it swinging, call it an open relationship-- it's everywhere. Don't jump into something that feels wrong because you think this is your last chance to have the life you want.
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Look, you two can not live like Caligula on a bender and expect to be able to form a healthy core relationship. If you want to have a stable home to come home to, then you have to build that relationship first, meaning: if you two want to build a life together, you need to focus on the two of you and stop playing around with others until you have a solid foundation.
 
nycindie said:
First of all, spending a few hours trying to see if you want to fuck someone is not really much of an investment, so I don't know why you paint it as if you've really made any effort. All you're doing is sniffing out whether or not you want to stick your dick in someone.

Second of all, you seem to categorize women as either "good for sex" or "relationship material." That is the classic madonna/whore complex (google it if you never heard if it). Why can't a woman be both someone you want to have a caring relationship with, and have sex with as well? Why is it that if she is your friend and fucking other people without emotion, that's okay, but if you want to marry her, then it hurts you? Dude, truthfully, you have a very immature view of women and relationships, and your values come across as quite shallow.

To me, it is no wonder you are involved with a chick who fucks men for their money - you and she are very much alike! You use women for sex, she uses men for money. Now, you could marry her for convenience, as you both will get some benefits like tax breaks, etc., but wouldn't being married hamper her efforts in attracting sugar daddies? Really, if you have to move in together, then just live as roommates - why would you marry her?? If you and she have a sexual relationship, too, then you just have a roommate who fucks you every now and then. OR forget about moving in together, it doesn't matter. But no matter what you decide to do with that situation, I would suggest that you start going to therapy so you can learn more respectful ways of viewing and interacting with women, if you want any meaningful relationships in your life. If you keep going on the way you are, your relationships won't be very deep and it will feel very unsatisfying.
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Probably true. I came out of 6 or so years of monogamous relationships, followed by 3 years of one-night stands, with a couple girlfriends on the side of that. It's funny how the pendulum swings from one side to the other and lands in the middle.
 
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