Long marriage, new love, polyamory?

T

TravelingMan

New member
This posting is about my experience over the past year. My wife and I have a long term successful marriage, and shortly before we moved overseas a year ago, she started a relationship with a woman for the first time, which has continued long distance. They're about to reunite.

We are both in our late 40s, both successful professionals, and we've been married for close to 20 years. We have two young teenagers, and have had a strong and stable marriage. Communication is good, sex is good, and we both feel genuine love and affection for each other. We both place a high value on honesty, integrity and trust.

Since before we were married, she has been attracted to women. Apart from a few aborted experiments in high school, though, she has never been intimate with a woman.

About a year ago, she became friendly with a colleague in her professional circles “P” who is a very out lesbian. Their relationship developed quickly over a few meetings. My wife always kept me appraised of what was happening between them, and I encouraged her to explore this aspect of herself and her sexuality.

Last summer, shortly before we departed the country for a two year stint overseas for my job, they had an intense date, where they really clicked. Since then, they have carried on a long distance relationship via email and Skype.

She and the kids are traveling back to the U.S. in the next few weeks. The kids will go off to camp and visit family, while my wife will work at the main office of her organization. She will stay with P during this time, while I remain overseas for my own job. Later in the summer, I will join her and the kids visiting family in various cities before we head back overseas.

I've struggled on and off with how to put my head right with all of this for the past several months. I know it will be particularly tough the two weeks they are together.

When this first came up, I viewed my wife's affair with P as an exciting sexual experiment. As she's somewhat conservative when it comes to sex, I've always encouraged her to expand her horizons and I know she's always wanted to know what it's like being intimate with a woman. As their relationship has developed, it has taken on a much deeper emotional attachment, which in my mind, at least, changes my conception of our marriage.

In grappling with my own feelings of jealousy, I've discovered the concepts of Polyamory, which fit generally with our values. I've read the Ethical Slut, Sex at Dawn and a number of other books. These have helped me find a framework for our experience and convinced me that it's OK and people do successfully manage these kind of multiple relationships. I am interested in having experiences outside of our marriage, too. She says that couldn't fairly deny me that freedom, but that it would probably make her uncomfortable.

I'm committed to supporting her and her relationship with P. I don't see how I can deny her the chance to experience a side of herself the has never been able to express.

My fears are mostly tied to worries that her affair with P will lead to the end of our marriage or that she will decide she doesn't want to be married to a man anymore. These are unfounded and probably unrealistic possibilities, but they're real fears in my head. At the end of the day, these are things having to do with her future feelings and thoughts, which I have no control over. All I can do is to treat her with love and respect, which has been my focus the past several months.

This dynamic is a profound change for me, because I have relied on her for years for strong and stable emotional support. I've always felt our marriage was rock solid and that has been a source off stability and comfort for me. The idea that that may not be the case is upsetting.

I've also realized I'm probably too dependent on her for my own emotional support. I have no close friends here overseas, and I have a tough time reaching out to people to make friends. My wife, on the other hand is adept at cultivating people and building genuine and deep relationships.

All of these points raise a new tangle of emotions I'm just now beginning to figure out how to sort through.

Thanks for reading this far. Clearly I've got some work to do. Would love to hear your constructive insights.
 
Fear happens. It's an emotion. Emotions happen, and they're valid even if they don't make sense. Same goes for jealousy.

*Thoughts* are a little more easily controlled.

It sounds like you and your wife have had a good marriage up to this point. It also sounds like you *still* have a good marriage. There's just another component to it now.

Polyamory doesn't mean you don't have a good, solid marriage. It just means that she (and possibly you) have the capacity to love more than one person.

Bear in mind, by the way... having a *sexual* relationship with someone outside the marriage isn't necessarily polyamory. It could be just having an open marriage. Polyamory, by definition, includes *loving* more than one person, and sex and love don't always coexist. One can easily exist without the other. You say that at first, it seemed to be only sexual between your wife and P, but now there's a "deeper emotional attachment." Are they in love? Or is this "deep" attachment just an intense friendship?

I do think, based on what you've said, that a lot of your fears and jealousy are because you don't have anyone other than your wife to fulfill your emotional needs, and you're afraid that she won't be able or available to fulfill those needs if she's in a relationship with P.

First...*love* is an infinite thing. Parents love more than one child. Children love more than one parent. People have more than one friend, and depending on the level of the friendship, that could mean they love more than one person, but platonically rather than romantically. Even if your wife is in love with P, that doesn't mean she's any less in love with you than she was. Nor does it mean she has any less emotional investment in you or your marriage.

Time, however, is finite. The *time* she spends with P does take away from the time she's with you. But it doesn't take away from her *feelings* for you.

Second, if you have no friends or other connections in your current location, I would strongly advise you to try to find something to occupy yourself, or someone to talk to or hang out with, in that location. Feeling isolated sucks whether you have a spouse or not, and if your spouse is your only source of connection and fulfillment, first of all that makes it difficult for you when they aren't around, and second, it's kind of unfair to them, in my opinion. No one can be EVERYTHING to someone else, and it sounds like your wife has become your de facto "everything" because you don't have anyone else.

I'm not saying go out and find someone to have a relationship with. But try to make friends. Hang out at a coffee shop. Find a volunteer organization or an activity club or something. Some way to meet other human beings who you can form some kind of connection with so you don't feel so isolated when your wife isn't around.

(I know that's nowhere near as easy as it sounds, by the way. I have the same problem; I'm not much of a "joiner", don't really have any hobbies, and cringe at the thought of all the small talk involved in "making friends". I've pretty much resigned myself to being isolated and relying on the adult folks in my signature for my connections. So I'm being kind of a hypocrite by giving you that advice, and I own that; on the other hand, you seem to be expressing a desire to connect with people somehow, so I'm trying to respond to it.)

As far as continuing down the polyamory path, some things for you to consider:
- Are you doing this *only* for your wife, or do you see a benefit to yourself in allowing her to explore this dynamic?

- If your wife decided she wanted to date another man, would you be okay with that? Or are you only okay with her dating women? Or would you not even be okay with other women, only with P?

- If your wife is only letting you consider seeing other people because "it wouldn't be fair" for her to say no, might she end up resenting you or being hurt or angry if you find another partner? Or is she actually open to the idea of you having someone else?

- Do you and your wife have the level of open, honest communication necessary to make this work? Do you feel that you can go to her and say "I can't handle you having this relationship anymore"? Does she feel that she could say the same to you if you found another partner? Can you set agreements and boundaries without feeling trapped or making the other feel bossed around? Can you tell each other about fears and jealousies while still allowing the situation to continue?

It sounds like you've laid a good foundation for this to work. You've done some research. You say you've always had a rock solid marriage, and despite your fears, I don't see any reason why that might have changed.
 
Hi TravelingMan,

Quick question. You mentioned that you are overseas (for the balance of two years). As far as your social life is concerned, is there a language barrier for you where you are? What about cultural barriers? Has that been a challenge for you?

In life, everything we do is a gamble. It would be nice if I could assure you that your marriage will survive poly. All I can say is that I *think* it will survive. But if you put a stop to the poly, you still run the risk of losing your marriage, due to latent resentment on the part of your wife.

I would suggest continuing to study and learn about poly. Both on this site and a couple of other sites, Opening Up and More than Two. Note that each of those two sites has a corresponding book, and I highly recommend the books as well if you haven't already read them.

I think if you continue to converse with us on this thread, we can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks for your kind and insightful posts.

KC43, you're right that the work I need to do is expand my own emotional support network, but it is hard work, particularly because, as Kevin suggests, i am overseas, where it's a rather small expat community. This just makes this more of a challedge, but not impossible.

My wife and I are on this journey together, though it's been mostly me doing the reading and thinking about polyamory. Though she's receptive to the idea, I think she still sees polyamory as a fringe phenomenon. She's reluctant to do too much thinking on the future until after she gets together with her lover this summer and figures out where things are going to go. I guess it's the feeling of being powerless and out of control that I struggle with the most.

I also struggle with the fact that there is now this whole part of her life, which is important to her, that is off limits to me. She's very open and honest about what's going on, but its very strange not to be able to really understand their relationship. From an intellectual perspective, I fully accept her right to privacy, but we're accustomed to sharing almost everything, and to have this part of her life closed to me is hard to accept emotionally

Thanks again for your thoughts and support..
 
Re:
"I think she still sees polyamory as a fringe phenomenon."
Click to expand...

Thing is, fringe phenomena aren't always bad.

Re:
"She's very open and honest about what's going on, but it's very strange not to be able to really understand their relationship."
Click to expand...

But we can never completely understand everything about each other -- even if we're spouses. All humans are very unique, and have unique experiences. The best we can do is form an approximate understanding of each other. That's always been true.

Just some thoughts ...
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
TravelingMan said:
I also struggle with the fact that there is now this whole part of her life, which is important to her, that is off limits to me. .......I fully accept her right to privacy, but we're accustomed to sharing almost everything, and to have this part of her life closed to me is hard to accept emotionally
Click to expand...

Seems that every couple comes to a point in their marriage where they realize what Kevin just pointed out - that two people are indeed not "one", never were "one" and never can be "one." The goal of sharing everything starts to erode togetherness over the years more than it keeps a couple emotionally close. Sharing everything works for only so long, then the natural human inclination for freedom bubbles up in one way or another. Allowing this desire for freedom and separate exploration gives a marriage elasticity and like an enormous tree, lives on and on because it is flexible and not rigid. I think this is what so many divorces are all about, one or both spouses feeling the pressure of way too much expected togetherness and mutual similarity. Every long lasting and harmonious marriage I know is one in which the individuals are allowed to be very different and separate where they need to be.
 
Kevin and Karen,

Thank you for your considered and thoughtful comments.

Karen, I particularly like what you had to say. i fully agree that acceptance of change and giving our partners the freedom to fully express themselves is critical to successful long term relationships. Change can be tough, though and it can take a while for one's heart to go where one's head knows it needs to go.

Kevin, I fully agree that "fringe" isn't necessarily bad. In fact, my wife and I talked this weekend about how polyamory is likely on the bleeding edge of the profound wave of social change in human social and sexual relationships that is continuing to reverberate from the advent of widespread safe and effective birth control a generation ago. I'd be surprised if polyamory doesn't become much more accepted in the coming years. Ross Douthat of the New York Times even touches on this in some recent posts.

It's great to find these healthy perspectives in this forum.
 
Keep us posted on how you're doing, okay? Wishing you the best.
 
All good here. Had a weekend getaway that really helped jell things in my head. I turned the corner from selfishly hoping that my wife's relationship is just a fling to recognizing that her connection with her lover is a beautiful thing to be nurtured and protected.

I've made what I feel like is a pretty constructive journey over the past few months from jealousy, insecurity and fear to this point. This is mostly from reading about polyamory and the ways people in multiple relationships handle their relationships successfully. This was all completely new to me a few months ago.

The thing is, my wife's lover is struggling. I don't think she's familiar at all with these concepts and has a hard time accepting that she's involved with a married woman. Coping with jealousy is hard, especially without a framework to do so.

My general inclination is to butt out of what's going on between them, as its really not my business, but I'm concerned for my wife, and now am concerned that the combined stressors of LDR, my wife's marriage to me and lack of a framework to make sense of things will cause her lover to turn away.

Thoughts?
 
Would she (your wife's lover) be willing to at least look at the More Than Two website? It has a good FAQ page for beginners.
 
Update: My wife and her lover got together yesterday for the first time in almost a year and had an incredible time. She shared her experience over the phone today, and though we're 6000 miles away from each other right now, I feel closer to her than ever. After almost 20 years of marriage, who knew the future could be so exciting?!

While I feel like we've just jumped off a ledge into an unknown mist, I also feel like we're at the start of an incredible new chapter of our life together.
 
That sounds like good news! :)
 
So that last post was premature. While all is well back in the US with my wife and her new lover, I'm 6000 miles away struggling with jealousy.

My intellectual side knows that this relationship is an important for my wife and her need to feel like a whole person (by giving expression to her need to be with women), and I want to give her the space she needs to have this new love in her life. I also know that she loves me and that her newfound love doesn't diminish her love for me or threaten our commitment to each other.

But emotionally, it's a whole different story. I feel like my marriage has fundamentally changed, that I'm no longer the center of her emotional and sexual world, and that's scary. I just want things to go back to the way they were before this new person came into our lives. But there’s no road back. There’s only a road forward. One path leads to hurt and pain (on the part of my wife and her new lover), and resulting discord, frustration and conflict between us. The other road leads to a place defined by unconstrained love and intimacy, and a lot of uncertainties. The uncertainties are scary, but can’t be nearly as bad as the path to negativity. And I want to believe that somewhere in the future is a place of comfort and love free of jealousy and pain on my part, but that’s really hard to see from where I'm standing.

How do you experienced polyamorists deal with this stuff?!
 
TravelingMan said:
I've also realized I'm probably too dependent on her for my own emotional support. I have no close friends here overseas, and I have a tough time reaching out to people to make friends.
Click to expand...

TravelingMan said:
I want to believe that somewhere in the future is a place of comfort and love free of jealousy and pain on my part, but that’s really hard to see from where I'm standing.
How do you experienced polyamorists deal with this stuff?!
Click to expand...

The standard response is to seek reassurance from your partner, to have faith in her love for you, to understand that love multiplies when shared, etc. etc. etc, and those are certainly options that have merit. However, there is a more bountiful approach to working with fear of any kind and that is to let others off the hook, take out the urgency to fix and see that this is a time in which you can make a lot of changes that will improve your life as a whole, not just fix one particular situation with a few particular people.

I think of jealously more as an opportunity to expand the places where I look for well being instead of looking for it so much in signs of the person's esteem for me. Hanging security on the perceptions & behavior of others makes for a rather mercurial experience in life because people are unpredictable, uncontrollable and no matter how much they may love us, have their own lives to live. Fear-based efforts to grapple others (even in our minds) back into more pleasing behavior often yield anxiety, for we all know that there really is no absolute control to be had. Many people live their entire lives struggling in a life that is based on reactions to what is happening around them, but others take Life's offer to find a more stable orientation. We usually don't take the trouble to re-orient how we've always done things, how we've always thought about things, until life gets unbearable. So here you are, in an unbearable spot where many people also have found themselves. Each of us can sit sadly and wonder "Why is this happening to me?" or we can choose to see the broader perspective, turn our gaze and realize that "This is happening for me." I get a strong sense that you're looking for a lot more than just the easing of your fears in this one spot, Traveling Man, and that is truly exciting. I get the impression that you're looking for a better life experience in general and there are many paths that lead to this. People who mature and get to better places in life are the people who know that crises aren't just nuisances to be overcome, but serve as spring boards that propel us to a better life all around, so I urge you not to just "fix" the jealously, but to look deeply at how you can change the ways you see yourself in relation to other people.
 
Last edited:
FallenAngelina said:
However, there is a more bountiful approach to working with fear of any kind and that is to let others off the hook, take out the urgency to fix and see that this is a time in which you can make a lot of changes that will improve your life as a whole, not just fix one particular situation with a few particular people.
Click to expand...

I get a strong sense that you're looking for a lot more than just the easing of your fears in this one spot, Traveling Man, and that is truly exciting. I get the impression that you're looking for a better life experience in general and there are many paths that lead to this. People who mature and get to better places in life are the people who know that crises aren't just nuisances to be overcome, but serve as spring boards that propel us to a better life all around, so I urge you not to just "fix" the jealously, but to look deeply at how you can change the ways you see yourself in relation to other people.
Click to expand...

Karen, thanks for these thoughtful words. I do see this experience absolutely as a catalyst for me to tackle some of the issues I have with my own habits and support network that I've neglected for the past several years. And I'm working on expanding my social horizons and achieving deeper levels of intimacy with the friends I do have. But this is not a task to be undertaken overnight. And while adding a new lover to my life, as Sue suggests, certainly has an appeal, that has to be part of my broader project of broadening my circle of support (and not easy to achieve as a male in a foreign country with a conservative culture and a small tightly knit ex-pat community).

I guess monogamy Has allowed me to be lazy with my relationships. So this is all a bit of a shocking wake-up call for me to do a bunch of work I didn't realize I needed to do.

Really appreciate the support.
 
Hi TravelingMan,
Here are some links to stuff that may help with the jealousy issues:

Let us discuss the greeneye monster shall we?
How to slay the greeneyed beastie.

How To Contain The Green Monster
Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, Etc.
How do you achieve compersion?

The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Practice of Jealousy Management

Jealousy and the Poly Family
Kathy Labriola: Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

On a larger level, I think you are mourning the specialness you used to have with your wife. No longer are you her one and only. This often initiates the stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance), and you may have to go through one or more stages more than once.

I hope you won't be afraid of the road of uncertainty, it will lead to new love and intimacy.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Happy to be here, Traveling Man. Fortunately, the internet makes it possible to find ideas and people who help us along. I know that I certainly owe a debt of gratitude to the many people in the world who have touched my heart and shown me a better way, all via the internet.

The good news here is that the more you open to Life, the happier you are and the more visible you make yourself to others (AKA intimacy.) Our relationships reflect who we are so as you find the joy within yourself, you'll synch up with others who mirror this and bring more joy into your world. You will literally be more visible and more attractive and you'll find people coming into your life in all sorts of new and pleasantly surprising ways. It's indeed a long road, but so it is for everyone and hooray for that. There is so much along the way.

You really sound like a great guy and I know that your wife sees so very much in you. You two have the makings of a wonderful poly success story and I do hope that you continue to participate here so that we can all follow along.

\(^-^)/ \(^-^)/ \(^-^)/
 
TravelingMan said:
I've also realized I'm probably too dependent on her for my own emotional support. I have no close friends here overseas, and I have a tough time reaching out to people to make friends. My wife, on the other hand is adept at cultivating people and building genuine and deep relationships.
Click to expand...

This part of your post really resonated with me as it very closely resembles my own feelings about and relationship with my partner. We are also in a similar situation to you and your wife in that we are in a long-term committed relationship where one of us, him, has been encouraged to explore their developing poly side and has been completely open and honest about it throughout.

I am also currently realising that I am unhappy relying so closely on my partner for all my emotional needs and am somewhat envious of his ability to deeply connect with people very easily whereas I struggle to even move past the acquaintance phase. I am learning that the only way to get past this is to actively work on it and make it a priority in your life. I have taken several steps to improve including:

  • seeking counselling for my social anxiety
  • getting 'life coaching' to teach me how to connect with people
  • contacting friends regularly to catch-up
  • meeting new people on a regular basis (meetup.com is an excellent website that can connect you with groups in your area)

I am definitely noticing a change in my social life just in the past couple of months, I am even dipping my toe into online dating (keeping it casual but have been on a few dates and had some great interactions so far). Others are noticing it too and commenting that I seem more confident and outgoing.

Anyway, sorry to talk about myself so much but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone as that is how I felt reading your post. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top