Communicating seems to be over

[lovinhimloviner]

Thank you for the kind words.

It is just Harlan and me and the kids tonight. We are talking. I'm only crying when I go to another room.

John doesn't get on this board, but Meg does. I really wish we could all be on here, because they would both benefit greatly from everyone's advice.

Harlan told me tonight that he knew John and I were in love before we would admit it to ourselves. He said that we betrayed him by falling in love, and that John was no longer his friend. Keep in mind they had been friends for 20 years before I stupidly told Harlan how I felt about John. I guess when I actually spoke the words it all changed.

Harlan is so angry that we fell in love. I never meant to fall for John, but it happened after a decade of friendship. I'm not sure why it was ok as long as we didn't ever talk about it. If Harlan knew for years that John and I were in love, and just never told anyone, including each other, then why didn't it bother him before? It must be a male/female thing or something.

He is upset that I don't see how we betrayed him.

He had feelings for a girl who stayed with us and we all slept in the same bed. Then he thought he was in love with another chick. That was fine, and not part of our swinging life. Then he met Meg and we found polyamory.

Then I finally worked up enough courage to admit my feelings to myself, then Harlan. It was a couple months before Harlan told me I could tell John what was going on, so he would know why Harlan was treating him the way he was. When I told John how I felt, he started to cry and hugged me. He told me he loved me too, so much, and that he couldn't believed I loved him back.

Since then, they have not been the same. I hurt that they are right here in the same house and aren't friends. John doesn't know they aren't friends anymore. It will kill him, so I won't tell him. Harlan will have to do that on his own. John already feels bad about everything that he had put Harlan through in the past, but Harlan can't forgive him for any of it and throws it up in his face every chance he can.

I miss my fun-loving husband that has been replaced by this angry hurt man who just feels betrayed. I wish I could fix it, but it isn't my place to try. If Harlan doesn't want his friend back and can't forgive him, then it will tear us all apart. At least, I think it will.

 

[Phy]

I am surprised by the double standard I see in Harlan's behaviour. Well, maybe not so surprised. I tend to have a similar problem, but I am aware of it. Does he know that this might be not fair? That it seems as if it is okay for him to love another person, but it isn't for you? Aside from who it is. Or is his issue that it had to be his friend you fell in love with?

And don't feel responsible to hide your tears. I cry easily. I need those tears to relieve the stress I feel in the specific situations. I know that some take tears as an aggressive act that should make them feel responsible or at fault. But it isn't like that most of the time, at least not for me. I am not sure if this is the thing for you as well, but maybe it would help to explain to Harlan that you are not accusing him if you cry, that you need this to deal with a painful situation and the pressure you are feeling. That you don't cry for the sole purpose to make him feel bad.

Don't give up. Wishing you some happier moments in the future.

 

[IndieSolo]

We are talking and I'm only crying when I go in another room. . .

. . . Harlan said that John and I betrayed him by falling in love and that John was no longer his friend. Keep in mind they had been friends for 20 years before I stupidly told Harlan how I felt. I guess when I actually spoke the words it all changed. He is so angry that we fell in love. I never meant to fall for John, but it happened after a decade of friendship.

Harlan is upset that I don't see how we betrayed him. . . I hurt that they are right here in the same house and aren't friends. John doesn't know they aren't friends anymore.

. . . I miss my fun-loving husband that has been replaced by this angry hurt man who just feels betrayed.

It is extremely sad that you must go and hide in another room to feel your feelings. Harlan sounds quite immature emotionally. He is being irrational, dictatorial, and possessive toward you and in what he wants. I hope he reads this! You should not feel that telling him you fell in love with his friend was "stupid." You were being honest and straightforward. He apparently would rather put blinders on and enjoy sport sex than deal with human emotions.

All the turmoil you are going through is not your fault. It is Harlan's fault, for not allowing you to be yourself, and for thinking he owns you and has a right to tell you what you can and cannot feel. You fell in love. That happened because you and John simply had a connection -- you didn't fall in love on purpose to hurt your husband. If I were Sundrop, I would wonder if Harlan was just using me to get back at you.

Perhaps you should start looking at your relationship with John as your primary one, and let go of thinking that your marriage will ever be the same again. Unless and until Harlan stops being a brat, I don't see how it can ever be healthy again.

 

[lovinhimloviner]

It is extremely sad that you must go and hide in another room to feel your feelings. Your husband sounds quite immature emotionally and is being irrational, dictatorial, and possessive toward you and in what he wants. I hope he reads this! You should not feel that telling him you fell in love with his friend was "stupid." You were being honest and straightforward. He apparently would rather put blinders on and enjoy sport sex than deal with human emotions.

All the turmoil you are going through is not your fault. It is your husband's for not allowing you to be yourself, and for thinking he owns you and has a right to tell you what you can and cannot feel. You fell in love. That happened because you and J. simply had a connection -- you didn't fall in love on purpose to hurt your husband. If I were SunDrop, I would wonder if he was just using me to get back at you.

Perhaps you should start looking at your relationship with J., your bf, as your primary and let go of thinking that your marriage will ever be the same. Unless and until your husband stops being a brat, I don't see how it can ever be healthy again.

I appreciate all of the support I get on here. I would like to address a couple of things about this post. I don't HAVE to go in the other room to cry, but I know not seeing it makes it easier on Harlan. He might be emotionally immature. I don't know. I do know his family was not normal and he has had some issues with emotions and communication because of it. I feel Sundrop is having the same type of issues for the same reasons.

One of his long-term relationships in the past had problems when he, John and a woman had sex together. From this, John and the woman had sex without him. Harlan has still not forgiven him for this. It was a lifetime ago and John was a much different person back then.

I can't lay all of the responsibility on him for our problems, though. I know I'm not perfect. Harlan said the other night that he feels stupid sometimes, because he never knows there is something wrong with our relationship until I say there is.

I know without a shadow of a doubt that Harlan LOVES Sundrop unconditionally and fully. I cannot picture our life without her. She is family now. I worry that it won't be a healthy relationship, but I will not give up.

I have thought about Sundrop being his primary, and John being mine, but how does someone transition into something like that? I think it would make Harlan happier. It would make Sundrop feel better too. I know John would like it. I am sure I could pull it off, because that is basically how it feels now.

I knew this lifestyle would be hard. I didn't have any real clue how hard it could be to love two men and keep everyone happy. I guess one of my biggest problems is, it isn't my job to keep everyone happy. I just don't know how to let go of that feeling.

 

[IndieSolo]

I didn't have any real clue how hard it could be to love two men and keep everyone happy. I guess one of my biggest problems is it isn't my job to keep everyone happy. I just don't know how to let go of that feeling.

Yes, this is probably the most important realization to have. Each of you are 100% responsible for your own happiness, and to conduct yourselves with respect for everyone, and to treat each other the way you want to be treated. Seething with anger as your husband is doing, or running out of the room to cry just to protect him from seeing how you really feel, is not a healthy way to live. Nor is it respectful to your own inner processes.

You don't want to blame anyone else, but it is very apparent that your husband is the one who has dropped the ball when it comes to maintaining a healthy relationship with YOU. Therapy for both of you could help. He needs to stop throwing his hands up and claiming to be clueless about what's wrong, and start looking at how he operates in relationship. Furthermore, he needs to stop reacting angrily to your crying. You need to feel safe to be yourself in your own home.

John and she had sex without him. Harlan has not forgiven him for this. It was a lifetime ago . . .

This only reveals just how possessive he is. We can't own our loved ones.

I won't say any more. I don't want you to feel like I'm haranguing you. I wish you all the best.

 

[lovinhimloviner]

Yes, this is probably the most important realization to have. Each of you are 100% responsible for your own happiness, and to conduct yourselves with respect for everyone, and to treat each other the way you want to be treated.

Yes, this is very true. I am the one who broke this trust with my husband. I read something I shouldn't have, and broke the trust of two people I love. I may never get that back, although I pray I do.

 

[SNeacail]

I am the one who broke this trust with my husband. I read something I shouldn't have, and broke the trust of two people I love. I may never get that back, although I pray I do.

Trust can be rebuilt, but it will take time and effort. Just from what you have posted here, you and Harlan have a lot of unresolved and even some never touched-on issues and resentments between you. To me, it looks like you both have done things you shouldn't have, and broken each other's trust more than once. This is beginning to look like a series-- one person gets hurt and the other retaliates in some fashion, but no one is willing to actually discuss the hard, but very important, real issues. It just keep getting swept under the rug, while everyone is hoping it will just go away. I am completely baffled by what to me seems like a strong fight against getting professional help for your marriage (not for you alone, for the both of you together).

 

[lovinhimloviner]

Trust can be re-built, but it will take time and effort. Just from what you have posted here, you and your husband have a lot of unresolved, and never touched-on issues... It looks like you both have done things you shouldn't have, and broken each others trust more than once. This is beginning to look like a series-- one person gets hurt, and the other retaliates in some fashion, but no one is willing to actually discuss the hard but very important real issues. It just keep getting swept under the rug, while everyone is hoping it will just go away. I am completely baffled by what to me seems like a strong fight against getting professional help for your marriage (not for you alone, for the both of you together).

I really don't think he has broken my trust. Talking about our personal conversations with her, maybe, but he needs someone to talk to. We obviously aren't very good at communicating.

I wasn't trying to retaliate against him at all, at least, not that I know of. I just saw it up, and read one sentence, and took it all wrong. Had I not broken that trust, than there wouldn't even be an issue now. I do think it helped me come to terms with a few things and will make things better for me. It in no way helps anyone else. Not to mention he is mad, and I am sure she will be too, when she finds out. I never meant to break their trust at all. I care too much about them. I am sure we need counseling, and maybe one day that would be an option, but right now I don't think it is.

 

[lovinhimloviner]

I guess at this point I don't even know what the real issues even are.

 

[SNeacail]

I guess at this point I don't even know what the real issues even are.

Exactly my point, and why I am pushing that you guys need marriage counseling. A year ago, my husband and I entered counseling as a last ditch effort to keep me from filing for divorce. For years, neither of us felt like we could talk to the other person, for fear they would take it wrong and get upset, or we would be completely ignored. Both of us were making a LOT of assumptions about the other that could have easily been solved with a simple conversation (which we weren't capable of at the time). It wasn't until we started counseling that we learned what the real issues were. Some of what came out of those sessions shocked us both. We learned a great deal, especially how best to communicate with each other.

 

[Minxxa]

I really don't think he has broken my trust. Talking about our personal conversations with her, maybe, but he needs someone to talk to. We obviously aren't very good at communicating. I wasn't trying to retaliate against him at all, at least, not that I know of. I just saw it up, and read one sentence, and took it all wrong. Had I not broken that trust than there wouldn't even be an issue now. I do think it helped me come to terms with a few things and will make things better for me. It in no way helps anyone else. Not to mention he is mad and I am sure she will be too, when she finds out. I never meant to break their trust at all. I care too much about them. I am sure we need counseling, and maybe one day that would be an option, but right now I don't think it is.

I've been noticing something in all of your posts, mostly because it's something I have been doing all of my life as well. You are having an issue of one sort or another, and at some point you seem to be taking ALL of the responsibility for everything, and making it into something YOU need to fix, or a great big learning experience. Not that learning experiences aren't great, but why is it all up to you to do that?

My husband actually asked me that question last night, "Why is it always about YOU doing something different or fixing something to make it work?" Because I always come back to, "What can I do to fix this?" I had to think about it for a while, but for me it comes down to the overwhelming belief that if I don't fix it, nobody else will, because I'm not worth enough to anybody to do that kind of work. I think I'm finally to the point where I can't do that anymore. I have to do what's right for me, and speak my mind. If it works out, great, and if it isn't working out "Because I'm not doing everything to make it happen" then it wasn't meant to be. This is both a sad, and freeing realization.

Exactly my point, and why I am pushing that you guys need marriage counseling. A year ago my husband and I entered counseling as a last ditch effort to keep me from filing for divorce. For years neither of us felt like we could talk to the other person for fear they would take it wrong and get upset or we would be completely ignored. Both of us were making a LOT of assumptions about the other that could have easily been solved with a simple conversation (which we weren't capable of at the time). It wasn't until we started counceling that we learned what the real issues were. Some of what came out of those sessions shocked us both and we learned a great deal, especially how best to communicate with each other.

Agree.