Fighting "metamours," DnD argument

castle33

castle33

New member
Hi, gang. Been awhile since I posted. I'll make it fast.

My husband, a good male friend, and I all play D&D. Yesterday my hubby and friend (Dark Knight) got into a battle of pride and game rules. This fight has been brewing for a few weeks now.

I love my husband and I care deeply for Dark Knight. I wanted to have Knight as a boyfriend, but things never turn out the way we want, right? I have settled for a non-sexual "OMG I heart you" friendship with Knight, and hubby and Knight both know this.

My problem is that I feel my husband was in the wrong, even though the rule book of the game is on his side. I could care less about what they were fighting over (super tower shield vs. hit points and whatnot) but I hated being in the middle. I want to support my husband, but I also want my Knight to feel as if he is safe to Dungeon Master the way he chooses. I know I sound like a super geek, but I don't know how to let my husband know I'm with him, even though I don't agree with his choices, and at the same time be there for Knight as he deals with not always getting what he wants.

How do you guys deal with issues like this? Not the gaming, but disagreements in general, basically two men fighting over something small, but it really being about more than just a game. Knight is angry because our D&D group is turning on him. Hubby is upset because he wants to "put Knight in his place."

At this point they are still both standing on their soap boxes and I just want them to calm down and remember that we are all playing because it's fun and we like each other.

How can I tell them both that I am on their sides without starting a war?

I know it seems simple and geek-like, but gaming is what brings us all together. It is what we do. I love them both and just need help mediating.

Does this even make sense?

A little history: I am poly, been poly for years and years. My husband is poly-minded and still new to this. Dark Knight knows nothing about poly stuff, but has remained my friend even though he knows I like him. But he is not interested in exploring anything at this time. Maybe never. I'm okay with that.

I will say that seeing them get all puffy with each other turns me on, but only if I know they both care enough to still be friends and continue gaming together. I don't think hubby realizes how hurt I would be if Knight were to be pushed away.

*end rant*

Thoughts???
 
My thoughts are: stay out of it. It's not your place to solve their issues. If you're uncomfortable listening to the disagreement, leave the room.
 
Miss Derby, I tried that... sort of. Not really... Okay, I'm an idiot. :)

About a week before the fight yesterday I knew shit was a-brewin.' I told them both if they were going to fight about it, then at least make if fun for me, i.e., shirts off, pool full of Jell-O, you get the point. While sitting at the table and playing, they were both pissed and I made a silly comment about shirts and Jell-O and hubby snapped. He said I was instigating. Maybe I was. I am not sure yet. I just wanted to keep things fun and not so serious.

Oh god, men and D&D... Both guys were not in the mood for my jokes, so I got up, went outside and smoked a cig, then started dinner. I let them both be asses. Knight finished the mission and left without eating. Hubby checked to see if I was okay (cool points to hubby) but I was still a bit sad.

Things are okay now. I just wanted to know if this is what happens when multiple people come together for one reason or another (poly game freaks). How do I fit in when it comes to fights? So far, I have stayed out of it. I have checked and talked with both men to see how they are feeling about it all. It looks like they are moving on, but still waiting for our next mission to kill the crap out of each other. Progress? I'm not sure. But it makes it fun. At least we are still on to play this weekend.

Thanks for reading.
 
Is this the biggest or only thing you people fight about? I'd say you have it better than most people. Have you ever had any REAL problems in your relationship(s)? Like you know, illness, injury, financial hardship? I think you need some perspective and maybe should go for a walk or something more often. A REAL walk, OUTSIDE, by yourself or with people, not part of a d&d scenario.

tl;dr #firstworldproblems
 
Definitely definitely stay out of it. I'm a geek gamer myself, and I know that our kind get way too serious about this sort of thing, poly dynamics aside. There's really nothing you can do that won't either make things worse between them, make them mad at you, or both. You can tell them, kindly, privately, and separately that you don't like their behavior, but don't take sides.

"I told them both if they were going to fight about it then at least make if fun for me. i.e., shirts off, pool full of Jell-O, you get the point."

How would you feel if your guy was in love with another woman, and you had a problem with her, and he made that same joke? I bet you'd feel objectified, belittled, and pissed.
 
Actually, my advice is to sit them both down, explain that you think they are bringing other issues into D&D and it's ruining it for everyone! Let them know they need to leave personal issues at the door or end up destroying the entire group.

I speak from D&D poly experience. Before DH and I knew what poly was, we met a couple. We loved the couple. We became like best friends, and then more. There were jokes about being married, all four of us.

We played D&D. We had fun.

Then we found out, the hard way, that the woman of the other couple had rules we were not made privy to. Specifically, when sexual things went on she had to be there. Most of the time she was. Hell, she was the center of attention. (Yep, me sitting naked in a corner bored and cold while two men pleasured her till she passed out. End game.)

She even got to sexually play with her partner and mine while I wasn't around or made aware.

Yet, one time her bf came over to have dinner with us and there was some making out. She didn't handle it well. She made catty comments the entire game. I was being ripped apart and had no idea why! The entire group knew something was up and had no idea what I had done or what had caused her to suddenly hate me. We tried for a sit down talk all four of us and got nowhere. As far as she was concerned, she had been feeling insecure, so was valid in ripping me apart and felt no need to apologize.

I was heartsick. The group broke up because I could not go back and play. I just couldn't.

Hubby at first felt things would work better if I just 'got over it' and people could be friends again. Many years later, when he visited them and found that she still refused to 'forgive' me, or apologize for her own behavior, he gave up, and apologized to me for taking their side against me.


TL;DR: Talk to them both and tell them to play the game and keep personal out of it, or risk destroying the game forever and losing the group and friends. Dick-measuring contests aren't part of D&D.
 
@BoringGuy, you get nothing.

@everyone else, staying out of it was the best option. I do, however, have a hard time believing that when two men I both care for fight I am just supposed to act like nothing is wrong. this time it was just a gamer's fight, but what happens when it is a fight over something more serious?

Also, my husband and I have been up and down with each other. We started gaming together so that we have some common ground. It is what repaired our relationship. For some, gaming is just a hobby. For us, it has been a way to find the love we lost. So... yeah. It's a pretty big fucking deal in my house.

The guys had a chance to talk face-to-face today and all is well. I am no longer worried about how things will turn out. I am still learning how to make our relationship run smooth and as clean as it can. Please do not judge me for this. Thank you all for reading and sharing. Except BoringGuy. He has no idea who he is talking to. I would go outside, but it has been raining in Germany now for three weeks straight. D&D and MTG are the only things keeping us all sane right now. I say this as a true rain lover.
 
@Annabel, I would feel awesome. I'm not one of those folks that get all worked up about sexism. I get your point and I do understand that most people may feel the same as you, but if the situation were in reverse, I would have gladly fought it out over Jell-O and mud. I would have filmed it and made money off of it. Porn is good for me.
 
I would go outside but it has been raining in Germany now for three weeks straight. D&D and MTG are the only things keeping us all sane right now. I say this as a true rain lover.
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Don't they have umbrellas in Germany? I ask this as a fellow true rain lover.

Rain is not just water. It can also be a great excuse to stay indoors and fight about D&D.
 
castle33 said:
@Annabel, I would feel awesome. I'm not one of those folks that get all worked up about sexism. I get your point, and I do understand that most people may feel the same as you, but if the situation were in reverse I would have gladly fought it out over Jell-O and mud. I would have filmed it and made money off of it. Porn is good for me.
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You need to have GalaGirl explain the so-called "platinum rule" to you. It's something about not bringing your partner coffee the way you like it, but the way they like it.

But I'm not surprised you can't see that, if your entire marriage is held together by a fantasy roleplaying game.
 
castle33 said:
My problem is that I feel my husband was in the wrong, even though the rule book of the game is on his side.
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Why is it you feel he was wrong? Just how he went all ruleNazi and wasn't graceful about it when challenged? I imagine you've said even though he was right you didn't appreciate the way he made something you think wasn't a big deal a big deal. You don't have to choose to be in the middle anymore than you would if somebody else was DMing, or Dark Knight had a problem with another player who wasn't your partner.

Anyway, don't mediate. They are friends, right? Let them work it out themselves. I can't picture somebody telling me that even though I was right they think I am wrong, and feeling supported, so I'd rather just have them say they love me, but wish I could let it go for the sake of the gaming group, and leave it at that. Maybe set up a plan for how to deal with it if there's another rule issue that comes up down the line. If you think it needs to be mediated, is there a non-you player who would be willing to, considering you think its more about you liking DK than it is the game?

With a partner who worked for Wizards of the Coast for a decade, I feel pretty confident in saying the final word goes to the DM. Apparently it says on the first page of the rule book that the rules are only a suggestion. I'd make sure my whole group came to a consensus that DM's word truly is is final. I'd tell DK that I hoped he'd good-naturedly acknowledge if he isn't following them it's for good gameplay reasons, and not just to be a jerk. I don't know how he acted in the tiff, but all DMs should expect that people will no longer choose to play if they feel the DM is unfair on a regular basis.

Seriously, what BG said for big-picture stuff, though...
 
castle33 said:
Knight is angry because our D&D group is turning on him and the hubby is upset because he wants to "put Knight in his place."
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Games are a great way to figure out who people really are, or at least a great way to expose things they seriously need to work on. Shan Yu would say to dangle them over a volcano; I say just sit them down with a game of Monopoly and watch the true colors fly!!

Hubby has made his point, pulled out rules to prove it, and now needs to shut up. It's not his game and he doesn't get to make the rules for the DM. If he doesn't like the way Knight runs the group, then he needs to run his own game and not play in Knight's. Problem solved.

Knight needs to recognize that the rules simply do not support the way he wants to run his game. Then he needs to decide if he's going to change the game, or change the rules, but he needs to do so with an even hand, applying the rule to good guys and bad guys.

You have the same options as hubby: Shut it, or shut it and do not play in Knight's game.
 
To those responding with scorn or derision because it is a "game", please don't delegitimize someone else's emotional investment in something they are passionate about just because it isn't something that interests you. Plenty of people get deeply emotionally involved in sports even though they're "just games" too.

If it helps you to see the situation through your personal filter, just pretend the original poster said "music theory" or "politics" or whatever you happen to be passionate about. The fact is, when there is tension between two people it often crops up in unrelated areas, such as games (or political discussions, or sports rivalries, or whatever). Ignoring the underlying issue that she's asking about in lieu of pointing out that you personally would not be emotionally invested in a game is not particularly helpful.
 
Well, thank you very much, Forum Police. Crikey.

I personally, was not posting out of scorn or derision. I am asking if this is a real post because it seems quite unbelievable to me. First world problem, yes, but also hard to understand that two adult men could get so attached to the outcome of a game or hobby that it affects their relationships.

OP, if this is true that your men are still arguing or in conflict over such trivialities, perhaps you could remind them that while they are having their tantrums over a GAME, there are people dying and being tortured in wars, others suffering from lack of clean water and food, and children being abandoned and abused, and all that is very REAL. So they should consider themselves lucky that they have this hobby, which at the least is a stress-reliever, while other people are trying to survive for REAL, so it's time to grow up and start counting their blessings!!!

If the game is supposed to be for fun, there's no reason to be enemies over it in real life.
 
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WingedVictory said:
Ignoring the underlying issue that she's asking about in lieu of pointing out that you personally would not be emotionally invested in a game is not particularly helpful.
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Well said, WV.

While the nature of the disagreement might not seem reasonable to some, that certainly doesn't diminish the fact that the issue at hand is people being controlling and prideful. This is a common issue in many relationships covering numerous issues. On *that* I think we can all connect.

PLUS this is the ONE CHANCE I have to mix my role-playing and poly experience in the SAME POST!

http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=485
I just did a quick Google search; there's tons of this stuff out there with great advice (mainly group dynamic stuff)
 
Thank you, guys, for the few non-judgmental replies. I understand that it is just a game. I also know that it does have more to do with my feelings than the rules of D&D. There was no screaming or actual fighting, just uncomfortable silence while rules were tested, followed by two men puffing their feathers.

I don't know if the entire OP was read, but the argument ruined the dinner. Knight left without eating. When I talked to him online later he told me he was starving. I also tried to pack him food to go, but he declined. After he told me later that he was hungry, I asked why he did not take the food I packed. He told me it was because of pride. He knew how silly it was to pass on food. Because of it, and his pride, he went hungry for the night. Feeding the men I love is very important to me, even more so when we are in a country far from home. Knight is here all alone. I cook daily for my husband, even when I do not feel like it. Sunday is the day Knight gets to have real food cooked by someone that cares about him.

It's not just about games.

Hubby also calmed down later and told me he understood why I was unhappy. Both men told me why they did and said what they felt was right. They also explained that they knew why the other was upset. This is big for us. Progress in dealing with feelings is harder than it sounds.

I mentioned above that I knew gaming was an "easy" fight to deal with. I also asked what would have happened if the fight had been about something bigger.

This was the first real issue the three of us have had. That does not mean it is less meaningful.

I have been coming here for years. I have never had so many snippy replies before. I know BoringGuy has his own way of talking to people and I am okay with that, but I do understand how some newcomers may feel when they are treated the way I was in this thread. it's a crappy way to be treated when opening up about your personal life. People come here for help, not rudeness.

@Marcus, we should start a poly D&D fantasy world. We could call it Pippsy Hollow. lol
 
castle33 said:
Knight left without eating. When I talked to him online later he told me he was starving. I also tried to pack him food to go, but he declined. After he told me later that he was hungry, I asked why he did not take the food I packed. He told me it was because of pride.
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Pride is a dumb reason to make decisions. All of the times in my life I've made decisions based on what I would have called pride I can safely say they were all dumb reasons to make a decision. It's a very childish clinging to "being right," when it is very clear that we are, in fact, not right.

These boys and their dumb pride need to be handled, but, as others have said, this isn't your concern. You seem to be internalizing their conflict, of which you are neither the cause nor the cure. You can keep trying to mediate, but all you will do is cause yourself grief and potentially prompt them to make rush changes in their behavior due to their guilt of making you feel bad.

castle33 said:
this was the first real issue the three of us have had. that does not mean it is less meaningful.
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And this light issue is a perfect opportunity to practice positive relationship techniques for when a "real" issue comes up. You practicing how to deal with issues that truly are not (in any way) your business, their practicing dealing with issues surrounding dumb responses like pride... all good things to be better at.

castle33 said:
I have been coming here for years. I have never had so many snippy replies before. I know BoringGuy has his own way of talking to people, and I am okay with that, but I do understand how some newcomers may feel when they are treated the way I was in this thread. it's a crappy way to be treated when opening up about your personal life. People come here for help. not rudeness.
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Eh, I've been a table-top gamer all of my adult life, and I have long since learned that those experiences (while amusing stories at times) are not widely accepted examples of "hard-fought lessons." :)

That aside, sometimes rudeness is a valuable tool in a format like this. It's also kind of a natural side effect of a format like this.

castle33 said:
We should start a poly D&D fantasy world. We could call it Pippsy Hollow. lol
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While I may disagree on the name, I'll still sign up!
 
Okay, everyone. THE FIGHTING IS OVER! It was over the next morning. I mentioned that. If I didn't, then sue me.

Yes, this is a real post.
Yes, gaming is a big deal to me.

It was said above that this fight is not my business. Hell yes, it is. It's my house, my husband, my friend, and they fucked my night up. So how is it not my business?

And for those of you that think it's just a game and people are dying, starving, etc., hubby and Knight spend their days working in those horrible war-torn places, so you don't have to. Forgive me if I like games, because it is the only thing that can keep their minds off the stuff they have seen and done while deployed.

I don't tell other people, "Oh, your husband cheated on you and broke your heart??? Well, suck it up cause babes be dyin' out there!"

Everyone has problems, big and small. To tell me that mine should matter less...TO ME, because other folks have "real" issues, is just silly.

I am no great Nobel Prize-winning writer. I am sorry if I did not explain everything clearly. It was a small disagreement over D&D. I wanted to share on this nice poly site because I am poly. Two men I am in relationships with had a problem. I needed to share my thoughts and feelings on the matter.

You guys may not understand, but because of the boy's jobs, I can not tell anyone else here about it. The lot of you are all I have. So thanks for your time.
 
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