Hubs & his gf: good news/troubling news

[KittenPuff]

This is long, so skip to the end for the TL/DR version...

So, I had dinner last night with my husband and his girlfriend. It went well. I really like her and she seems to like me, too. This is grand. We seem to be off to a good start with our V arrangement, which is nice because it is his and my first experience with poly at all. He told me it was novel for her, too, because she has not been in a relationship where she and the wife have wanted to meet or get to know much about each other.

We all drove separately so I left first to allow them some time together. They just started dating and are enjoying some intense NRE that is surprising to both of them as well as the others in their kink/poly community who know them. I am surprised at how OK I am with this intense connection they seem to have with each other--there is a little jealousy on my part, but more because I am sad for me that I don't have someone to spend time with and less because my husband is happy. I admit there is a little bit of not-good-enough feeling on my part, but I own that as my issue and I definitely have compersion for them. The feels, they are complex.

Anyway, he was gone a lot longer after dinner than I thought he would be, but I was ok with that. I live with him; she doesn't get to see him much. But when he got home he apologized for being so late and said they'd had a long conversation because he is struggling with the thought that she will still be dating other men. Again, we are totally new to poly and he wasn't sure if he could handle it and apparently still isn't. He knows intellectually that it's right for her to date others, and it's fair for her to ask him to share her when she and I are sharing him. But he has some jealousy around it and she is worried that if she just has my husband, she will get unhealthily attached to him. I am conflicted about even knowing this information because it feels very personal about her, but I also know that communication is vital and I feel like she and I should know how the other feels because our feelings about him and this relationship have the potential to affect all of us. And since he is the hinge, it comes down to him to make sure that communication is happening. When she and I know each other better, perhaps we can have these conversations between us and I will know what she is comfortable sharing with me and vice versa. This is complicated. I try to keep private conversations private and it's difficult to tell here what should be shared and what shouldn't.

I have gotten good advice and feedback here, so I am here to ask if there is any way I can help him with these feelings or is he just on his own to figure this stuff out. I have moments of jealousy but I am usually good about rethinking a situation until I can feel better about it. He doesn't seem to be able to do that. I don't know if I can teach him or if he's even interested in learning.

I honestly feel a little guilty about sharing so much about their feelings and concerns, but I would like some insight from some more experienced poly peeps and details are needed in order to present the situation. I have no idea if anyone who sees this will know who we are or not. I hope I haven't overstepped any confidences as that is not my intention. I don't even know if hubs and gf are on this forum...

TL/DR: Hubs is struggling with the thought of his new gf dating other men. I am dealing amazingly well with him dating her. Can I help him work through his feelings and if so, how?

 

[KittenPuff]

Does no one have any insight here? or did I break some kind of rule I don't know about and I'm now being shunned? or am I just a clueless noob and I need to figure this out by myself? I'm embarrassed and want to delete this post because I'm afraid I shared too much, but I can't figure out if that's even possible. Can someone help me with that?

 

[Natja]

Calm down, maybe no one has the appropriate experience, I know I don't.

 

[AnnabelMore]

I honestly don't think it's possible to share too much as long as you don't provide any identifying details, which you didn't. We're all strangers scattered across the globe with no hope of ever finding out who you really are or affecting your real lives... so what's there to be embarrassed about? It's ok. And I can promise that no one is shunning you, if people thought you'd said something dumb, they wouldn't hesitate to say so, people are very straightforward here.

That said, yeah, no real advice except that it's incumbent on him to work this out. It's REALLY not fair of him to let his insecurities stand in the way of her having the same freedom he does, to have more than one partner, especially when she's expressed that she thinks it would be the more emotionally healthy thing for her. Encourage him to read the stuff on jealousy at www.morethantwo.com or at many other excellent sources, and help talk him through how you learned that loving someone who also loves someone else doesn't take away from what you have.

 

[franchescasc]

For what it's worth

It really depends on what kind of support your husband wants from you. I know in my relationship with MD, when she started showing interest in her ex and we were still together, I just needed space to work through my feelings. I knew my hubs was there if I needed to talk through something, but journaling was my best help. I also had a friend I talked to who was very helpful. I just felt uncomfortable dumping my relationship issues onto my husband. He was willing-but it just wasn't helpful for me.

 

[Cleo]

Hi KittenPuff,

not all threads get replies, sometimes people who would be just the ones to have insight for you on a particular matter, are absent from the boards for a while. Keep posting and asking, I also don't think you over shared at all!

as to your question: from my own personal experience I would say it's best to let the 2 of them deal with this on their own. It's their relationship. If your husband comes to you and wants to talk, you talk - if not, let him figure things out at his own pace. Everyone does these things differently and processes differently.

 

[KittenPuff]

Thanks, everybody. I appreciate the feedback. I know everybody doesn't check everything every day. It's just hard when the internet is my only friend (at least as far as this situation is concerned) and I can't get a response right away. I waited, but I just couldn't believe NOBODY had anything to offer. Then I feel childish for posting again, but I guess it worked.

I'll direct him to the More Than Two site again. I've told him about it, but I have more time to read up on things, since he's out with her and I'm home. However, it would definitely do him some good to make time to do a little research.

 

[BigGuy]

I disagree that it is his responsibility to ensure that you communicate with her. He can help facilitate, but he shouldn't be responsible. In the end, it's up to you to make sure that happens.

Your question is how to help someone who has feelings of jealousy or is concerned about becoming jealous. Jealousy is a phobic response. Often it is an irrational fear. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy offers insight in how to convert intellectual knowledge into emotional knowledge. I suggest you check into this resource as well.

 

[KittenPuff]

I disagree that it is his responsibility to ensure that you communicate with her. He can help facilitate, but he shouldn't be responsible. In the end, it's up to you to make sure that happens.

Your question is how to help someone who has feelings of jealousy or is concerned about becoming jealous. Jealousy is a phobic response. Often it is an irrational fear. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy offers insight in how to convert intellectual knowledge into emotional knowledge. I suggest you check into this resource as well.

Thank you. This gives me plenty to think about.

I think what I meant when I said "it comes down to him to make sure that communication is happening" is not that this is how it should be, but just how it is right now. But I may have meant it the way you read it. I keep thinking and thinking about all this and I keep changing my mind about what things mean. He is careful to do his part to check in with each of us, but he's not facilitating communications between her and me--I know that's up to her and me. In the same vein, THEY need to talk through THEIR issues with each other and I'm not sure that any of that is any of my business beyond how the results of these discussions will affect me.

To further complicate things, I am introverted when it comes to strangers and I have trouble talking to people I don't know very well and I get the impression that she is similar in that regard. For whatever reason, I feel like it's too early in all this for us to exchange numbers or be Facebook friends. When will it be time to do that? I don't know. I don't know how this works. It takes me years (literally!) to feel comfortable about calling friends I've made on my own unless they call me first. How do I work up the nerve to talk to my husband's girlfriend?

Sadly, he's not likely to consider CBT or any other type of therapy. Perhaps if she suggests it... And I don't know how many therapists in our area and on our insurance plan would be poly friendly. If they can't work this out on their own, I may try to get him to seek professional help. I agree that jealousy is an irrational fear. Sometimes we just have to let go of what we want to happen and hope for the best.

 

[london]

I'd be genuinely worried he wants a monogamous relationship with her.

 

[KittenPuff]

I'd be genuinely worried he wants a monogamous relationship with her.

He doesn't want a monogamous relationship with her, he wants her to be monogamous with him while he maintains relationships with both of us. But I see what you mean. It is worrisome.

 

[Marcus]

He knows intellectually that it's right for her to date others, and it's fair for her to ask him to share her when she and I are sharing him. But he has some jealousy around it and she is worried that if she just has my husband, she will get unhealthily attached to him.

This seems like the central theme that should be looked at. Some polyamorous couples who function under a primary/secondary/tertiary structure view what they are doing as "sharing" their partners. Others (like myself) find this to be antithetical to relating to individuals as adults. I think it should be very relevant to you to explore your feelings of ownership and control because a hierarchical relationship in which controlling parties "share" their partners to a particular degree is fundamentally different from a relationship where an individual relates to other individuals. These two poly structures are as different from each other as poly is from monogamy and function by an entirely different set of principles. (I didn't realize that until I first visited these boards, I just assumed everyone did it the way I did)

Really this is just in an effort to help you understand who you are asking advice from... because I (for example) can't offer you advice on how to function in a hierarchical relationship except that I advise you not to do it

I feel like she and I should know how the other feels because our feelings about him and this relationship have the potential to affect all of us.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Many events happening with our SO(s) and matamours, have an effect on our lives to some degree or another; their day at work, how traffic was, how they are getting along with their siblings, etc. I'm not sure how this fact has any bearing on what information should be shared by them; they share the information they want to share... right?

And since he is the hinge, it comes down to him to make sure that communication is happening.

It comes down to him to make sure that he is communicating what HE needs to communicate about HIMSELF. Everyone else needs to be in charge of their own communication. Period.

I have gotten good advice and feedback here, so I am here to ask if there is any way I can help him with these feelings or is he just on his own to figure this stuff out...I don't know if I can teach him or if he's even interested in learning.

If it were just a friend you were talking about, would you feel compelled to "help" him with his feelings? If so, maybe that is just how you relate to your intimate folks. Some people give advice or offer to work through difficult issues with people they know ... others don't find it to be their business and only offer help if it is explicitly requested.

 

[Marcus]

he wants her to be monogamous with him while he maintains relationships with both of us.

He doesn't get to decide what she does with her life any more than I get to decide what you do with yours. Using "but I love you" or "but we are in a relationship" as an excuse to exercise control over another human beings autonomy is an interesting version of "love".

 

[KittenPuff]

Really this is just in an effort to help you understand who you are asking advice from... because I (for example) can't offer you advice on how to function in a hierarchical relationship except that I advise you not to do it

I don't understand what you mean by this. Many events happening with our SO(s) and matamours, have an effect on our lives to some degree or another; their day at work, how traffic was, how they are getting along with their siblings, etc. I'm not sure how this fact has any bearing on what information should be shared by them; they share the information they want to share... right?

If it were just a friend you were talking about, would you feel compelled to "help" him with his feelings? If so, maybe that is just how you relate to your intimate folks. Some people give advice or offer to work through difficult issues with people they know ... others don't find it to be their business and only offer help if it is explicitly requested.

Thank you, Marcus. I've seen you respond to a lot of people here and I always value what you have to say. I am spending a lot (possibly too much) of my time exploring my feelings and figuring out exactly what it is I feel and why and what I can do about it, because I am the only one who CAN do anything about my feelings. I also need to figure out how to best express my feelings and thoughts. You point out some good things and I appreciate it. I think your input will be helpful to me once I am able to process it. I think this needs to be a nonhierarchical relationship, but I need to figure out how that works and I have zero models to look at. I feel like I'm inventing something that already exists but I still don't know how to go about it.

I know I keep saying this, but it's all so new to me. I think I can handle anything as long as I have time to figure out how to handle it. But this is moving very quickly and I am not handling it well. I feel very lonely right now and spend more time lamenting my loneliness than I do processing my feelings. I need to change my focus.

I agree that he doesn't get to decide what she does with her life and I know I also don't get to decide what either of them does with theirs. It seems very weird to me that he thinks he has that right.

I like your point about her feelings having no real bearing on me. I think I need to print that out and paste it on my bathroom mirror. Really, her life is none of my business. And I need to ask him keep their conversations between them and our conversations between us.

I need to accept that, ultimately, his feelings about her and what she does are his to figure out and work out with her. I do actually offer to help my close friends work through things and let it go if they don't want to. Most people I figure will tell me what they want me to know and otherwise it's not my business. This situation feels like more of my business that I guess it really is. I also need to let go of this idea that he's mine. I am really trying not to make me the most important person, something I though I was almost good at before all this. I guess I have fears about my welfare because I am dependent on him emotionally, socially, and financially. I'm also struggling with this realization that I've handed all my power over to him which is another thing to celebrate at my hourly pity parties.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I'll stop now.

 

[Marcus]

I think this needs to be a nonhierarchical relationship, but I need to figure out how that works and I have zero models to look at. I feel like I'm inventing something that already exists but I still don't know how to go about it.

That's a really good point. I am fortunate to be with IV because she and CV have been non-hierarchical for 9+ years and it is like clockwork. Watching them be loving and supportive while staying out of each others business is educational and I can benefit from their experience as I'm fine tuning my worldview.

Maybe you can get hooked up in your local poly community (if there is one). Being around folks of like mind might help reduce some of the feeling of being on an island.

I need to change my focus.

Damn that's sexy. Good for you.

I talk a lot about taking responsibility for your feelings, not getting into other peoples business, and respecting autonomy as a central strategy but that is my expressing my principles - not necessarily a statement of the purity of my track record.

This shit can be difficult; I live in a world that is constantly reenforcing ideologies that are antithetical to how I want to live my life. Sometimes it feels like a constant struggle to put my money where my mouth is an actually live the principles I set forth for myself. It's easier said that done, but all we can do is keep learning and keep trying.

 

[Nox]

Kitten,

I've never wanted my gf's to be monogamous, BUT have experienced jealousy. It stemmed from both competition and insecurity as in, "I'm afraid she'll like the new person better than she likes me."

Eventually I learned it's not about competition (that makes things worse), and she's obviously into me or we wouldn't spend so much time together. Things can change, but that's going to happen regardless of whether there's another person involved or not. There's friends and family that takes up time regardless of whether there is romance involved.

There's really no way to get around it other than trust, and that takes time. But it does come.

 

[KittenPuff]

Maybe you can get hooked up in your local poly community (if there is one). Being around folks of like mind might help reduce some of the feeling of being on an island.

That occurred to me, but the local poly community is also the local kink/BDSM community; they call themselves Fringe. As an asexual, I worry about my comfort level hanging out with people who are VERY comfortable with their sexuality and their kinks. It's also the community where he met her and I feel like it's their turf (there's my ownership mentality again). There is a weekly social meeting and I kind of want to go and kind of don't for the above reasons. He did say he might talk to them about reaching out to asexuals to provide space for us to meet. I just don't know that there are very many of us around here--probably fewer than 10 who know what they are and aces seem to be more likely to be introverted. I should probably avoid defeating the idea before we even try it, though.

I started an OKCupid account to try to make some new friends to hang out with on nights when he's out, but the onslaught of idiots who don't read my profile and go straight to propositioning me is mind-numbing. I even included an unflattering picture, to discourage that. I may have no choice but to hang with the Fringe crowd, or at least try it for an evening or two.

I did talk to my friend yesterday. I'm so bad about asking for time from my friends, but my husband called her and asked her to call me. She could never embrace poly for herself and doesn't understand it, but she makes no judgments and loves me tremendously--as I love her. It helps to have someone to vent to, but there's still that feeling of not being fully understood. I guess more a peninsula than an island, that feeling.

I talk a lot about taking responsibility for your feelings, not getting into other peoples business, and respecting autonomy as a central strategy but that is my expressing my principles - not necessarily a statement of the purity of my track record.

Me too! I give myself very good advice but I very rarely follow it. Another thing I need to work on. Gah! All this self-improvement!

 

[AnnabelMore]

For the record, the sex-positive people that I know accept that asexuality is real and valid more easily than most of society. Being really secure with sexuality means being accepting of sexual differences, including the desire NOT to have sex. You can also do BDSM without bringing sex into it, plenty of people do that.

Now, can you be sure that this particular group shares that philosophy? Nope! Might you end up seeing highly sexual behavior when hanging with them? Maybe! But I'm just saying, don't assume that you wouldn't fit in just because you're asexual, it could be quite the opposite.

 

[Eponine]

I think this needs to be a nonhierarchical relationship, but I need to figure out how that works and I have zero models to look at.

The solo poly blog has some very good posts about how to treat primary and non-primary partners with equal respect ("non-primary" only means not married/living together/sharing finances/etc, but they're not lesser than primary partners, which makes them different from "secondary partners"), such as this one.

The relationship anarchy manifesto linked in Marcus' signature offers good guidelines too, especially "love and respect instead of entitlement" I think. It's much simpler when you drop all the titles and just treat everyone you love as individuals you love.

I started an OKCupid account to try to make some new friends to hang out with on nights when he's out, but the onslaught of idiots who don't read my profile and go straight to propositioning me is mind-numbing. I even included an unflattering picture, to discourage that. I may have no choice but to hang with the Fringe crowd, or at least try it for an evening or two.

My attempt to meet new friends (and potential partners) on OKC turned out to be a fiasco, or a waste of time at least. Meeting "just friends" (how I hate this phrase!) from a dating site seems to be beyond most people's comprehension. Now I'm happy enough to just make friends from AVEN and other forums. Granted, they're all long-distance, but the most genuine conversations I had on OKC were all with long-distance matches anyway...

I encourage you to try hanging out with the Fringe group. Who knows, it may turn out better than you think!

 

[KittenPuff]

For the record, the sex-positive people that I know accept that asexuality is real and valid more easily than most of society. Being really secure with sexuality means being accepting of sexual differences, including the desire NOT to have sex. You can also do BDSM without bringing sex into it, plenty of people do that.

Now, can you be sure that this particular group shares that philosophy? Nope! Might you end up seeing highly sexual behavior when hanging with them? Maybe! But I'm just saying, don't assume that you wouldn't fit in just because you're asexual, it could be quite the opposite.

Good points. Then I'm left with feeling like it's J & L's (hubs and gf) turf and I would be intruding. I feel like when I talked to him about it last night, he... well, to be honest when I think about it now, I feel like he gaslighted me and I fell for it. He kept saying, "I'm not saying you shouldn't go, but will you be comfortable?" Which seemed unreasonable because we would be in separate cars and I can leave at any time I need to. I feel like he was trying to discourage me from going while saying that's not what he was doing. Now I'm getting mad about it and I have too many assumptions about what took place during that conversation last night. Which means we need to have another conversation...