It's a Texlahoma Story

And now back to our regularly scheduled poly musings ...

Bluebird said:
It's okay to want to have something special with your partner - a family, a home, retirement etc. But if your husband falls in love with another who greatly wants that, is he going to be able to just dump her because you want that only for yourself? Once you start opening up, other people's emotions are involved, and it isn't fair to treat them as less than, if they didn't know that they were supposed to stay in a primary-secondary model.
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This, right here, is where everything gets wonky for me. Especially because hierarchical poly has somehow become an evil thing, so telling someone up front that you're looking for a secondary relationship is just as bad as *not* telling them.

It's funny that I agonize about this so much, since nothing remotely close has ever happened to me or any poly people I know in real life. We all just go into dating new people being very upfront - married, not looking for a nesting relationship, if you want that, we're not a good match!

I guess I just devote a lot of brain space to worrying about anything that could so completely derail my life. If either Andy or I ever wanted the same shape of relationship with another partner... Heartbreak. For me, him, the other person, or all three.

All I can really do is continue to be honest, I guess. I can love other partners wholeheartedly, but that "person I come home to every night" role is not open.

nycindie said:
It's also amazing to me how often we see people come here looking for help because they are in extremely unhealthy, toxic, and even abusive relationships but they stay because they think poly means they have to put up with shit they would never endure if they were in a monogamous relationship, but mostly because it's "But I love him/her so much!"

I wish someone would give me a dollar for every time I wrote here that love is not enough to make a relationship work, and be healthy and satisfying.
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I think these exact thoughts All. The. Time. It does seem like staying in unsatisfying or just plain shitty relationships happens more in poly than in monogamy.

I'm sure part of it is the idea that we don't need to get all our needs met from one person... Sometimes that turns into keeping relationships that aren't meeting ANY needs. And let's face it, poly partners are hard to find. Maybe the scarcity makes us settle for less than we deserve?

But there's something more, I think, something I can't quite put my finger on. That "love is enough!!!" mentality, maybe :confused:
 
Had a huge fight with Andy this morning :(

Not about anything poly related. About his razor. I threw out the week old blade, and moved it from the shower to the razor stand by the sink the other day. He came down this morning literally in tears about it. Apparently he sees this as some sort of passive aggressive move on my part. I can't even.

Fuck you, Andy's depression.

The worst part is that this is not the first time something completely innocuous has tripped him up. I am so tired of walking on eggshells. I am not good at it. I just want to live normally and not worry about his mood. Trying to think ten steps ahead about how he will react to something is too much for my anxiety levels.

When I calm down a little I'm going to write him a letter, and tell him this. I'm also going to explain that right now, when he's triggered so easily, I need to be in charge of less of his shit. Because it's frequently something like this, me doing something for him and him interpreting it as a criticism. Cook something healthier than normal, and I'm policing his food intake. Hang a pair pants at the back of the closet, and I'm making a dig at his clothing choices.

So, for my sanity, I either need very explicit instructions or to just go hands off for a while. Make a list of the things I need to buy/do and if it's not on that list, I'm not touching it. If you don't specifically ask for my help, then you can do your own laundry, pick your own dinner. I HATE having to be that way... Feels like retaliating ... But it is hard enough to get the household shit done, trying to guess what will freak him out is beyond what I can handle. I can't think of any other way to deal with it that doesn't leave me completely emotionally and mentally fried.

Ugh ugh ugh.
 
You have my sympathies in living through depression times with Andy. They suck. And I can only imagine how draining it is.

Back to the poly musing though... your fears of future relationships being disruptive are most probably unlikely given how you and Andy communicate to others about your relationship but not unreasonable.

When I met real, I was in a open reletionship with my partner of 4 years. We were all four basically looking for a swinger friends with benefits couple to hang with etc. It was meant to be a "secondary" thing. But no matter what we honestly meant when we started things changed. Suddenly we weren't so good at fitting in the mold we had designed for the real/playful connection. My first partner was connecting with his other girlfriend the way real and I were so that relationship changed. Lady freaked out a bit. We had long talks about what we wanted etc.

We've worked out our way. Our longterm plan involves the multifamily housing or mutually/equally owned home options that you dread. If I ever get comfortable with the idea of sharing my finances etc with lady. This was not the plan at the beginning for any of us. People are messy and things change. Not always but sometimes and that thought is scary.
 
Andy texted an apology a few minutes after I posted this morning... I'm still hurt though. I hate how his depression makes him see me as the bad guy, always out to get him. Maybe that's not entirely accurate :confused: I think his self esteem is just so low that he sees everything through some weird filter. All I know is I cannot wait for spring and the end of the SAD season!

Playfulgirl - your story is just, I don't even know, awe-inspiring to me somehow. I guess I feel like I am too petty and stubborn of a person to do what you are doing.

I think it's just hard for me to imagine entangling my life with a partners' partner to that degree. How does it not lead to both arms of the V resenting each other for the endless compromises and sacrifices? To be brutally honest, sometimes I find the compromises of life with my husband to be pretty damn frustrating - but I love him, and I love our partnership, so it's worth it. But doing that for someone who is, at best, a close friend? I don't think I could, at least not without getting resentful and bitter.

You and Real and Lady must be amazing people :)
 
Haha hardly amazing. And as I said it's a mutual long term goal. Not a forgone conclusion. I think I'm just as hesitant about some stuff as you are just from the opposite side.
Lady is much more of a communal living sort than me. She often has various family/friends who are experiencing life transitions move in with them for a while, her best friend lived there for 2 years after her divorce. She's really good at finding space and creating shared space with people and finds joy in it.

Everyone is different and has their unique needs. Don't beat yourself up for doing poly your way. It works for you.
 
Depression is a dick. And it completely screws with one's perception. When I've been in a depressive episode, it's very easy to see simple, minor things as personal attacks. Something like Country being mouthy, which is typical for her and which I sometimes have to force myself not to laugh at when I'm in a decent head space, through the haze of depression can become "She hates me, and she doesn't even want to be here just lives here so she can go to the school she wants, and she loves her father but treats me like shit" and on and on.

I've been dealing with it so long--and have been in therapy--that I am usually able to recognize when depression is screwing with me. That does not help me change my thinking to the reality of the situation. Knowing my thoughts are incorrect doesn't enable me to correct them on my own while the depression is still in effect. But recognizing it enables me to step away from the situation instead of losing my temper or having a meltdown in front of someone else, and when I'm able to at least speak calmly I'll go to Hubby, or lately call Woody, and say "I'm having a depressive episode, here's what's going on in my brain, please give me a reality check." Trying to correct my thoughts on my own doesn't work because I'm fighting wiht my own brain; having one of the men I love say, "Nope, what you're thinking isn't real, the reality is this" gets through.

About the hierarchical poly thing... I don't think it's necessarily become "evil." *Some* people see it that way. Some people also see chocolate as evil. But there are others who see it as a completely logical and reasonable way to do things, and I've seen a few people on FetLife, and I think one or two here, saying that they prefer a hierarchical model in which they are the secondary, because it gives them a relationship but also freedom. The people who don't like hierarchy tend to be more vocal than those who are okay with it, I think.
 
KC43 said:
I've been dealing with it so long--and have been in therapy--that I am usually able to recognize when depression is screwing with me. That does not help me change my thinking to the reality of the situation.
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This is true for Andy, too. He has a degree in psychology and in the logical part of his brain, he knows his chemistry gets all screwy when it's dark so much of the time. But he still FEELS miserable.

He's been in therapy off and on for years, with varying degrees of success. His last therapist was wonderful. So wonderful that he recommended her to Stephanie. And then the therapist broke every rule of good therapist-ing and started telling Stephanie stuff Andy said about her in his sessions :eek: Ended up with major drama and Andy and Stephanie barely speaking all summer.

So yeah, we're a little gun shy about counseling right now ;) I sometimes think I should go back, just to improve my own coping-with-a-depressed-partner skills. I've lost so many friends and family members to suicide that depression is REALLY hard for me to be around. I tend to attempt to cheer people up by any means necessary, rather than love them through the sad. Andy refers to my strategy as "beatings will continue until morale improves" :p
 
So fucking tired of cold and flu season :cool: Stephanie has been sick, then Andy came home sick yesterday, and by last night I was coughing and sneezing too.

In a fit of boredom I joined FetLife. Hmmm. Was kind of disappointed, to be honest. I'm sure it's great if you know people there, but just poking around, not knowing where to start, was overwhelming. Some of the poly groups look interesting, at least :)

I'm not sure what I expected... More local stuff, maybe. There are Dallas groups but there's also a lot of stuff that's not location specific at all, hard to weed through. And I definitely expected less genitalia, lol. I'm not a prude about naked bodies ... I don't think ... But it's weird for someone's profile pic to be a disembodied cock or a close up of a spread pussy. Isn't it? :confused: Maybe I am a prude. Just found it odd, reading through discussion forums, and seeing someone's junk every time they made a comment. Gave it kind of a meat market feel, even though the site is not supposed to be all about hook ups.

Maybe I'm just not kinky enough to really fit in on FetLife. I like being bound and gagged as much as the next girl ;) but it really is just a bedroom fun thing for me. I don't want a full time Dom or Master or a power exchange relationship, or anything that bleeds over into non-sexy times.

I miss being tied up, though. Andy will not do anything like that, even hair pulling and hard fucking make him feel "rapey", in his words. Dag likes being rough with me, but he's lost when it comes to bondage. The only times we've done that anything close were when I handcuffed myself to the bed before he got there :rolleyes:. Sometimes I really wish I could find a play partner for things like that. So I could stop fantasizing about my douchebag ex ;)
 
That's not a bad idea. My ex and I used to switch roles sometimes, I'm nowhere near as talented with rope as he was, but I had fun anyway. I have quite the toy collection, I used to love surprising him while he was blindfolded... Hmmm :)

Though, Dag can be weird about kinky stuff. Like, his initial reaction is to laugh and crack jokes and act like he'd ~never ever ~ :cool: One time I bit his nipple a little during sex - I mean, barely a light nibble - and he got all, I'm not into that!!! and started making jokes about nipple clamps. O - kay.

I'm so barely beyond vanilla that calling my interests "kink" is an insult to kink, but I like trying stuff, doing different things, spicing it up. Andy is just NOPE about almost all of it, which is funny considering he has his own stuff*, but whatever. Dag likes some of the same things as me - dress up, role play, exhibitionism, voyeurism - but he has these knee-jerk rejections of other things, and I haven't pushed any of it.

* someday I need to unspool my thoughts about Andy's kinks...but I haven't talked to him about this blog other than to say please don't read it... and I don't want to spill all his stuff on the interwebz without asking
 
FetLife is geared for all types of people. They even list "vanilla" as one of the possible "kinks" people might be into.

It depends on your purpose in joining, though. If you want to join groups on the site and interact there, or post journal writings or stories on your profile, or find out about real-life events in your area, I think it's a useful thing. If you're on there to meet people, you might not have as much success. And if you're on there to learn things... good luck.

If you read my blog post from yesterday, I'll just reinforce the caution I put there: There are trolls on Fet. There are trolls everywhere, but Fet has tens of thousands of members, and you never know who's going to see something and decide to grab a stick and start poking beehives. So if you post things on there, even on the groups, keep in mind that those are visible to every single person who is a member of the site, and some people are assholes.
 
Yeah, I'm thinking I'll stay in lurker mode on fet and just read forums as a distraction when I'm home sick :p

I was mostly just curious, and thinking I might meet some cool friends or potential FWBs there. But it's creeping me out a little. I haven't written anything, just posted a few (non-identifying) pics and followed a few groups... but BAM!!! out of nowhere come the dudes with the "what are you looking for?" "Hey" "I'm from Dallas too" etc. Some wanted to chat and then disappeared when I didn't want to drool over their dick pics :rolleyes: Also seems like the place is crawling with guys who friend every woman on there just to ... Get pics? Look popular? Who knows :confused: I'm not sure what I expected, but I didn't expect it to feel like had accidentally posted an ad for NSA sex on Craigslist.

Soooo yeah not really my scene so far, we'll see.
 
So, I was trying to figure out why the pick up scene on fet was bugging me - after all I survived okcupid...

It's just weird to be trying to make friends and field booty calls at the same time.

The guys who are messaging me seem to just be trying to get laid, either virtually or in real life. The winner today was a tie - "great profile" guy, because I don't have anything written, and "well...", because that was the whole message. Ugh.

On a dating site I'd just ignore that shit. But on fet, these guys are in groups I've joined, mostly the local ones where I had hopes of meeting folks in person. So I feel like I have to be friendly :confused: or at least polite. Otherwise what if I run into them? But if I answer or accept friend requests, then it's chat chat chat about sex sex sex.

Yeah I obviously suck at fet life ;)
 
Nope, you absolutely do NOT have to be friendly or polite. Those are unsolicited, unwanted messages. Ignore them. If the guys hassle you, block them. If they hassle you in a group, report them to the mods; if things get too bad, report them to the Caretakers (the people who moderate the entire site rather than just individual groups).

If someone messaged you on Facebook and you didn't know them and they weren't saying anything of substance, or were hitting on you, would you respond?
 
KC43 said:
If someone messaged you on Facebook and you didn't know them and they weren't saying anything of substance, or were hitting on you, would you respond?
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Good point...

On Facebook I am old and boring enough that I've never gotten a message from someone I didn't know :eek: Of course I also don't use FB to meet new people, I don't play games, join groups, anything like that.

I'm going to go that direction on Fet, if I even keep the profile up. I deleted all my "friends" already, will delete the pics too, leave everything empty.

Disappointed, not so much in the site itself, as in the loss of imagined friendships and connections. Weird huh. But I would have liked to make online acquaintances who were close enough geographically to become real life friends if we hit it off.

Just really don't have the patience to do that while sifting through the messages from friend collectors and pic collectors and trolls :( Plus, to be honest, having been hit on by so many random dudes from the Dallas groups, I'm guessing a lot of the local events might be hook up central anyway.
 
Some of us here are also on Fet. Start by friending us. At least you know we're not gonna hit on you! LOL. (I'm KCWinter on there.)

The best way to make acquaintances on Fet is to search for events in your area. Munches, etc. Go to those, meet people, then friend them on Fet. Or, if someone in one of the groups you've joined posts something that appeals to you or you agree with, check their profile, and if they're in your area, send them a message. You can also search members in your geographic area, but I wouldn't recommend just doing that at random. I've seen a number of people call Fet "the kinky Facebook," and that's really the best way to use it, in my opinion.
 
Lol, nycindie, I may steal that :D

(I feel like the following needs some kind of trigger warning for... I don't know what... Shallowness?)

FetLife definitely made me think about the whole "attractiveness is random and subjective" idea that has come up on this site lately...

I'm definitely more attracted to personality and brains than looks, but I do have a "type", and that type is middle American white collar suburban dad. I've never been attracted to any guy who had tattoos, piercings, long hair, or facial hair. Those aren't deal breakers ... And I have plenty of male and female platonic friends who are inked and pierced and sporting butt length dreads ... They're just turn offs for me, like no matter how objectively attractive and awesome a guy is, if he's pierced and tattooed, I can't feel any sexual attraction. Meanwhile, I get all crazy for the clean cut guys in suits, the ones my friends describe as "looks like he has a stick up his ass, and not in a good way" :p

It's also been ... interesting ... to see soooo many naked female bodies.I'm not used to that. Well, I see my friends naked. And I see porn stars naked. But I was definitely not prepared for seeing a huge and diverse cross section of the world's women naked. I am definitely knee-jerk judgy and bitchy and snarky about women's looks, and I hate that :(

Oddly, despite being borderline obsessed with staying a size four, I'm not particularly judgy about weight. No, what triggers my snark is a lack of effort and presentation and upkeep. Stretch marks, cellulite, dry skin, stubble, razor burn, bad hair dye job, chipped nail polish, acne, I could keep going but you probably get the idea. Is it a patriarchal mindset if I don't necessarily see it as about the "male gaze" but just about the genderless societal gaze :confused: I don't expect every woman to have born with perfectly symmetrical features or a great metabolism, but I do basically expect women to make themselves as "attractive" as possible - in a very narrowly defined way. Ugh. Victim of cultural conditioning much, Claire? But it's really hard to break.

I know not everyone has the money to buy ridiculously expensive organically sourced body scrubs and face serums... Or the time to shave/wax/thread/laser/etc. And I know that not every woman wants to bother with that stuff. I'm honestly not judging everyone in the supermarket. It's just the idea of someone posting a pic online and not trying to "look their best". I'm trying to shake that attitude. The one that says women have to look their best for the world, like we owe it to society to be aesthetically pleasing. But still, what goes through my head is, "you have time to be photographed in an elaborate body harness, you have time to tweeze your eyebrows".
 
You don't sound as judgmental as you think you do, but I wanted to point out something that stood out to me, which I think you've realized anyway given your post.

The thing is... "a woman looking her best" is very subjective.

I don't want to derail your blog and I don't want to come across like I'm lecturing or judging you, because I'm not; I'm just giving another perspective. So I'm gonna continue my thoughts on this in my own blog.
 
KC43 said:
Some of those women might have been told, as I once was, that their bodies are disgusting. They're taking and posting nude pics to empower themselves and get back the confidence that was eroded. Or get the confidence for the first time in their lives, in some cases. They aren't taking or posting the pictures for anyone else's benefit. They're doing it for their own, and so the only thing that matters is how *they* feel about how they look.
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This is really interesting to me because my self-care (ok primping :eek:) is very much a confidence and self esteem thing for me.

I went through a long period right after getting married where I didn't feel like it was ok to be pretty or sexy. Like my time for sexy lingerie and scented lotions was past, and now I had to stop being vain and wear utilitarian white cotton bras from Walmart.

Part of it was feeling like, "married ladies don't do that stuff". Part was because Andy has never really cared if I shaved or wore silky stuff or had a flat tummy. Part was because he was getting more into his own kink at that point, and any attention he paid to my appearance felt very much like a pity fuck.

But God, I missed feeling proud of my appearance. Missed wearing things that showed my body instead of hiding in oversized t shirts. Missed being noticed as a sexual being, both by my husband and by other people. Sex, during that time, was just scratching an itch or maintenance sex. I never felt sexy. I went through the second half of my 20s thinking my sex life was going to be meh forever. Hearing, "I don't care what you look like" somehow felt like, "and since I don't care, YOU shouldn't either".

I think things changed when I started being more supportive of Andy's sexuality, because I sloooowly started to realize that I could also ask him to be supportive of mine. And I like being an object of desire. I like wearing red lacy lingerie. I like spending 45 minutes perfecting my eyeliner. That stuff makes me feel sexy. Probably because of the patriarchal society we live in ;) but that doesn't change how I feel.

One of the things I love about being with Dag is that he notices that stuff. Always. He has favorites of my lingerie, he comments when I wear a new dress, he always smells me and tries to guess what lotion I'm wearing. Andy's loving me no matter what is wonderful and I wouldn't trade that for anything. But being able to make Dag's head spin when he sees me - that's the ultimate turn on.

So, for me, the "looking my best" is very much a self love thing. Letting myself feel sexy and desirable. Reminding myself that it's *ok* to want to be sexy and desirable. But I do need to remember that's me, and other women experience things differently. I have a tendency to project my experiences on others - to assume that if I dislike having sex with stubble on my legs, other women do too.

Some people not only don't have an issue with seeing razor burn, or cellulite, or lack of makeup, or whatever--they *prefer* it. They like to see what a woman looks like when she *isn't* spending hours on her appearance, when she's just presenting herself to the world as is.
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Both Andy and my friend K prefer their porn "real". It makes it much sexier to them to see flaws and different kinds of bodies and actual bedrooms. I think I just prefer to live in a very airbrushed world... Because in addition to "color your roots!", I'm usually also thinking, "dust your nightstand and straighten that poster on the wall!" :rolleyes:
 
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