Is he feeling ok? I'm not a last minute person, but I usually get into "I don't know" mood if I am slightly depressed or just plain exhausted. It's nothing serious, but I can't tell if meeting anyone will do me any good or just exhaust me further, I can't tell if I'll feel better in an hour, and playing games might be the only thing I can manage that day. Maybe he doesn't want to meet you if he's too exhausted to really give you attention...
It's a Texlahoma Story
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GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Well, no Dag, but the cookout was great 
BuzzBallz are my new favorite thing. Cocktail in a little round can. Very very strong cocktail
If you mean asking him what he can't make plans like everyone else... I ask. All the time. He says he hates the idea of saying yes and then flaking, and I say I'd prefer that to being in limbo all the time, and I think we've sorted it out... And then the next week, it's the same "I'll let you know," bullshit.
Maybe. What you say makes sense, and I know he was feeling run down with "con crud" after last weekend. I just wish he'd SAY THAT instead of leaving things hanging until the last possible second.
The hard part about communicating/problem solving/whatever with Dag is that no matter what I say, he's always like "oh yes absolutely I agree lets do that"... And then nothing changes. I say I need a few days notice for dates, he agrees, then he continues to hem and haw until a few hours before. I say I want a weekly lunch date, he says he'd love that, then I nag and nag and he can't even get free for lunch one week a month.
I could (maybe? probably?) be ok with what he can give, if I just KNEW what that was. But all this "let's get an apartment together!" when he can't even find the time to meet for coffee regularly is... Frustrating.
BuzzBallz are my new favorite thing. Cocktail in a little round can. Very very strong cocktail If you mean asking him what he can't make plans like everyone else... I ask. All the time. He says he hates the idea of saying yes and then flaking, and I say I'd prefer that to being in limbo all the time, and I think we've sorted it out... And then the next week, it's the same "I'll let you know," bullshit.
Maybe.
What you say makes sense, and I know he was feeling run down with "con crud" after last weekend. I just wish he'd SAY THAT instead of leaving things hanging until the last possible second. The hard part about communicating/problem solving/whatever with Dag is that no matter what I say, he's always like "oh yes absolutely I agree lets do that"... And then nothing changes. I say I need a few days notice for dates, he agrees, then he continues to hem and haw until a few hours before. I say I want a weekly lunch date, he says he'd love that, then I nag and nag and he can't even get free for lunch one week a month.
I could (maybe? probably?) be ok with what he can give, if I just KNEW what that was. But all this "let's get an apartment together!" when he can't even find the time to meet for coffee regularly is... Frustrating.
IndieSolo
Active member
No, that wasn't what I meant at all. Sorry I wasn't clear.
You wrote:
So, I am asking what prevents you from saying this to him:
"I don't understand your indecision. To me it reads like you don't want to come, but are afraid to say so. Or that you're waiting to see if anything better comes along. Both of which make me feel like shit. So, which is it?"
Now, saying that to him could be a risk -- you might not come across as the picture-perfect, amiable, wonderfully accommodating, and totally accepting girlfriend -- but so what? You know, it's okay to express your irritation or displeasure with someone, and to shake things up by asking difficult questions. At least you'll have more of a chance to get a real answer instead of some response designed to placate you.
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I agree with that one. Actually, asking along the lines of "why can't you make plans like everyone else" reads kind of judgemental - there it the "be like everyone else" (because it suits me) imperative. Asking with a genuin wish to understand, without the need to figure out a solution right away, may be way better.
Btw when I started dating Idealist, he made plans way less ahead of me. He rarely agreed to a specific time to meet ahead of time - it was always like "Tuesday evening, but lets confirm later". I did not understand - in my world it was far easier to say "ok, 19:00" and not speak about it any more. I freaked out, because usualy I was unsure when we would meet again. Also, especially when we were driving somewhere with Meta too, they tended to be late, like hours late. I was furious then.
We've done quite a bit of mutual accomodating and it works +- fine now. The issue was helped considerably by several things:
- He really tries and got way better holding his promises. Usually we are able to plan the week in the beginning of the week.
- We distinguish properly if something is a promisse or not.
- We got an unlimited phone tarif and we call instead of sms.
- I understand that most of the uncertainty is due to a very full life. I've learned some of the flexibility.
- I don't freak out any longer if he's late. I know he's most probably 10 minutes late. Sometimes it's half an hour or more, and I do state my discontent then, but don't judge.
- I allowed myself the freedom to be late too, and even occasionally change plans. In fact, it took kind of a burden off my shoulders, which I felt because of being judged if I don't hold to plans (by myself, my ex, my parents...).
- I understand, that he sometimes *does* wait if something comes up, or at least juggles multiple eventualities. I understand it's in line with his value of personal freedom.
- I choose not to drive anywhere with him and Meta, and if I (rarely) do, I am aware that getting ready always takes up more time then planned.
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GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Oh God no, I would never actually say it the way I wrote it!!! That was just me being pissy and snarky here in the pseudo-privacy of my blog
What I've said to Dag is that it's stressful for me not to have some kind of schedule, and that I'm rarely up for doing anything at the last minute, so scheduling dates a day or two in advance makes it a lot more likely we will see each other. Your list did help
In general I'm fine with lateness, cancelations, etc. I just get tired of every week going through the dance of me asking him when he's free, and him saying he'll let me know, and then nothing until I ask again. What ends up happening is that I just don't make any other plans, ever, I sit around and wait and see if Dag will end up wanting to hang out. And that sucks. I get bored and lonely, because I don't see my friends during the week. I don't engage in any interests that require large chunks of time or advance planning. I don't keep up with day to day shit like mowing the lawn, because omg what if he calls but I'm too sweaty to run out and meet him in an hour???
The brief period of trying to stick with a plan of "I'll schedule my life however I please, and if he wants to see me he'll have to ask ahead of time!" was a mixed bag. The rest of my life went from crappy to amazing. But I didn't see Dag at all. It kind of just confirmed for me that 1) not having a schedule was seriously fucking up my life, and 2) if I want to see Dag, I really do have to sit around and be "on call" 24-7 for last minute time with him
Honest answer? I don't ask that because my self esteem is so tanked that I no longer feel like I deserve a boyfriend who cares how his behavior affects me.
Sad, huh? But true. I used to think I was pretty awesome. Not perfect, who is? But smart, funny, pretty, in shape, with interesting hobbies and work and opinions. Someone worth having as a friend or a girlfriend. These days... I just sit around and wonder if Dag is tired of me because I'm fat or because I'm boring. I'm just really down on myself these days. It's not just "Dag doesn't think I'm important" or "Dag doesn't think I'm skinny or pretty enough". I've generalized it, so now I feel like *no one* will think I'm pretty or worth dating. So I kind of just settle for whatever Dag will give, because I imagine no one else would even offer me that much.
[rant]
The other day I showed Dag the floor plans that I designed for our lake house... All he did was read the room names aloud - "Kitchen, dining, bedroom, bath" and hand them back to me. I tried to show him where the house will sit, the views the windows will have, different flooring ideas... And he just nodded and looked back at his phone. No interest. Which is ok, home design isn't everyone's thing, but I was hoping for some reaction to how hard I'd worked. Maybe some questions or something. I did CAD elevations and plumbing plans and electrical plans - ALL BY MYSELF. Hello I got mother fucking BUILDING PERMITS with those! Just me and my Chief Architect software! Look away from your phone for five minutes, please.
In contrast to that, Dag is into Marvel comics, characters I knew nothing about. So I read all the old comics and all the internet commentary and watched many PAINFULLY AWFUL movies. Superhero stories aren't my thing, but he really loves them, and can dissect them for hours... and I wanted to support that. Be part of it.
[/rant]
I know I'm in a shitty emotional place right now. I genuinely don't understand how I got here, to being this girl begging for scraps of attention. And more, to feeling like I don't deserve more than scraps, and should be grateful for them.
IndieSolo
Active member
I don't understand why not - they are legitimate questions and concerns and not snarky at all, if asked and stated in a non-hysterical tone of voice. What is wrong with being direct? And being upset? Why can't you show Dag that side of you?
Well, I think you either need to speak your truth to him or end it because you're just torturing yourself the way you're going.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
I've been thinking that tonight, too
I just feel like the stuff I want is unreasonable, and controlling, and demanding... And that nobody would be ok with my expectations. If I end things with Dag, I'll just repeat this pattern with the next guy. So if I want a boyfriend/fwb/whatever-you-call-it, I'd better adjust.
I thought I made a list in an old post of my needs/wants in a relationship, but I can't find it
But off the top of my head... Here are the ones I'm not getting right now. 1. Regular weekly "date" for something besides sex
2. Open to hanging out with my friends
3. Plan non-regular dates a few days in advance
I think maybe this is too much to ask, on top of the needs/wants that ARE getting met...
4. Open to hanging out with Andy
5. Daily texting
6. Occasional travel together
I look at that list - which is by no means exhaustive, lol - and think, Claire, you're dreaming. No guy is going to put in that much time and effort for a "side piece".
Which just leaves me wondering if I should say fuck it and not bother dating. I have Andy. I have 2 close friends who DO hit every point on the lists, and several others who hit most of them.
I have a life I love and plenty of ways to fill my time.
I would miss having tons of hot sex, though
breathemusic
Active member
Personally, I don't think what you're asking for sounds unreasonable at all. But either way, you're not getting it from Dag, and you've already told him in the past that these are things you want, but like you said... He agrees but nothing changes. I hate to agree, but it might be time to end it. Especially if he's making you feel this poorly about yourself!
Reverie
Active member
I've been thinking that tonight, too
I just feel like the stuff I want is unreasonable, and controlling, and demanding... And that nobody would be ok with my expectations. If I end things with Dag, I'll just repeat this pattern with the next guy. So if I want a boyfriend/fwb/whatever-you-call-it, I'd better adjust.
I thought I made a list in an old post of my needs/wants in a relationship, but I can't find it
1. Regular weekly "date" for something besides sex
2. Open to hanging out with my friends
3. Plan non-regular dates a few days in advance
I think maybe this is too much to ask, on top of the needs/wants that ARE getting met...
4. Open to hanging out with Andy
5. Daily texting
6. Occasional travel together
I look at that list - which is by no means exhaustive, lol - and think, Claire, you're dreaming. No guy is going to put in that much time and effort for a "side piece".
Which just leaves me wondering if I should say fuck it and not bother dating. I have Andy. I have 2 close friends who DO hit every point on the lists, and several others who hit most of them.
I have a life I love and plenty of ways to fill my time.
I would miss having tons of hot sex, though
FWIW, I don't think that's unreasonable stuff at all. But I do think you're not going to find it if you're putting the rest of your life on hold for the person who provides 50% of it. I'm not saying I have the answer to where you might find 6/6; I've stumbled into a far more "it happens if/when it happens" model of meeting people than anything like a methodical strategy for finding my ideal other person either. But a lot of times I think that refraining from ANYTHING is better than the weird half-frenzied imbalance feeling that comes from having SOMETHING that isn't quite right.
IndieSolo
Active member
Do you really think Dag considers you just a side piece?
So you dropped the intention of making plans for yourself never mind Dag? That sucks. And it sucks extremely that you are feeling bad about yourself now. If dating Dag made you feel so awful, and nothing changes, I too think you should break up.
Is there another approach you could take? I don't know.
He has DADT, so you can't even come over to be part of his life, if he won't come over to yours. That sucks too.
You could try something like "ok, I hold Thursday open for Dag, but else I plan my life however", but it's unlikely that this will be any better.
You could give yourself one more attempt to really understand why he isn't able to plan ahead, and if that gives you another option. Possibly
But really, I had a dear friend who if perhaps kind of like Dag (I wrote it somewhere already). I haven't seen her in three months. I am really mad at her and I think it might be time to forget.
Is there another approach you could take? I don't know.
He has DADT, so you can't even come over to be part of his life, if he won't come over to yours. That sucks too.
You could try something like "ok, I hold Thursday open for Dag, but else I plan my life however", but it's unlikely that this will be any better.
You could give yourself one more attempt to really understand why he isn't able to plan ahead, and if that gives you another option. Possibly
But really, I had a dear friend who if perhaps kind of like Dag (I wrote it somewhere already). I haven't seen her in three months. I am really mad at her and I think it might be time to forget.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Everything emanates out from how we see ourselves, so no amount of negotiating with Dag will fix this. No amount of improved behavior or date setting from Dag will fix this. Look deeper into this plummet in your self image. What is going on, Claire? This is not about Dag at all, although you are seeing a reflection of your sucky self-image in his behavior (or rather, in the way that you feel about his behavior.) Trying to get him to change his behavior so that you feel better is a disempowering and temporary patch up. We all do this, try to get our loved ones to behave better so that we can have a positive feeling response, but for all of us - putting the emphasis on how others' shortcomings make us feel only leads to more of the same and leaves us feeling beholden to whatever that person serves up that day. I promise you, when you put the focus on turning inward and elevating your self-image, regardless of however he is behaving, your experience of Dag will improve as well. It's not about what he is or isn't doing. It's about how you feel about yourself. The good news here is that you have complete control over how you feel and you have every ability to change this for the better.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
I will be honest and admit I don't quite get what you mean here... Are you saying others' actions don't affect us?
I mean, I get that Dag isn't a sorcerer using mind control to "make" me unhappy. And I don't think he's some sociopath manipulating me. But I also don't think I'm secretly frustrated at work/ angry at Andy/ having a spiritual crisis, and just randomly blaming Dag for my shitty feelings. I think it genuinely sucks to have a boyfriend who doesn't make spending time with me a priority, and no amount of thinking about other stuff is going to change that.
Sorry to sound defensive ... It's just that "when you put the focus on turning inward and elevating your self-image, regardless of however he is behaving, your experience of Dag will improve as well" sounds kind of like, "just put up with it".
I know I need to work on self esteem as it relates to dating ... Simply because I've always LOVED dating/meeting new people in the past, and right now I'm terrified no one will want me ever again. But I think I should work on that for *me*, not because it will make me somehow happier with Dag.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Hmmmm ...
I know he'd say we're best friends. But he doesn't "friend" the way I do. His friends are all online mostly, if he sees them in person it's because they happen to be geeking out at the same event. Even when they know ahead of time they're going to be in the same place, they don't make real plans to meet up.
For me... You put in the effort with friends. Andy and I invited K and R up to the lake next weekend, and they thought they'd be too busy, because Older Kid has a big activity Saturday afternoon and evening. But it turns out it's not super far from the lake! So Andy and I will go the kid thing Saturday, then K, R, and kiddos will stay at a hotel, and we'll all go boating and hiking Sunday
It took some work to figure out a plan, but that's how you get time together when everyone is crazy busy. With Dag, I don't feel that joint effort to get time together. It's more like, if it happens it happens; if not, who cares. That's not friendship to me. That's ... I dunno, a booty call? There's nothing inherently wrong with that set up, but I don't want to be all emotionally invested in some "relationship" that exists only in my head.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Oh - I put up some pics from the con!!! I think I managed to add everyone who regularly comments here to my contacts so you all can see them. (The album is set to private to respect Dag's DADT stuff about not posting photos.)
I'm frustrated and I'm sad, but that doesn't change the fact that I looked AWESOME in my costume that weekend
I'm frustrated and I'm sad, but that doesn't change the fact that I looked AWESOME in my costume that weekend
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Exactly. Work on that for you and then the pressure comes off all around. Things improve tremendously when you feel good about yourself and don't so much need people to be this way or that way and when you have more breathing room to simply appreciate. It's not putting up with anything, it's putting the focus of your life on what you want to experience more of, which is feeling good about yourself. If you feel that Dag isn't making you a priority, then you'll feel better making a decision about him when you come from a place of clarity and positive self image rather than reacting to how badly this makes you feel. What you focus upon is what grows and everything falls into place around that.
Hopefully this is helpful for you, Claire, but if it's not, I won't say any more. I didn't intend for what I said to feel like something that would put you in a defensive position, so if this isn't helping, just chalk it up to random internet advice that gets the heave ho.
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GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Aw thanks guys!
Both Andy and Dag are sick tonight After almost 20 years of working with small children, I'm immune to everything I guess I offered to bring Dag food and stuff, since his family is still on vacation, but he says he's fine...
I wish I could be the girlfriend/friend who actually gets to help with stuff like that, not just the "meet up for dates" girl. But, I do get being so sick you just want to be left the hell alone. So I'm resisting the urge to show up with chicken soup.
Both Andy and Dag are sick tonight
After almost 20 years of working with small children, I'm immune to everything I guess I offered to bring Dag food and stuff, since his family is still on vacation, but he says he's fine...I wish I could be the girlfriend/friend who actually gets to help with stuff like that, not just the "meet up for dates" girl. But, I do get being so sick you just want to be left the hell alone. So I'm resisting the urge to show up with chicken soup.