Need advice - husband wants poly and I don't

[Becca]

I'm usually just a lurker here, but I wanted to come out of lurking to respond to this.

First, I'm so sorry that you're in this situation. I'm the kind of person who has had several major shifts in my libido in my adult life. When libido is low, it is incredibly hard on relationships, because I really *can't* be sexual if I'm not into it. I can say that for me, it's something that has swung low, and eventually swung high again, so if you're hoping to get it back, have faith.

So I feel like your position is totally valid. If you don't want to try kinky things, then the WORST thing you can do is to push yourself. And even more importantly, if you don't want a poly relationship, then don't push it. It's too hard. It's hard enough if you really want to make poly work. If you don't, then it's too much to expect from yourself.

But I also feel that his position is valid. He's a sexual creature with needs, and they aren't being met. He doesn't want to cheat. He doesn't want to divorce. He's trying to make it work. But his needs are valid.

The option that seems like it would be the least painful for both of you might be separation. Yeah, ouch. But that will rip a smaller hole in your soul than forcing a poly relationship, or forcing him to give up something crucial for him.

That said, I'll add what insight I can about kink. I've been in the leather community for a long time, all my adult life. I have experience here. And here is a true fact-- when someone is just finally letting themselves identify as kinky after trying to repress it, they go nuts. It becomes HUGE in their life. They start to feel like it's critical to their identity, that maybe they are destined for a 24/7 power exchange relationship where they wear a collar or wield a whip every second of the day, because that's the only way they'll feel fulfilled.

Once they have a few years of experience under their belt, they settle down.

I say this to suggest that the more you ask him to repress it, the more important it's going to feel for him. He's going to seek out kinky stuff online, which is honestly not very realistic, and he'll build up a fantasy about how amazing it is.

But if he had free rein to connect with the kink community in real life-- attend conferences, classes, play parties, etc.-- he will eventually settle down. It may remain important to him, but he won't be so frenzied about it.

I say this as someone who's firmly in the seen it, been there, jaded-and-cranky kink camp.

I don't know if you really could get to a place where you're okay with him exploring this stuff while remaining in a relationship with you, but it's something to keep in mind.

Please remember-- you really don't get to decide whether he's "allowed" to explore this. You only get to decide whether he's permitted to remain in a relationship with you, if he chooses to explore this (and it sounds like that's the choice he's going to make).

If you don't have it in you, that's okay, you're not a bad person. And I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

[IndieSolo]

. . . I've been very open to exploring some of what he wants. It simply doesn't excite me and sometimes makes me feel lousy. I'm having a harder time wrapping my head around his need to dominate a woman because of my past trauma.

Hi there. I am not into BDSM, but became interested in learning about it, so I read the very long thread we have here on it and posted questions there (find it here: BDsm), and read some e-books and websites I found here and there, and have talked to friends about it. I learned a lot!

I just wanted to address the passage of yours I quoted above. If your past trauma involved having been dominated in some way against your will, then I could understand why his need to dominate a woman is puzzling and distasteful to you. But I've learned that domming isn't just about throwing one's authority around, being forceful and bossy, and just having one's way with someone. A good Dom/Domme does everything in his/her power to honor the Submissive's needs and give them what they want. Others who are more well-versed in D/s will correct me if I'm off base...

There are people who truly need to be dominated in some way or another, and are only satisfied when a Dom takes charge. They want it and some have very specific goals in mind, and reasons for it, and Doms negotiate with them to make sure they can give the Sub what they want in the power exchange. A Sub does not (at least, they should not!) enter lightly into such an arrangement, and they do still have the power to dissolve the partnership if it is not satisfactory - so they aren't completely powerless. Being Dommed fulfills the person who is a Sub, and dominating a truly subby Sub fulfills the Dom. Perhaps it gives them a sense of purpose in that arena, I don't know. However, there are some people who take the Sub's role but are not truly willing to submit themselves, nor really participate in an exchange of power, and they make things difficult for the Dom by not relinquishing control (I think they call it "topping from the bottom"). It is a complete turn-off to a Dom when a Sub really isn't submissive and actually manipulates things to go their way so that they are actually steering everything.

This is probably one reason why your husband wouldn't be happy dominating a less than enthusiastic partner, or someone who is just going through the motions without really wanting it. So, even if you were able to get past the effects of your personal traumatic experiences and submit to him just to placate him, it would not cut it for him. You're not a Sub, and cannot fulfill that need in him. But I just want you to remember, if his need to dominate triggers your past trauma, that in a BDSM arrangement, the Submissive gives consent to be dominated. It isn't the same as being dominated by force. Very, very different.

 

[Becca]

I can add a few notes to what Nycindie said.

Different people eroticize power exchange for a lot of different reasons, so it's difficult to say that this is *why* they do it, or *how* they do it. Some people are strictly in it for the physical sensation-- the adrenaline surge that a masochist feels after a beating isn't that much different from the runner's high that a marathon runner experiences. Some people want a little drama with their sex, a little "cops and robbers for grown-ups." Some people are indulging in their intricate deeply-seated fetishes, enjoying the fact that a certain texture (rubber) or smell (leather) stimulates them erotically. Some people find a deep level of satisfaction from providing service (I once painted someone's house, for pleasure) or receiving service.

Yes, you could say that the sub/bottom/slave has the ultimate power, because they could walk away. That's where consent is critical for all ethical kinksters. But both parties have that power, both parties can walk away. The point is, all of this revolves around consent, because without consent, it's not erotic power exchange, it's just abuse.

In my mind, in order to have consent, it has to be positive, enthusiastic consent. If someone really doesn't want to do something but begrudgingly agrees, that's not consent. It's not okay. It's gross.

So I'll come back around and say to the OP-- if you don't feel enthusiastic about doing something kinky, don't do it. Just don't.

 

[KC43]

Speaking from the perspective of a submissive who is also a trauma survivor:

For me, submitting is nowhere near the same as what was done to me. Those last few words are the key: done TO me. Not my choice. Not something I wanted. Not something I was even slightly okay with. Done TO me.

Submission, on the other hand, IS my choice. In my experience, at least, a Dom doesn't *take* control from the sub. The sub *gives* the Dom their trust and control. When I submit, I'm not just there letting my Dom do whatever he wants. We have previously negotiated boundaries and limits. There are things I flat out will not tolerate from him, and he knows that. During those times, I have a safe word that will instantly stop him the moment I speak it. And he isn't saying "I'm in control of you right now." *I* am saying "Here's my control. Please take it, be careful with it, and return it to me when we're finished."

For me, because of my history, there are some sexual acts that even if I want to do them, I can't. At least not of my own volition. But when I hand over control to my Dom and *he* says, "I want you to do this," I am able to, and can enjoy it and feel good about it, because I want to make him happy and because my "Oh, no, I can't do that" voice doesn't get in the way. Again, these are acts we've previously discussed; he knows what he can and can't ask me to do.

I'm not saying this to sing the praises of dominance or submission, only to explain submission from my perspective as someone who has, from the sounds, a slightly similar past to yours. I've spoken with other submissives who see it the same way. Essentially, as one of them put it, by surrendering our control voluntarily, we're taking back the control that was stolen when we were traumatized. That might not make a whole lot of sense, but it's an accurate way to describe it for some.

As for whether your husband's desire to submit makes him "pathetic"... I think in our society, we're taught men are supposed to be strong and in charge. A man who expresses a desire *not* to be that is often looked at unfavorably. Witness the backlash a lot of stay-at-home dads experience because they're the ones caring for their children while their wives or husbands earn the living.

But wanting to submit doesn't make your husband weak or pathetic. It makes him someone who wants to explore what it's like to NOT be strong and in charge, in a safe context with someone he trusts. Based on what you've said about your family structure, it sounds like your husband has a lot of responsibilities. He's a husband and father, trying to do the best for his family and take care of all of you. I would tend to guess that he feels a lot of stress and pressure, because men are often taught that taking care of their wife and children is their primary, if not only, purpose in existence.

Submitting would allow your husband a respite from that; he could say "Here, be in charge of me for a while so I don't have to think or act". It can be very restful to let go of control and responsibilities for a while and let someone else take over. And it takes a strong person to be able to trust someone else enough to even admit needing that, let alone allowing the other person to *do* it.

 

[LizziE]

I definitely agree with the above three posts, and much of Kevin's post. There's a world of difference between the things that were done to me, and the things that I consent to as an adult.

From a Domme point of view, when I'm being a Domme, what I'm thinking about is giving my partner what s/he wants and crafting a great experience that we'll both enjoy. I don't know if it helps to know, but for me at least, it's less about hurting someone (assuming that is what they're into) and more about finding that sweet spot that gives them exactly the right amount of sensation that they want combined with the desire of being in charge of them and creating something memorable.

It may sound silly, but some of what I get out of being a Domme is exactly the same feelings of accomplishment and pride that I'd get out of planning a really amazing surprise party for someone. Or a dinner where I went all-out to make it a beautiful symphony of flavors and textures.

I know that for my partner Jon, he is genuinely sadistic, so he does enjoy hurting people, but again, it's important to him to do it in the right way, the way that the submissive person desires. He likes to push boundaries, but only with people who like having their boundaries pushed.

For both of us, coming at being dominant from very different places, it's absolutely key that the person we're with is enjoying it and getting something out of it too. If they weren't, we wouldn't want to do it with them. So if you're not interested (which is, of course, totally fine), don't try it. But I hope you can understand that there can be a lot going on in the minds of BDSMers beyond hurting someone and that it is definitely a necessary part of a happy life for some people.

 

[opalescent]

dos,

This is going to be a bit of cold comfort right now but I really wanted to applaud you and your husband on how both of you are handling this difficult situation. We see folks on this forum who post about the after-cheating or other emotional hell that has occurred because, in part, one or both of the couple didn't want to have a really difficult conversation about wants, needs and desires. Those posts are heartbreaking. Neither of you took this route and while it may not seem like it now, this will help immensely down the road, even if you two end up deciding you are not long term compatible. It will make it so much easier to be co-parents and friends if that is the outcome. Of course, that does not mean it is easy at all right now. But from the outside, and from a longer perspective, you two are going through some tough times but, wow, it could be so much worse.

Also, I have a book suggestion for you, 'Come as You Are' by Emily Nagoski, PhD.d. Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Come-You-Are-Surprising-Transform/dp/1476762090

This is the best book I have ever read about how women's desires actually work. (I'm a geek and a historian of sexuality so that's a lot of books!) I beg you to read it - I bet it will explain so much about your current lack of desire. My local library had it, yours might too.