New need help, very confused

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Dragonlady

New member
Hey there, new here (logical) wanted to post something in the introduction tread but didnt know what to say, will try it later :)

i got for my feeling a big dilema, hope this story isnt going to be to long, please dont judge to much. i need advice on how to procede on some stuff.
long story ...

I dont live in canada yet, i am from the netherlands and am moving there start of april to be married with my partner end of july. we have been in a long distance relation for about 2,5 years now and seen each other twice (he 2 weeks here i 2 weeks there) we are both open to poly (although i have to admit i had a little other ideas about it then he does)

last october he had a friend over (girl 19 years old (me 36 he 35) and last weekend i was talking to her and found out he cheated on me with her despite my wishes, she thought i agreeded to it wich i did not.
Anyway we confronted him about it and offcourse admitted guilt and he also told me he loves her, while at first he told he liked her.
(he had told me upfront he would like to be romantical with her wich i thought woudnt be smart so said no to it)

He knows he was VERY wrong but i love him (and so does she) i have to admit if it wasnt for the long distance and we where already close i would probably broke off everything. who knows we do what we do right?

I still want to go further with him despite his lies (yeah you probaly think i am a idiot, and yeah they all promise to not do it again, but i think everybody deserve a second chance)

But here it comes... she might be coming to live with us, she lives in the US and want to go to college in our town, and we gave her a place to stay. but seeing they are both in love too (depending on her if she wants to give it a chance or just be a roommate is still to be determent)

How do you deal with that? i dont hate her or anything but if they do have a relation what agreements do you make? like i said i have no problem with poly but seeing me and my partner havent had time to a proper relation yet how do you deal with a dubbel right away?? and then she might come and live with us just around the time of the wedding....
How do other married people deal with poly i would like to know.

Seeing we didnt had a lot of time together yet i would like to have that first for myself, but seeing they love each other standing between doesnt tend to help...

He is quite sensitive (i got a way thicker skin) so he didnt dare to come here in fear to be judged to hard (he has depresion tendicy's) so i would like to ask on his behave : how do you move forward and past the guilt?

Hope you people can make sense out of my rambling, and sorry for any typo's not my native langauge..
Dont hesitate to ask if you need more info, i am not ashamed to answer ;)

And yes i have a way to go before i can fully trust him again, but its a good man, he just lost his way..
 
I'm curious how he cheated on you when you said you were poly? Of course it's possible, but you haven't made it clear exactly how he screwed up. Especially since your issue appears to be that he loves her, and, well, isn't that encouraged in poly? I'm not surprised in a long distance relationship where he only saw you maybe once a year? that he found a second partner.

I mean, yeah, she's rather young, but that's not my business to judge.

If you expected the right to know and approve of each relationship? That's usually a bad rule, and often violated.

As you said, you don't wish judgment, and I am not judging you. But I'm not sure you had a very good poly setup and would like more information to help you out further. Thanks!
 
Well we had talked about it and seeing her past experiences i told him he shoudnt get sexually involved with her. (also i find her too young)
So i was against sex, but had no problems with cuddles
Isnt it so that in poly the partner has to agree on the new partner?
Or is it that in a poly relation you dont need to ask premission to sleep with other partners first?

My biggest problem is that he lied told me he didnt sleep with her ect and turns out he did

i dont think your judging, and yes poly rules need to be set up, but i though i was clear on the "rules" no sex, cuddles oke, everybody sleeping in there own bed. and he didnt abide? the rules.

here to learn, thanks for your input!
Please ask again if i am not clear i have a hard time forming the right words
 
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Dragonlady said:
Well we had talked about it and seeing her past experiences i told him he shoudnt get sexually involved with her.
So i was against sex, but had no problems with cuddles
Isnt it so that in poly the partner has to agree on the new partner?
Or is it that in a poly relation you dont need to ask premission to sleep with other partners first?

My biggest problem is that he lied told me he didnt sleep with her ect and turns out he did

i dont think your judging, and yes poly rules need to be set up, but i though i was clear on the "rules" no sex, cuddles oke, everybody sleeping in there own bed. and he didnt abide? the rules
here to learn, thanks for your input!
Please ask again if i am not clear i have a hard time forming the right words
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Given the rules, I'm not shocked that he lied. Not great, but the person feeling confined often pushes boundaries. When you first got together, was it clear that he was poly? If so, the setup you offer is pretty pathetic, no offense, but it's like being told, "Hey, of course you can have sweets," and then being offered a Twix bar instead of a homemade apple pie. What you describe sounds more like a friendship, to me, I would never even THINK to ask permission for cuddles with a good friend of mine. What else are you actually okay with besides him cuddling with her?

Nonetheless, he agreed to the rules and therefore has responsibility in following them. So, yes, he should apologize and admit his wrongdoing.

Seeing, however, as he clearly has issues with this, is it possible to renegotiate and discuss what you and he...and now her...all expect and desire? Because what you have isn't working for all parties.
 
There are no hard and fast "rules" in poly, so each person gets to determine what works for them. That said, what you are describing is referred to as "veto" power, and is generally thought to be a bad idea for many reasons. Generally, it's better to determine what your boundaries are, rather than to try to set rules for someone else.

When in poly relationships, I don't, for example, determine who my partners can date, because those are their relationships, not mine. If their relationships spill over in an negative way into my relationship with my partner, I can set my boundaries (i.e., I cannot be in a relationship where a metamour's drama keeps dates from happening, or interferes with our set plans, therefore, if my partner cannot keep this contained, I release myself from the relationship).

It definitely sounds like you and your partner need to sit down and talk about your needs, desires, and boundaries. He did lie to you, which is definitely not okay, and he needs to own that. He should have handled it differently, and hopefully he can articulate why he didn't, and you two can together find a way to handle situations in the future.
 
I knew upfront he is poly, we just hadnt made any rules yet. we figured we think about it when somebody comes along (seeing we do not yet live together)
and take it from there.

I was under the asumption that they where friends and that she would like to have sex with him, that was what i was told.
And to that i told him i do not agree with that, because she was in a abusive relation before, and i told him i thought she was to young for a poly like this.
So to let her come over and get some peace and to show her not all humans are abusive and to build her trust again.

I would have not had a problem with a woman more close to our age, instead of somebody who is still discovering herself and not stable..

offcourse he doesnt need premission to cuddle with other peope, i even dont have problems with him kissing other people, but if it goes further yes i would like to know about it.

And i still thinks she is not stable enough for a poly relation, but i feel like i have no saying in it anymore.

Does this make more sense? think i got it under words now...
 
GreenAcres said:
There are no hard and fast "rules" in poly, so each person gets to determine what works for them. That said, what you are describing is referred to as "veto" power, and is generally thought to be a bad idea for many reasons. Generally, it's better to determine what your boundaries are, rather than to try to set rules for someone else.

When in poly relationships, I don't, for example, determine who my partners can date, because those are their relationships, not mine. If their relationships spill over in an negative way into my relationship with my partner, I can set my boundaries (i.e., I cannot be in a relationship where a metamour's drama keeps dates from happening, or interferes with our set plans, therefore, if my partner cannot keep this contained, I release myself from the relationship).
Click to expand...

Ah i didnt knew it was called that thank you! and yes i understand know it wasnt smart, totally blew up in my face.

i understand that you cant determine who your partner dates and who not, but seeing the girls past (sorry dont want to go into that to much) i have to admit that i thought it was right to call the "Veto" because i had the strong idea that if it goes wrong it could "damage" her more.
Was that wrong of me then?
 
I can't say whether it was "right" or "wrong," but it's a learning experience. Learning to trust your partner is the better answer, as using a "veto" rarely goes well--it breeds resentment, and shows a lack of trust in your partner, which is something that should be looked into. Why don't you trust him? Is it insecurity (are you afraid you'll "lose" him)? Does he have a history of making bad decisions that may negatively impact your life (and if so, do you want to progress with someone you can't trust in that regard)? Something else? Finding the answer to this will almost certainly be more helpful than keeping "veto" power in place, in the long run.


I am not saying that you should let her live with you (esp. if you believe she is unstable). You get to determine your living situation, and if he insists on living with her, you may want to consider whether or not you should be in the same house. But, as to him having a relationship with her, that is (in my opinion), his call. You can always set your boundaries for this, such as you will use condoms with him to ensure safe sex, or you need time for just you and him, etc. You should be specific about your needs, and ask him for specifics about his needs, then work together to determine specific actions (no one is a mind reader, and assuming someone is just makes for heartbreak down the line). Be clear, and concise, and remember that you can only control you--not other people.



Dragonlady said:
Ah i didnt knew it was called that thank you! and yes i understand know it wasnt smart, totally blew up in my face.

i understand that you cant determine who your partner dates and who not, but seeing the girls past (sorry dont want to go into that to much) i have to admit that i thought it was right to call the "Veto" because i had the strong idea that if it goes wrong it could "damage" her more.
Was that wrong of me then?
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oh but i did trust him! other wise i would have had a problem with her staying at our house.

And i think she is not stable for such a "difficult" relation. further she is quite responsible ect.
Further he already "made the mistake" so if they want to try it i wont be in the way. the "damage" is done so i dont need to be the "mind of reason" anymore
I was trying to watch out for them, saying what you want isnt always what you need
Does that make sense?
 
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HappilyFallenAngel said:
Only you can determine what is wrong or right for you, but I'll tell you that the policy that makes poly possible for me is that my partners' other relationships are none of my business unless I'm consulted. I'm in no position to be commentating from the sidelines on anyone else's relationships.
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i thought when you are in a poly the "new" partner needed to be "aproved" or something by the other, so you just make up the rules and everybody goes there merry way???
 
I work the same way as HappilyFallenAngel. While, as a decent human beings, we should all care about others, it is not up to us to make decisions for the relationships of others. Only they can do that. And, we have to trust our partners to do that. Or, at least, I couldn't be with someone I didn't trust to do that. So, I don't make judgement calls on their relationships.

I assume you believe your partner is a good person. He has met this lady and you hadn't (at least, it didn't sound like you had). Do you not trust him to do what is right, to assess his wants and needs with regards to what is appropriate and moral? It doesn't sound like you entirely do, or you'd have trusted his judgement on this relationship. If you don't trust him to do what is right and reasonable for his partners as well as himself, is there a reason for that (past decisions, insecurities, bad communication, etc)? That's something to *definitely* work out.



HappilyFallenAngel said:
Only you can determine what is wrong or right for you, but I'll tell you that the policy that makes poly possible for me is that my partners' relationships are none of my business. I'm in no position to be commentating from the sidelines on anyone else's relationships.
Click to expand...
 
Dragonlady said:
i thought when you are in a poly the "new" partner needed to be "aproved" or something by the other, so you just make up the rules and everybody goes there merry way???
Click to expand...

(Sorry, I deleted my response because I thought it was a bit preachy, but I'll respond:) )


People manage their poly groups in whatever way works for them, but in my world, things like "veto agreements" and "approval of new partners" are complete bullshit. I trust my partners to manage their own affairs and would never dream of vetting new partners.

As for the woman having an unstable or traumatic past, you really are in no postition to be managing her life. Your heart is in the right place, but you can't save her from what you imagine to be potential harm here. You can't possibly see the whole picture from your vantage point and you just make yourself crazy trying to. The most respectful approach is to have confidence in her and your BF that they will navigate in a way that they both get something out of.
 
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There is no "rule" in poly that says this. Some people practice it, but many don't. It is sounding like you want hierarchical poly, but with "veto" power in play on top of it. Do a site search here and read up a bit on "veto" power, and it might give you a better idea why people generally think it can be a problem (I'm not saying you can't do it, just that it presents some very real issues that should be talked about with both your BF, and any potential partners, upfront).

The reality is that you're going to be able to find something "wrong" with anyone your partner wants to date if you're looking for it.

Dragonlady said:
i thought when you are in a poly the "new" partner needed to be "aproved" or something by the other, so you just make up the rules and everybody goes there merry way???
Click to expand...
 
Ditto here. I won't date anyone with a veto in place.

HappilyFallenAngel said:
(Sorry, I deleted my response because I thought it was a bit preachy, but I'll respond:) )


People manage their poly groups in whatever way works for them, but in my world, things like "veto agreements" and "approval of new partners" are complete bullshit. I trust my partners to manage their own affairs and would never dream of vetting new partners.
Click to expand...
 
GreenAcres said:
I work the same way as HappilyFallenAngel. While, as a decent human beings, we should all care about others, it is not up to us to make decisions for the relationships of others. Only they can do that. And, we have to trust our partners to do that. Or, at least, I couldn't be with someone I didn't trust to do that. So, I don't make judgement calls on their relationships.

I assume you believe your partner is a good person. He has met this lady and you hadn't (at least, it didn't sound like you had). Do you not trust him to do what is right, to assess his wants and needs with regards to what is appropriate and moral? It doesn't sound like you entirely do, or you'd have trusted his judgement on this relationship. If you don't trust him to do what is right and reasonable for his partners as well as himself, is there a reason for that (past decisions, insecurities, bad communication, etc)? That's something to *definitely* work out.
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I do trust him to do what is right, that is why i was so disapointed to find out.
to my idea, you dont sleep with somebody who has been sexually abused. you give them a save heaven, and let them feel save. once you have that and more comes from it oke. but the person needs to be "stable" first.
that is what we discussed and he agreeded on with me.
Now she feels "dirty" because she thought i knew that they where sleeping together
 
Dragonlady said:
to my idea, you dont sleep with somebody who has been sexually abused. you give them a save heaven, and let them feel save. once you have that and more comes from it oke. but the person needs to be "stable" first.
Click to expand...

As someone who's experienced sexual abuse (as has about half the world, it seems....) I'll say that an important part of recovery is learning how to manage one's own sex life. Again, your heart is in the right place, but this whole thing is something that this woman and your BF need to work out. It sounds like there is basically a lot of good will here, so let them negotiate and learn from this experience. Most people who have been sexually abused go on to make mistakes in relationships, as do people who don't have this background. Mistakes are a big part of how we learn to do things right. Everyone needs to learn for him/herself how to form satisfying, respectful, loving intimacies. You can express confidence and care for this young woman without getting involved in the inner workings of her relationship with your man.
 
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Dragonlady, I am glad you have had a chance to talk with them, and allow them space to work on things!
 
Dragonlady said:
i thought when you are in a poly the "new" partner needed to be "aproved" or something by the other, so you just make up the rules and everybody goes there merry way???
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. I do not approve of who my partner dates, unless it's someone he's thinking of dating together. Obviously that directly affects me. I'll also help him consider new dating partners.
 
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