Trust issues

[Cee]

It could also be that, like my husband, he only wants deep friendships with benefits; not a casual dalliance but someone he is friends with and cares for but he isn't romantically attracted to. It didn't make him immune to NRE and infatuation!

I think Felix might be the same way, or at least he's expressed the desire for the same kind of relationship with Susan. The level of deep in the FWB configuration is debatable, but he's told me he doesn't want to just fuck and then be done with it, but that he'd like to be able to hang out with her as well, and develop at least some kind of a relationship besides just fucking, albeit not a romantic one (although they are friends already, just not close or intimate ones). I think FWB would indeed describe it best, but I've told him that for most people, FWB relationships are always kind of risky, since at least one of the people involved is usually bound to develop romantic feelings anyway, and that results into a lot of drama, tears and heartbreak, if the relationship structure or the people involved won't allow a reconfiguration. This relationship with Susan has plenty of potential for that, because Susan apparently doesn't want to share her romantic partners, but would be able to share her sexual partners.

FWB or a regular sexual partner is still definitely less scary and more understandable to me than a string of casual one night stands and hook-ups. I honestly don't think that a partner who would want the latter would be a suitable partner for me, even if I'd try to frame it as a series of intimate connections. That framing still helps with FWB though.

 

[ElMango]

I've told him that for most people, FWB relationships are always kind of risky, since at least one of the people involved is usually bound to develop romantic feelings anyway, and that results into a lot of drama, tears and heartbreak, if the relationship structure or the people involved won't allow a reconfiguration. This relationship with Susan has plenty of potential for that, because Susan apparently doesn't want to share her romantic partners, but would be able to share her sexual partners.

Having no room for a change in dynamics is what makes the idea of (more long term) FWB really strange to me and more likely to fail. Someone you see once every few months and don't talk to often? Less so, and definitely easier to keep lines from changing.

FWB or a regular sexual partner is still definitely less scary and more understandable to me than a string of casual one night stands and hook-ups. I honestly don't think that a partner who would want the latter would be a suitable partner for me, even if I'd try to frame it as a series of intimate connections. That framing still helps with FWB though.

For me a string of casual hook-ups would not jive with my personality for it would be something I just couldn't really understand doing. As well as potential health issues with STIs and such, honestly, as much as they probably shouldn't make me very uncomfortable. So, I choose to be with people who share that POV.

 

[vinsanity0]

FWB or a regular sexual partner is still definitely less scary and more understandable to me than a string of casual one night stands and hook-ups. I honestly don't think that a partner who would want the latter would be a suitable partner for me, even if I'd try to frame it as a series of intimate connections. That framing still helps with FWB though.

This is super interesting to me because it is usually the exact opposite of what most people think, especially people new to non-monogamy. Most people find it scary if their partners are seeking intimate romantic relationships. I remember being a little relieved that my wife was only into FWB.

 

[Maur]

Hmm. I honestly don't know what Felix could say otherwise before encounter with Sarah. I mean, from your OP it seems to me he wanted to have sex with her (and you likely know a lot more than me!). Did you want to hear it explicitly?

I kind of... well, i once was 'chastized' (perhaps too strong of a word) because i said there will be sex and there wasn't any (as if it were under my complete control!). I mean, sometimes all you can say is that there is a likelihood and so on...

What should have he said, given his knowledge? What did you need to hear that was still realistic technically?

 

[Cee]

This is super interesting to me because it is usually the exact opposite of what most people think, especially people new to non-monogamy. Most people find it scary if their partners are seeking intimate romantic relationships. I remember being a little relieved that my wife was only into FWB.

I know, and Felix finds it strange as well. I think for me it has to do with change and stability. I’ve never been very good at handling change and in a way, you could say that with polyamory I am inviting trouble because things are always less stable and at flux than with monogamy. For me, polyamory is still worth it because in addition to change, it invites challenge, but for me a more understandable challenge that has the potential to enrich our lives in beautiful ways. I know the same could be said about FWB or casual sex, but every new partner that we add, be it sexual or romantic, knocks the balance off temporarily a bit even in our relationship and even in me. I view long term romantic relationships more stable in terms of change (new people added) than more short term arrangements like FWB or casual hook-ups. I don’t know if it makes any sense, but that’s the way I see it.

 

[Cee]

Hmm. I honestly don't know what Felix could say otherwise before encounter with Sarah. I mean, from your OP it seems to me he wanted to have sex with her (and you likely know a lot more than me!). Did you want to hear it explicitly?

I kind of... well, i once was 'chastized' (perhaps too strong of a word) because i said there will be sex and there wasn't any (as if it were under my complete control!). I mean, sometimes all you can say is that there is a likelihood and so on...

What should have he said, given his knowledge? What did you need to hear that was still realistic technically?

I needed to hear that the possibility of sex is back on the table so that we could discuss it beforehand and I could sort of prepare myself for it. I didn't need to hear the details explicitly afterwards and the only reason I asked for them in this instance was because I was totally surprised by their relationship going to that direction, felt blindsided and lied to and unable to trust him in what he told me. I needed to figure out if he was telling me the truth because of our history of cheating and trickle truth.

Your story of being chastised is interesting (and a bit horrible), because Felix told me that he felt like if he'd give me the heads-up beforehand, it's almost as if it would make him forced to have sex because otherwise I'd be preparing myself for nothing and that's not how I see it at all. What they decide to do or not do in terms of sex after the inital warning of things heading to that direction is their business and me being prepared for "nothing" is mine to handle, not anything he should worry about at that point anymore.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I know, and Felix finds it strange as well. I think for me it has to do with change and stability.

Again, mindset could be helpful here. If you detach yourself from Felix' relationships more than you are now, casual flings and ONS won't negate your stability. After all, why should it? These people are in and out of his life, not yours - so why would it rock your daily life?

I have friends and partners who have a "rule" where they don't want to know about new people unless they're going to be sticking around and attending the more "inner circle" events. I say "rule" and not rule because it isn't forbidden to bring up an event at a recent date or hook up in casual conversation but it's not encouraged with those people.

Part of that is because they have trouble detaching themselves to a degree where hearing these things won't cause them some form of issue so they counteract that by defining their boundaries around safer sex and requesting limited details about casual partners.

The key thing is that they trust their partners to keep safer sex agreements and judge when the time is right disclose. What helps with the latter is that nobody is too bothered that this is done at exactly the right time. It's almost natural that by the time it goes from date to FWB to partner, the people who need to know about the relationship already do.

 

[ElMango]

I have friends and partners who have a "rule" where they don't want to know about new people unless they're going to be sticking around and attending the more "inner circle" events. I say "rule" and not rule because it isn't forbidden to bring up an event at a recent date or hook up in casual conversation but it's not encouraged with those people.

I actually really like this idea! It can be really soothing for some people to only have the knowledge of the 'important' (I use "" because I can't think of a better word right now) new people. It would be a great starting point idea to build off of and tweak if the initial idea isn't 100% right for your relationship!

Great advice Seasoned

 

[Cee]

Again, mindset could be helpful here. If you detach yourself from Felix' relationships more than you are now, casual flings and ONS won't negate your stability. After all, why should it? These people are in and out of his life, not yours - so why would it rock your daily life?

I have friends and partners who have a "rule" where they don't want to know about new people unless they're going to be sticking around and attending the more "inner circle" events. I say "rule" and not rule because it isn't forbidden to bring up an event at a recent date or hook up in casual conversation but it's not encouraged with those people.

I need to know every time a new sexual partner is added because of safety reasons. Condoms only protect against some STIs, not all. I am willing to work on whether I'm being told before or after the fact, but this is an absolute boundary for me that will not change and this is one of the main reasons why someone who's into a lot of casual hook-ups would not be a suitable partner for me. So, this might be great advice for some people, but not for me. Thanks for trying though.

 

[ElMango]

If you look at the future, what would your ideal relationship with a meta be? Friends, just someone you know of in passing, acquaintances? Sometimes knowing what we want in terms of the whole encompassing polycule helps.

I know for me what I find hard is not if my partner is with another person, but if they themselves are a mystery (so like...the exact opposite of a lot of people). I WANT to be friends or even happy acquaintances with my metas. My ideal is that I want to be friends, not really any level preference casual to best all work, with a meta.
As time has gone on, if I know sex may happen with a new person my partners know they they need to talk about past STI tests, and use condoms, first. I'm curious and so I just like hearing them tell me about potential dates. Then I get to know their name, and the basic before a first date info.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I'm confused. If you know he follows agreed safer sex agreements like barriers and screening partners for STDs or whatever you decide between yourselves, how would knowing that it's happened change your next actions?

I don't think I'm being clear. Imagine my partner and I decide between us that condoms with all other partners for penetrative sex and annual testing is enough to counteract the risk of STD transmission, how would me knowing they've had another sex partner and followed those agreements make me safer than if they just followed the agreements and I didn't know they hooked up with someone.

 

[Cee]

I'm confused. If you know he follows agreed safer sex agreements like barriers and screening partners for STDs or whatever you decide between yourselves, how would knowing that it's happened change your next actions?

I understand it might be confusing when you don't know the details or the backround, but it makes perfect sense to me and my partner, and that's all that matters. Suffice it to say that I have some trauma related to this and (unrelated to that trauma) I don't fully trust Felix's judgement on these things. Ideally he would like to go about these things as he would when he was single, but he's not, and every decision he makes has the potential to affect me as well.

 

[Cee]

If you look at the future, what would your ideal relationship with a meta be? Friends, just someone you know of in passing, acquaintances? Sometimes knowing what we want in terms of the whole encompassing polycule helps.

I suppose I'm a lot like you. Ideally, I'd like to be friends with my meta, but I understand it depends on so many things (whether we like each other or not, whether they would like to be friends or not). Him sleeping with someone else is instantly less scary if I at least have the potentail to get to know them a bit, talk to them and get a feel of who they are. I have met Susan once and she seemed really nice (albeit drunk at that time ). I'm curious about the people Felix is interested in as well and I do ask a lot of questions because of that. It's actually really fun to be excited with him!

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I understand it might be confusing when you don't know the details or the backround, but it makes perfect sense to me and my partner, and that's all that matters. Suffice it to say that I have some trauma related to this and (unrelated to that trauma) I don't fully trust Felix's judgement on these things. Ideally he would like to go about these things as he would when he was single, but he's not, and every decision he makes has the potential to affect me as well.

Okay but it is fairly important not to confuse that you might be emotionally safer that way, but it doesn't make you safer in terms of STD transmission.

I don't often give links of poly writers, but I read one this week which resonated:

https://poly.land/2019/06/19/that-wont-work-if-your-partner-is-behaving-like-a-terrible-person/

 

[ElMango]

I suppose I'm a lot like you. Ideally, I'd like to be friends with my meta, but I understand it depends on so many things (whether we like each other or not, whether they would like to be friends or not). Him sleeping with someone else is instantly less scary if I at least have the potentail to get to know them a bit, talk to them and get a feel of who they are. I have met Susan once and she seemed really nice (albeit drunk at that time ). I'm curious about the people Felix is interested in as well and I do ask a lot of questions because of that. It's actually really fun to be excited with him!

I know for me because I have had some trauma getting to know the neta is what makes me comfortable with my partners fluid bonding with others. It's not the I don't trust my partner's; if I don't know my meta i don't trust them. When you don't trust a person...how can you be comfortable?

It's one reason we're kitchen table. Having the ability to say "can we all have a casual dinner together?" Or "do either of you mind if I get [Metas] snapchat?" Makes it not scary.

Because it's not that I don't want to share, i really do!

 

[vinsanity0]

I know for me because I have had some trauma getting to know the neta is what makes me comfortable with my partners fluid bonding with others. It's not the I don't trust my partner's; if I don't know my meta i don't trust them. When you don't trust a person...how can you be comfortable?

It's one reason we're kitchen table. Having the ability to say "can we all have a casual dinner together?" Or "do either of you mind if I get [Metas] snapchat?" Makes it not scary.

Because it's not that I don't want to share, i really do!

While I'm not into kitchen table poly, it is refreshing to see someone who is honest about why they want it.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Or "do either of you mind if I get [Metas] snapchat?"

I know what Snapchat is, but what does it mean to get someone's snapchat?

 

[ElMango]

While I'm not into kitchen table poly, it is refreshing to see someone who is honest about why they want it.

That makes me wonder what other people have for reasons for KT style poly.

I like making new friends for sure; but I want to trust people in my life. I have family I don't even trust and so I treat them accordingly. It's hard for me to feel comfortable with even FRIENDS seeing someone I'm like "dude, they seem reaaaally sketchy", when it's a romantic partners partner, their lives, even in DADT, can and will affect mine. You can trust someone and not like them; which I think was a large motivator for KT style. We all want to trust that our loved ones are with someone we trust, even if we hate them.

As a polycule we decided that it best suits us, even if we NEVER EVER end up talking to our metas; having the opinion open helps. Especially now that J is an ex meta in a now more complex situation; if she were to rejoin our polycule, Z and I for sure want to have a polycule 'group meeting', with her, B and any of her partners. Having that kitchen table set up allows up to have the full on ability to keep air clear and open up communication between any metas anyone has. As well as if there's an emergency, anyone can get in contact with anyone in a pinch.

--

FallenAngelina,

it's a phone chat thing mainly based on pictures and filters.

 

[FallenAngelina]

FallenAngelina,

it's a phone chat thing mainly based on pictures and filters.

I know what Snapchat is, but what does it mean to get someone's Snapchat? Do you mean that you'd be exchanging Snaps? I'm just trying to understand the wording. Like, on Facebook you friend someone, on Twitter you follow, on YouTube you subscribe.

 

[vinsanity0]

That makes me wonder what other people have for reasons for KT style poly.

I like making new friends for sure; but I want to trust people in my life. I have family I don't even trust and so I treat them accordingly. It's hard for me to feel comfortable with even FRIENDS seeing someone I'm like "dude, they seem reaaaally sketchy", when it's a romantic partners partner, their lives, even in DADT, can and will affect mine. You can trust someone and not like them; which I think was a large motivator for KT style. We all want to trust that our loved ones are with someone we trust, even if we hate them.

As a polycule we decided that it best suits us, even if we NEVER EVER end up talking to our metas; having the opinion open helps. Especially now that J is an ex meta in a now more complex situation; if she were to rejoin our polycule, Z and I for sure want to have a polycule 'group meeting', with her, B and any of her partners. Having that kitchen table set up allows up to have the full on ability to keep air clear and open up communication between any metas anyone has. As well as if there's an emergency, anyone can get in contact with anyone in a pinch.

--

FallenAngelina,

it's a phone chat thing mainly based on pictures and filters.

I think most people have the same reason you do, to keep an eye on things. They just pretend it's all about making new friends. No offense but I think it comes from insecurity. But then again, I have social anxiety so my judgement could be clouded by that.

At any rate, I've always trusted my partners' judgement. They are adults after all.