First Poly Relationship, Need Advice

T

TankDiveGirl

New member
Hi everyone,

I've got a little bit of a situation that I need some advice about. Maybe you guys could help.

A little background: my wife Lex and I have been married for 2 years, together for 5. I have considered myself a lesbian-identified bisexual for a really long time. She has had sex with men, but considers herself a lesbian as far as emotional/romantic relationships are concerned. She enjoys sex with men, but doesn't have the deep emotional connection with them, as she does with women.

We're new to poly, though we've both been curious about it for quite some time. I'm the hinge of a FFM vee, with my boyfriend Sam being the other end of the vee. He's monogamous, or had been until he met me, and is not currently interested in seeing anyone other than me. He's friends with my wife, but he's not in a relationship with her.

The issue: I went about opening our relationship entirely too fast. I take full responsibility for this, but am, of course, dealing with the fallout now, and I have been since the beginning. Things are slowly beginning to resolve, and I'm trying very hard not to hurry them along. Currently, the main issue is that I have felt like I have had to either not tell the whole truth, omit details, or cover some aspects of my relationship with Sam to keep Lex comfortable with how the situation was progressing. We have pushed past her boundaries in many many ways, and it has, of course, come back to bite us in the butt.

Lex and I have been discussing and rehashing a lot of the things that have happened in the past, and she had been in a better place with things mentally, until yesterday, when it came out that an old friend of hers confronted our roommate (entirely different person, not involved with either of us romantically) to see if she knew that I was "cheating on her," because she had seen me holding hands with Sam at school. Lex blew up and has said that I've betrayed her trust (which I have; I will acknowledge that), and that she doesn't know if she can forgive me this thing.

Admittedly, I wasn't clear with Sam that we couldn't be open about our relationship at school, because the majority of the people that he and I are friends with already knew that he and I were dating, and that my wife was okay with this. I see that this was a major mistake on my part.

The three of us love each other deeply and are committed to making this work, so please don't tell me to drop him and try again later with someone else. We know there are issues to be worked out, and we are addressing them. What I would like to know is if there's a way to show her that I still absolutely adore her and that I will respect her boundaries and her limits from now on, even though he and I have both screwed up in the past.

We're still involved in a lot of NRE (which is why I covered up some of the things previously, because she felt like she was getting short-shrifted in the relationship), but things are becoming more even-keeled, especially since school has ended for the semester and I have much more time to spend with both of them, and my time isn't crunched into an hour here, a minute there, etc.

I apologize for the book. Thanks for listening,
 
TankDiveGirl said:
What I would like to know is if there's a way to show her that I still absolutely adore her and that I will respect her boundaries and her limits from now on, even though he and I have both screwed up in the past?
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Tell her. Show her. Show her. Tell her.
 
Talk

You guys really need to just sit down and talk.

Communication, communication, communication.

From what I've read you are the middle Female in a V with Sam at one end and Lex at the other. That's great. But what I also read was that Lex really didn't know that Sam was in a sexual relationships with you, or maybe she did know that, but she didn't know that you two were out hand-holding, kissing, whatever, with public displays of these.

You all have to sit down and communicate your needs, your boundaries, what you are willing to do about scheduling time for each other. There's a good chapter in The Polyamory Handbook that deals with resolving issues, both past and present. There's also a good look at how to put together a Polyamorous Relationship Agreement between everyone involved.

Talk, talk, talk.

I know it's easy to know that you have to do that, but hard to actually get down to it. Be honest. Be yourself, if you want to be happy in any relationship. I hope you 3 can come to an agreement that will meet everyone's need's and wants and desires.
 
WaywardDruid said:
What I also read was Lex really didn't know that Sam was having a sexual relationships with you. or maybe she did know that, but she didn't know that you two were "out" and hand holding, kissing, whatever, with public displays of these.
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Lex knew that Sam and I were being intimate sexually. She did not know that we were holding hands and whatnot at school. We were being discreet, we thought, but obviously not discreet enough. She had told both of us that she wasn't comfortable with us being out at school, and I should have been much more "aggressive" about how that boundary was respected than I had been. I can totally see why she's upset and where she's coming from.

The three of us do talk, a lot. I will say though, that speaking about emotions and relationship issues and stuff is NOT easy for me. and never has been, so this whole thing is super challenging for me. Fortunately both Lex and Sam are understanding and also both very in touch with their emotions and needs.

I agree that all three of us need to sit down and discuss boundaries and needs in these relationships. We haven't done that yet, and I haven't pushed it, though I feel like I should have been the one to arrange that conversation, since I'm the one who is the center of the V. One thing that we have all spoken about is everyone's comfort level. The three of us work really really well together as a functional unit. We're pretty great. But you're right, we need to talk and talk and talk and talk, and we don't always do that. Thanks for the advice.
 
TankDiveGirl said:
Lex did not know that we were holding hands at school.
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Handholding is such a serious matter! My god! Imagine ... pretty soon mere friends will be doing it, in full public view! That would be the end of civilization as we know it! Stop immediately! No more public displays of affection! Civilization is at stake!
 
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The issue wasn't the holding of hands, it was that none of us are supposed to be "out," because she's not comfortable with the general public knowing that we're poly. Or more specifically, she's not comfortable with people knowing that we're poly that she hasn't told. I understand this; she wants to have control over who knows and who doesn't, and she also wants to be the one to decide which of our groups of friends he gets introduced to, and in which order. This is okay with me, and it's okay with him, because we understand the importance of moving at the pace of the least comfortable individual. We just thought we were being more discreet than we were, apparently.
 
All of that I can understand well enough. The part I find strange is that handholding plays a role in it. I can and do hold hands with friends. So what?! I have been known even to kiss friends on the cheek or forehead! or walk with my arm around them! in public!
 
I think that the fact that we were out at school at all is the issue, not the fact that we were holding hands. I do hold hands with my female friends, but when Sam and I are together, I'd venture to say it's pretty obvious that there's something other than just friendship going on. Add to that, the deep-seated fears on Lex's part, because all of her past relationships have ended with her female partners leaving her for men, and you get one scared cookie. I've tried to be very aware of that, but I know that Sam and I moved too quickly at the beginning for her comfort, and when she expressed her feelings about that, I didn't respect them.

There's a whole lot going on in this situation, lots of background that's getting worked through and rehashed. But the main issue is that she feels like I don't care about her feelings or her boundaries. I do, an incredible amount, but I'm not very good at the reassurance part. And while I'm working to improve that, things keep getting mired in triggers for her and defensiveness for me. I'm being honest though, and I'm doing the best I can at the moment. I know these things take time, especially when they've started off in about the worst way possible.
 
I think you just have to show her over time. It sounds like you know where the boundaries are, and you knew you were going over them. It seems that you have figured out that it would go a lot better to talk about it to her beforehand, instead.

Is she feeling insecure, or just angry that other people will know what she may consider intimate details about her life?
 
You are smart and sensitive to understand that the the comfort levels of everyone have to be respected, even though you were not able to do so. And indeed, it seems so trite and innocent, the hand holding. But nevertheless, it was a betrayal of trust. It is so easy for those of us who betray to justify it, explain it, and minimize its significance. But for those who are betrayed, the foundation of their world disappears.

I think that you need to do what your wife needs to heal the betrayal and get the trust back. Hope this helps!
 
It's both... She's feeling insecure because she feels like I've been trying to create a life that's separate from her, and she feels like I'm more excited about him than I am about her. (Like I said before, there's LOTS of NRE going on between him and me.) She's scared right now that I'm going to leave or, conversely, that I'm going to try to force her to accept him as another primary partner, when she's not even entirely sure that being out as poly is an okay thing.

I'm totally willing now to go back and take the time I didn't take before. I know that I put us in this place where she's scared and hurt and jealous, etc., and it's up to me to make sure that she knows that I still love her and don't take her for granted, or anything like that. It's a tough situation though, because, like I said, I never really learned to talk about my feelings and my needs, and I'm getting a crash course in it now.

Thanks for the replies, everybody. I've been reading them as they come in. I appreciate everyone's point of view.
 
It may also help if you read some books on polyamory. We grow up in a culture where we know how couples are "supposed to" act. We have to guess and figure out how poly relationships are "supposed to" be. So reading some books on the subject may help everyone involved to feel more comfortable and understanding.

There are other poly groups like these forums, podcasts, conventions, that may or may not be your thing.
 
I think you've gotten one of the biggest pieces, communication. You all have to be able to talk about everything that goes on in your relationships. When my wife and I first started out, we had a lot of the same issues/concerns. I needed to make sure that my wife understood that the new excitement was part of ANY new relationship. It had nothing to do with wanting to be with the other person more, it was just... new.

Like others have said, you have to constantly show and reinforce to Lex that you love her and are never going to leave her. In our situation, my wife has always had total "veto" power. She knows that she has complete ability to say no to someone that she doesn't feel comfortable with, whether they are someone I date separately or bring home. I think that's helped her tremendously.

The other part is to show Lex that you're not hiding anything from her. More importantly, DON'T HIDE ANYTHING FROM HER! I know there are going to be things that she might not like, but you won't know that until you tell her. She's also got to understand that until those things come up and she discusses them with you, she can't get upset about them, i.e., handholding in public. If she didn't specify that this was a no-no, then she shouldn't get upset with you until AFTER she's already talked to you about it and you decided to do it anyway. Not that you would, of course.

I know how it feels to want things to work and to feel like you're the one that has to be that catalyst. I think you're doing a great job of trying to make sure that everyone is happy, but in order to really ensure that, you have to have those totally open lines of communication.

I look forward to seeing how things go. Please please ask any questions that you might have.
 
That's the thing that I wasn't totally clear about. I knew that being out at school (handholding, etc.) was one of her boundaries, and I knowingly crossed that boundary. The reason isn't so much that she's uncomfortable with us being out at school, though she's not comfortable with that, but it's that I work in the building where her department is housed, and I work with Sam. Her friend that saw us together works in that building also, and many of Lex's professors and colleagues either have offices or teach classes in this building. So it's not just a matter of her not wanting "people" to know, but of her not wanting to jeopardize her professional and academic career, because her colleagues are uncomfortable with her lifestyle choices.

Lex does have complete veto power. She and Sam are friends, and get along famously, so she hasn't felt like she's had to use it, which is good, because I think that things will work out. It's just a question of going back to basics and making sure everyone is REALLY on the same page before we continue, rather than just barging ahead and assuming.

I have embarked on a policy of complete and total honesty, which i think will serve us all well in the long run. I don't want to cause any more hurt or distrust between us, because she doesn't deserve that. I love her more than i've ever loved anyone, which is why i married her, and I appreciate so much that she's willing to take this journey with me. And i know i've done a lot of wrong things in starting this out the way I did, but i'm working on rectifying the situation and making it mutually agreeable to all three of us. And i know that open and honest communication is really the only way to do that.
 
You are now ready for the Jedi Poly trials. (Man, I'm a geek!!) Seriously though, you hit it right on the head. Open and honest communication is key. I'm not going to wish you luck, because I'm sure you all will work this out.

If you have any other questions, please ask. Also, let us know how things are going. I know I LOVE seeing another successful poly group out there.
 
I do have one other question, actually. This is something that's really really frustrating to me, and I'm not sure how to fix it. Lex constantly compares herself to Sam, especially in sexual situations. I KNOW that this is one of the worst things that she can do, but the few times I've brought it up, she just gets her feelings deeply hurt. I've tried explaining the differences between how I love each of them, but she isn't reassured by that for more than a day or so.

Is there a way to make that easier? Or is that another one of the things that will just take time (and wearing off of NRE) to get through?

You guys have been so helpful, so far. *hugs*
 
Yeah, that's another one of those time things. In my experience in this lifestyle, that was the only thing that really showed my wife that I didn't love someone else more than her. That, along with constant, and I mean constant, reassurance. Make sure your wife knows that it's not a comparison game. Has she read, or done any research on the polyamory? That might help her.

Maybe she could come here and ask a few questions.

Big thing to remember too, is to put no pressure on her. She'll come around on her own time. That may not be the schedule that you were hoping for, but if you want it to work (and I know you do) then she's gonna have to work through some things on her own.
 
Danny40179 said:
Yeah, that's another one of those time things. That was the only thing that really showed my wife that I didn't love someone else more than her, along with constant, and I mean constant, reassurance. Make sure your wife knows that it's not a comparison game. Has she read, or done any research on the poly lifestyle? Big thing to remember too, is to put no pressure on her. She'll come around on her own time. That may not be the schedule that you were hoping for, but if you want it to work, then she's gonna have to work through things on her own.
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She does know it's not a comparison game; I've made that abundantly clear. I also have given her tons of reasons why I'm not leaving, why I haven't stopped loving her, or even CHANGED my love for her at all. We've both been doing a lot of reading about poly and stuff, and I've requested some books from the library too. So as soon as those get here we'll start looking at them more.

She's been reading this thread; she hasn't joined the forums yet, but she probably will.

My attitude about this is that we have all the time in the world. Sam says that he doesn't want anything else and that he's not going anywhere, and Lex says she wants this to work out, and I know I'll do whatever it takes to help that to happen.

I have nothing but time. Being a student, all I have this summer is some research and the two of them. So by the end of the summer (3 months from now), I think we'll have some sort of workable schedule and whatnot for next school year.

Sam just graduated. He's doing the job search. Lex is about a year and a half behind me. We'll be in this area for quite some time yet. I'm not pushing things. I tried that, and it blew up in my face. I won't be doing that again.

Thanks again.
 
I'm sorry for not putting my 2 cents in earlier, but have been away on vacation and not near a computer. Welcome to the forum. Try to get Lex and Sam to join in too.

I am a relatively new member myself. My wife has just joined, as has our 3rd. They are doing plenty of reading. I am doing all the commenting I'm the big blogger in the home. I'm sure that will change as they become more comfortable with the forum and start opening up themselves.

Now back to you, Lex and Sam.

You said something critical earlier about how Lex had lost a previous partner to a man. There has to be some serious baggage for her on that topic, and clearly it could be a big reason for her feeling that, "Uh oh, here we go again" sensation. Clearly she doesn't want to have to live through that situation happening again, with you. I can sense her panic at the thought of having to live it again. Panic and fear make us react in not so nice or measured ways.

Secondarily, she may have issues with control in this threesome, and needs to control who (in the public arena) knows about it. I can relate there. My wife and I have lived in the same small community for 26 years and literally know thousands of our town folk. As we moved into polyamory, one of the things that most worried her, was that someone would see me and our 3rd sharing some PDA. Part of her worry was about shame, I think, and having people calling her to let her know that they saw her husband out about town with another woman on his arm. Yikes! She was afraid they'd giggle under their breath, or perhaps offer their sympathy, which would in turn be very embarrassing for her. Not fun. So I can see in your predicament, with school, departments at work, etc., that she might have a whole range of feelings she's going through.

As everyone else here has said, talking is the only way to solve any of this. And of course, developing a little "thick skin" as to what anyone else in town thinks of your threesome never hurts, either. Living polyamorously has indeed been an education and a fantastic growing process for me, personally.

It sounds like you have a really good threesome going. I'm sure you all will be able to iron out your issues over the next few months.

Keep at it. Keep loving!
 
Yeah, society projects a feeling of shame on a person who appears to be cheated on and doesn't know it. When I was in my triad, this was one of the worries of my first girlfriend. Neighbors and people at the restaurants we go to would judge her as being a "cuckold." (I don't think there is a word for a woman.)

At first, we just hid all PDAs and acted as good friends. But my other girlfriend kind of felt left out. So we went the other extreme and showed PDAs while all three of us were around town together. Then the neighbors just assumed we were kinky instead. I guess that is better than the neighbors feeling sympathy for you.
 
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