Changing Feelings-- Triad to Vee

[ThatGirlInGray]

I was still (is this too dramatic a word?) TRAUMATIZED.

Nope, not too dramatic at all.

Maybe in theory I am, but in actuality it's just too weird for me.

Or maybe things weren't done in small enough steps to adequately process. Or maybe you haven't found the way that polyamory works FOR YOU. Or...

Do you get my point? It's really hard to tell at this point if you're "poly" or not.

I did think about dating someone else. I put up an ad, and found this rad guy. He was down to earth and kind. We went on a date. Then I was like, wtf am i doing? We got on great. He was sexy, stable, in an open marriage, looking for exactly what i would be, if I weren't in such a shitty place right now. Starting something now would NOT BE SMART! I don't want to complicate everything even more when I have some stuff to figure out first.

GOOD FOR YOU! I'm sure that had it's own level of suckiness, having to pass on this potential connection, but it sounds like you're absolutely doing your best to be smart and mature through this journey.

Yeah, I think in some ways because I started this, I should be all evolved, and have it figured out, like I should be navigating these shark-infested waters like a pro. Instead, I'm choking on saltwater and wondering why the hell my life raft isn't working.

I get this. As for me, I am the one being shared, so I should have it easy, right? And yet, more often than not, I'm the one with jealousy issues. The boys both handle it WAY better than I do sometimes, and this Vee I'm in started over 2 years ago!

So, try not to be so hard on yourself. No one EVER has everything figured out, and the process to get even a small portion figured out can take months to years!

That's why I've been kind of trying to force myself to be okay with them "vee-ing off." But really, it's not what i want.

Yeah, you won't be happy forcing yourself to go along with something you don't want. It's one thing to push yourself to get over feelings of discomfort or anxiety that are more a result of personal issues than the actions of the people involved, but another to flat-out do something you DON'T want to do just for someone else.

(Sorry for the two long posts in a row, but I had to address things separately for the sake of my own thought processes.)

 

[opalescent]

I can tell from his face that something is wrong... Phoebe has FB messaged us and broken up with us. I try to digest this... I'm reading her message. I find out that she's been reading this forum, and is totally upset from my post last night and is done.

... Worst? She says she thinks I'm not poly, and that she's some kind of fucking experiment. WHAT? WHATTT????? FUCK! I'm so heartbroken and gut-kicked right now. I wrote her back from my heart, trying so hard to stay sane. I doubt there's any chance for reconciliation now.

My first thought was: what adult breaks up with someone via Facebook message?

Second: if she was that upset about your postings, then why not talk about it with you and Owen? Yes, that's a hard conversation, but that's what grown-ups do.

Third: setting aside your relationship with her, if she bails on Owen, with whom she is deep in NRE, over anonymous personal musings on the intertubes, what would have happened when shit got really difficult? You know, like, health problems, job loss, death in the family, the hard stuff?

Finally, except for making Owen's dick happy, why would you want to reconcile?

 

[CherryBlossomGirl]

Good talks with my sis

Thanks for everyone's responses.

This day is kicking my ass emotionally. I'm pretty much a wreck.

ThatGirlinGrey, thanks for your list of hey you, listen ups. It was very helpful for me, except for #2. Phoebe has been really awesome about trying to respect boundaries, very careful, really receptive.

The only major transgression was the naked event, and I'm not even very blamey about that one. I've been trying to focus on my own response to that, instead of writing it off in their actions, and have been since the day it happened.

#4 is a little off too, because I feel like up until Phoebe read my posts, she was willing to do the work, talk it out, etc. I think that my saying I wouldn't date her independently, and was too pissed off to even really be friends right now (hence needing a total break to get clear), was too much, especially since in independent communication I have been continually expressing a desire to work things out.

I think I've pushed way past her comfort zone with my upset and need to process everything. I have been WAY emotional, and WAY overprocessy. It's my go-to when I'm feeling emotionally messed up, and that is a big issue for me. It's part of the reason I went on a break from communication, and turned to this board-- so that I could process HERE, and get clear before going back to her/him. That went well! Oops. Sheeeeesh.

I truly appreciate your compassion, and for you validating that I have a right to my experience and feelings. Thank you for that.

I don't feel like my work has been wasted. Whether things work out with her or not, I need to sort through this stuff, both personally, and in my primary relationship with Owen, if we're gonna keep being poly.

Currently, Owen is saying he doesn't want to continue with polyamory, as this has sucked so hard. Awesome! I'm feeling great about that! [sarcasm]

Opalescent, I think she was hurt, upset, angry and lashing out. I think Phoebe is tired of trying to talk to me about her feelings, because she doesn't feel like I hear her.

She doesn't want to bail on Owen. I'm trying to figure out if I can be cool with the two of them seeing each other without me. I guess until this afternoon, I really DID think that we could reconcile, after I sorted out my shit. Now I'm starting to realize how wrong I was about that.

I don't even know why I'm still writing on here, given that I'm totally outed to both of the people that I was seeking space from-- to just have a place to confide, to get advice from people who might be willing to share their wisdom and experience to help me get through this. But I guess I just can't enjoy that independent experience on my own. What's more, my basically private musings are now having decisions made on them. I feel upset about that, but it's my own fault for not saying, "Hey, I'm posting on polyamory.com. Please don't read it." It's my own fault for not lining up public with private completely. I didn't know public would BECOME private.

Shoot. Double shoot.

I said to her, "I never would have been so blunt if I thought your eyes would see my words. They were for me, not for you. For my heart, not for yours. For my healing, not for your destruction."

So, this is where I am. Tumultuous, not easy, not fun, problematic.

I came home from work early, because trying to do my job right now is just ridiculous.

I had an hour-long phone conversation with my sister. She has been poly for years, and knows what works for her through some (pretty intense) trial and error. She is under the same general impression that I have been thinking about for well over a month-- either get some peace around letting the two of them see each other independently, or let it go altogether; to not let this experience define poly for me; that we had lousy boundaries; got way ahead of ourselves; had some trust stuff happen; that ALL of that is pretty normal when starting out in poly; that I shouldn't allow one messed-up experience to colour my entire viewpoint of being poly with Owen; that having major issues in a poly-fi triad might just mean that *gasp* a poly-fi triad might not be the right set-up for us: a less involved relationship or a vee might be better; that there are lots of ways to be poly, and that expecting any one way to work just sets everyone involved up for failure.

She told me to be gentle with myself; to allow myself the time to heal my hurt; to reconnect with Owen; to take space from gf (wait, ex-gf, woah) and see if I can come back to a place of being friends with her.

She said to see the dude I met as friends, and not get involved until I was clear, if at all.

She said not to worry if my ex-gf can't handle my emotions; that I am my own person, and deserve to be loved and accepted just as I am, even if I have issues; that no one is perfect; and to stop beating myself up.

My sis and I have had some pretty major differences over the past couple of years, so needless to say, I was crying my face off while she was giving me all these props. Who knew something as awesome as reconnecting with my sister could come out of this? Silver linings, indeed.

I hate feeling like I need to make everything okay. Even this morning, replying to Phoebe's message, I was trying to make things better, to speak of my love and respect for her, telling her how I'm trying to heal things up so that I can come back to a relationship with her.

And yes, now I am asking myself "WHY?" as well. Why would I want to go back to her if I wouldn't want to date her on my own? I never even really asked myself that question, ridiculous as that sounds. There is so much stuff to get clear on, to sort through, to get in touch with on this journey. I never anticipated it.

I never anticipated how loopy I would get, how far I would project into the future. I won't be doing that again. I was even looking at freakin' real estate! NOT GOOD.

I never anticipated how upset I'd get over something as minor as them snuggling in bed together, even though I've watched them have sex dozens of times.

Me spazzing out (by which I mean crying nonstop) as a way of coping wasn't such a big surprise. I've done that before, and that's something to work on for me in the future (which I'm excited about, oddly). Nor was my anger a surprise. And I guess I'm not overly surprised that once that upset was triggered, it was pretty hard to get out of it. I don't know if that's "normal" or not, but it is for me.

I didn't anticipate this lock in my chest that has kept me from moving forward. I knew it wasn't working anymore, and that I needed to find a new way of being. But wow, this is intense and crazy! I didn't anticipate how seriously I would take things while two other people were casually having fun; or how conflicted I could be between anger/love/upset/wanting to make things better; I never knew I could love someone but need so much space from them at the same time; I never knew how much I would love/hate a triad.

I feel like there's a bunch of concrete poured into my chest.

Owen sent me thirteen text messages today, and they're not very nice. I guess I had it coming.

 

[Anneintherain]

Well, you had a crazy night!

I am sorry Phoebe was upset about what she read here. Other people have found this forum and read posts and been very upset because they don't remember that it's anonymous and nobody here knows who they are. Sometimes after they've calmed down, they realize that the poster didn't actually say anything bad about them, and are able to talk about it and not be so upset that you've posted about your personal stuff.

The truth is, I think in order for polyamory to work best, all that stuff you said here, you need to be able to say to the person you're dating and having the feelings about. I imagine it's harder when there is more than one person involved. You seemed to be trying to act in a way you didn't feel in order to make the others in the triad happy. Maybe next time you might be more vocal, and go slower.

Don't let anybody tell you that you're not polyamorous if you don't do things "X" way. There are many ways to do polyamory.

I am glad to hear you have a sister who repeated a lot of the stuff people were saying here.

I am glad you are still posting on here.

I'll add too that if Owen gets pissed off at you, don't blame yourself. Don't let yourself think you have done anything wrong. I would caution you and Owen not to make any hasty decisions about how you want to proceed, or reactionary ones, like, "OK, GO DATE HER INDEPENDENTLY," until you've had a bit of time to really slow down, process, and think about what has happened, and what it means for the both of you, and what you want your future to look like.

I'd suggest you ask Owen to stop text messaging you and to instead deal with the subject in person at home. You don't have anything coming to you. Hopefully he stops basking in being hurt long enough to realize that and treat you with respect. He should put himself in your position-- if it had been HE who didn't want to date somebody anymore, and think about if HE would want to feel obliged to do it when it was making him uncomfortable, because HE didn't know how to extricate himself from the situation.

 

[CherryBlossomGirl]

Things are way better. Oh wow. So good.

I went back to work for the late afternoon, and I am glad I did. My team needed me and we got everything done.

Then I went for tea with a friend of mine who is super mono, but is also really supportive and has known and loved me me for over a decade.

Then I came home, intending to have really calm, centered and respectful communication, and guess what? IT HAPPENED. Owen's anger disappeared like dust in the wind as we talked and listened to each other. He stopped pointing fingers, and started self-reflecting. I self reflected. We IDed the places that would need work in the future, and reaffirmed our love and commitment to each other. His hurt and anger were gone in about ten minutes, and instead, we had this fantastic, peaceful talk.

I don't know what's going to happen with the XGF. I find it funny that I brought home a book on fancy Scotch for her today. (She loves Scotch.) I got it for her on Friday. Like, yeah, I'm a silly mess, and I screw up my life, but I still love her, even though I'm totally confused and not sure what's going to happen.

I'm blissfully unattached to any one kind of outcome for all of this, and that's the first time I've felt that for weeks. I'm not assuming it's not going to work out, not assuming it's going to. I am just staying clear inside myself, dealing with own shizz, and getting ready for a peaceful night at home.

Good reminders for me-- I can't control others. I can only control myself. Listening quietly and reflectively makes for peace and happiness in a relationship. Taking responsibility for your own role means you can actually do something about it, and the things that get you into your own messes.

Yeah... no knee-jerk reactions, no fear-based moves, no scrambling to try to keep her in or shove her out of my life. Just space. Space to think, grow, learn, unpack the shit storm that got unleashed in the midst of all of this emotion, and head into a better future.

Hoping that I get to the root of all of it with my proposed life coach and counsellors!

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm so glad you had a calm loving conversation and feel more hopeful! Whew. I'm glad you're taking care of yourself with yoga and meditation and counselors, etc.

I love the way you write, btw. It's so cute! I didn't want to say it when you were freaking out.

 

[CherryBlossomGirl]

Hugs to you, Mags. You have been seriously instrumental in me getting my sh!t together and staying sane.

 

[Magdlyn]

That's okay, BP. And BTW, you can say shit and fuck here.

 

[bookbug]

Thanks for everyone's responses. This day is kicking my ass emotionally. I'm pretty much a wreck.

#4 is a little off... I feel like up until she read my posts, she was willing to do the work, talk it out,etc. I think that my saying I wouldn't date her independently, and was too pissed to even really be friends right now (hence needing a total break to get clear) was too much, especially since in independent communication I have been continually expressing a desire to work things out. I think I've pushed way past her comfort zone with my upset and need to process everything. I have been WAY emotional, and WAY overprocessy, It's my go-to when I'm feeling emotionally messed, and that is a big issue for me.

I very much sympathize with the pain you are all experiencing.

I want to make an observation in regard to the above. I am recovering from a disintegrated triad. I was with a married couple. I can certainly understand how your ex-gf could feel blindsided, given what you've written here, versus what you were expressing to her.

In my experience, I would have discussions with my gf, and she would apparently tell me what I wanted to hear, and then go back and tell her husband something 180 degrees different. When he and I got to comparing notes, trying to figure out what was going on, let's just say I felt betrayed and lied to. I'm sure your ex-gf does too. And, like you, my gf viewed her words to me as being protective of my feelings.

I asked her repeatedly to please tell me the actual truth, because it was the ONLY way everything would work.

In our case, the truth was she had changed her mind about wanting the triad, which was another 180-degree switch from encouragement to absolutely not. Okay, yeah, that was majorly disappointing. That said, I would have liked to have known 6 months ago, instead of me continually stressing out, wracking my brain trying to find ways to solve her unhappiness, when deep down, she knew she was never going to be happy in that situation.

I realize no one was intentionally trying to hurt anyone else, just as you were not intentionally trying to hurt Phoebe. But the fact remains that it's cruel to give someone the impression that things are okay, that there is hope, when that's not true. It's not a kindness.

 

[IndieSolo]

Hugs to you, Mags. You have been seriously instrumental in me getting my sh!t together and staying sane.

That's okay, BP. And BTW, you can say shit and fuck here.

Yes, shitpissfuckcuntcocksuckermotherfuckertits!!! We're quite the potty mouths here!

 

[CherryBlossomGirl]

Swear words and sage advice

Well shit! I feel fuckin' better already!

I realize no one was intentionally trying to hurt anyone else, just as you were not intentionally trying to hurt your ex-gf. But the fact remains that it's cruel to give someone the impression that things are okay, that there is hope, when that's not true. It's not a kindness.

I'm sorry to hear you've been having a tuff time too, bookbug. Thanks for your perspective. It was a good one to hear.

I have been in a tuff place in regards to getting clear and working through my feelings. I don't think that the best time for communication is when you're confused and upset. For me, I like gettin' clear, and then talking from them. That way, I won't lead people on a wild goose chase as I navigate my whacko internal emotional world. I'm the kind of person who needs space and time by myself, and with people that I trust, to get perspective. Emotions can be pretty devious little fuckers, and if you listen to your feelings, and not the perspectives of people who know you well (or even the fine folks on this board, who I'm starting to feel like I know a little), you can get yourself into a real snarl of misunderstandings, upset and frothy messy untruths.

Space. Time. Clarity.

If I were clear that I didn't want to be with her, I would definitely break up with her. I gotta get to a place where I've had enough time, space and perspective to make that decision, though. I'm giving it two more weeks without seeing her to get that space.

I never want to use anyone, never want to hurt anyone. I'm gonna get quiet inside of myself, talk a lot with myself, my husband, my counsellor, and then start moving forward from there.

To me, unloading on a board is a different thing than communicating with someone I love. If I came to the any of the same conclusions in the end that have been coming out in the free-for-all emotional barfing that I've done on here (i.e., too pissed to carry forward, wouldn't date her independently, don't want to be friends, whatevs) then I would tell her, but I certainly wouldn't do it as bluntly as I did on here. I want to have courtesy with her, always.

 

[Magdlyn]

Yes, shitpissfuckcuntcocksuckermotherfuckertits!!! We're quite the potty mouths here!

hehe. Love you, Indie!

 

[bookbug]

Well shit! I feel fuckin' better already!

I'm sorry to hear you've been having a tuff time too, bookbug. Thanks for your perspective.

I have been in a tuff place in regards to getting clear and working through my feelings. I don't think that the best time for communication is when you're confused and upset - for me, i like gettin' clear, and then talking from them. That way I won't lead people on a wild goose chase as I navigate my whacko internal emotional world. I'm the kind of person who needs space and time by myself, and with people that I trust to get perspective - emotions can be pretty devious little fuckers, and if you listen to your feelings, and not the perspectives of people who know you well (or even the fine folks on this board who i'm starting to feel like i know a little), you can get yourself into a real snarl of misunderstandings, upset and frothy messy untruths. Space. Time. Clarity.

If i was clear that I didn't want to be with her, I would definitely break up with her. I gotta get to a place where I've had enough time, space and perspective to make that decision, though. I'm giving it two more weeks without seeing her to get that space.

I never want to use anyone, never want to hurt anyone. Gonna get quiet inside of myself, talk a lot with myself, my husband, my counsellor, and then start moving forward from there. To me, unloading on a board is a different thing than communicating with someone that I love. If i came to the any of the same conclusions in the end that have been coming out in the free-for-all emotional barfing that i've done on here (too pissed to carry forward, wouldn't date her independently, don't want to be friends, whatevs) then I would tell her, but I certainly wouldn't do it as bluntly as I did on here. I want to have courtesy with her always.

Yes, I can see that you'd want to sort out your own feelings and thoughts before making any decisions. That's reasonable. And you're right, emotions take a lot longer to sort than logic. Hell, if it were all logical, it would be easy!

Okay, well, you've figured out what you need: time and space. And if you pursue anything in the future, you'll know to ask for (demand) that upfront if/when you start to feel stressed out.

I know you've been through hell, but the thing is you've learned some things about yourself and the process. And since you are able to communicate well with Owen, you two will end up tighter than ever.

One thing about my situation-- we managed not to blow up the friendship, even though the triad failed. I still see her, him, or them once or twice a week. We're building positive memories over the ones that hurt.