Poly Isn't For Me/Tired of Sharing My Wife

[BoringGuy]

I know, sigh.

But 12/13 years... I just had a 10/13 year anniversary with my Spouse (10 married, 13 together) and this type of story of yours is exactly what I wonder about: will I wake up one day and find out they are not the person I thought they were?

I have quite a few friends who are going through this, people who have been together for years, and suddenly their partner becomes this stranger in their life. It can be anything from finding out they never liked your cooking, or your favorite sexual position, but only went along with it to please you, to full-blown domestic violence involving restraining orders and child-custody battles...

But it makes me look at my two partners and go, "Are you next?" (We don't have kids, but it doesn't have to be about kids. I have cats and it's always in the back of my mind that Spouse will get tired of the mess and the allergies and move out because of the cats... At least their other partner has dogs and Spouse is also allergic to dogs, so it isn't like they can just run to their other partner to escape. LOL)

I wonder if my fabulous spouse is going to turn into some kind of monster and beat the shit out of me for no reason... This can happen, it does happen, and if it can happen to other people, it can happen to me.

That's why I write these things on this thread. It has mostly to do with me and not so much to do with the OP's relationship. But getting answers as to what the underlying causes are gives me some hope that maybe maybe my relationship won't end that way.

 

[YouAreHere]

... I just had a 10/13 year anniversary with my Spouse (10 married, 13 together) and this type of story of yours is exactly what I wonder about: will I wake up one day and find out my partner is not the person I thought they were?

BG, would it help to say that in every case where I've personally seen it happen (anecdotal, I know), that it was due to a lack of communication that went on far too long for it to be fixable?

It was that way in my own marriage (17 years married, 22 years together). He wanted me to be something I wasn't, and I buried myself for far too long. We rarely talked. In fact, while I was trying to pick up the pieces of our marriage, and told him that I wanted us to talk, to be friends again, he said, "We never needed to talk before; why do we need to start now?"

Ugh.

Same thing in this case-- a (bad) lack of communication caused this blowup, and now they're picking up the pieces.

If you communicate honestly, if you talk to death, if you don't bury your feelings, well... it's no guarantee it won't happen, but hell - you're in a better spot than I was. You've got that going for you. That, and an acerbic wit.

 

[BoringGuy]

If you communicate honestly, if you talk to death, if you don't bury your feelings, well... it's no guarantee it won't happen, but hell - you're in a better spot than I was. You've got that going for you. That and an acerbic wit.

LOL, "talking to death" isn't exactly good either. I understand what you mean - talk about what's on your mind - but some people talk too much and think that running their mouth constantly means they're "communicating".

 

[FullofLove1052]

Well, happy belated anniversary to you all. I wish you all many more years of success.

It's such a tricky thing when dealing with human emotions and varying personalities. You're right. Sometimes people just wake up and it dawns on them that, "Wait a second. I never liked your perfume/cologne. I never liked your cooking. I never liked your mother. I dislike the color of your hair." You hope that never happens, but when it does, it's like, what the hell is going on? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone having a glass of wine with Rod Serling and insanity is happening around me. That perfectly sums up how I feel right now!

I, too, have seen it happen to others, but I guess I never saw it coming our way. We've seen some of our best friends, who had seemingly happy marriages, wake up one day and decide, "On second thought, I don't want to be married anymore." It's like a mid-life crisis of the head and the heart at the same time, or a split personality that's deciding to pay a visit. I'm just wondering what makes people wake up and have entirely different desires, and what makes them realize that what they've been living with all this time isn't what they truly wanted. Did something happen in a dream that felt like a premonition? It's special.

That's what I'm trying to figure out with Matt. Did he just wake up and realize, "Uh... Yeah. This ain't working, so something needs to be done"? They were getting along just fine until, like I said, mid-end January. His attitude changed and there was a shift. Was there an under-the-table personality transplant? Each step has become even more puzzling than one before. It went from, "We're a triad," to "Poly's not for me," to "I don't want to be part of a poly family," to where we are now, which is, "I don't wish to acknowledge her existence or even take notice of her."

Lol. That's hilarious about the pets. I would hope there would be signs leading up to that, and your respective spouses wouldn't be like, "Omg. That's it. I have to get out of here. I'm so over these cats being here. I just can't take it anymore!"

 

[YouAreHere]

LOL, "talking to death" isn't exactly good either. I understand what you mean - talk about what's on your mind - but some people talk too much and think that running their mouth constantly means they're "communicating".

LOL, too true. Talking AT someone is not the same as talking WITH someone.

 

[FullofLove1052]

I hate to admit this, but when people talk TOO much, I sort of stop listening, and what I hear sounds like the voice on Charlie Brown. I'll say the occasional yeah, right, or mmm-k. I tell people in advance just spit it out and stop trying to take the long way around. Lay out the facts, so we can discuss it before I reach retirement age.

 

[BoringGuy]

That's what I'm trying to figure out with Matt. Did he just wake up and realize, "Uh... Yeah. This ain't working, so something needs to be done"? They were getting along just fine until mid-end January. His attitude changed and there was a shift... It went from, "We're a triad," to "Poly's not for me," to "I don't want to be part of a poly family," to where we are now, which is, "I don't wish to acknowledge her existence or even take notice of her."

Yeah, that's the thing I was fascinated by a couple pages back, where he was all "I invited her to stay for dinner, assuming she would decline, because I was only doing it to be nice," to "Nothing get the message across like the police showing up." Then he was all, "No no, I didn't mean it that way," but it seems like he really did mean it "that way," but didn't want to say the words, so instead says the exact opposite.

How does one exist when the information they are supposed to use to make decisions is inaccurate? It's like that man-woman thing, where the guy asks "What's wrong?" and the woman says "Nothing," and the guy drops the subject, taking "nothing" as face-value and truthful, when the woman really means that something is wrong and wants the guy to ask more questions, because she didn't MEAN "nothing", she just ASSUMED that the guy wouldn't stop asking at "nothing," because persistence shows that he really cares, or whatever. Of course, this is not a "man-woman/woman-man" thing, but I'm guessing that most people reading this have come across the "what's wrong? ...nothing" Q&A at least once in their experience.

"Nothing" means "If you really loved me, you'd prove it by second-guessing everything I say." Feh!

That's hilarious about the pets. I would hope there would be signs leading up to that, and your respective spouses wouldn't be like, "Omg. That's it. I have to get out of here. I'm so over these cats being here. I just can't take it anymore!"

On the flip-side of that, my Other Partner is very much a cat person, but doesn't like living with other people.

 

[BoringGuy]

I hate to admit this, but when people talk TOO much, I sort of stop listening, and what I hear sounds like the voice on Charlie Brown. I'll say the occasional yeah, right, or mmm-k. I tell people in advance just spit it out and stop trying to take the long way around. Lay out the facts, so we can discuss it before I reach retirement age.

With my Spouse, it's more like Homer Simpson, when Marge is telling him something "important," and he's got this glazed expression on his face like, "Mmm... Donuts."

 

[FullofLove1052]

I'm soooo bad about saying, "No, nothing's wrong. I'm fine!" Then, I'll wake him up at 3 in the morning, so we can talk about what "wasn't" wrong 12 hours ago.

I think the same is happening now, only it's months later, and it's like that original yes, no, I'm fine, or extension of an invite to dinner, really meant no or yes, but I wanted you to pick up on that or read between the lines. Subliminal messages. I think we'd have better luck with Morse code.

And people say women are complicated! Ha.

 

[SNeacail]

I think we'd have better luck with Morse code. And people say women are complicated! Ha.

HA! Yep, Morse code would be much easier.

In my house, I was the one being tuned out, so when we finally entered counseling, he was "shocked" at some of the things I had to say. *palm to forehead* I'd only been telling him the same stuff for 5+ years!

Keep up the counseling. Go often. It can make a world of difference.

 

[BoringGuy]

I'm soooo bad about saying, "No, nothing's wrong. I'm fine!" Then, I'll wake him up at 3 in the morning, so we can talk about what "wasn't" wrong 12 hours ago.

I think the same is happening now, only it's months later, and it's like that original yes, no, I'm fine, or extension of an invite to dinner, really meant no or yes, but I wanted you to pick up on that, or read between the lines. Subliminal messages. I think we'd have better luck with Morse code. And people say women are complicated! Ha.

People should not use the word "fine" for so many different things. I think it originally meant (in addition to "the opposite of coarse", as with ground coffee beans) that things are neither extremely well nor are they extremely unwell. But now it gets used as kind of a go-to word for when someone wants to shut down a question without really answering.

For example, in the most benign iteration I can think of as an example is when you see someone in the hallway at work and go, "How are you?" and they say "Fine," meaning, "I acknowledge that you asked me how I was. You don't expect me to tell you how I really am, do you?" And it's understood between both parties that this is exactly what "fine" means, and they don't get in trouble about it, because they're not emotionally invested to a significant degree.

(I'm operating with the set-theory that everything is a "relationship," and if you're asking "How are you?" then you are emotionally involved with them to some degree, however casual or ephemeral that involvement may be).

But, when it's a relationship that affects your life on multiple levels on an everyday, long-term basis (whatever those things mean to a particular person), asking them "How are you?" or "Is everything ok?" or "Is there something wrong?" deserves more than just, "I'm fine." Even if you ARE really "fine," according to the definition I gave above (because I own the definition of the word "fine," and you already knew that, right?), I think it's healthy and partnerly to ask the other person what it was that made them wonder.

Story time: not too long after Spouse (I keep typing "Soupse") starting seeing their Other, they started becoming withdrawn. When I asked what was the matter, and they said "It isn't you. My Other has been asking me the same thing," I let it go. But when it didn't get better, I checked back again, and it was something having to do with work.

I take these things at face value because I trust them, but I'm not sure "fine" would be enough. No, I'm sure "fine" wouldn't be enough. Even if you don't know what's bugging you, you're better off saying "Yes, I'm preoccupied with something right now. I need to think about it more before I talk about it."

This seems like stuff you learn in therapy, but I never had therapy (except briefly when I was in high school, but I was forced to go, I didn't want to go). I figured it out by myself.

My mother had a tendency to say things to me like "You're not supposed to know this, but you have to know this" (or do this, etc.), and that mindset kind of leaked into other areas, such as saying what you really think instead of what you think other people will be ok with. (This makes a lot of people on the internet dislike me, but in real life it has been labeled "charisma," and "you-should-try-doing-stand-up-comedy," which I have tried, and don't suck at, but I can't keep up the energy required to make a "thing" out of it.)

When you say you're "fine," but you really mean "leave me alone," you send a message that messes with a person's perception of reality. As a doctor, you must know a little about how the brain struggles to make sense of sensory input any way it can. For example, when prisoners were brought to Auschwitz, their brains at first couldn't make sense of it all, and they rationalized, "This can't possibly be what it looks like." (I've read lots of stories from Holocaust survivors.) Which is a way that the mind PROTECTS ITSELF from bad things. If you tell someone you're "Fine, really, nothing's wrong," and something IS wrong, you're teaching that person to interpret your demeanor a certain way:

"If you loved me, you'd know how I feel."

"If you loved me, you'd tell me how you feel."

I hope that you can not only sort this thing out intellectually so that you can accomplish "personal growth" and all the New-Agey-indigo-crystal crap, but also that you actually are able to apply your new insights to your life in a practical way; that you not just come to appreciate what makes you all tick, but to be able to modify the way those things affect your life in ways that you would prefer they don't.

I'm not sure I'm being clear. It's like, when someone declares that they "are" a certain way because of their upbringing, and make it seem like they have no other choice. Yes, you do have a choice. You don't have to be a doctor just because your dad was one. Oops, that was not the way I meant it. Cab driver! You don't have to be a cab driver just because your father was one.

Or, "My father was an abusive alcoholic. That's why I'm in a co-dependent relationship. I guess we better close the shop, sell the farm, and hit the road. Nothing to see here, move along."

Well, that was a lot longer than I intended!

 

[FullofLove1052]

Right! For me, it's almost a programmed response. "It's nothing. I'm fine. Can we talk about something else?" They know "fine" is the keyword that truly means nothing is fine. Shut-down mode happens immediately, and it's a calming mechanism. They understand that in my lingo that means, "Now is not the time, but when she wants to talk about about it, I'll be ready." Even at 3 in the morning. I have a habit of isolating myself when something ticks me off. When I emerge, I just offer up information without questions being posed. They're usually burning questions, so I take out the guess work. I had to isolate myself yesterday and meditate. After I finished, I was able to express what was wrong.

Matt just says, "Later," and later could mean any time. It's never clear. It's like it doesn't bother him immediately, or even in that moment, but after he thinks about it for awhile, it hits him. It's like when somebody says something that takes you aback, and it's just incredulous. You look at them squarely, and it doesn't register right off the bat. After it has set in and processed, then you respond. That's my hubby.

 

[BoringGuy]

My Other Partner says "It's not you, it's me," and that means exactly what it says when they say it. But to many people, "It's not you, it's me" means "There's something about you that I can't stand, but it isn't your fault that I can't stand it."

 

[CherryBlossomGirl]

The Right to be Imperfect, The Right to Change

Here's my two cents. Some communication can be hard. Really hard. There are so many things that factor into our ability to feel strong and brave about communicating our feelings, and so many little things that can skew our perspectives to make it even harder to communicate. Family patterns, insecurities, misguided attempts to be brave, etc., etc., etc. It always makes me shake my head when I see such blatant judgements and projections. To me, this forum is for sharing, growing and learning, not condemning people for their shortcomings as human beings!

I think it's pretty harsh to blame Matt for not being able to communicate his feelings to Si. None of us know either of these people, and projecting our own experiences all over him has made him leave his own thread and stop sharing his experience. I feel badly about that.

To me, responsibility falls on EVERYONE, not just Matt. It falls on Si for not ever asking, "Do you two need time alone?" Or checking in to see what was happening for Matt-- "How are you feeling about us these days? Is there anything that you need from me?" Where is her self development - time with friends, pursuing interests and hobby, time with herself, etc.? Why is a full grown adult always at someone else's house and not developing a life of their own too?

FullofLove knew that her husband was struggling, but didn't sit Si down and say, "I'm really feeling that Matt needs some time to connect with me right now, and I'd like to start creating some space for that to happen at our home. How can we create some nights for just him and our children to be together without it making you feel excluded?"

It all seems to have been shifted to Matt's responsibility. He was the one with issues, so it's all his responsibility? In a respectful partnership, I would think not! I would think that all parties should be checking in with each other, giving each other space and time to pursue other interests and relationships, and safe space to express their feelings.

So I call bullshit on pointing the finger at Matt. It frustrates me to no end when people's judgements end up silencing a member on this forum. You want to preach about respect and good communication? Then please be sure that you're giving the people that you're telling that to the same respect and communication skills you're talking about.

 

[BoringGuy]

So I call bullshit on pointing the finger at Matt. It frustrates me to no end when people's judgements end up silencing a member on this forum; you want to preach about respect and good communication? Then please be sure that you're giving the people that you're telling that to the same respect and communication skills you're talking about.

I call bullshit on you calling bullshit.

Would you feel better (be less frustrated) if instead of "blaming people for their feelings" we said "holding people accountable for their actions" (or "communicating the opposite of what they're feeling") instead? Because that is essentially what is going on here.

 

[Livingmybestlife]

Baggage patrol, you said it better then me. This is my point exactly. No one person can create this situation.

 

[Matt]

This thread has been busy.

Look... I take responsibility for not saying anything and keeping everything inside. I'm human. I have flaws. Every day is a lesson. I'm not apologizing for anything I said to Si. I said it. I meant it. It came from the heart. It's not my fault that it was taken wrong or if she got offended. That's her problem. Not my problem. She doesn't want to attend therapy with us? Cool. I'm not losing any sleep.

I have no desire to be around my wife's girlfriend. I'm not even calling her my metamour. Why should I? She's a person, but I am opting not to acknowledge her beyond a professional scope. Out of sight out of mind. I have to work with her, and I am paid to do a job, so the job will get done. I don't have to see her after hours or say anything to her. That's what it is.

Would I prefer if she weren't at our house or around our children? Yeah, you can say that. On a serious note, shit got real the other day, but I bet my voice was heard.

We'll see how it plays out. Our lives don't have to cross any more than necessary, which is on the clock. She may be dating my wife, but I don't have to deal with her or see her more than necessary. I'll keep you guys posted and check in.

 

[CherryBlossomGirl]

Hey look! It's the guy who started the thread!

I am so glad that you posted, Matt. Growing, learning, and finding out what I need in life is a process I'm engaged in on a daily basis, too. I think it takes strength to speak up and share what you feel, and what other people do with that is not your responsibility. Taking space and time is a good thing, and it sounds like you're working hard to keep things professional at work.

BoringGuy: Judgements and aggressive language seem counterintuitive to encouraging a forum member to find their voice and express their needs to a partner. Are you trying to encourage Matt to get closer to his own truth, or your truth? Are you opening the doors of communication or closing them by holding a stranger "accountable" to the limited perspective that you have on their life situation? Do you feel that it's empowering for others to cast judgement on their ways of being? Human relationships are incredibly complex, as are human emotions. We're all just doing our best, and for me, supporting observations go a lot further than condemnations or judgements.

 

[FullofLove1052]

Thank you! We've all taken responsiblity for our eff ups. It's too late to change anything. Matt has an IDGAF attitude.

I guess the want to be around us was strong. We know we have crazy schedules. We were doing a lot of traveling for business reasons. At one point, I was in Australia. Matt was in London. Si was in Malaysia. Insane. It's normal to miss people. I think that's how she ended up so involved in our marriage recently. Nothing wrong with wanting to be around people you care about, but there's s line. The relationships became one big mess. There was no division. All of the relationships had a different style and approach.

Matt and I talk every day. If something's wrong, he's the first to pick up on it. I miss him even if he has just left. With Si, it isn't like that. We don't have that connection that defies all logic.

With Si, there's something different. She's more understanding because we're both females. It's in her nature to be maternal and to have certain qualities. We can go for days without talking, but it works, because when we do, it's like there was no break.

IDK about Matt and Si's styles. The relationships turned into one and the results were catastrophic. As he's been saying, "I married you. Not her, too." We took vows. A mess is what was created.

 

[Magdlyn]

Matt has an IDGAF attitude.

Oh,"I don't give a fuck." I had to think about that one.

I guess the want to be around us was strong... I think that's how she ended up so involved in our marriage recently.

Involved in "your" (Matt's and FoL's) marriage? Well, now. Isn't Si practically married to you, FoL? I mean, 12 years is a long term relationship! Where have your boundaries been all these years? Was something new spelt out when kids came along? When Matt and Si decided they wanted to have sex and date, maybe have a kid of their own?

Nothing wrong with wanting to be around people you care about, but there's s line.

No one seems to now where the line is. You and Matt have been talking about putting other's needs first, you've talked about being a "Christian." Well, do you put Si's needs first, making her think you really care about her needs, when all it is, is a total facade masking resentment? Gosh.

And now one or both of you are seeing her as "too involved in the (almighty M/F het) marriage" and somewhat disposable. And you say you're now putting the marriage (if not the F/F relationship) ahead of the kids' needs as well. A 3 year old and an infant. Might need a 2nd nanny...

With Si, there's something different. She's more understanding ...

Is she understanding now, that Matt's compersion was nothing but passive aggressiveness and being secretly aggrieved and resentful? How is she supposed to live her life now.

The relationships turned into one and the results were catastrophic. As he's been saying, "I married YOU. Not her, too." We took vows. A mess is what was created.

Yes. He never developed compersion. He now thinks being mono is "right" and you, FoL, are wrong, perhaps sick, and Si is some kind of interloper, despite having been accepted as your lover for 12 years. Ach.

We are all going to filter this through our own past experiences. My ex husband was raised Christian, to put Christ first, others 2nd and his own needs last. He always did and does this, but always resents it. He does it because of brainwashing, a desperate need to feel liked, and not out of sincere caring.

Here, we talk about being one's own primary. Take care of yourself first, know your needs, your limits and MAKE THEM KNOWN to your loved ones. Don't hide them thinking that makes you all honorable and full of caritas. It just makes you untrustworthy and a double crosser.