As much as I love her, she is asking too much!

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Eth76

New member
Hi, I'm a new member, but long-term lurker of this forum, and I really wanted to run something past you all in the hope that you could give me your opinions, advice, or criticisms. And also for me to just get things off of my chest a little.

My wife & I met each other when we were 21, fell in love, travelled for a few years, and then got married at 24. First few years were great, no real responsibilities. I had a good job, we had a great group of friends, had a lot of fun, and a good lifestyle.

I soon had the want of starting my own business, but the struggle to get it up and running, and then to initially keep it as an ongoing concern, meant long hours, and a real shortage of money for a few years. This was when the struggle of day to day life started to really get to my wife. It was made worse by a miscarriage which devastated us both. She took a long time to get over it. I think that I did the best I could to really help her. She disagreed.

Things got better, money troubles started to lessen as my business started to take off a little, and we started getting out more, and seeing our old friends again. We had flirted a little with the local fetish scene before, and through the encouragement of a mutual friend, we got back into it. It was there that she met Alex, with whom she had an affair.
 
I knew something was up. She became distant and irritable towards me, and would get annoyed when I showed her affection, but then feel guilty and go overboard in trying to make it up to me. After things came to a head, she told me that she thought that our relationship had gone stale, and that she wanted us to open our marriage up.

I was not that keen on the idea, though. As a couple in the scene we were involved in, we had played with others, but always together, never as individuals. She said she was unhappy though, so in the end, I agreed.

She came up with this idea because of the guilt she was feeling about her affair with Alex. She did not have the courage to tell me about it, but felt really bad about cheating on me behind my back. She did not want to lose what she now had with him though, so suggesting that we have an open relationship was a perfect way out for her. She relieved her guilt, did not have to own up to the cheating, and still got to see Alex! She told me she had met someone about a month later, I did not find out that she had actually been seeing him for at least 8 months until a few years later. By doing what she did, it also made it a whole lot easier for her to see more of him. Clever, really.
 
It did work, though. It gave our marriage a boost. She continued to see more and more of Alex, and I had my own thing as well. It was good, no doubt about it!

The difference between my thing and hers was that mine was just sexual. What she had with Alex may have been born out of lust, but it soon became apparent to me that she loved him, and he loved her, and she admitted as much to me when she was ready to make their relationship more serious. This made me jealous at first, but she had a way of drawing me closer to her, and making me feel more secure in her own love for me, while at the same time giving as much time to her relationship with Alex as they needed. She was very good at it. She also made it a huge turn-on for us both!

Alex and I were eventually introduced to each other, and hit it off straight away. We became, and still are good friends. He started to spend more and more time at ours, and her at his, until it became a hassle for him to go back to his place at night, or for her to come home. So we agreed it would be better for us to find a place that was more suitable for the three of us. It was not long before we were all under one roof.

All of us were very happy with this. It really did work very well. She would spend one night with me, and the next with Alex. We would often all be in the same bed together. She was never happier.

As to be expected, things started to change over time. She told me that she wanted space to herself. So she decided to spend more time in her own room. In truth, this was just a way for her to spend more time with Alex, without actually having to tell me that that was what she wanted. When she made out that she was in her own room, she was actually in his. We all knew this, but it was allowed to go unsaid.

It did not bother me. I accepted that she had a stronger sexual connection with him, and of course it also allowed me to see who I wanted, when I wanted, too. I took full advantage of that. Also, my wife* still spent plenty of time in my room, and we still had a very strong connection.

Her becoming pregnant was a bolt out of the blue.
 
I really wanted to run something past you all in the hope that you could give me your opinions, advice, or criticisms! And also for me to just get things off of my chest a little.
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I hope you feel better for getting that all out there.

My opinions or comments are mostly in the land of:

Why the unwillingness to be honest about her growing feelings for Alex?
Why enter into breaking promises to her spouse?
Could knowing any of that help in moving it forward to a healthy space?
What do you even want for yourself and your next healthy space?
At this point in time, what are your wants, needs, and limits?

FROM HER:

I assume you would like her to at least own up to her lying/cheating approach to this, and dinging your trust, and do some trust repair.​
Do you want to stay together, or is this irreparable?​


FROM HIM:

Do you want an apology if he was aware he was enabling her to cheat? (If she lied to him to... what then?)​

FROM YOURSELF:

What you you want from yourself in this situation?​
To feel what?​
How does the behavior you choose help you create and feel those emotions that you want to feel?​

I see that you could have some work ahead in filling out the rest of your wants, needs, and limits so you can begin to articulate them to yourself. Gotta do that before trying to articulate what your needs might be to others.

Galagirl
 
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@galagirl. Thanks for your post. My thread does not make sense at the moment. I have posted more, but it has to be viewed by a mod before it can be posted! Maybe this is because I'm a new member?

When my next post appears, I'll get the rest off of my chest.

Thanks
 
I just hope you are doing all right under the circumstances. Cheating affair recovery is not fun, but it can be done if all parties want it.

GG
 
She said that the pregnancy was not planned, and she could not be sure who the father was. Sometimes you just get a strong feeling about something, and I believed it was mine. I hoped that it was. I wanted it so bad that I convinced myself that I was his dad, even when Harry was born. I really can't tell you why I thought this way. It was not rational.

We were rational enough to know that we had to tell our parents about the nature of our poly relationship now. It did not go down well with my parents, or hers. To have to tell my mother and father that they may or may not be grandparents was not easy. To describe my dad's reaction as disgusted would not be an over exaggeration. It was not easy!

I'd set myself up for a fall, and I fell heavy. I was not the father. When we found out, it was devastating for me. I was very upset, incredibly emotional, and I just wanted to escape the whole thing. She knew how much I was hurting, and she told me that she would one day want another child. She promised that she would make sure that I would be the father.
 
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They say a child brings a couple closer together. In their case, that was very much true. To see the three of them together was very hard for me. I was very unhappy, but I did not show it. I did not want to spoil their happiness, so I just made myself as absent as I could.

I was absent from our marriage for two years. Twice I left, and twice she begged me to come back. Why? I was very unsure about my role within my own life, but could not bring myself not to go back when she asked. I was a mess.
 
When I was at my lowest ebb, she made a huge effort to reconnect with me and drew me closer to her, and slowly, we did. It was good again, but not the same, and it never really has been.

I started to build a strong bond with Harry. She went back to work, and because I am my own boss, I was able to help out with the child because I have a lot more free time than they do.

Harry is four now. He is a beautiful loving boy, and a real personality. I love him very much, and we are very tight. I do as much for him in his day to day life as anyone does, and my wife and Alex have done everything they can to include me in every aspect of his life. Harry knows who his dad is though, and as he gets older, what is he going to think I am?
 
The hardest part of this for me is that my wife has recently told me that she now intends to have another child, and that THEY have decided that it would be better for Alex to be the father again. They have told me that THEY have been agonising over this for months, but THEY have now made the decision that they want Harry to have a brother or sister, and not a half brother or sister.

I reminded her of the promise that she made me, and she has told me how sorry she is, and how she knows how much this will hurt me, and yet...

I don't think she does know just how much this kills me. The sense of rejection and upset that I feel is hard to describe. I very much wanted to be a father. I very much wanted to have a child with her.

I have left, and again she is begging me to go back. Again she is telling me how much she loves me. Why, what for?
 
I am 36 now, we have been together for 15 years, and married for twelve, and even when I try, I cannot see a future for us. It gets me down. When I think of a fresh start somewhere new, without her, I feel like a weight will be lifted from my shoulders, and I get a huge sense of relief. At the same time, I am still so in love with her. I miss her very much, and I miss the kid. I am in two minds as to what I will do.

I don't know!
 
:eek:

My goodness! That's a lot!

I have left, and again she is begging me to go back. Again she is telling me how much she loves me. Why, what for?
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Your answer could be something like...

"That's appreciated -- thank you. I am glad you love me. I love you too. But it is time to accept that the romance here is over so we no longer share consummate love. This is a companionate love -- friend love now. ​
​
I am better in the role of "close family friend" for you and Alex, and "uncle" or "godfather" for the child/ren. Those I am willing to be still, if you allow me. (Only say that bit if you really are willing.) ​
​
But I am not returning to this polyship as "husband." I need a divorce because I cannot see a romantic future for us, where my wants, needs, and limits are met. When I think of a fresh romance start somewhere new, without you in the role of my wife, I feel like a weight will be lifted from my shoulders, and I get a huge sense of relief. I need to be free to pursue that romantic happiness elsewhere. My wants, needs, and limits for romance are not met here. Let's accept it. ​
​
You are planning to have a child by Alex again, so this husband role ought to be his. He is the father. He ought to be the recognized legal spouse with the kids on his insurance, taxes, etc. Give him and you the opportunity to enjoy consummate love in a recognized legal marriage with the benefits a legal marriage can bring you and the child/ren. That's nothing to sneeze at. ​
​
Let's talk honestly and align ourselves to the roles we actually play here, rather than carry on all awry like this. ​
​
The grandparents are already upset. It's causing me pain. It cannot be good for Harry to see the adults in his world all a twitter. Let's correct this now while he is young and can adapt more easily. Let's give ALL of us a chance to find the new happy medium shape here for this family, where ALL can exist harmoniously and ALL people's wants, needs, and limits are being honored."​

Could that help?

You got this far by sweeping stuff under the rug so long it's like a huge elephant now. Break it down, sort it out, and clean house. Start anew as you intend to proceed from here on out. It is not just you adults here anymore. There is a child watching your every move. What do you want to model for Harry about relationships?
  • Honesty? Being forthright? Solving problems in a sane way?
  • Or groom him to be easy pickings for abusive partners down the road, because he learned how to be from avoiders who let it slide, or who put up with things silently and disregarded their own well-being?

I know that can sound harsh, and I do not intend for it to. But this is IMPORTANT. It may not feel URGENT because Harry is so small, but it is important to the child's future adult well-being to have good interpersonal skills, and learn them at home so he does not suffer these kinds of things that you have had to suffer before you learned your skills.

I've been dealing with 2 women friends who left abusive husbands. Both of them did not have the skills to spot them for creepies til it was much too late. Then it became all the harder to leave safely and without retaliation from the abuser -- domestic violence, death threats and murder is sadly not unheard of when leaving. The leaving time is a dangerous time. The best is to be able to spot the creep, and NOT get mixed up with creeps to begin with. Do not groom the children to be easy pickings later, I urge you. :( Balance trust with caution.

It sounds like you want to be free of this marriage. So love her and end it, and keep on loving her as your friend and ex. Perhaps be a godparent to the kid/s. Sometimes the most loving thing one can do is to be FIRM of purpose. Give the gift of a hard limit. This is DONE. Time to move on to a new shape.

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one. Love hard. Play well.

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl, what my wife and I have is more than compassionate friendly love, although at times I have questioned that. We were still being intimate with each other before I left, although Alex has been the dominant sexual partner for some time. I believe that she does love me though. Why else would she be crying down the phone, asking me to go back? She could easily just be with Alex. There is nothing to prevent it, but she says that she does not want that.

I believe she loves us both, but him more than me. She has no problem with me seeing others, but she would have a huge problem if he did the same. The one time he did, she was distraught!

I do love her, but I need to let her go now, not just for me, but for them, as you suggest. Tough love! I think that she can cope without my love, but not without his. This thing with her wanting another child by him, and breaking her promise to have one by me has brought the situation to a head. We can't go forward because of it.

Time to let go!
 
Eth76 said:
I do love her, but I need to let her go now, not just for me, but for them as you suggest. Tough love! I think that she can cope without my love, but not without his. This thing with her wanting another child by him, and breaking her promise to have one by me has brought the situation to a head. We can't go forward because of it.

Time to let go!
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I agree. While her words say one thing, her actions are telling you something very different.
 
Yup. Time to let go. You meet your own wants, needs, and limits. Put your own oxygen mask on first. End some of those bonds. Stop being lovers, stop being married. If you still want to participate in this family like a family friend/uncle person, keep your conduct in the sibling/friend bucket so you can detach from each other romantically more cleanly. You need to be free to find new romance. Simplify life for everyone. Don't be sleeping with your sister (metaphorically).

You could give her the gift of a limit reached. You end it, because she doesn't have the strength to.

She will feel sad. So what? She's already sad. You could stop getting distracted by her want to be together (which can no longer be, because your limit is reached) and listen to her need to be free of suffering.

Suffering will end when she's completed the journey though the stages of grief. Don't come back to take on roles that you know do not fit you anymore just because she asks you to, when she's in the denial/bargaining stage, and you feel uncomfortable watching her process through the stages of grief. You are not comfortable now. So pick the path that leads to your improved wellness in the long run.

Giving false hope, just to come back to her again and have to take another running jump through the stages of grief prolongs her suffering through the grieving time, because she never gets to finish. Why prolong your suffering? That's not taking care of yourself.

If you do not know what to say in a stage she happens to be in, say nothing but, "I'm sorry. I'm grieving too. I see you grieving. The limit has been reached. It is what it is. It's nobody's fault that grief process just feels... unfun."

Give it time, and you will all make it through. If you keep going back to square one, you'll keep walking in circles.

Hang in there,
GG
 
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Leave. It would be one thing if she truly wanted a family with you, and was willing to prove it by keeping her promise. What on earth is wrong with Alex having a half-sibling? Nothing at all, except that they're more concerned about building their bond, and have been from the beginning, than with being even a little fair to you.

She has lied to you over and over and over, both of them have, and now they have, together, without your input, made a decision that will have major hurtful consequences to you. You deserve better than this. If they won't respect you, then it's up to you to respect yourself to walk away, or else you will become bitter over time, and poison your own life as well as theirs. You can find love with someone new. So many others who have left a long-term relationship have. You're going to be okay.

I'm so sorry. :confused:
 
Eth76 said:
I started to build a strong bond with Harry . . . He is four now, he is a beautiful loving boy, and a real personality. I love him very much, and we are very tight. I do as much for him in his day to day life as anyone does, and my wife and Alex have done everything they can to include me in every aspect of his life. Harry knows who his dad is though, and as he gets older, what is he going to think I am?
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Eth76 said:
I am still so in love with her. I miss her very much. I miss the kid.
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You are his second dad, that's all. You are already a dad, that's why you miss him. And he surely misses you.

I think it is quite unfortunate that your wife and her lover have this notion of not wanting a "half" sibling. To a child, a new brother or sister will just be a brother or sister. They would only look at them as "half" anything if the parents tell them to. And it is a pretty shitty thing to do to a family, making a full sibling more important than a half. They need to get over themselves.

You and he are both fathers, one by biology and the other by love and commitment. If I were you, I would go back to your, wife and both of you try to get her pregnant, and everyone love all the children equally, and stand by each other in unity as co-parents of all the children together, no matter whose sperm fertilized the egg. The more important thing is love.

You should PM LovingRadiance or read her posts about her family dynamics. She has a husband and a boyfriend and children from each. They all parent together and it works.
 
Eth,

How long have you been married?
How long have you been open?
What would be your ideal relationship construct be, regardless of any of these specific players?
What's your vision of perfect?
Do you feel like you've had to "settle" over and over to be in this?
 
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dingedheart said:
How long have you been married? How long have you been open? What would be your ideal relationship construct be, regardless of any of these specific players? What's your vision of perfect? Do you feel like you've had to "settle: over and over to be in this?
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We have been together for 15 years, married for 12, and we have been open for six.

I think that we have done really well for the most part. I do love her, so my ideal relationship is what I've had. This baby thing was thrown a real spanner into the works though, and has made me realise that you need to know when to let a good thing go.

Have I had to settle over and over? Well, she is the one that had the affair; she is the one that wanted to open things up; she is the one that fell in love with someone else; she is the one that initially pushed me away and allowed him to be her main lover; she is the one that had his child, although that was not deliberate. However, I'm not gonna pretend that I've been some kind of victim in all this. That would just be a whole bunch of bullshit. I've had a ball, a great time, and I was able to do that because she was the one that did all of the above. There was no bitterness until now.

Alex is more reliable with his time. He is at her beck and call. In truth, I'm not, and never was. I have always done my own thing, had my own friends, and social life, and done pretty much as I pleased. I never once cheated on her, though. I never touched another woman without her being present. When she said she wanted to open things up, it would be fair to say that I really went for it, and as I said, I've had a grand time. I never loved anyone but her, though.
 
Affairs suck. I did it. I learned the lesson, and I don't approve. But once it is put in "forgiven" drawer, it's off the list of topics to continue to mull over.

I cringe over the lack of prioritizing the child in your story.

I have a child from prior to my marriage, a child with my husband, and a child with my partner (who was the man I had the affair with). We all live together. The kids come first. Yes, it works. They are now 21, 13, and 5. We also co-grandparent Little P, who is 2, and are looking forward to his baby brother, who is in the oven.

I love both my husband and my partner. I got to poly by way of some shitty choices.

If you want to ask me anything, feel free. I am an open book.
 
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