He flips out when we try to be alone together

[AnnabelMore]

"My husband calls my bf a mutt, and starts ordering him around, like he's beneath him."

Wait, what?? A mutt? Like, a dog? Or is it a reference to being of mixed race?

Is this puppy-play/race-play/humiliation-play/whatever-it-is a consensual kinky thing? Is your bf into it too? If not, between this, and the emotional abuse (being randomly yelled at), I'm beginning to get really concerned for your bf's emotional safety in this relationship.

 

[KerrBear]

"My husband calls my bf a mutt, and starts ordering him around, like he's beneath him."

Wait, what?? A mutt? Like, a dog? Or is it a reference to being of mixed race? Is this puppy-play/race-play/humiliation-play/whatever-it-is a consensual kinky thing, is your bf into it too? If not, between this and the emotional abuse (being randomly yelled at), I'm beginning to get really concerned for your bf's emotional safety in this relationship.

We are into puppy/kitty play. My bf introduced it to me/us, and we've been experimenting with it. The mutt gig is mostly for me, though. My husband calls him "Mutt" at work sometimes, but it's mostly when they are just messing around. In the bedroom, it's also for play, but my bf sometimes doesn't like it. My husband is very dominant naturally, and my bf is more in-between, and because of the dynamics (my husband is the boss because he's letting me fuck his wife) and feelings he has, he doesn't voice himself to my husband. However, he does with me.

For example, when I was on top and making love to my bf, my husband was watching and jacking off. He came over and came on me. Then he made sure to sprinkle some cum on my bf. It pissed my bf off, and turned him off really bad. He still is mad about it. My husband practically told him that was payback for taking his wife out to dinner and fucking her.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Woah woah woah! Does your husband understand that he's doing things sexually to your bf that your bf doesn't want, but that he feels coerced to accept these unwanted sexual activities (including getting ejaculated on and being verbally humiliated, which are not at all un-serious forms of activity) because of his financial dependence on your husband? I mean, this may not be "rape," in the sense that your husband isn't fucking him, but "coerced, unwanted sexual activity" is WAY WAY WAY too close for comfort! I am waving the largest red flag I can find right now and begging you both to stop creating such an unethical situation!!!

Please be clear-- I am the most pro-kink person you will ever meet. It's not about that.

Would you be letting this continue if your husband were coercing a female co-worker into types of sex she didn't want?? Where is your personal responsibility in standing up and saying, "You can't treat anyone this way without their consent, especially not someone I love"??

I'm very upset right now.

 

[KerrBear]

Woah woah woah! Does your husband understand that he's doing things sexually to your bf that your bf doesn't want, but that he feels coerced to accept these unwanted sexual activities (including getting ejaculated on and being verbally humiliated, which are not at all un-serious forms of activity) because of his financial dependence on your husband? I mean, this may not be "rape," in the sense that your husband isn't fucking him, but "coerced, unwanted sexual activity" is WAY WAY WAY too close for comfort! I am waving the largest red flag I can find right now and begging you both to stop creating such an unethical situation!!!

Please be clear-- I am the most pro-kink person you will ever meet. It's not about that.

Would you be letting this continue if your husband were coercing a female co-worker into types of sex she didn't want?? Where is your personal responsibility in standing up and saying, "You can't treat anyone this way without their consent, especially not someone I love"??

He's not his employer, just a manager. He doesn't have the right to fire him or anything. It's just that he gets to tell him what to do. My husband would never go and get him fired.

Also, I did stand up and tell him that wasn't cool. Why do you think I'm bringing it up now? My bf won't because he is "used to being mistreated."

This is a complex thing. I don't think my husband thinks there is anything wrong with it. My bf doesn't voice up, but I have on several occasions, and my husband gets upset and circles around about how horrible he has it because I'm not spending enough weekends with him, and how he feels he can't provide for me financially. It's talking in circles with him.

Trust me, I'm NOT okay with my husband being mean to my bf, but I'm also wanting to make sure my husband is not feeling slighted either. I don't know how to manage this because I've never done this before. It's why I'm here. . .

How am I creating an unethical situation? Every time my bf has come over, everyone has been happy. Then my bf leaves and he texts me all the things my husband did wrong. I then have to talk about it with my husband, which is difficult, because I'm not the one feeling those feelings, my bf is. So I think this should be talked about as a whole. But my bf won't bring it up by himself. What am I supposed to do to make this better?

 

[WhatHappened]

I would strongly suggest you take a step back from all of this.

Your husband is clearly unhappy with you having a boyfriend. Not a good situation for him.

Your boyfriend is clearly feeling some form of pressure to do things sexually he is not happy with. Not a good situation for him.

You are having rules changed on you and being yelled at. Not a good situation for you.

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but I see a lot of you blaming your husband, and excusing everything you've done to contribute to this situation. He asks for a weekend alone. You promptly make plans with your boyfriend, and explain that your husband should have been more clear about which weekend he wanted.

You keep talking about how you 'need' time with your boyfriend, and 'need' to be with him. No, actually, you don't. We've all survived massive crushes where, for various reasons, we couldn't be with the one we wanted... and we're still alive to tell the tale. You absolutely can stop seeing bf. You absolutely do not need anything in particular with him. You want it very badly. Badly enough that it looks like it's causing a lot of stress in your marriage that apparently you're willing to keep causing. But you don't need it.

BTW, the only reason I brought up "controlling" is because we live in a world where people often accuse someone else of being "controlling" for things like, oh, not liking their wife sleeping with other men. I personally don't find that controlling. I find it perfectly acceptable to want a monogamous marriage.

As someone else said, your husband's behavior is not exactly admirable in many instances, either. I don't know employment law, but I would think your boyfriend feeling any coercion in this sort of thing, from his boss, could put your husband on dangerous ground. This is a terrible situation, work-wise.

And on top of it, did I read in your other thread that you think it would be "fun" to have babies with your boyfriend? Sorry if I got the wrong word. But babies and children are serious business. Please don't go bringing more children into this situation until there's some major work done by all three parties and there's PEACE all around with the situation. There clearly isn't right now, from any of you.

 

[KerrBear]

My husband and I spent most the evening out alone, without the kids. We had a nice supper out and then spent the majority of the evening just talking about all kinds of things.

I went through and let him read all my posts I've put on here. He didn't like reading most of them, or the replies. He said it wasn't fun to read them. Wanted me to add parts here and there, so I did.

I did mention that I thought how he texted my bf to stop texting me for the evening while we were out to eat was disrespectful, because it was. He got upset and just said, "Whatever. You're doing the same thing you did when I first met you and I tried to discipline your son. Being overly protective." I didn't really know how to respond to that. . .

Anyway, my bf texts me and he's upset because my husband was bragging that he went out to dinner with me last night and how my bf isn't allowed to take me out. I'm not really sure how to take this. My bf asked me not to say anything to my husband about it, to just ignore it. But he told me because he was really pissed about hubby rubbing his nose in it.

I'm seriously stuck at home and those two are bickering over this and I don't know how to get them to fucking KNOCK IT OFF! It's so stupid.

I don't know what the rules are. The rules are always changing. One day it's okay, the next it's not. If I voice what I want and my husband doesn't like it, he twists it around and makes me feel bad about feeling that way about it, or that my feelings about it are not valid.

Some days are good days. My husband brought my bf home with him from work last week and we had a good day together...

My bf doesn't like how much my husband talks in the bedroom. I don't really like how much he talks either. Some of the stuff he says is a turn off. I've always complained about that, and my bf is feeling the same thing I am. I just honestly think sex between the three of us needs to stop. I mean, I'm not really interested in being intimate with my husband when I'm with my bf anyway. It's not like when we'd have a swinger couple over. That was totally different dynamic.

So, I'm thinking I'm going to ask my husband to butt out when the bf is brought over, to not watch or be a part of our bedroom time together at all. Is that too much to ask? Do you think I'd be crossing a line if I requested that?

 

[SNeacail]

We rarely fight and we talk a lot about things. But yes, his rules do keep changing and it's so hard to follow them and sometimes it's unrealistic and I don't WANT to rebel against him at all but I have needs and wants too. . .

Time to sit down together and put some rules and boundaries in WRITING and signed by everyone! Post them to the bathroom mirror or pin them to the wall, whatever. That way no one can argue that they don't remember saying something was OK, only to change it later. If someone finds they can't stick to the written boundaries-- time to sit down and re-evaluate everything.

My husband calls my bf a mutt and starts ordering him around, like he's beneath him. This gets kind of old for him because at work, my husband is his boss.

He's not his employer, just a manager. He doesn't have the right to fire him or anything. He just gets to tell him what to do.

Legally this would be considered sexual harassment. This needs to be taken seriously and stop IMMEDIATELY! Some employers have clauses in their contracts that prohibit co-worker relationships, and your situation could be cause for termination of both parties, especially since your husband is bringing the bedroom stuff to work and using it against your bf.

 

[FullofLove1052]

Your husband thinks he is in competition with this other guy, so he feels inclined to rub his nose in every thing. And they work together? Oy vey. Definitely not the right approach. I do wonder how into the whole poly thing your husband is. How much time was devoted to talking about this? Why are the rules constantly changing? Is he even sure he wants to do this? How much time occurred between transitioning from swingers to polyamory? I am trying to establish a timeline.

No, you are not asking for too much, but I gather that your husband is not comfortable with you being alone with your bf in the bedroom. Or he could just be into the whole voyeurism thing. It turns some people on to watch someone pleasing their partner. No, it would not be crossing a line. Who knows what his reaction might be? He might decide that he is totally against you and your boyfriend having sex in the house. You never know.

 

[KerrBear]

I would strongly suggest you take a step back from all of this.

Your husband is clearly unhappy with you having a boyfriend. Not a good situation for him.

Your boyfriend is clearly feeling some form of pressure to do things sexually he is not happy with. Not a good situation for him.

You are having rules changed on you and being yelled at. Not a good situation for you.

Forgive me if I'm reading wrong, but I see a lot of you blaming your husband and excusing everything you've done to contribute to this situation: he asks for a weekend alone and you promptly make plans with your boyfriend, and explain that your husband should have been more clear about which weekend he wanted?

You keep talking about how you 'need' time with your boyfriend, and 'need' to be with him. No, actually, you don't. We've all survived massive crushes where, for various reasons, we couldn't be with the one we wanted... and we're still alive to tell the tale. You absolutely can stop seeing him. You absolutely do not need anything in particular with him. You want it very badly. Badly enough that it looks like it's causing a lot of stress in your marriage that apparently you're willing to keep causing. But you don't need it.

BTW, the only reason I brought up controlling is because we live in a world where people often accuse someone else of 'being controlling' for things like, oh, not liking their wife sleeping with other men. I personally don't find that controlling. I find it perfectly acceptable to want a monogamous marriage.

As someone else said, your husband's behavior is not exactly admirable in many instances, either. I don't know employment law, but I would think your boyfriend feeling any coercion in this sort of thing, from his boss, could put your husband on dangerous ground. This is a terrible situation, work-wise.

And on top of it, did I read in your other thread that you think it would be 'fun' to have babies with your boyfriend? Sorry if I got the wrong word. But babies and children are serious business. Please don't go bringing more children into this situation until there's some major work done by all three parties and there's PEACE all around with the situation. There clearly isn't right now, from any of you.

We are not in a monogamous relationship and haven't been for years. So him not wanting me to having a poly relationship is not fair, because we are swingers, because he didn't want to be monogamous with me. Besides, I have straight up asked him and he has told me that he is okay with me having a poly relationship, but just that he's feeling unhappy about how it makes him feel sometimes. I don't think he understands himself either.

YOU might find it acceptable to attempt to have a monogamous marriage, but for ME, I'm finding that this is not what I want. Our marriage would not have succeeded to this point if we would have continued down that path. I have probably never wanted monogamy either, because I took to swinging quickly after my husband was caught being non-monogamous behind my back. I was okay with swinging. It was fun at the time.

I don't have a "crush" on my bf. I'm in love with this man and have a deep connection with him.

I'm a young woman who cycles. It is instinct to want to have babies. I cannot get pregnant easily, so it's not like I can just have an "oops." It was just extreme NRE when I was thinking that. I'm smart enough to know that it's not a reality, just a fun "hot" thought. Please.

My husband cannot and will not get my bf fired. My husband is a higher-ranking employee because he's been there longer. This isn't easy for them, and I know this. It's not like this was planned, but they work together okay. They have came to agreement that they don't talk about it at work and they usually follow that.

I COULD walk away from my bf, but that would cause me a lot of unhappiness and wouldn't really resolve anything, because the two of them still work together and nothing was ever solved, just badly bandaged.

 

[KerrBear]

Time to sit down together and put some rules and boundaries in WRITING and signed by everyone! Post them to the bathroom mirror or pin them to the wall, whatever. That way no one can argue, they don't remember saying something was OK only to change it later. If someone finds they can't stick to the written boundaries, time to sit down and re-evaluate everything.

Legally this would be considered sexual harassment. This needs to be taken seriously and stop IMMEDIATELY! Some employers have clauses in their contracts that prohibit co-worker relationships, and your situation could be cause for termination of both parties, especially since your husband is bringing the bedroom stuff to work and using it against your bf.

Yeah, there is no legal paperwork like that where they work. My bf isn't even paid legally. He's under the table, like a good majority of my husband's employer's employees, so he doesn't have to carry insurance for anyone. But, I agree-- I think it needs to stop.

I'd be okay with sitting down, all three of us, and making a guideline list.

 

[SNeacail]

My husband cannot and will not get my bf fired. My husband is a higher-ranking employee because he's been there longer. This isn't easy for them and I know this. It's not like this was planned but they work together okay. They have came to agreement that they don't talk about it at work and they usually follow that.

It's not JUST about if your husband can get your bf fired or not. If your husband is making your bf's work environment unbearable, or overly stressful with his sexual harassment, your husband could get fired. It doesn't even have to be your bf that reports it. The bullshit at work needs to STOP!

 

[KerrBear]

Your husband thinks he is in competition with this other guy, so he feels inclined to rub his nose in every thing. And they work together? Oy vey. Definitely not the right approach. I do wonder how into the whole poly thing your husband is. How much time was devoted to talking about this? Why are the rules constantly changing? Is he even sure he wants to do this? How much time occurred between transitioning from swingers to polyamory? I am trying to establish a timeline.

No, you are not asking for too much, but I gather that your husband is not comfortable with you being alone with bf in the bedroom. Or he could just be into the whole voyeurism thing. It turns some people on to watch someone pleasing their partner. No, it would not be crossing a line. Who knows what his reaction might be? He might decide that he is totally against you and bf having sex in the house. You never know.

How much time was devoted to talking about this?

For years my husband has been pining for me to bring my best friend into our bedroom. He thought it would be a great idea to have me and someone I loved that would love him too. So he has been playing with the "poly idea" for years. It's just that it was him having the polyamorous relationship, not necessarily the other way around.

I personally never thought I was going to be in a polyamorous relationship at all. I wasn't looking for it, but always liked the thought of maybe having a swinger couple share our home with us. I have expressed this desire with my husband and he said it would also be fun with the right couple.

So that is pretty much the extent of our polyamorous background. Which is zero. This is our first serious attempt at one.

Why are the rules constantly changing?

I think it's because my husband doesn't know what he wants. He makes rules up as we go along based on how he's feeling about things, but doesn't really listen to what my boyfriend and I are requesting in return. This is the issue. This is why I think there is a hang-up here.

How much time occurred between transitioning from swingers to polyamory?

Well, it started out as normal swinging behavior. It was all sex-based at first. For about half a month it was texting dirty, but by the time my bf and I actually physically met, it was instant love for both of us. My husband is taken aback by how quickly we fell for each other, but my husband and I had also fallen in love with each other quickly.

We have talked about this pretty extensively. My husband realizes that I have had many swinger partners, even many single males, but not a single one of them had sparked my interest. I've even informed past casual partners that I was no longer interested in being with them because I'd figured out that that (casual sex) was not what I was looking for after all.

I have known my bf for about two months. I know this is a short time. I've only physically been with him five times in the past eight weeks, only twice where we were completely alone without my husband in the house.

I gather that your husband is not comfortable with you being alone with bf in the bedroom. Or he could just be into the whole voyeurism thing.

At first, my husband was not comfortable with us being alone. But that was because it was a swinging rule that he had made. He likes to watch. But I've expressed that I like to be alone with my partners sometimes. So that was a little disagreement we've always had with our swinging. He is a total voyeur. He really does get off watching me with another man. He has expressed he feels "left out" when I'm alone with another partner.

On the flip side of this, I'm not really a voyeur at all. I would rather not watch my husband be with another woman, but I'm okay if he is. Generally, when we were at swinger events and camp-outs, I would "fish" for him because he's not good at it. I'd hook him a good one, watch until he started getting busy, and then exit stage right. I would go and just chill with friends. I wasn't using it as an opportunity to swing alone, just to set the record straight . . .

We have talked about this. My husband is okay with us playing alone; he just doesn't like the "left out" feeling he still gets. He does understand that I have a real need to be with my bf alone, without my husband there watching all the time.

With the way things are, I would rather my husband be in a different room when he says it's okay for my bf to come over when we are intimate with each other.

We all hang out together well. The two of them get along well most of the time. It's just that my husband has exploded a few times and makes these little jabs that upset my bf.

 

[KerrBear]

It's not JUST about if your husband can get your bf fired or not. If your husband is making your bf's work environment unbearable or overly stressful with his sexual harassment, your husband could get fired. It doesn't even have to be your bf that reports it. The bullshit at work needs to STOP!

And like I said, I completely agree with you. I did post that "it's fucking stupid" in my update for today. . . How to get husband to stop though?

 

[AnnabelMore]

And like I said, I completely agree with you. I did post that "it's fucking stupid" in my update for today. . . How to get husband to stop though?

It's not just fucking stupid, it's deeply unethical, which is the point I was trying to make in my last post.

You asked how you are creating an unethical situation. Let's step back and just look at what's happening.

"My bf doesn't voice up, but I have on several occasions, and my husband gets upset and circles around about how horrible he has it because I'm not spending enough weekends with him, and how he feels he can't provide for me financially."

This is my translation of what you described above:

You're saying: "Your sexual/kinky actions towards bf are unwanted by him."

A person acting ethically would say: "Then I will stop immediately. That is never ok, especially when it comes to emotionally sensitive things like humiliation play, that can be hot as hell when they're consensual but can verge on, or even tip over into, emotionally damaging abuse when they're non-consensual."

Your husband is saying: "Too bad, my insecurities in this situation warrant this non-consensual activity."

You're then saying, not with words, but by your actions in continuing to participate in this sexual dynamic: "I accept that."

In theory, yes, your boyfriend should speak up. In reality, he's "used to being treated bad" (history of abuse?). He is also in a vulnerable, exploitable position. You say your husband couldn't/wouldn't get your bf fired. Maybe that's true, maybe your bf even intellectually believes that, but it would still be very valid and natural for him to feel fear over it. In this economy, losing your job can ruin your life. And, in general, a manager can, in fact, get you fired. So saying "no" is naturally going to be hard and scary, maybe even impossible.

Someone has to put a stop to this. Your husband won't. Your boyfriend feels like he can't. It's up to you. How? Refuse to participate any more. No more group sex without some honest, open, three-person conversations that lay out boundaries and agreements for safe, sane, consensual kink.

Since your bf seems to have a lot of trouble saying "no" within this relationship/dynamic, I would strongly suggest that one of those agreements be: These activities are on bf's "gray list."

(White = love it, I can be assumed to be ok with this unless I say no.
Gray = I'm semi-comfortable with this, but it depends on circumstances, it's negotiable.
Black = never do this.)

A clear, no-pressure "Yes, I would like this" must always be obtained from bf before "gray list" actions occur.

I know I've kind of been flipping out about this. But it's clear that you love your bf, and I don't think you realize that you're playing with fire when it comes to his mind and his heart.

Humiliation play is, for many, many people, a form of "edge play," which is to say that it comes very close to striking at things that could damage a person.

(Other examples of edge play include breath restriction and "consensual non-consent.")

You can't fool around with edge play. It's either done safely and consensually, or else you risk being in the heartbreaking position of discovering that you've badly messed up someone who means the world to you. Please be careful.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Let me just add this. You said your boyfriend is "used to being treated bad." Does this mean he has a history of abuse? Maybe it does and he's already told you about it. Maybe he's told you no such thing. And yet, even then, it would be wise to assume it, since adults who allow others to treat them badly are very often repeating patterns from childhood. Maybe not speaking up when your husband non-consensually humiliates him feels like the only safe response, because if he spoke back when his dad humiliated him as a kid, the next step was fists... or something worse.

The only safe and wise thing to assume here is that there may be something like that in his past, based on the behavior he's exhibiting. As such, humiliation moves from "might be edge play" to "definitely edge play, treat with utmost caution, be on the lookout for signs of distress (often non-verbal), and be prepared to stop all activity and provide comfort if distress is occurring." That is a safe environment. What you've been creating (actively in your husband's case, passively in yours) is not.

Please don't take this as me saying that you're uncaring predators. If I thought that, I wouldn't be wasting all this time typing. I just think you might not get this stuff yet, and that it's really, really important that you do, for all involved.

 

[KerrBear]

It's not just fucking stupid, it's deeply unethical, which is the point I was trying to make in my last post.

You asked how you are creating an unethical situation. Let's step back and just look at what's happening.

"My bf doesn't voice up, but I have on several occasions, and my husband gets upset and circles around about how horrible he has it because I'm not spending enough weekends with him, and how he feels he can't provide for me financially."

This is my translation of what you described above:

You're saying: "Your sexual/kinky actions towards bf are unwanted by him."
A person acting ethically would say: "Then I will stop immediately. That is never ok, especially when it comes to emotionally sensitive things like humiliation play, that can be hot as hell when they're consensual, but can verge on, or even tip over into, emotionally damaging abuse when they're non-consensual."
Your husband is saying: "Too bad, my insecurities in this situation warrant this non-consensual activity."
You're then saying, not with words, but by your actions in continuing to participate in this sexual dynamic: "I accept that."

No, I have never accepted this behavior. This happened one time, and when it happened, I was pretty pissed off at him just because it happened, well before I found out how it made my bf mad. It made ME mad. So how am I "accepting it"? I didn't cum on him. (Okay, maybe I have, but that's not what I'm trying to imply here.) It was my husband that took this upon himself. I had no idea he was going to do it until it happened. I even tried to push him away, but couldn't in time.

In theory, yes, your boyfriend should speak up. In reality, he's "used to being treated bad" (history of abuse?) and is also in a vulnerable, exploitable position. You say your husband couldn't and wouldn't get your bf fired. Maybe that's true, maybe your bf even intellectually believes that, but it would still be very valid and natural for him to feel fear over it... Saying "no" is naturally going to be hard/scary/impossible.

Someone has to put a stop to this. Your husband won't. Your boyfriend feels like he can't. It's up to you. How? Refuse to participate any more. No more group sex without honest, open, three-person conversations that lay out boundaries and agreements for safe, sane, consensual kink.

Yes, I realize this comes down to me. That's why I have been here, laying it all out the best I can, because I'm trying to make it work. I have already come to the conclusion that group sex is no longer a good idea. My bf very clearly stated that to me this morning via text.

Since your bf seems to have a lot of trouble saying no within this relationship, I would strongly suggest that one of those agreements look like this: These activities are on bf's gray list... a clear, no-pressure "Yes, I would like this" must ALWAYS be obtained from bf before they occur.

I don't think you realize that you're playing with fire when it comes to his mind and his heart. Humiliation play is, for many, many people, a form of "edge play", which is to say that it comes very close to striking at things that could damage a person (other examples include breath restriction and consensual non-consent). You can't fool around with edge play, it's either done safely and consensually, or else you risk being in the heart-breaking position of discovering that you've badly messed up someone who means the world to you. Please be careful.

I'm not really all for the "edge play" anyway. Honestly, the boys brought that to the bedroom. It was initially the bf's idea. He bought me a collar and a leash, but he has no real experience in it other than he's researched it some and practiced some stuff on himself. My husband and I are completely and totally green. I LOVE the collar on me, and I like being submissive like that with my bf, but it's a whole different story when my husband wants to play too. . . Do you think this is all my fault?

 

[AnnabelMore]

I'm not really all for the edge play anyway. Honestly, the boys brought that to the bedroom. It was initially the bf's idea. He bought me a collar and a leash but he has no real experience in it other than he's researched it some and practiced some stuff on himself. My husband and I are completely and totally green. I LOVE the collar on me and I like being submissive like that with my bf, but it's a whole different story when my husband wants to play too. . . Do you think this is all my fault?

No, sweetie, I really, really don't think it's all your fault. I know I've come off pretty harsh, but it's just from being scared for you guys. I get that you're new to this. Screwing up is natural. To be frank, I have a much stronger no-tolerance policy than some people I know when it comes to consent violations. Other kinksters would likely have a different take on events. I don't think at all that you're a bad person, and I hear you when you say that you didn't realize that was going to happen and tried to stop it.

It's normal not to know where the lines are when you're trying something new. Hopefully this will be a learning experience for everyone, including your husband. I really, really hope that he can see and understand the problems with his actions.

Dude, in case you're reading this, even if you don't respect your wife's bf, have enough respect for yourself not to use your difficulties with polyamory (many of which I've said clearly I thought were valid!) as an excuse to justify behavior that could easily be called abuse or exploitation.

Yes, this guy has a puppy-play fetish. Yes, that's a submissive fetish.

NO, BEING A SUBMISSIVE DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO THAT PERSON, WHENEVER YOU WANT, BECAUSE THEY'LL PROBABLY LIKE IT ANYWAY. THEY PROBABLY WON'T, AND THEIR DISCOMFORT OR PAIN IS NOT A FUCKING JOKE OR AN ACCEPTABLE FORM OF 'PAYBACK' FOR A PERCEIVED SLIGHT. Just... *sigh* just in case that's what you're thinking.

I... may have some feelings on this issue.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't know how to make this better. My husband has expressed that he is not wanting me to leave my bf and even encouraged us to stay together when I was pissed off and decided it would be better if I just abandoned the whole thing. My husband realized that I would be terribly unhappy and, as he works with my bf, it would really not solve anything at all.

Are you still at that decision place, or was that a "when I was pissed off" moment-thought thing? Because basically BF is not ending it, despite the things that are upsetting to him.

Husband is clearly upset with this and not getting a grip.

You want to keep both people in your life as lovers, despite it going against the grain. You struggle with accepting that you are not enough.

You can want things on your end 100%, but that's still only 33% of the total energy required in a three-person dynamic.

Even if BF is giving 100% of his energy-power toward this, the polyship is still at 66%. That's a D, not a passing grade.

This will be felt in your polymath as the crazy it is right now. I am sorry.

To me, it sounds like your husband enjoys swinging more than polyamory. Casual, recreational, no-strings-attached sex. Emotional involvement wigs him out. You do seem to want emotional involvement. It's a mismatch here to sort out.

For the time being, you could lose the kink/group sex, for sure, ASAP. That's playing with fire, with players who don't yet have those skills, and adds layers of complications to an already loaded situation.

If you are also still willing to break up with BF, you could do it, possibly, and get on board with solving your marriage problems.

If you cannot solve it all right now, you could at least think of how to lessen the load on your shoulders. No, this is not fun. But standing still doesn't help. You could make some decisions about taking action.

IF you need hard guidelines for behavior you do not want when you talk with your people, some ideas from the link below might help. The group could look it over one section at a time, with breaks.

I'm not saying anyone is being abusive or being abused, but some of your cited behaviors are on the list. Like when he "says I can do something, then gets mad when I do it" -- that's in Section 3.

A checklist like this, where you can just circle the things that do apply to you, and ignore what does not, might be faster for you, rather than struggling with "staring at a blank paper," trying to write down what bugs you. This can keep it more neutral, to identify behavior done/not done. Rather than attacking people, keep the focus on the behaviors.

[dead link]

Hang in there,
Galagirl

 

[KerrBear]

Are you still at that decision place? Or was that a pissed off moment-thought thing? Because basically BF is not ending it despite the upsetting things to him

Husband is clearly upset with this and not getting a grip.

You want to keep both people in your life as lovers, despite it going against the grain. You're struggle with accepting that you are not enough.

You can want things on your end 100%, but that's still only 33% of the total energy required in a three-person dynamic.

Even if BF is giving 100% of his energy-power toward this, the polyship is still at 66%. That's a D, not a passing grade.

It will be felt in your polymath as the crazy it is right now. I am sorry.

To me it sounds like your husband enjoys swinging more than polyamory. Casual, recreational, no-strings-attached sex. Emotional involvement wigs him out.
You do seem to want emotional involvement. It's a mismatch here to sort out.

For the time being, you could lose the kink/group sex. That's playing with fire, with players who don't yet have those skills, and adds layers of complications to an already loaded situation.

If you are also still willing to break up with BF, you could do it. Then get on board with solving your marriage problems.

If you cannot solve it ALL right now, you could at least think of how to lessen the load on your shoulders...

IF you need hard guidelines for behavior you do NOT want when you do that talk with your people, some ideas from the link below might help.

I'm not saying anyone is being abusive or being abused, but some of this behavior is on the list... It helps to keep it more neutral to identify behaviors, rather than attacking people.

http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Tactics-Murphy-2010.pdf [dead link]

Thank you for the guidelines. I agree that the 3-way kink should cease for now. I would like to keep experimenting with my bf, just him and me, as the issues only seem to be there when my husband is involved.

To throw another confusing wrench into this, my husband brought over my bf today as a surprise. I honestly think he's okay with the poly thing, but then sometimes he's not. I don't really know what polymath score we have right now...

 

[GalaGirl]

My husband brought over my bf today as a surprise.

I'd be leery. That might be nice, but no cigar. It seems kinda like bringing you "make-up roses or candy" to gloss over for past misconduct. But it does not address the root of explosion so FUTURE misconduct does not occur. Does he state an intention to change his behavior at all? Or is he sweeping things under the rug for now?

I think everyone could shoot for clarity of expectations and accountability here.

You could have your serious talk. Go over the check list. Print 3 of them, one for each player. Then everyone highlights the things they could improve, and scribbles in anything not already on the list of behaviors.

Get your guidelines mapped out for the personal standards all players are going to adhere to in this poly network, so everyone can be held accountable.

Make and meet the standards bar for your code of conduct. Co-create thy flag, then fly it and honor thy colors, rather than going all over the map. You know what I mean? Then you can break out the roses and candy.

Hang in there,
Galagirl