Crush on daughter's FWB

[hyperskeptic]

At 19 - newbie adult closer to childhood than adulthood - she is especially vulnerable. She is learning how to be an adult now. It's time for you to step up and continue to show her how to be a healthy adult by leaving the hottie FWB alone.

And by maybe revisiting this later on, I don't mean waiting for their connection to end, or waiting for your daughter to be older and then leap in. There will still be the same concerns. You could still hurt her as badly at 30 about this as at 19. But as she ages and the relationship fades into time, it is possible that she would be ok with you pursuing the ex. But that is a huge maybe. Don't put into your psyche that you will just bide your time and wait. Move on completely instead of holding onto a fantasy 'What if?'

Yes, I see.

These considerations are compelling, as complications on consent and equality in the relationships involved.

19-year-olds are legally adults, but in cognitive and emotional terms are not really there yet. It takes extra care to protect and foster the autonomy of "newbie adults." I like that term, and may steal it.

And, yes the dependence and trust involved in parent-child relationships are further complications in this case, even leaving aside the taboo/ick factor.

[Edit: In fact, the particular nature of the parent-child relationship, an unequal or asymmetrical relationship involving dependence and trust, may be what lies behind the visceral impact of incest taboo in the first place, regardless of the metaphysical hooey has grown up around it in a patriarchal culture (e.g., phantom penises, metaphysical stains), and regardless of the underlying biological advantages of having the taboo (e.g., genetic problems arising from inbreeding). A deep cognitive bias - role exclusion - is the enforcement mechanism that gives rise to the taboo. Role exclusion works like this: when we identify someone as playing one role in our lives (e.g., parent, teacher, boss), we react very badly (e.g., "EW!") if we suddenly find them playing another role (e.g., metamour, lover).]

 

[Dirtclustit]

I have absolutely no clue about Woody's personal life

I do believe any romantic relationship with a minor is grounds for abuse at the criminal level, which I believe are good guidelines if laws are necessary to draw out for stupid people, as I certainly believe that being tolerant or accepting in no way involves being tolerant of criminals or accepting of criminal behavior.

I would be extremely upset if I found out my nineteen year-old daughter had consented to violent role play that depicted rape with anyone, let alone with a person significantly more mature by either age or manipulation. However, at that age, my daughter would be free to make such decisions on her own, and have the right for my interference of such right, to be considered as a criminal act.

However, I am not fearful of any legal activity my daughter engages in, because I have a close relationship with my daughter. It is built on trust. She trusts me to talk with me, and even sometimes trusts my opinion over hers in certain matters, which isn't too typical for a child of her age. I have faith in her judgement in regards to even illegal activity, because I believe males are responsible for many laws which make criminals out of people who are not.

Because of the values that I raised my daughter with, which were not enforced but guided as much as she wished, and because I never broke her trust, she will become a very powerful and strong female adult, which often can be viewed as a problem by others who encounter my children at any point throughout their life, especially authority figures.

I can sympathize with problems authority figures have with my children, because I am the one who raised them. All I can say is it I don't envy authorities who come into contact with them, as they will soon learn what happens to authorities who may not always be in the right, which isn't always a case of being legally right, but also includes being ethically right.

Because any unexamined life, especially an authority's life, will have abusive behavior inflicted on the innocent. Even an examined life led by an authority figure is bound to have at least some degree of crossing that fine line of right and wrong use of said authority. (And there is always a fine line.)

I would be lying if I said that there have not been instances where I wished I had not raised my children as I did, because I sometimes forget who they are, and because for a moment I forget the amount of faith I should have in them, and I mistakenly think if they listened to me and obeyed, they would be better off. But I soon learn that when raised well, that is the way they know when they are ready for not needing my advice, which is good sign I will soon be seeking them for counsel. Little ones that mature into adults often have such better insight and logical points of view that their opinions are nothing short of revelations.

 

[Natja]

I was only commenting to Natja using the "short sharp shock" line, which is uttered in a Pink Floyd song, as was the phrase I used-- "Dig it?"

Yeah, that went waaaay over my head. I had no idea what you were talking about, to be honest.

 

[Nudibranch]

Way back to reply to the OP's question:

I prefer things simple and stoical. So when I confront issues, situations, or people that/who arouse in me emotion, self-doubt, questioning, back-and-forthing, and similar feelings, I know that it's my own inner magnetized needle wobbling and spinning, rather than pointing true north.

I've been polyamorous for over 40 years, and IME, if my entire being doesn't say a simple, quiet YES at every stage, renewed daily and without bodice-heaving and beads of sweat on the forehead, then it's something I should steer clear of. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, the amygdala is a traitor to sanity, and once you get to the touch-n-feel stage, add in oxytocin for a doom cocktail mixed and served up right in your own brain.

I'd say that your anguish, confusion, and lack of surety provide all the answer you could need. I'd ask you back: why are you doubting your own red flags telling you this is something you should nip in the bud? Whatever is triggering such strong emotions in you is the key to whatever you need to learn. But there may be better ways of learning it than getting emotionally/sexually/etc. involved with a boyfriend your teenage daughter brought home. (Dismiss all that with the casual modifier that HE is casual all you want. You are proposing not a relationship with him, but messing with a relationship with her. How come?)

For the record, I have no problems with relationships with vast age differences, so long as all parties are of legal age and ability to consent, and clear about what they are doing, and why. You admit you are not clear about what is happening; it's why you came here for public input.

At the very least, I'd say you need to slow way down and get past this fevered state before making any decisions. From where I sit, parents should have the maturity to relinquish attachments to people originally brought home by their offspring. Your resources for meeting potential partners should be far more developed than to need or choose to reach into your daughter's pool of associates.

 

[Dagferi]

I do not believe in going after anyone sexually or romantically who meant something to someone who is either friends or family to me. (Heck, IMO, it is never a good idea to get involved with coworkers either.)

Someone always seems to get hurt, even if they say it is ok.

 

[BoringGuy]

Way back to reply to the OP's question:

I prefer things simple and Stoical. So when I confront issues, situations, or people that/who arouse in me emotion, self-doubt, questioning, back-and-forthing, and similar feelings, I know that it's my own inner magnetized needle wobbling and spinning rather than pointing true north.

I've been polyamorous for over 40 years, and IME, if my entire being doesn't say a simple, quiet YES at every stage, renewed daily and without bodice heaving and beads of sweat on the forehead, then it's something I should steer clear of. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, the amygdala is a traitor to sanity, and once you get to the touch-n-feel stage, add in oxytocin for a doom cocktail mixed and served up right in your own brain.

I'd say that your anguish, confusion, and lack of surety provide all the answer you could need. I'd ask you back: why are you doubting your own red flags telling you this is something you should nip in the bud? Whatever is triggering such strong emotions in you is the key to whatever you need to learn. But there may be better ways of learning it than getting emotionally/sexually/etc. involved with a boyfriend your teenage daughter brought home. (Dismiss all that with the casual modifier that HE is casual all you want. You are proposing not a relationship with him, but messing with a relationship with her. How come?)

For the record, I have no problems with relationships with vast age differences, so long as all parties are of legal age and ability to consent, and clear about what they are doing, and why. You admit you are not clear about what is happening; it's why you came here for public input.

At the very least, I'd say you need to slow way down and get past this fevered state before making any decisions. From where I sit, parents should have the maturity to relinquish attachments to people originally brought home by their offspring. Your resources for meeting potential partners should be far more developed than to need or choose to reach into your daughter's pool of associates.

Bravo! What refreshing advice. I see this a lot, people ignoring what their gut is trying to tell them. Not trusting themselves or being true to themselves. Asking other people for advice, then back pedaling and explaining why that advice doesn't facilitate their agenda, when they already know what the right thing to do is (usually the boring, responsible thing - the thing that is opposite of orgasms and sexytimes and neurotransmitter cocktails). My favorite ones are when a person comes on and describes a fucked-up situation, then goes, "I want to be ok with this. How do I make my feelings agree with my mind?" or something along those lines. Then they get all this advice about boundaries and limits, and people try to explain compersion, etc., when the OP has clearly provided their own answers, but doesn't want to listen to themselves.

 

[Jamiex3]

Boundaries, dude, boundaries.

 

[GalaGirl]

FWIW, I am mainly replying to the OP's last paragraph. I have not read all the other posts, just onewayward's replies and thoughts.

Something in me is telling me that I am falling for this guy. And, perhaps, I haven’t been able to really hide that from him either (so hubby tells me), because he has started responding somewhat. Like, he’s started dropping by even when my daughter hasn’t come down to spend the weekend/holidays with us. And he’s been calling me often with some excuse or the other. I must confess, I’ve called him a few times, as well.

I just can’t figure how to handle this. But I don’t want to let go either.

Are you just enjoying your crush? You could just enjoy it quietly, and not say anything to anyone. Nothing to handle. Just let it blow on through, and enjoy the scenery as it goes by.

Are you suffering in your crush? You could choose not to see this guy, not to invite him over, or call him, or take his calls. Give your feelings a chance to die down in "volume" so they are not causing you to suffer.

Are you thinking about starting something with this guy? I do not recommend getting involved with any of your daughter's current dating partners or exes. Ever. The world is big enough to not have to deal in "potentially messy people" like daughter's teacher, boss, minister, ex-BF, current lover, etc. Why make life difficult/awkward for your own kid, and yourself and the potential person? It isn't like there's a people shortage where you live, where you don't have anyone else around to date, right?

However, if you want to pursue this, the simplest course of action is to just ask the daughter how she feels about it and if she will grant her blessing for you to date her ex. And wait to be sure he is her ex.

Before even going there, though, have you stopped to consider the "nutjob factor" risk? That's the biggest "sticky wicket" I see. Even if daughter gives her enthusiastic, cheerful "Go Mom!" blessing, maybe this guy wants to fuck the set and then move on to the next set -- leaving chaos in his wake. There are people like that, who want to "collect the set" of cousins, sisters, moms, daughters, whatever. (I apologize for this being crass sounding. I cannot remember the name of that particular fetish. )

Maybe he goes nutjob on all of you, leaving chaos in his wake in a different way. Can you, your daughter, husband, and son deal with it and the aftermath? This isn't just being "outed" as a swinger or poly person and dealing with that.

If you and the guy become dating partners/lovers, and he goes wacko, then he's a guy who has been with you and your daughter, and can use that against you. You could just prevent it by not even giving him that particular weapon to ding all your family with, to begin with.

Do not put yourself in a spot where he can turn on you and go:

• Said to you --- "Do this, or else I'll tell your daughter about us! I will tell everyone about us!"
• Said to your husband, son, or daughter -- "I know something about Mom. It is this. And further, do this, or I will tell everyone about us!"

Blackmail is not pretty. There's a skewed power exchange here... not the fun bedroom kind of power exchange of BDSM kinks.

It isn't just the power exchange shift between mother/daughter relationships, when you are an adult, and she's just crossing over into adulthood, to become your peer, and no longer your dependent. That's a sticky wicket all on its own, as part of "general growing up."

This is the power exchange between the potential guy and you and your family members. What kind of power over you and your family could he misuse to cause trouble in your lives, like social problems, problems at work, mental stress/strain problems? Maybe it's cool now. But how can you know that he won't stab you in the back with it in the future? It is very risky because you just cannot know.

To me, the emotional risks and price tag are much too great to pay, both in relationship with the daughter and in relationship to the rest of your world if the guy goes nuts on you. Any dating partner could go nuts on you, but it doesn't have to be magnified by being a nut who's been with both mom and daughter. That's a whole other level of mess.

So I'm hoping you choose to just enjoy your crush thing quietly, without telling anyone, and let it fade naturally. Smaller cookies for you, but infinitely more digestible!

If you had to turn to a forum to wonder and think it out, that could be telling you something. In decision making, to me a solid joyful "YES!!" is a solid YES. Any "maybe" or "no" is a not a joyful resounding "yes." It's better to err on the side of caution and only accept "YES" as "Yes." Anything less, no matter how you slice it, is just not a "yes."

Some choices in life are not "win or lose" but "Which choice stinks least?" In this case "not getting to date him" stinks less than "date him and risk all the mess," imo.

You are always free to choose things in your own life. You don't have to take on board strangers' feedback. But remember you are not free of the consequences of your choices. Choose carefully.

Galagirl