Half-Open Relationship

[Cloudy]

As this is my first post here, I'll tell a bit about myself, both as an introduction, and also to give some background for a question that's been plaguing me for some time.

I'm a 32-year old heterosexual male, a non-traditional college student, dating a 22-year old bisexual female, who is attending the same university. We've been dating for a bit over two years now. Early in our relationship, my girlfriend came out about her bisexuality publicly for the first time, and we began discussing bringing other girls into the bedroom with us. After about a year of discussion and lightly testing the waters, we began unicorn hunting, I suppose you'd say, and have had a few FMF threesomes. After each one, we've always felt better than ever about our relationship. Being with others somehow seems to bring us closer together.

Somewhere along the way, the subject of polyamory came up. While neither of us believes there's such thing as "the one", and while we both believe one can fall in love with more than one person at a time, we still remain poly virgins, though we're both interested in giving it a try.

Here's the rub... While we're both interested in bringing other girls into our relationship, both sexually and emotionally, my girlfriend has also expressed interest in doing so with other guys--something that wasn't the case at all previously. The problem is, I'm not okay with that. I am, admittedly, currently too jealous and insecure to agree to it.

So, after much loquaciousness, my question:
Am I a total chauvinistic, selfish, controlling jerk for wanting other girls in our relationship, but not allowing my girlfriend to have other guys? Is it required or expected that an open or poly relationship be open to all? Am I just not cut out for polyamory?

I'm totally open to the possibility that I am indeed being selfish. Part of me agrees, while another part of me says that that is simply my boundary, and that just because my girlfriend gives me blessing to do something does not mean that I have to reciprocate. Also, being with other girls is something my girlfriend and I can share. It's a common interest. I have no such interest in men.

I've consulted several friends, and while they mostly agree that I'm being a jerk, I'd like to hear from the actual poly community. Please let me know what you think. Don't sugarcoat anything. I want real, honest, educated responses.

Thank you for reading,
Cloudy

 

[CharlotteSometimes]

I don't think you're being a jerk. Normal, emotional reactions don't mean you're being a jerk.

But if I were you, I think I would stop and question why I was threatened by the extra penis as opposed to the extra vagina. What is it about her dating a man that you specifically don't like the thought of?

 

[Natja]

To expand on what Charlotte asked you, is it because you don't see the extra vagina as a threat? That it isn't real sex? And you feel that another penis will more likely lure her away?

We have a name for this. It is called 'One Penis Policy' and a feature of male entitlement that is sexist and is rooted in ownership of women, so although I too do not think you are being a jerk, this is rooted deeper than a boundary. It is to do with your real views about women and female sexuality-- i.e., women are something you and your gf can 'share' (as if she is a dessert or some inanimate object) but men are 'real' people.

Do you understand why this might come across as sexist?

 

[turtleHeart]

Also, being with other girls is something my girlfriend and I can share. It's a common interest. I have no such interest in men.

Have you been okay with your gf being with girls that are only interested in her, not in being shared, or is it that so far you've been okay with shared sexual experiences, not separate relationships?

 

[BigGuy]

1. You're being honest with your feelings, which is good.

2. Controlling others' actions to manage your insecurities is generally not a good idea.

3. Jealousy is either a phobic response, or it is a warning that something is wrong with the relationship. Only you can determine which it is. If it is phobic, then you must decide if you want fear to control your relationship. If you were afraid of flying, would you make your SO always take the bus?

 

[GalaGirl]

JEALOUSY

You answered yourself already. You do not like the sound of your GF being with other guys because:

a) You are currently too jealous and insecure to agree to it.
b) You prefer to share female lovers (because that feels good/safer?). You've shared good sexual experiences with GF and those female lovers, so it's not as scary.

Could read more on jealousy. Dig into WHY your own jealousy, and her dating women, feels safer to you than men, to help resolve your upset.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf
http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/jealousy.html

Think on whether UNSHARED female lovers could upset you too. If so, maybe it isn't the gender of the person.

Think on what makes it scary in other ways. Is it fear of demotion, displacement, intrusion? Something else?

Is it about competition, confidence, insecurity stuff because you live with a bullying inner voice?

PREFERENCES

Is it required or expected that an open or poly relationship be open to all? Am I just not cut out for polyamory?

Even if your jealousy and insecurity are resolved and you are totally solid and secure in yourself, it is not a "requirement" that if you are in an open or poly relationship with your GF that you "just be" agreeable to her being with all people and YOU concurrently. She can have her preferences. But so can you.

You have in internal list of "messy people," I'm sure. I'm also pretty sure people like your boss or your parents are near the top of the list! You would NOT be eager to participate in a polyship arrangement with her and those people and you concurrently.

She can always date whom she wants. You do not control her. But she cannot date X and you concurrently without YOUR goodwill and willingness to participate and have is result in a harmonious polyship.

Because you control you and what you wish to be a participant in or not. You can always say "No, thank you. Not like this. I do not want to participate in that. Sounds too messy for me."

Your preferences for your romances (for whatever reason) are your preferences. If you were into monogamous arrangements and offering her a monoship with you, she could sign up to participate or decline to participate.

If your preferences for an open model present her with an offer she digs, she digs it. If your offer is not something she's into, she can decline.

So just spit it out.

"My preferences at this time are _________. It could become _______ in time, but no guarantee. That's the offer on the table. What are your preferences?"

See if you are still compatible and still wanting the same things at this time or not. Even in the same person, what they might want from polyship could change over time. What you want as college students may not be what you want after graduation, for instance.

SUGGESTION

How about telling GF you are willing to talk about it and sort it out (assuming you really are) but are NOT willing to just jump in with her polydating men until you sort out what your jealousy/insecurity is pinging from inside you and what support/nurturing you may need from her in that process.

Would she be willing to consider postponing dating while helping you sort out what it is you need from yourself and from her, all that, or is she not willing? This article, while written from the POV of going "monogamous ---> open," delineates steps to a possible approach. Just as easily could be you guys going from "open with women ---> open with both men and women."

Everyone could state where their willingness lies at this time and sort what they are willing to do/not do. Then sort it out between you.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[WhatHappened]

After each one, we've always felt better than ever about our relationship.

How do the women in question feel afterward?

 

[BoringGuy]

You two just stick with hawt threesome secks and don't go "bringing people in to your relationship."

You don't "bring people in" to "YOUR" relationship. You "bring people in" to your BEDROOM.

You HAVE relationships WITH people.

If you want a relationship, stop saying "bring in."

If you want to "bring a girl in," stick with recreational threesomes.

This "bringing in" is gross. Read around the forum more.

 

[Inyourendo]

My ex husband was like that. 3ways were on, him having a gf was ok. Me having a gf of my own, not ok. Me having sex with men, not ok. I cheated on him multiple times over the ars, I felt completely justified in doing it. I know that cheating is never ok. That's how I met my husband, he and I were having an affair and I left x to be with him. Not saying this will happen to you but when you treat someone unfairly its always a possibility.

 

[newguy]

It's call a one-penis policy. So yes, it is a type of poly relationship. My wife (bisexual), my girlfriend (straight) and I have this type of relationship. They both know how I feel and it works for us.

I tried to get over (what some would call jealousy) my issues about having another man in my wife's or my girlfriend's life. I found that I'm cool with every aspect of either of them having a relationship with another male except sex. For me, I told my wife (then fiance') that she may want to end our relationship because I knew that I couldn't get over my issue. I even told her that I would rather see her happiest in a poly relationship where she could have more than one man than just happy with me and other female sexual relationship(s). She told me that she didn't think anyone could make her happier than I do, and since she knew how much it would hurt me, that she was willing to live with that boundary. We were married less than 6 months after that!! (No, it was not the reason we were waiting, just the way it happened.)

I met & starting dating my girlfriend (who never knew about the poly lifestyle) about 4 months after our wedding. Once we (all 3) decided to become a family, we had the talk about my (only) boundary. She stated her boundary (no other women except wifey) to which I agreed. Now, we are a happy family!

I told you that because I wanted you to know that there are some poly relationships that work with a one-penis policy. You just need to make sure that this would be agreeable with your GF. I also would suggest that you try to get over your issues,. Who knows? Maybe it won't be as bad as mine. But if they are, the big question is are you willing to lose your GF over those issues? I was, because it would have made her happiest. I'm glad I didn't have too. Yet.

Good luck.

 

[newguy]

Oh, I forgot to answer some of your questions. No, I don't think you are a chauvinistic, selfish, controlling jerk. No, it's not required to be in a poly relationship. As for your last question about if you are cut out for this, that can only be answered by you.

Again, good luck.

 

[BoringGuy]

No, I don't think you are a chauvinistic, selfish, controlling jerk.

But for all we know, you (the OP) could be. There are other things that make people chauvinistic, selfish, controlling jerks besides whether or not they want to fuck two women but don't want "their" women fucking other men. We, "the poly community," we don't have enough information about you to judge you that way. Yet.

 

[Vinccenzo]

I keep saying it, but there is a commonality in men, in my experience, who can't deal in the same way you can't deal, to tend to think of sex as something they do to women and not something they do with women. Women don't do anything but receive (in their minds) and they want to be the only one being received. And yes, this is a f'ed-up sexist attitude that implies that only men are sexually potent.

It also implies the pleasure women have is only "real" if they get it from a man, and you don't want her having pleasure unless you get something out of it too.

And women "brought in" to this situation are not a threat, because they are easily discarded and replaced. You might be fearing being discarded or replaced when it comes to men because you only see that as a possibility if your GF is with another man.

 

[Dagferi]

So, after much loquaciousness, my question:
Am I a total chauvinistic, selfish, controlling jerk for wanting other girls in our relationship, but not allowing my girlfriend to have other guys? Is it required or expected that an open or poly relationship be open to all? Am I just not cut out for polyamory?

I'm totally open to the possibility that I am indeed being selfish. Part of me agrees, while another part of me says that that is simply my boundary, and that just because my girlfriend gives me blessing to do something does not mean that I HAVE to reciprocate. Also, being with other girls is something my girlfriend and I can SHARE. It's a common interest. I have no such interest in men. I've consulted several friends, and while they mostly agree that I'm being a jerk, I'd like to hear from the actual poly community. Please let me know what you think. Don't sugar coat anything. I want real, honest, educated responses. Thank you for reading.

-Cloudy

Are you a jerk? IMO, no. Are you being unfair and selfish? IMO, yes.

What if your girlfriend falls for a woman who wants nothing to do with you? Would you allow her to date her, or are you only okay with the situation if you get your kicks too?

 

[kkxvlv]

It strikes me as funny how often people ask and answer whether something is right or wrong, fair or unfair. Who needs a right and wrong? Who cares if what you're doing is fair, if someone is miserable? Any policy is fine as long as the people involved are happy with it that way. As newguy points out, it works fine for him because the woman didn't want it enough to fight it.

You've got to ask yourself and your partners. Right now it's a preference. If your partner accepts right away, there you go. It's fine. If she doesn't, you've both got choices to make for yourselves. Maybe you'd like to have these experiences in life with your GF enough to work on whatever bothers you about her being with another man. Maybe it's not worth it and you don't open at all. Maybe you decide this difference is too important to you to continue being together because you can't find a solution that makes you both happy.

Don't sit around asking others what's fair. If she's not happy with limiting herself to women, and a bunch of strangers tell her too bad, it's fair because you don't like it, she's not going to be any happier. If you really can't find happiness if she is with another guy, no amount of us telling you it was fair matters. Figure out what you're both willing to do.

That said, my thanks to BoringGuy for coming up with the most concise illustration of "bringing in" I've seen yet. I agree with that advice, as well.

 

[BoringGuy]

Indeed; I cannot see past this "bringing in" whenever it comes up, no matter what else. If you go about it that way, it isn't really relevant what sex/genders the people are, whether there is an OPP or not. It's about being self-aware, and realizing that you might see this as a wonderful generous thing: "Look, you get to join our relationship, which is already fully stocked with anything a girl could possibly want! We've installed a 3-person hot-tub, ordered the champagne and bubble-bath! And we are sure this is what we want. It could be yours, too! As long as you want the same things we want. This could be an awesome opportunity for the right girl! But only if you are a non-smoker (tobacco only, 420 ok in moderation and/or on weekends or special occasions, before/after meals, sex, fights, make-up sex, talks, walks, walks in the park, talks in the dark, huh? Whatever-- we pretty much smoke pot every damn day morning noon and night, we smoke joints while getting ready to do bong hits, so you better do that too, or at least be ok with being around it all the time, and all our friends stopping by to um, "visit". We have lots of friends, and they like to stop by for visits, but don't worry they only last like 5 or 10 minutes and take place mostly in our bedroom. Are you ok with that? We're ok with it if you want to have some people over, as long as they stay out of our bedroom... Unless we invite them in to chill... This is our home, and we're very protective of it, you would be the same way if this were YOUR home), moderate alcohol drinker (beer/wine only), DDD free, enjoy caring for children/dogs, but must not have any of your own children or pets, although we could probably make room for a hamster or goldfish, but not a birdcage or large aquarium. THIS IS NOT ABOUT JUST SEX. We are looking for a serious, equal relationship with the right woman."


Won't someone make me stop? This is way too easy...

 

[Inyourendo]

Oh Boring Guy, I dig the way your brain works.

 

[newguy]

We, "The poly community"

BoringGuy, my apologies. I missed the vote where you won the "Speaker for all of the Poly Community" chair.

Seriously, this thread is not about me. He asked questions of people in a poly relationship. Since (the last time I checked) I'm in one, I answered his questions the way I felt. I'm not sure why you would attack me for my opinion on this issue. Was it because it differs from yours?

Anyway, my opinion about this situation, and knowing nothing about him otherwise, I don't think he is a jerk. But if you think he is, or if you think I am for the way I feel, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But to say that I might be one because you don't know me well enough, in my opinion, is wrong.

Last question-- if I had agreed with you and called him a jerk, would you have still made that statement about me? The statement about not knowing me? I wonder.

 

[BoringGuy]

BoringGuy, my apologies. I missed the vote where you won the "Speaker for all of the Poly Community" chair.

Seriously, this thread is not about me...he asked questions of people in a poly relationship. Since I'm in one, I answered his questions the way I felt. I'm not sure why you would attack me for my opinion on this issue. Was it because it differs from yours?

Anyway, my opinion about this situation, and knowing nothing about him otherwise, I don't think he is a jerk. But if you think he is, or if you think I am for the way I feel, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But to say that I might be one because you don't know me well enough, in my opinion, is wrong. Last question-- if I had agreed with you and called him a jerk, would you have still made that statement about me? The statement about not knowing me?

Ohhh gaaaawwwd, not again. Not this, "Wahhhh-- Boring Guy attacked me" crap again. Other people get it.

Oh Boring Guy, I dig the way your brain works.

See? How come u no get it? Y u no laffing, mon? Are you seriously butt-hurt or are you making fun of me back? Because before I try to explain it to you, I need to know if it is really necessary or not. You do realize we're all friends here. We can hang or whatevar. But don't b trippin, yo.

 

[kkxvlv]

Reread the post, Newguy:

But for all we know, you (the OP) could be. There are other things that make people chauvinistic, selfish, controlling jerks besides whether or not they want to fuck two women, but don't want "their" women fucking other men. We, "the poly community," we don't have enough information about you to judge you that way. Yet.

Not that BG needs me to defend him, but where did you even get the idea BoringGuy was attacking you? If he was attacking anyone, is was the OP. He only referred to you to say that while you (Newguy) don't think the OP is a jerk, "we" (the group) don't actually know if he's a jerk or not, because we (the group) don't have nearly enough information to judge that.

The way I see it, BoringGuy is a lot more boring than people imagine. He's not trying to be clever or attack people. He's just a man who is tired of people not saying what they mean. In this case, I think you meant to say you didn't think the OP's feelings about this situation make him a jerk. Instead you've made a judgement of his entire character as a jerk or not based on one short post.