New to polyamory. Threesomes.

[shrivelwood]

Hey there,

Just thought I'd introduce myself and explain my situation a little. I'm a 25 y/o male, with a 24 y/o fiancée, Zelda. We've been together 3 years now. We've always been very open when it comes to sex. Zelda is openly bisexual, whereas I consider myself more bicurious.

We talk a lot about inviting other people into our bedroom, as it's a common fantasy we share. We've managed to involve both a male and a female on separate occasions.

We struggle a lot because very few of our friends are as open-minded as us. This is my first problem, because we're on a never-ending mission to find someone who will join us in the bedroom so we can experiment. We've approached many of our friends, who seem eager when they've had a drink, but then after a short game of strip poker or something, they draw the line at which they are comfortable with.

This is more than fine with me. I never try to push people's boundaries and would never let people do something they're not comfortable with.

But anyway, the next morning or days following, things just get real awkward, and then they distance themselves from us, and we end up losing friends.

Recently though, Zelda and I met up with an old school friend of mine, Blythe. We talked and flirted over text for weeks before meeting up with her for a very sexy night.

(I say school friend loosely. In school I was madly in love with her, but the feelings were always one-sided. Sorry, going off track.)

Soon after we had this amazing night together, Blythe met a guy online, Carlos, and began dating him. This didn't stop our flirty texts, sexy pictures, and future plans to meet up again.

Rather than Blythe cheating on Carlos, we all decided to play some games: drinking, stripping and dares. Soon the night got very sexual again, for three of us. Carlos wasn't in the mood. So that night ended. It caused a lot of friction between the four of us. Carlos got very jealous of Blythe speaking to us. Since then, Zelda and I have promised to behave so Blythe can have a shot at making it work with Carlos. This was all going great until one night, after many drinks together (the four of us), everyone else had gone to bed except for Blythe and me. She was a bit tipsy. She confessed to me that she'd loved me all the way through school, and still loved me now.

I have to be honest-- it really blew me out of the water. I mean, I'm due to get married to a woman I love in 2 months, and here I am sitting with a girl I loved for many years, who is telling me she felt the same. Needless to say, she got embarrassed, and made a quick exit to go to bed.

Because I share everything with Zelda, I woke her gently and confessed the conversation that just took place. She was a tiny bit shocked, but to be honest, it was more a feeling of "I told you so," because she had once said it was clear the way Blythe spoke to me that she had feelings.

So anyway, after that night, I've been having increasing feelings about inviting Blythe to be "part of our relationship." It seems really arrogant for me to say this, but I genuinely feel that neither Zelda nor Blythe will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do.

Not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.

I have spoken to Zelda about this. She's fully aware of the feelings I once had, and the fact that these feelings may be resurfacing. We talked in great depth about how different things could have been if only a few things were changed, etc. Zelda trusts me as much as I trust her, so she was able to tell me her worries. She confessed that she thinks she might get jealous of having to share me with another woman. But she seemed much happier when I explained that Blythe would be a girlfriend to us both.

It's hard to explain, really. Like there'd be Me & Wife, Me & Gf, Wife & Gf.

Of course I haven't mentioned any of this to Blythe, because she's attempting to make her current relationship work, and to be honest. I really need to be clear in my own mind about it before suggesting it. lol

So what I guess I really wanna know... is it okay to love 2 people at once? Why should it always have to come down to a choice? I mean, I would never turn my back on my fiancée! But in a "traditional" relationship, if one person develops feelings for another, it usually signifies they no longer love the original person, which ultimately leads to a break up.

Shrivelwood

 

[Dirtclustit]

Quite a predicament you've gotten yourself into there

I've had to learn the hard way to be careful of people who know you've had or have feelings for them that aren't mutual, until it looks like you've moved on, and suddenly they always had a secret crush on you. Of course, it could go the other way, and Blythe really did love you all this time, and she isn't being selfish or manipulative. In the end, only you guys will know for sure. It's either really good news or a sign to run like hell.

If there is a next time all four of you get together, it might work out better if you talk about things and situations before they begin to get sexual. For some people that kills all of thrill of being spontaneous, or squashes the excitement of not knowing what's going to happen, or if anything is going to happen. And that can be a problem for those who really like that thrill. And it is fun. But my experience is that when the people involved have deep emotional ties, letting things get sexual without ever even discussing how attractive you find someone's spouse, or that when you hugged them you almost found yourself automatically going in for a smooch because it just felt natural (or just anything to get a sense of whether or not they would be OK with that).

But from my experience, letting it get sexual on its own can cause panic. And the person might back out and be offended, even if they secretly wanted it to happen too.

If Blythe loved you the whole time, and knew you liked her, you gotta wonder why she waited to say something until you were engaged and about to get married. I don't know what to tell you. Some people get a little crazy when it comes to strong emotions.

Who knows what the hell they are thinking? But I am convinced if it isn't something very casual and no emotions attached, that it always works better if it's thoroughly discussed.

I don't have any statistics for you except to say it's what I have come to believe.

Not that a person should be coached or anything, but just so you know, with a little patience, empathy, honesty, and a genuine concern for your partner's well-being and happiness, just that, plus being interested and/or really listening to your partner will typically be much more love than most people are used to experiencing.

So, just a heads-up, because if a marriage and family counselor heard you say:

... I genuinely feel that neither my fiancée or Blythe will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do.

they tend to make note of such statements, even though it may be innocent. People that are emotionally abusive tend to tell their partners stuff like that. So it will raise some flags.

In any event, I promise you that anybody is able to love nearly infinitely, but if you aren't reflective or consciously thinking about how your behavior affects your partners, it is very easy to become oblivious to the harm that can be done while being "blinded" by love.

Sounds like your non-monogamy experience could get really good. Try to consciously steer it that way, as they sometimes also end up really bad.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

Hello and welcome. Thank you for sharing your story, thus far, with us.

I have a few comments that you may (or may not) find helpful. I'll chop and paste your post a bit. Please correct me if that ends up taking anything out of context.

Easy things first:

Is it okay to love 2 people at once? Why should it always have to come down to a choice? I mean, I would never turn my back on my fiancé, but in a "traditional" relationship, if one person develops feelings for another, it usually signifies they no longer love the original person, which ultimately leads to a break up.

You are on a polyamory board, so many of us here (me included) are going to say "Yes, it is okay to love 2 people at once! It does not always have to come to a choice." Actually, even in many "monogamous" pairings, people recognize that you can love more than one person, but the "boundaries" of the relationship preclude one from acting on that feeling. (This is a whole 'nother topic of conversation-- Is "emotional cheating" the same as "sexual infidelity"?)

Having said that, it seems that not everyone is capable of this. Some people feel that they are "monogamously wired" and that having feelings for another does signify that they no longer love their former love. In your current situation, you may need to consider that perhaps Zelda and Blythe may, in fact, be monogamously inclined (even if not sexually exclusive). So to say:

My fiancée trusts me as much as I trust her, so she was able to tell me her worries... She thinks she might get jealous of having to share me with another woman. But she seemed much happier when I explained that Blythe would be our girlfriend.

-- is actually a big jump. You seem to be poly-inclined. Zelda seems to be, at least, okay with exploring that. But Blythe only confessed to loving you in the past, and loving you now. So, from what you have written, the question: "How does Blythe feel about Zelda?" is still up in the air. Just because she Blythe been interested in joining you and Zelda physically/sexually does not necessarily mean that she is interested in having an emotional relationship with Zelda.

For some people (me, for instance) sex and love are different matters. I am sometimes interested in having sex with people that I don't love and I sometimes love people that I won't have sex with. It's really nice when both happen with the same people, but, for me, this is not required.

It sounds to me, and correct me if I am wrong, that your "open" experiences with Zelda have been pretty casual-sex-focused-- drinking, strip poker, fantasy fulfillment, experimental, happy, happy, fun times, but not necessarily intimate or relationship-forming encounters (not that there is anything wrong with this!). The "unrequited love" aspect between you and Blythe adds a whole layer to the mix, especially since you:

I haven't mentioned any of this to Blythe, because she's attempting to make her current relationship work, and I really need to be clear in my own mind about it before suggesting it.

Blythe may just have wanted to get her old closely-held feelings off of her chest. She may be more interested in forming a relationship with Carlos than pursuing a complicated arrangement with you two. She may be more interested in forming an emotional relationship with you singular, specifically, with only occasional "sexy fun times" in the bedroom with you and Zelda, as a threesome. You can't know until you talk to her about it.

Sure, talk to Zelda about what the two of you are comfortable trying, but realize that Blythe will have ideas of her own. How flexible are you willing to be? What if, for instance, Blythe is willing to try it out, but only if Carlos is also involved (assuming he gets to the place where he is comfortable with this)? Are the two of you willing to be part of their relationship, as well as inviting Blythe to be part of your relationship? Tit for tat? Are you willing to be Carlos's boyfriend? Is Zelda willing to be Carlos's gf? In the same manner you are proposing that Blythe be Zelda's girlfriend?

Complicated quad stuff!

As for this:

It seems really arrogant for me to say this... But I genuinely feel that neither Zelda nor Blythe will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do. Not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.

I understand that you love and care for them a lot, the maximum possible (in your estimation). But there are 8 billion people on the planet, most of whom we will never meet, but, unless they are the next Hitler (in which case, why do you love them?), the chances that they can find someone who can love and care for them as much as you are statistically pretty fair.

I found two lovers 19 years apart. The next one may turn up tomorrow, or never.

To be utterly fair, this is actually Blythe's, Zelda's (and Carlos's) judgement to make, not yours. Their priorities may be unfathomable to you.

I don't know if this made a whole lot of sense, but here you have my thoughts.

JaneQ

 

[WhatHappened]

We talk a lot about inviting other people into our bedroom, as it's a common fantasy we share. We've managed to involve both a male and a female on separate occasions, though we struggle a lot because very few of our friends are as open-minded as us.

What exactly is it you struggle with? Finding people to have group sex with the two of you? And this is because they're not as 'open-minded' as you are? If I have this right, then what does 'open-minded' mean to you? Does preferring sex one-on-one, or preferring an intimate moment to be private make someone closed-minded? I'm just trying to be clear here on what you're saying.

We've approached many of our friends, who seem eager when they've had a drink, but then after a short game of strip poker or something, they draw the line at which they are comfortable with... This is more than fine with me. I never try to push people's boundaries, and would never let people do something they're not comfortable with. The next morning or days following, things just get real awkward, and then they distance themselves from us, and we end up losing friends.

So this behavior keeps ruining friendships, but...

Recently though, Zelda and I met up with an old school friend of mine, and we talked and flirted over text for weeks before meeting up with her for a very sexy night.

You keep doing it anyway?

And just a thought-- if the pattern is that they do it when they've had a drink--only when they've had a drink?--and then become uncomfortable afterward to the point of avoiding you, and couple that with your opinion that they're 'not as open-minded as you,' and you're on a perpetual hunt for new bed partners, it seems to me quite possible that their boundaries were being pushed. Just a thought.

So soon after we had this amazing night together, Blythe met a guy online (Carlos) and began dating him. This didn't stop our flirty texts, sexy pictures, and future plans to meet up again.

Was this new guy aware she was still sending flirty texts and sexy pictures to you, and planning to meet up again?

Rather than cheating on Carlos, we all decided to play some games; drinking, stripping and dares. Soon the night got very sexual again for three of us. Carlos just wasn't in the mood. This caused a lot of friction between the four of us. Carlos got very jealous of Blythe speaking to us.

It seems like you keep doing the same thing you always did and keep getting the same results.

Since then, Zelda and I have promised to behave so Blythe can have a shot at making it work with Carlos.

Very touching. Very noble. Of course Blythe herself can make her own decisions about how to behave, if she really values Carlos, and how he ended up feeling about it all. A feeling that, btw, shouldn't entirely surprise you, since you keep having the same results from the same behavior.

It seems really arrogant for me to say this... But I genuinely feel that neither Zelda nor Blythe will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do. Not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.

"Seems arrogant"?? You nailed it. JaneQSmythe put it so kindly. I gotta say, to me, having read thousands of postings from women on an infidelity board over the years, it also makes me think how many women didn't leave abusers because the guy had them convinced they'd never "find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do." My XH had me convinced of this. Lo and behold, not even remotely true. But convincing women of this can go a long way to destroying their self-esteem, such that they tolerate way more than they should.

But Zelda seemed much happier when I explained that Blythe would our girlfriend... I haven't mentioned any of this to Blythe because she's attempting to make her current relationship work.

So Blythe was in love with you 8 years ago in high school. She had a threesome with you and Zelda. (Only once?) But she's trying to make a relationship work with this other guy she likes now. But you've assured Zelda that Blythe will be a joint GF to both of you, without asking Blythe about it? It's posts like this that leave people thinking some people are out there looking for a living breathing sex toy. You haven't even asked Blythe, and you're already promising her, body and soul, as a gift to Zelda?? Seriously? Does she come with a silver bow and a gift tag? What happens if she malfunctions and doesn't go along with the program? Can you return her, full purchase price refunded, to her current boyfriend?

Is it okay to love 2 people at once? Why should it always have to come down to a choice? I mean, I would never turn my back on Zelda. But in a "traditional" relationship, if one person develops feelings for another, it usually signifies they no longer love the original person, which ultimately leads to a break-up.

Of course it's okay to love two people at once. Honestly, did you think you'd get any other answer on a board for polyamory?

However, I think you should be thinking about much bigger issues right now, like why you'd tell Zelda you and she can share Blythe without discussing it with Blythe herself.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I love two people. No problem. No one, I repeat, no one, including the two loves of my life can promise anyone, including each other, that I will be anything. Only I can do that.

Likewise, you can't promise anyone that another person will be anything. Not your right, not your place. This line of reasoning is arrogant. This line of thought generally leads to disaster.

In addition, if drinking booze ignites more open behavior from people who, when sober, aren't okay with it, and this is ruining friendships, how about taking alcohol out of the equation? If they aren't interested sober, they aren't interested. Period. And you can avoid the drama and ruining friendships.

 

[shrivelwood]

Wow, I honestly didn't expect replies this soon.

I just thought I'd come back and clear a few things up and give an update on things. When I first posted this thread, my mind was all over the place, as it was all all quite recent. Since then, I've had time to think, and time to talk to Zelda to help clear my mind a bit.

I've come to the realisation that nothing will happen between the 4 of us again sexually. I should be thankful for the one (or two) opportunities that did happen.

Though Blythe continues to secretly flirt with us both, I realise that's all it is, flirting. Even though she's trying to make things work out with her current relationship, when she's had a drink her inhibitions go out the window, and she admits her sexual attraction to us. This has made it hard for us to reject the advances. But hey, we want her to be happy, and we don't want to be the temptation that causes stress on her relationship with Carlos.

Also, I talked to Blythe about the love confessions, and I've gotta be honest, it completely threw me off. Yes, it was fantastic to hear that it wasn't one-sided in school after all, but I've decided it makes my life much easier if I recognise she said that, but try my best to forget the part where she said she still loved me.

I might have also confused things in my own mind, mistaking old feelings, where I loved Blythe all the way through school, and thought that the feelings were the same now. Yes, I still love her, but it's a totally different kind of love from that which I share with Zelda. It's more a feeling of caring for her, helping her with all her issues, and always being there for her to talk to. These are qualities most people have in really good friendships, but with everything that's happened, like seeing someone I haven't seen for years, the sex threesome, and all the care/attention I've been giving her, I've confused it as something more.

I know this message has caused a bit of a stir, so I thought I'd clear things up a bit:

It seems really arrogant... I genuinely feel that neither Zelda nor Blythe will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do. Not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.

All I meant by this was that I have a large capacity to love and care for these people. I've never said to either that they won't find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do. I've never even implied such a message, as the last thing I would want to be is emotionally abusive, or reducing their self esteem. I simply meant that I know in my own mind that I could care for both unconditionally.

As for the whole losing friends thing, I may have exaggerated a little. Rest assured that all the people that played these games with us while drinking were open to the idea, and some even instigated it themselves. When the morning came, it was not so much a feeling of awkwardness, more a feeling of, "Dude, I had fun, but I was drunk," much the same as many one-night stands. Of course I'm not proud of this, but we're a mid-20s couple who enjoy a night of drinking, etc. Also, it's not as if these incidents were the root cause to why we've lost contact with our friends. Zelda and I recently moved 60-odd miles away, so we've been seeing these people less.

Zelda and I had a very deep and emotional talk, and we realised that we both want to focus on our wedding for the time being, but also that we're reading off the same page in regards to an open relationship. We're both open to the idea of inviting people to join us, but only in the bedroom, not into our relationship. One of the main reasons why our relationship is strong is because no matter what happens, we're always together as a team.

Thanks again for all your messages. It really did help to get a better perspective on my whole situation.

Shrivelwood

 

[IndieSolo]

While I was reading your first post, I was thinking, "What does any of this have to do with polyamory?" And now I've read your last post, and I feel that it's a good thing you and your fiancée talked and came to your realizations. Since you both want an open relationship with occasional, no-strings, purely recreational sex with other people that does not lead to actual loving relationships, you'd be better off looking into swinging, since (obviously) what you want is not polyamory. There are plenty of sites online that can help you find other swingers who are local to you, when you are ready. But I would watch the drinking, if I were you. It seems like you let yourselves lose control fairly often, and this could lead to problems. Good luck.