Feelings of inadequacy (possible triad)

[stillskies]

So, my wife Rose, our girlfriend Mari and I are a little over two months into this dating thing. So far, it's been going pretty well? I mean, we haven't really had much conflict, though we're all working through our own issues and insecurities that engaging in this kind of relationship has brought up.

One of the issues that Rose is having is feeling as though she is inadequate as a partner for me specifically. She has the perception that she should be everything I need, and since I have feelings for someone outside of the relationship, she is not. I have tried to explain that that is not the case, but she is so tied up with her perceptions that she has a hard time understanding.

She's also struggling with whether or not she can feel romantic feelings towards someone other than me. The three of us have already agreed that if she can't, or if any of us feels like this is not going well, or for whatever reason we want to walk away from the threeway relationship, we can. Neither Rose nor I are pressuring Mari with anything, and we keep telling her to go at her own speed, which she feels isn't fast enough. Right now, she feels very close to Rose, she enjoys spending time with her when we see her, and holding her hand and cuddling on the couch and whatnot, but she's not sure if what she feels is romantic.

So, she thinks that if she can figure at least one of these things out, it would greatly help her so that she can try to resolve her own feelings about everything. The entire relationship is consensual. We communicate about practically everything, and everyone made their own independent decisions to engage in it. Mari says she feels no resentment about anything, but that it's just a difficult transition for her.

I guess what I'm asking is if anyone has any suggestions or advice on dealing with the feeling of inadequacy in a relationship. I'm trying to be as supportive as I can, but because we have such radically different views on what a partner should get from a relationship, it's hard for me to entirely comprehend. Rose and I match up on a lot of these world views, and we're both trying to be there and reassure someone that we love and care about, while trying to understand.

 

[BSP83]

So your wife doesn't really want to be dating your girlfriend? That's what it sounds like to me. Why does she need to date your girlfriend? If she doesn't have feelings for her, why push it? Can Rose go out and find her own partner if she chooses?

These are just questions that pop into my head as I read your post. Most FMF triads don't work, in part because there is this idea that everyone has to be in love with everyone, and it should all be equal and the same, blah, blah, blah.

In my case, I dated our gf first. I fell in love with her completely on my own, she fell in love with me. After a while, and times hanging out around each other, P and S started to date and eventually fall for each other. The relationships are different. "Fair" or "equal" means that everybody is getting what they need at that given time. This is not the "typical" set up for a triad.

I'm glad you all are communicating and open, but all the communication in the world will not make your wife feel something for your girlfriend if it's just not there.

 

[Marcus]

She's also struggling with whether or not she can feel romantic feelings towards someone other than me.

Does she want to be polyamorous? It sounds like she's trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

The three of us have already agreed that if she can't, or if any of us feels like this is not going well, or for whatever reason we want to walk away from the threeway relationship, we can.

This seems to be a problem inherent in this sort of relationship. When two people meet, they either have chemistry or they don't, and hopefully there is no external pressure pushing them to force chemistry where it doesn't exist. When a couple tries to date the same person, there is an added issue of everyone needing to be interested in everyone else. It's hard enough to find a good balance between two people. Arbitrarily deciding that three people should be into each other ups the stakes dramatically.

Since your wife Rose doesn't sound like she is polyamorous, have you discussed dating individually? It's pretty much what you're doing right now, except it wouldn't include an external pressure for these two women to create chemistry that doesn't exist.

Neither Rose nor I are pressuring Mari with anything. We keep telling her to go at her own speed, which she feels isn't fast enough.

I'm sure it isn't your intention to pressure her, which speaks highly to the character of you and your girlfriend... but in reality there is pressure for her to create this chemistry between herself and your girlfriend. You are trying not to fan the flames by making her feel guilty or the like, but realize that the pressure your wife is feeling is not imaginary.

A triad insists that all parties are involved with one another. If it isn't naturally happening, I strongly recommend you stop trying to force it to happen. Let it be a V ("vee"), if that's what the relationship organically wants to be.

I guess what I'm asking is if anyone has any suggestions or advice on dealing with the feeling of inadequacy in a relationship?

It's a worldview issue. We pick up these traditional social assumptions from our surroundings throughout our lives and it can be a real bitch to untie them. This idea that she should be good enough to sate your every need is a broken concept from the world of monogamy. Granted, some monogamous people are wise enough to disregard this particular tradition, but it sounds like your wife has it in her head.

Learning compersion and letting go of jealousy and envy entirely can be a long road. I suggest letting Google do some of the work for you. Google "developing compersion," "increasing self-esteem," "learning to be independent," etc. There is no easy answer, and she'll need to figure out what works for her.

I'm trying to be as supportive as I can, but because we have such radically different views on what a partner should get from a relationship, it's hard for me to entirely comprehend. Rose and I match up on a lot of these world views, and we're both trying to be there and reassure someone that we love and care about while trying to understand.

Which brings me to a question-- does your wife want you to solve this problem for her? Has she asked you to look into this for her?

 

[GalaGirl]

Perhaps this could help. Jealousy and core beliefs are addressed in it:

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/jealousy.html

Then page 5 & 6 for what to be doing about jealousy management.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

But before even going there, why is your wife participating in a polyship if she doesn't really want to be in it?

I wonder if this...

Mari says she feels no resentment about anything, but that it's just a difficult transition for her.

... is her nice way of saying "Aaaaah! I don't really want to be doing this, but I'm going to do it anyway because I am afraid to lose her!"

I'd call a time out and get to the bottom of that.

What makes it hard?

GG

 

[stillskies]

So your wife doesn't really want to be dating your girlfriend? That's what it sounds like to me. Why does she need to date your girlfriend? If she doesn't have feelings for her, why push it? Can your wife go out and find her own partner if she chooses?

She can do whatever she likes, and this has been expressed to her several times over. I was initially hesitant to even start this, because I didn't want to push her into it, but Mari and Rose are adults, and they both chose to enter into this on their own. Whether or not Mari really wants to date Rose is something that she's trying to figure out. And if she realizes that she doesn't want to, no harm, no foul. So, no, she doesn't have to date Rose. She can go out and find a partner of her own if she chooses to do so. But she doesn't want to.

Most FMF triads don't work.

Sorry for the lack of clarity on this: we're all women.

All the communication in the world will not make your wife feel something for your girlfriend if it's just not there.

Oh, I totally agree. And I'm not trying to force that at all. I just want to figure out how to provide reassurance to her, which I don't necessarily think is a triad-only problem.

Does she even want to be polyamorous?

It's not something she's ever considered. The few people she has known that have identified as polyamorous have completely ruined their relationships for a variety of reasons, so that's what her perception of poly is: engage in it and ruin everything you care about.

When two people meet, they either have chemistry or they don't, and hopefully there is no external pressure pushing them to force chemistry where it doesn't exist. When a couple tries to date the same person, there is an added issue of everyone needing to be interested in everyone else. It's hard enough to find a good balance between two people-- arbitrarily deciding that three people should be in to each other ups the stakes dramatically.

I agree. Either there is chemistry or there isn't. And there is chemistry between them, from what Mari has said. She just isn't sure if it's the kind of chemistry that will lead to her wanting to hop into bed with Rose. And if it isn't, that's fine.

Since your wife doesn't sound like she is polyamorous, have you discussed dating individually?

We have, and Mari seems like she'd be okay with it. And you're right; it's sort of what we're already doing. So maybe it's something I need to bring up with both of them and see how Rose feels about it.

You are trying not to fan the flames by making her feel guilty or the like, but realize that the pressure your wife is feeling is not imaginary.

Yeah. I understand that. I also understand that there isn't much that I can do outside of reassuring her when she needs it. As for fanning flames, I don't think it's an issue of trying to create chemistry, since it is there, but letting her work her thoughts out? She has a tendency to overthink things, and this is one of those things.

I keep telling her that she can walk away from it, that it's not difficult to end it with Rose for her, but she stubbornly says she wants to keep trying.

Which brings me to a question-- does your wife want you to solve this problem for her? Has she asked you to look into this for her?

She hasn't asked me to look into anything for her. I was mostly trying to figure out. And I'm realizing that I've probably misrepresented what I wanted to ask in the first place-- how to provide support to her and reassure her that she is not lacking in anything. This, I feel, would be the same situation as if we had entered into a vee.

Perhaps this could help.

Thanks! I've looked through those before, but maybe now that we're a little further into things and can sort of see how the dynamics are working, it might be a good idea to look at them again.

Mari says she's not jealous or anything. I believe her when she says that. I think it's a matter of her needing to work through her thoughts and issues, but I could be wrong.

Why is your wife participating in a polyship if she doesn't really want to be in it?

Her reasoning for participating, and this is what she's told both Rose and me, is that she'll never know if it could work unless she tries. So she's trying. And I don't think she's forcing a lot of things, but I do think that the change in our relationship configuration is bringing back a lot of insecurities and issues that she'd had when we first got together.

Is this her nice way of saying "Aaaaah! I don't really want to be doing this, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I am afraid to lose [her]!"

I'd call a time out and get to the bottom of that.

It's a possibility that I've thought about. She says that's not the case, and our relationship is solid and stable and good. And I constantly reassure her that I'm not going anywhere. But, again, she had this same problem when she and I first started dating, and it just took time for her to realize I wasn't going to up and leave. And that was when we were monogamous.

What makes it hard?

I'm assuming you're asking about what makes it hard for me to understand? That would be because she looks at things in terms of black and white, and I tend to see gray everywhere. It's a fundamental problem that we've had since day one of our relationship, but we tend to communicate well enough to at least get to a level of understanding.

In this case, though, she is having a hard time expressing herself about it because she has so many thoughts going through her head.

Hopefully this helps answer some questions... Also, it has made me realize that I need to better communicate what it is I'm asking.

 

[PolyinPractice]

My two cents

Quite a few people are criticizing the OP for the idea that she and her wife are "making" this other woman date both of them. It doesn't sound like that to me. It sounds like the OP and the girlfriend are dating, and the OP's wife is not excluded from this, and can spend time/cuddle/hold hands if she wants to.

It's like how I was with a partner before. He and I were the ones dating, but his wife was free to hang out with me as well, or both of us. I toyed with the idea of being affectionate with her. But I never once considered her to be my girlfriend.

Is there this idea in the poly world that if one half of an established couple is dating another, and the other half of the couple can also be in that other person's life, that that is a "triad," and that all three are "dating"?

 

[Marcus]

And you're right; it's sort of what we're already doing, so maybe it's something I need to bring up with both of them and see how Rose feels about that.

I think this will really help. Then there is no pressure at all for the two of them to hook up.

As far as reassurance, I think that as long as everything you do is genuine, that you are honest and kind (which sounds like what you are currently doing), that you're doing all you can. She could probably benefit from doing some independent research and a bit of therapy to reinforce a positive self image for herself - but unfortunately you can't do that for her.

Quite a few people criticizing the OP for the idea that she and her wife are "making" this other woman date both of them. It doesn't sound like that to me; it sounds like the OP and the girlfriend are dating, and the OP's wife is not excluded from this, and can spend time/cuddle/hold hands if they want to.

Who is criticizing? We're just having a conversation here.

The three of us have already agreed that if she can't, or if any of us feels like this is not going well, or for whatever reason we want to walk away from the threeway relationship, we can.

I misunderstood the original post, and this statement in particular, which led me to understand that they were working for a triad only.

It sounded to me that she was saying that if anyone didn't feel like it was working out that they could dissolve the relationship. Now that the OP has graciously explained a bit deeper, I know that this was just a misinterpretation on my part. What she was saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the idea of a triad is not fundamental to what is happening, and if that particular configuration isn't working, then they can all allow it to flow naturally (most likely into a V, which is basically where it is now).

Personally I think this is the perfect way to go about it.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thanks for more info. I wasn't sure where this was all at.

So....

• Your wife is WILLING but questioning her ABILITY to execute.
• She still wants to be in it to see if she is indeed ABLE or not, despite any discomfort along the way she might experience. She's prepared to risk that, but needs help in figuring HOW to manage those things.

Is that where it is parked at?

She could post here herself so it's not coming in through your filter. That could be a start.

If you are posting only about your angle in this, i.e., how to help her, well, you can't help her with something that you do not know and she cannot articulate. You are not a mind reader.

All you can do at this point is encourage her to try to articulate where's she's coming from, and reassure her that you are willing to go through this with her, and not jump ship just because it is challenging right now. You could ask some clarifying questions like, "How do you see yourself getting through this? If you had to order the obstacles, which is the most annoying? Which is the easiest to fix?"

Largely, this seems to be about problem-solving skills at this point.

She says that's not the case, and our relationship is solid and stable and good. And I constantly reassure her that I'm not going anywhere, but, again, she had this same problem when she and I had started dating. It took time for her to realize I wasn't going to up and leave, and that was when we were monogamous.

Have you lifted that up to her, reminded her? Maybe this just needs time to become the "new normal," and she can see that nothing horrible happened.

Is it the polymath thing? She's good with you on your tiers, but shaky on the polymath tiers where the GF appears?

A polyship is made of all the mini relationship tiers within it. For a triad to fly well, all the dyads within it must be healthy.

If what she needs is more reassurance from the gf, you reassuring her til you are blue in the face will not give her what she needs from the correct person she needs it from. Make sense?

The shared mission here seems to be "try to have a triad" but it is not clear if the shape is really a "triad" or a "V."

She is your wife. She knows that role and its expectations.
She is what to the other woman? A gf? A metamour? Both? What is the role and the expectations of that? Has that been clarified between them? You could encourage them to talk about that polymath tier and tell you what they conclude.

Since all seem agreeable to not have a triad, maybe you all start as a V, with you as the hinge. Later on, see if the other Vs are starting to happen naturally or not. Really, a triad is 3 Vs laid on top of each other, anyway. Start with one V, and then let the rest develop, if they are destined to develop that way. Don't force it.

Perhaps being clearer on the mission at THIS chunk of time could help people pull it together?

"We are open to other things growing, but for the first _____ months, we are trying to run a V with X as the hinge. We are / are not also trying to date other people at the same time." ​

I'm assuming you're asking about what makes it hard for me to understand? That would be because she looks at things in terms of black and white, and I tend to see gray everywhere. It's a fundamental problem that we've had since day one of our relationship, but we tend to communicate well enough to at least get to a level of understanding.

In this case, though, she is having a hard time expressing herself about it because she has so many thoughts going through her head.

Ok, that's part of the equation. What makes this hard for you right now.

What about the rest?

• What does WIFE say makes it hard for her?
  
  
  (Thoughts racing in her head. What sorts of thoughts? Poly hell thoughts? If those thoughts come up later, how will your polyship handle it?​
• What does GF say makes it hard for her?

You could finish identifying strengths, weaknesses, potential pitfalls or problem areas first, from each person's POV. Once you know those puzzle pieces, group them so you know who is doing what, who will be responsible for what. Then you are all pulling in the same direction to meet the shared goal, not paddling in all sorts of directions at different times and essentially getting in your own way.

• What do you need from YOURSELF to move this forward?
• What do you need from HER to move this forward?
• What do you need from the GF to help move this forward?
• What is needed from the GROUP?

• What does Wife need from HERSELF to help move this forward?
• What does Wife need from YOU to help move this forward?
• What does Wife need from the GF to help move this forward?
• What is needed from the GROUP to help her?

• What does GF need from herself to help move this forward?
• What does GF need from YOU to help move this forward?
• What does GF need from Wife to help move this forward?
• What is needed from the GROUP?

Break it down into bite-sized pieces, if taking it all in as one fell swoop is too much.

I hope these ideas makes sense for where conversations could go.

Good luck,
Galagirl

 

[PolyinPractice]

Who is criticizing? We're just having a conversation here.

Pardon, I did not mean criticize in a negative way. Merely a comment on previous posts such as "So your wife doesn't really want to be dating your girlfriend? That's what it sounds like to me. Why does she need to date your girlfriend? If she doesn't have feelings for her, why push it? Can your wife go out and find her own partner if she chooses?"

I thought t here was unnecessary assumption that just because the wife was involved and affectionate (hand holding, that sort of thing), it meant it had a to be a triad where all were dating and intimate. That's all.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Maybe chemistry isn't the right word?

My husband Maca knows from a day or two in if he's interested in a romance. On the other hand, I require months. I may feel chemistry, but that doesn't mean I can go full out.

Maybe it would be helpful for her to just be reminded that not rushing her natural tendencies is totally ok and actually preferable.

Sometimes when someone says "It's ok," I hear, "I wish you would hurry up, but I love you so I'm trying to be patient."

Maybe she would benefit from being told, "You know, I really prefer that you go as slow as need to. That way, I won't feel like I'm pressuring you either, and we will all know that whatever happens is because you are really ready for it."

Sometimes our internal and unconscious minds really screw with what we hear.

It might help to alter the form of what you are saying to her (that it's ok if she isn't ok with it) to you preferring she take the time to really know where she's at, and that it's not just okay, but that it will actually be best for you (and everyone) if she just allows herself to naturally mosey along until she knows what she wants.

Just a different perspective.

 

[Marcus]

"So your wife doesn't really want to be dating your girlfriend? That's what it sounds like to me. Why does she need to date your girlfriend? If she doesn't have feelings for her, why push it? Can your wife go out and find her own partner if she chooses?"

Those are perfectly fair questions and conclusions based on the original post, which prompted a deeper description from the OP. Thanks to these questions and the format in which they were presented, we have now discovered more about the OP and her situation.

So, thank you, BSP83. Don't change a thing.

 

[stillskies]

Quite a few people criticizing the OP for the idea that she and her wife are "making" this other woman date both of them.

Oh, I don't feel that way at all. From rereading my original post, I could definitely see where people could get that impression, but that's just because I didn't articulate myself as well as I ought have.

What she was saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the idea of a triad is not fundamental to what is happening, and if that particular configuration isn't working, then they can all allow it to flow naturally (most likely into a V, which is basically where it is now).

Yup. That's pretty much what I was saying. I'm looking at it from the perspective of three separate relationships, but since they all interconnect, it looks like a triad. But there isn't anything or anyone saying that it has to be a triad. If it goes that way, then great. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. It's going to go where it needs to go, not where any particular person wants it to go.

• She's WILLING but questioning her ABILITY to execute.
• She still wants to be in it to see if she is indeed ABLE, or not, despite any discomfort along the way she might experience. She's prepared to risk that, but needs help in figuring HOW to manage those things.

Yes to both. She isn't sure if she'll be able to have a relationship outside of me, but she's willing and wanting to see if she can before coming to a conclusion. She's trying to deal with her discomfort in the ways she knows how, which seem to either work or not work, depending on how far from her comfort zone she is.

Have you lifted that up to her? Reminded her? Maybe this just needs time to become the "new normal" and she can see that nothing horrible happened?

I have, and yes, it is a matter of waiting for her to see that nothing is going to change how she and I are. I think it's also a matter of her seeing that not every relationship that ends up being a poly relationship is going to end with everyone hating each other and no one talking.

Is it the polymath thing?

I've never heard of polymath. I'll take a look at it. And the way of breaking up questions is a good idea, as well. I'll have to try putting it in those kinds of terms. It might be easier to understand if we break things out into chunks rather than try to discuss everything at once and not being entirely clear on what is being asked.

If what she needs is more reassurance from the GF, you reassuring til you are blue in the face is not giving her what she needs from the correct person she needs it from. Make sense?

Yup, makes perfect sense. And I know that Rose tries to reassure her, as well, so she is getting it from both sides. But I don't know if Rose is reassuring Mari as often as she needs it. Definitely something to bring up with them.

She is what to the other woman? A gf? A metamour? Both? What are the roles and expectations of those? Has that been clarified between them? You could encourage them to talk about that polymath tier and tell you what they conclude.

To Rose, Mari is a metamour and something else. They haven't put a label to define their relationship yet, as they're both still feeling each other out. I'm not even entirely sure that I like using labels, but girlfriend seems to work, and it's the label that I'm comfortable with. I tend to use it as a blanket statement between the three of us, and neither of them disagree with its use. Mari just doesn't feel like that's something she wants to do yet. (Defining it, just in case I'm unclear.)

• What does WIFE say makes it hard for her?
  
  
  (Thoughts racing in her head. What sorts of thoughts? Poly hell thoughts? If those thoughts come up later, how will your polyship handle it?​
• What does GF say makes it hard for her?

What makes it hard for Mari is her lack of self-esteem regarding relationships. And her thoughts tend to be a myriad of "Can I do this?" and "What if I screw this up with both of them?" I'll have to read about poly hell, because I'm not entirely sure what that is.

Rose's difficulties have to do with her having a hard time trusting people and letting them get close to her because of a lot of really messed-up stuff in her past. She's coping with the urge to pull away and distance herself most of the time.

Maca knows from a day or two in if he's interested in a romance. On the other hand, I require months. I may feel chemistry, but that doesn't mean I can go full out.

Mari is similar to you. It can take her a while to figure out if she's interested in a romance with someone, even if there is some chemistry there. She also may take a while to recognize that there is chemistry. It really just depends on the situation.

It might help to alter the form of what you are saying to her (that it's okay if she isn't okay with it) to you preferring she take the time to really know where she's at, and that it's not just okay, but that it will actually be best for you (and everyone) if she just allows herself to naturally mosey along until she knows what she wants...

That's a good idea. I feel like lately I've become a broken record in how I offer and give reassurance, so maybe it is a matter of needing to change it up. Both Rose and I are very supportive of Mari taking as much time as she needs to figure things out.

Thanks, everyone! ♥

 

[BSP83]

Sorry for the lack of clarity on this: we're all women.

So sorry for the confusion.

Quite a few people criticizing the OP for the idea that she and her wife are "making" this other woman date both of them. It doesn't sound like that to me; it sounds like the OP and the girlfriend are dating....and the OP's wife is not excluded from this, and can spend time/cuddle/hold hands if they like.

I was not criticizing at all, just asking questions for clarification. I wasn't saying anyone was "making" anyone do anything.

Those are perfectly fair questions and conclusions based on the original post, which prompted a deeper description from the OP. Thanks to these questions and the format in which they were presented we have now discovered more about the OP and her situation.

So thank you, BSP83. Don't change a thing.

Thanks, Marcus.

I wish you all the best, StillSkies. I hope that you are all able to find a configuration that works for all of you.

 

[stillskies]

Thanks, BSP! I hope it works out, as well. Everyone here has definitely given me a lot to think about and some really good questions that I need to bring up with M and R. ♥