Privacy concerns

[Piroska]

...Yes, it's a public board and anyone in the world can read my stuff. But, I still felt slightly violated...

I understand he feels that way. I guess I don't, because I assume people are going to read things on public profiles. I am trying to see it from his point of view.

This social networking stuff is complicated! We all have to understand how it works and figure out our own comfort levels, and find out our partners' comfort levels. I feel bad your bf is ready to dump you over it. Seems rather impatient of him.

I think it is rather impatient also, not what I expected. I guess I just have to be patient and see what happens.

 

[london]

This is really all quite straightforward. He simply thinks that she snoopy. She doesn't ask questions. She does Google searches. Now, he is hypersensitive to her snooping, and finds it intrusive and somewhat dishonest. It isn't the fact that he doesn't want pictures of his kids on the Internet, he just doesn't want his girlfriend to go online searching for them. It's weird. Why not just ask?

 

[Piroska]

Be more patient. Think it all the way out, less impulsive.

A dom only exists at the consent of the sub.
If you have entered into D/s agreements with him

• without thinking things out all the way for yourself
• without listing what your dealbreakers are
• without coming to agreement on how to call the dom into account when needed without it messing up your scene (if you scene) or your arrangements (if this is a 24/7 deal)

...then you seem to have given power over you willy-nilly to someone without looking out for your own best interests. You could expect more from yourself. There could be other things you neglected to cover also.

We did go over dealbreakers, his and mine, and I have thought through things. I know what I want (though it is not exactly what he wants, we considered it similar enough to move forwards and see how it went); we did not previously discuss how to call him into account specifically, though in a recent conversation since all this, he clarified that if I had any issues with him I was to bring them to his attention (respectfully, calmly, without throwing a temper tantrum) so they could be dealt with.

A part of my issue comes from me. The more I try to plan out things and make relationships work the way I want them to, the less likely it is that they actually work that way. So I've been trying the 'let's see what happens' thing. What I haven't found is a balance between being clear about boundaries, desires, etc., and not over-planning or trying to put the relationship in a box. Part of the issue comes from him. I've mentioned elsewhere that he's very very new at D/s. He came at it from a kinky/switch/play direction, and because I've never had a relationship with a man that wasn't D/s in some manner (and usually more of a 24/7 deal), I sort of fell into acting subbie with him, and he has a bit more dominant tendencies than he thinks. When it works, it is GREAT, but, times like this, not so much.

The last time we talked, he decided he doesn't want to do D/s anymore. So I guess it's a moot point.

Which comes back to the original question: why do you agree to things that don't serve you well?

What could you do differently to better look out for your long-term well-being? (NOT the relationship at your expense.)

Having realized you skipped a crucial bit?

• You could revise your D/s agreements with him to include how to call him into account. Have some boundaries of your own.

The shared agreement is "He will respect your boundaries and you will respect his boundaries."

This is a SHARED agreement, not just a "for you" deal. You know that, right? Because a dom only exists at the consent of the sub.

How about "When in doubt, err on the side of caution and safety for my own continued well-being"?

I mean this kindly: you could get into bigger trouble than looking at some pix online! You lack self-discipline, seem impulsive, get yourself into things. He seems to lack self-discipline and gets more emotional than this picture hoohah seems to merit. All he would need to do is just adjust his own privacy settings online... yet he won't.

I'm wondering if London has an accurate picture of him; that he doesn't actually care about the privacy, more cares that
I accessed his public information without asking.

The other point is that I do think he and I might benefit from stepping back from the relationship altogether for a little while, and just being friendly, but I am unwilling to risk losing him entirely at this time. I love him; he loves me; but he has this pride thing where if the relationship ends for whatever reason, he will entirely cut off contact, with the sole exception of exes with whom he has children. (So much so that the ex with his youngest child who he broke up with before they knew she was pregnant, took 19 months to track him down.) I am not willing to risk losing him 100% at this time.

It's not that I have low self esteem or something. I have enough other suitors to more than take up the lack, if I needed. It's that I actually really care about him, and don't want to lose him, unless it turns out that not being with me is less harmful to him than being with me.

I wonder if he's the "You can't tell me what to do!" type? That makes him a stellar dom HOW?

At best? He's a sloppy dom and mad that he's not as cool at it as he thought.

At worst? You are in the hands of a sloppy dom and you can't know he won't hurt you intentionally or thoughtlessly. He's sloppy, he loses his temper over minor shit and rails at you at too high a volume.

He's not a stellar dom. But I love him and want to serve him; I want to show him places he can learn to improve. I am not a stellar sub either, so I feel that I can't judge too harshly here; I want to improve for him also.

You really want some of that served up when you are in a vulnerable state and he loses his cool? Ack. He can't handle his temper over pix he could block access to, but you are going to believe he can handle himself in top-space?

Please tread very carefully... get clear on your boundaries and determine if this is a player you can be safe with.

He ended the D/s side of the relationship, is still considering whether to end the entirety of the relationship.

You may WANT to play with him emotionally, but what does your health and well-being need to be safe?

I am not sure. I am taking steps backwards as well, because at the least, I know I cannot endure the drama and heartache that was happening for a few days. I am keeping lines of communication open, if he wishes to speak to me, but it's been a few days. We'll see.

 

[Piroska]

This is really all quite straightforward. He simply thinks that she snoopy. She doesn't ask questions, she does google searches. Now he is hypersensitive to her snooping and finds it intrusive and somewhat dishonest. It isn't the fact that he doesn't want pictures of his kids on the Internet, he just doesn't want his girlfriend to go online searching for them. It's weird. Why not just ask?

Putting aside that I thought I did ask previously if he had other social media profiles (he contends that I didn't, I'm not sure) I don't find someone doing a google search on someone intrusive or dishonest. I thank you for pointing it out; because you're helping me understand his perspective. He DOES see it as intrusive, dishonest and weird.

I don't understand how I was completely at fault for stumbling on the photos his ex posted (and you agreed with me there).

I think the last thing you did was totally innocent and not you snooping.

I did ask; I do ask, and since the gray area was clarified from the OKCupid profile debacle, I have been very careful to not go looking. I am trying not to be snoopy. It's not that I don't want to ask; I want very much to be very close to him and know all about him, so I do ask him questions all the time.

I also contend that in the beginning of the relationship, considering that he was someone I met off of Fetlife (i.e., social media, with no in-person friends in common), that I was in the right to want to protect myself by getting as much information about him as possible. He did know at the time that I was doing those searches; he has since refused to give me certain bits of information for the very reason that he did not want me tempted to search for more detail in specific areas of his life.

As of now? He considers me as having impinged on a dealbreaker, so yes, it is that important to him. I accept it, I'm willing to work inside his boundaries, I would like to move forward. But he got exasperated that I can't obey every single thing he orders instantly, perfectly.

A lot of the boundaries and rules he has have to do with past pain. I spent some time talking to a friend in the lifestyle; she doesn't know his full history, just a very brief outline. Her take was that he was over-reacting due to past pain/betrayal, and that if I wanted to stay I needed to give him a lot of space to work through it and come to where he can see I'm not the same as some of his exes, or other family members, who really did a number on him.

I had been spending a lot of energy thinking his reaction was not fair, and disproportionate, but she made me think that maybe it is disproportionate, but maybe there's a reason for it. She did emphasize that I need to make sure I'm not putting myself in a place where I could get harmed, like GalaGirl pointed out; but that maybe I could be a little more understanding about his perspective too.

 

[london]

Yes, from his thread I'd definitely say he's hypersensitive to it for some reason.

 

[Natja]

I had something similar happen with my, then rather new, bf. He knew I was on here, polyamory.com, and without telling me, joined the board and did nothing but read my posts, including my blog. I am not sure how much he read, but after a couple weeks, he told me he'd been reading my posts here.

I was really embarrassed because my blog had been full of my NRE gushing about him.

I had the same thing happen, except it was a private forum, my partner at the time was made a moderator and got access to it and proceeded to read all the private things I wrote. I was horrified.

 

[Natja]

As of now, he considers me as having impinged on a dealbreaker, so yes, it is that important to him. I accept it, I'm willing to work inside his boundaries, I would like to move forward. But he got exasperated that I can't obey every single thing he orders instantly, perfectly.

............ but that maybe I could be a little more understanding about his perspective too.

Sorry, to me, he just sounds like a big sad old drama queen. You are letting him get away with acting that badly because you like him. But all that drama? It's just not very sexy, is it?

 

[GalaGirl]

He ended the D/s side of the relationship... is still considering whether to end the entire relationship.

Whether he is doing this from a healthy angle, or it's the start of the kiss-off because you finally put some boundaries down and clarified that you expect to be able to hold him accountable, nobody online can tell. You people are there. You could be alert for his intent/motivations either way.

You may WANT to play with him emotionally, but what do you need to be safe?

I am not sure. I am taking steps backwards as well, because at the least, I know I cannot endure the drama and heartache that was happening for a few days. I am keeping lines of communication open, if he wishes to speak to me, but it's been a few days. We'll see.

I suggest you be OK without him and his drama. Respect your own limits of tolerance. Let me copy what you wrote again:

I know I cannot endure the drama and heartache that was happening for a few days.

The only way for you to not endure drama is to stay away from him.

All this is reasonable --

I also contend that in the beginning of the relationship, considering that he was someone I met off of Fetlife (i.e., social media, with no in-person friends in common), that I was in the right to want to protect myself by getting as much information about him as possible. He did know at the time that I was doing those searches; he has since refused to give me certain bits of information for the very reason that he did not want me tempted to search for more detail in specific areas of his life.

You took up with a stranger for D/s play (with no vetting from close friends) who may put your well-being at risk. Of course you want to know more about him! He could understand that and lay out it in the front window rather than blocking communication, because a Dom exists only at the consent of the sub.

If you risk being with him when he's not willing to be straight up and disclose to you, he's all over the place emotionally, lacks logic, and/or he brings out bad sides of you, I'm sorry, but he's not a healthy person for you to be around.

The internet has nothing to do with his willingness to disclose to you. That's just how/where he could share some info. The point is that he DOESN'T want to disclose in any way, but still wants to dom you. Meh. You can do D/s with less drama-llama people, have a good time, and not be dealing in this craziness.

Tread carefully,
Galagirl

 

[opalescent]

Winking out of existence?

A dom only exists at the consent of the sub.

I think GG and others have given you fine advice. I have nothing to add on that.

But I have to disagree with GalaGirl's statement here. I get the intent behind it - I think. I read that as meaning a D/s relationship only exists as long as the sub wants it to. While this is true, I would amend it to saying that a D/s relationship exists only as long as both partners want it to. This is the ironically fundamentally egalitarian underpinning of D/s relationships.

But the wording makes it seem like the dom winks out of existence the minute the sub withdraws consent. A dominant person without a sub is still a dominant. They just don't have a D/s relationship at the moment. A sub without a dominant is still a sub, just currently unpartnered.

Nitpicking over!

 

[GalaGirl]

I would amend it to say that a D/s relationship exists only as long as both partners want it to.

Yes.

But the wording makes it seem like the dom winks out of existence the minute the sub withdraws consent

I see that. Thanks. I meant the healthy D/s relationship in this situation winks out.

 

[IndieSolo]

You never have an expectation of privacy when on the web. Someone can always find something.

So true. Years ago, I once sold some lingerie on eBay (full slips and half-slips that I'd never worn) and noticed that the winning bidder had bought a ton of women's underwear in large and plus sizes. Out of curiosity, I googled their email address and quite easily discovered conversations from other forums and found out that my buyer of frilly undergarments was a rather burly guy with an officer's rank in the US Army. I even found his picture in just a few steps. I wrote to him and told him he should change his user name and get a new email to use just on eBay if he wanted to keep his lingerie-buying private. He never replied. I then set all my lingerie auctions to private so no one could see the bidders' emails. I think they do that automatically for all of them now.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

Simple solution (for you): do not link your profiles to his if you don't like his level of privacy. You cannot control him, or even make him consider what his level of privacy is, if he is not interested. You're acting like a wife, even though I take it you are not. Protect yourself and limit his access to you, if you feel you need to do so.

Simple solution (for him): accept that googling is something everyone does, especially people in relationships, but also for work. Being not so private on the net enables others to find, surprise! information on the net. Him being on different sites with the same name will make it a lot easier for people to find him. It is like agreeing to be listed in the phone book and still being angry that people are able to contact you.

I think the both of you need to work on communication before becoming so easily pissed about simple matters. I mean, it is fair enough to get pissed, but you believe in your own moods like the Bible. Stop trying to be right, start wanting to make a connection. In every relationship, one has to be more humble than one originally wished in order to make it work.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

You act like a wife, even though I take it you are not.

This sentence caught my eye. What does it mean to "act like a wife"? Just curious. I, myself, am a wife. I never got an "operator's manual" telling me how to act, which is probably good. It would have just pissed me off. I don't respond well to people telling me what to do.

I guess I've just been winging it for the last 17 years.

I also never got a guidebook telling me how to "act like a girlfriend." Maybe I am doing THAT wrong too!

 

[Natja]

What does it mean to "act like a wife"? Just curious. I, myself, am a wife. I never got an "operator's manual" telling me how to act. Guess I've just been winging it for the last 17 years. I also never got a guidebook telling me how to "act like a girlfriend." Maybe I am doing THAT wrong too!

I think it is a sub-section of the larger manual 'How to act like a woman.'

 

[Norwegianpoly]

Why on earth is he against you finding stuff about him, his children, and his ex-wife on internet? It sounds like he's got a secret agenda. You are not stealing his passwords, or looking into his phone, or his diary, or anything else that would be regarded by most people as trespassing privacy.

I agree that it is better to ask him than to search online. However, he does not seem to be offering even the slightest information willingly, and he is very resentful towards what seem to me as healthy curiosity, even partially care towards him.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

What does it mean to "act like a wife"?

Well, I just meant that it is more appropriate to be "demanding" when you have known each other a long long time, and really know each other's personality, and the issues between you. Better yet, to just be nice to each other and talk civilized yet honest about things. Still, in most cases, it's once in a while necessary to use ultimatums and vetoes. I think, as a wife, I have a right to do that. Of course, you can always decide that a new person should have such rights. But that needs to be actively negotiated. Hopefully one will negotiate anyway.

But I guess you might know what I mean. Putting in the years gives you something to expect.

 

[Natja]

I meant that it is more appropriate to be "demanding" when you have known each other a long long time and really know each other's personality and the issues between you. Better yet, to just be nice to each other and talk civilized yet honest about things. Still, it's once in a while necessary to use ultimatums and vetoes. I think as a wife I have a right to do that. Of course, you can always decide that a new person should have such rights... I guess you might know what I mean. Putting in the years gives you something to expect).

Forgive me, but that is a weak excuse.

First, not everyone goes in for the hierarchal 'I am the wife so I have the right to be demanding' schtick.
Secondly, people, including secondaries, have the right to demand certain things, including not having their health and welfare be put at risk, not being screamed at and/or threatened over seeing something freely available, etc.

Your comment about her obviously not being a wife was disparaging. No use, no point in making things worse by using a piss-poor excuse.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

What group is the Fet discussion in? I would like to see his point of view. My mum is a bit like that. She will say, "I needed a lighter, and even though there was no reason to think one would be in that box under your bed, I checked anyway, and I saw some private stuff of yours." She just doesn't get it.

I see his point of view, too. Still, he seems incredibly naive and seems to not be able to take care of himself. I often find that with private people! Never understood why that is. Why not just put your stuff somewhere that can be locked and kept out of reach? I don't put my diaries on the dining room table, hoping that none of my friends will read them.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

Forgive me, but that is a weak excuse. Not everyone goes in for the hierarchal 'I am the wife, so I have rights to be demanding' schtick. Secondaries have the right to demand certain things, including not having their health and welfare be put at risk, not being screamed at and/or threatened over seeing something freely available etc.

Your comment about her obviously not being a wife was disparaging. No point in making things worse by using a piss-poor excuse.

I was making a joke of her acting like an enraged wife, which seemed strange so soon into the relationship. I don't believe anyone should be demanding. I think one should care for oneself and try to be nice to others. Anyway, I was not referring to a hierarchy of people, but of time/commitment.

I also said, in the very same paragraph, she can protect herself quite simply by refusing to link herself up to anyone that she considers to lack the kind of privacy she prefers.

My comment about her not being the wife, by the way, also correlates to him not being her husband. He doesn't have not long-standing trust to build on with her. So, when he treats her unconsiderately, she will have less reason to stay with him than would a wife, who could afford to be more patient, because the past has given her reasons to believe he will make up for it later

Behaving like a wife (or a husband) is a state of mind one should not embark, not in new relationships. There one should be always kind and always expect kindness as a rule, as well as protect oneself. There are difficult things to come in a relationship. You don't want to start out by not being able to find workable compromises even over petty things.

 

[Natja]

Ah ok, I think that is one of those lost in translation jokes!