Puzzled???

[tnt]

In our unending search for that special lady with whom we would like to share our lives, hubby and I have noticed a pattern.
It disturbs and confuses me.
Over the years we have gotten to know many women. Only a couple of them have resulted in any kind of 'physical' relationship. Sadly, nothing ever lasting.
We are always very open with women about who we are, etc.
We are used to the usual respnses: "you guys are weird", "how can you do that", and so on.
But recently I have noticed a patern starting to develop. The single ladies we meet, are usually very uncomfortable discussing a potential relationship [either a short term physical or long term emotional/physical] and run away as fast as they can, lol!
On the other hand, more and more of the married women we know are expressing interest.
Now, we do have our limits and attached [married, boyfriend, etc.] women have always been off the table. But these days it seems they are "all over" the idea.
It is very frustrating for us. While some of these women would otherwise be a perfect match for us, they are not an option.
I guess I'm just wondering: "What's wrong with this picture?"

 

[Marcus]

In our unending search for that special lady with whom we would like to share our lives, hubby and I have noticed a pattern.
It disturbes and confuses me.

Trials and tribulations of the Unicorn Hunter.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Have you tried to consider it from the other persepective?
I know that for me, if I am finding myself stuck in a pattern, it's helpful to consider the opposite side in order to figure out where the missing piece is in my perspective.
This is also how scientific research is done, attempt to falsify what you believe.

So-from the other perspective; If I were a single woman (which I'm not-but if I was):

What is it that you have to offer that is POSITIVE TO ME & what about what you are offering is NEGATIVE to me?

 

[alibabe_muse]

Honestly, do you, OP, believe any single female is willing to give up her autonomy to be in a relationship with a couple? That she has to be attracted to both of you? That she has to fall in love with both of you? That she has to live her life according to how you believe she should?

Would you want that for yourself? I was invited into a triad...they didn't get that I am not leaving my husband or kids to be a part of their life. Just not for me and I'm married.

 

[tnt]

I have tried to look at it from their prespective [at least I think I have]. I understand that the whole notion is kind of scary. You know the old "fear of the unknown". But these women [the single ones] I'm referring to are often flirty and let us know that they are 'attracted' to us but it's just 'not their cup of tea'.
I/we are never pushy about this kind of thing. If someone's just not into it we're cool with that. I would never want anyone to do anything they were not 100% comfortable with.
I'm not trying to say here that anyone is either right or wrong just that it is confusing getting so many mixed signals.
We all have both possitive and negative attributes to offer to a relationship. Not one of us is perfect. And we do try to consider both, for ourselves as well as others. That's why communication is key.
Maybe I'm not expressing myself very clearly. Sometimes it is difficult to express ones thoughts through text. I am sometimes terrible at putting my thoughts on paper, lol .

 

[IndieSolo]

What's wrong with the picture, as I see it, is that you refuse to date or get to know women who aren't single - even though you admit they seem perfect for you both. Why can't you get involved with someone who has someone else? Each of you already has someone else.

The other glaring thing that is tripping you up in meeting compatible women is that you only want to date as a couple. Try dating separately and you will likely have more success. Most single women with a healthy sense of self-esteem would not want to be an add-on to a couple with a Couple Plus One mentality.

 

[tnt]

Honestly, do you, OP, believe any single female is willing to give up her autonomy to be in a relationship with a couple? That she has to be attracted to both of you? That she has to fall in love with both of you? That she has to live her life according to how you believe she should?

Would you want that for yourself? I was invited into a triad...they didn't get that I am not leaving my husband or kids to be a part of their life. Just not for me and I'm married.

I'm not sure I completely understand?
Of course if a woman was going to join inour life she would be attracted to both of us and love both of us, just as she would be loved by both of us.
If I were in her situation I would need to be attracted to and care for all involved.
As for her "living her life according to how I believe she should". I don't expect that from anyone.
I am not looking for someone for just myself. I am not looking for someone for just my spouse. I am in search of someone for us. We always have shared everything in our lives. Why should we stop now?
I don't want to upset anyone here. I'm just trying lo understand and I truly appreciate all the input.
I totally get wwhat you're saying alibabe, about the couple who invited you to a triad. That is the point I was trying to make in my initial post. That is exactly why married women have never been an option, even though they have offered. It was always in the context that "as long as on one knows".
Well that's not how we live our lives. I try not to be a judgmental person but there are certain things I just consider 'wrong' and that would be one of them!

 

[tnt]

What's wrong with the picture, as I see it, is that you refuse to date or get to know women who aren't single - even though you admit they seem perfect for you both. Why can't you get involved with someone who has someone else? Each of you already has someone else.

The other glaring thing that is tripping you up in meeting compatible women is that you only want to date as a couple. Try dating separately and you will likely have more success. Most single women with a healthy sense of self-esteem would not want to be an add-on to a couple with a Couple Plus One mentality.

The only reason I mentioned these particular married women, is that their husbands would NOT be okay with it. It would be in secret and I/we are not okay with that. We do know these women very well, they are good friends and I would like to keep it that way.
I would never do anything to hurt their relationship with their husband and family.
Acutally we have been talking about and trying to meet others on our own.
The thing here is when they find out hubby is married they back way off. When he tells them I'm okay with it, they don't blieve him. He's even offered to have them meet me just for verification purposes *wink*.
Of course why would they? They assume he's just handing them a line to get what he wants, lol.
I'm not putting anyone down for believing what they believe, I'm just saying: "sheesh, it's complicated"!
On an additional note, and it's just an observation, I seem to see several couples on here looking for women to join them. I don't see it as so uncommon, but maybe either they know somewthing I don't or they're not having any better luck, but I guess that's why we're all here, right?

 

[Marcus]

On an additional note, and it's just an observation, I seem to see several couples on here looking for women to join them. I don't see it as so uncommon, but maybe either they know somewthing I don't or they're not having any better luck, but I guess that's why we're all here, right?

You are certainly right about this part. The "couple seeking hot bi-babe to share" seems to be extremely common.

The US is a predominantly monogamous society (there are apparently poly friendly pockets out there but you have to find them) so the prospect of going out and meeting a unicorn to add to your marriage will likely be met with skepticism.

This is a common difficulty for all non-traditional dating desires (including those of us who are not unicorn hunting). "How do I find like minded people?" is an important and unanswered question for many of us.

 

[PolyinPractice]

It's very judgemental to assume all attached women want to hide other relationships from their significant others. Isn't your wife a contradiction to that assumptIon?

 

[Dagferi]

Couple Privilege... google it.

Why do you assume that married women who are open to dating others are hiding it from their spouse?

I have never hid Murf's existence to Butch or vice versa. Butch isn't hiding my existence to his potential partner. Hell I told him today to have Ally text me so she could feel secure in what Butch has told her regarding our relationship is the truth.

BTW... Yes you see a lot a ads for couples looking for a third. Doesn't mean they are successful.

 

[Eclipse]

Even though I am in a triad with me and my wife's unicorn, It still doesn't stop me from rolling my eyes and giving a derisive snort every time I see someone here or on a number of other sites putting an ad out for "a young, single attractive female to have a relationship with us!" To me, you are doing things in reverse.

Our triad just happened. There was never any real intention. I had a very good female friend that I brought home and introduced to my wife. The three of us started hanging out together. At first it was a night every other week, then it was every week, then a couple times a week. Soon she was spending weekends at our house. Our guest room stopped being a guest room and became her room. I can't even point to the exact time when we stopped being a couple plus one and turned into a triad. It just happened. Also note that we didn't even have sex together until waaaaay into this process. We were a totally platonic triad for a while before we because comfortable enough to take that next step.

Too many unicorn hunters want it all and they want it right now, they don't understand that, like any other relationship, bringing a third into their life is a slow and deliberate process.

 

[sweetersong]

Apparently two people here can't even read. The original poster said she knows these women and their husbands. No assumptions involved.

Back to the original question. I think most triads develop from an existing poly v , either open or closed so maybe consider dating separately and see what happens but don't go into each relationship expecting it.

 

[IndieSolo]

Now, we do have our limits and attached [married, boyfriend, etc.] women have always been off the table.

So, you don't want to even consider any women who are in another relationship, whether it is a spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend, correct?

. . . married women have never been an option, even though they have offered. It was always in the context that "as long as on one knows"

The only reason I mentioned these particular married women, is that their husbands would NOT be okay with it. It would be in secret and I/we are not okay with that. We do know these women very well, they are good friends and I would like to keep it that way.
I would never do anything to hurt their relationship with their husband and family.

Well, of course, you don't want to be involved with someone who is lying and cheating on their husband. I applaud your ethics in avoiding that kind of situation.

However, you did say that any woman who is attached is "off the table." It seems you came to that agreement before being approached by your married women friends. So, even if you met someone who got along great with you both, is attracted to you both, had the knowledge and consent of her other partner(s), and is open to dating you both, it seems that you are saying you would turn her down - because she isn't single. Why?

It seems that you and your husband want a closed triad and expect it be exclusive from the start. This is always one of the main sticking points for most people who will call you unicorn hunters (because you want something mythical and impossible). In any dating situation, whether monogamous or polyamorous, exclusivity is not expected from the get-go. There is always a period of getting to know one another before saying, "let's be exclusive." Agreeing to exclusivity is almost always a BIG STEP to take in any relationship.

If you want someone who is single so she will be devoted and committed only to you and your hubs - is it that you want someone to move in with you right away? If you want to skip the dating and getting to know you phase, and jump right into threesomes and cohabitation, I'm afraid you will probably either attract women who want sex only, or are willing to fuck you both for a rent-free place to live, some even when they're not bisexual. This is a heartbreaking story of a triad that couldn't work - and it started with unicorn hunting: Mom, Where are we going? Crazy dear.

I don't understand why they have to be single when you and your husband are not. The Couple Plus One attitude creates a power imbalance. Here is a good discussion thread to read about that: Added to, Joining In

And here is one perspective from another member here, who really is turned on by dating couples. Here, she explains why she would not be interested in what you are seeking:

I'm a bi female who's not in a primary relationship. A former aspring unicorn myself, actually (couples are hot!). I've been poly since I was a teenager, and have read a TON of individual accounts of poly escapades. And I would run, not walk, away from your proposition. I'll explain.

You don't want to date separately. So, if I'm involved with one of you I must be involved with the other. Yet, many new relationships don't work out in the long run. Some do, of course! If I started a new relationship with both of you, maybe we'd get lucky and one of those relationships would turn into an incredibly important love affair. Something that's imprints itself powerfully on my heart and soul.

But wait -- that doesn't happen often. So the chances that it would happen with both of you are very low. Maybe I wouldn't end up feeling much chemistry with the other one of you at all actually. Maybe I feel downright uncomfortable saying lovey things, or being physical, with the other one of you. But you don't want to date separately.

So now, in order to be with the new love of my life, I also have to try to force a connection with this other person who may be perfectly fine as a friend but isn't my cup of tea as a partner. What a weird, painful, and downright terrible situation I'm now in! If I try to break up with the person I'm not into, our triad is now broken in your eyes. It's not your ideal any more. You're disillusioned with it, or maybe just with me, because you had a goal, a vision, and it "failed". Am I allowed to date anyone new, now that I'm only with one of you? Can the other half of the couple even stand me being around, or is their heart too broken to be able to deal with my presence in the life of their partner? Am I now alone, without either of you, just for being honest, just for the sin of not falling in love twice over? At the very least, if I've moved in, I probably now have to move out. My life, on an emotional level and perhaps a practical level, is now in shambles.

Of course, it could easily happen the other way around. Maybe I DO fall head over heels for both of you... and for a while you think you're both in love with me too! Bliss! But one of you realizes you're not in love after all... you were in love with the idea of me, with the role I was going to play, the niche I was going to fill... but in reality we just don't click. And now we're in just as bad of a pickle. Do you give up your triad-ideal? Or do you kick me to the curb and go looking for the next hot bi babe? Will that possibility be looming over my head the entire time we're together?

The above scenarios are just touching on the main problem with the triad-or-nothing approach. There are a legion of other issues, mainly having to do with power imbalance. For instance, this is supposed to be a closed triad. Let's say the three of us get together, but then an old flame wants to come back into my life, or a new friend wants to be more. You two have the wonderful reassurance and security of the settled comfortable love of your preexisting relationship, plus the terribly exciting, if scary, new love with me. You two got the choice to open up to adding another relationship to your lives when you felt ready. I only get the scary, exciting, new love. I'm not allowed to have a pre-existing partner, and I'm not allowed to follow up on any new opportunities, not allowed to make that choice for myself the way you two did for you.

You have a life together already. It wasn't built for me, for my preferences, habits or hobbies. It was built for the two of you, and you've probably already done a great deal of compromising to make things work where you two differ. Now, on top of that, you're trying to fit me into that carefully-balanced dyad life, trying to wedge me into a space that you are opening up (let's not even get into the fact that there's no option here for YOU to enter a space I've made in MY life, it's instead all about me joining you). It will almost certainly take a LONG time to make the adjustments that will make it truly work for me. It will probably take a very long time for it to feel like my life equally, it may well never. I may never "catch up" to the relationship you two have. It will all feel ideal and equal and perfect, because it was built for you. It won't feel that way to me, I will feel distinctly like the newcomer, the outsider, for a long time. But I'm not allowed to have anyone else. Not allowed to love just one of you either. Is this a scenario where I'm likely to feel natural and comfortable, or where I'm likely to feel trapped?

I could go on, but maybe that's enough for you to see why this wouldn't be attractive to me, and why I would warn any potential unicorn not to consider your offer? NOT because you're bad people. But because I think the structure you're trying to form is an inherently fragile, flawed, and disaster-prone one. Not because triads can't work! But because if a closed triad is your ONLY acceptable outcome, I am the one who is going to suffer, almost inevitably.

You may find a woman who takes you up on your offer. Chances are good she'll be younger, a bit naive, maybe not too independent, because that's the sort of person who is more likely not to see the disadvantages for them that are inherent in this. And, alas, her naivety and emotional immaturity will only make this MORE likely to end in disaster.

Dating with a triad as your end goal is a very bad idea. It puts so much pressure on things, it ruins what could be otherwise beautiful connections. Date separately if you want to be poly. If a triad ends up forming after all, great! But don't be gunning for it . . . Why not just let it become whatever it most wants to be?

Have you considered looking for poly groups in your area? You might meet another couple or two and hit it off with the wife, and be reassured that the husband knows and consents. Also, many poly women are "solo" (like me) in the sense that they are independent and not partnered in a marriage or marriage-like living situation but do have lovers and/or FWBs. If they are also bisexual (not like me), they may be interested in dating a couple, but it would only work if you two are willing to broaden your parameters. Who knows - you might find yourselves in a "quad" someday (if you don't have a OPP).

Yes, as others have said, you do see many ads here like yours. It is highly doubtful that any are successful. Those of us who have been coming for years have never heard of any successful triads that came out of any of those ads.

Please know, also, that although much of what we post here may seem critical or negative, we are trying to help you head in the direction of a successful poly life.

 

[tnt]

Apparently two people here can't even read. The original poster said she knows these women and their husbands. No assumptions involved.

Thank you sweetersong. That was the point I was trying to make that seemed to keep getting passed over. Not that these women were married, but that their husbands would not know or be accepting of their wives 'being' with anyone other than them. Hell one of the husbands [with jealousy issues] used to get extremely upset with his wife for simply spending too much time with us. Assuming we were up to no good when in reality we were doing absolutely nothing wrong.
I gave up my best friend in an effort to maintain her marriage and family.

 

[tnt]

Please know, also, that although much of what we post here may seem critical or negative, we are trying to help you head in the direction of a successful poly life.

No worries. We're all here to learn and try and help eachother, right? I get that and my feelings aren't so fragile that I can't accept some constructive criticism. If I already had all the answers, I wouldn't be here asking questions.
Thank you also for posting the "AnnabelMore" story. I found it to be a very interesting read!
I guess it was my mistake in not expressing myself a little more clearly. As far as dating goes, I wouldn't expect a single woman to be exclusive to us. That would be her choice to do as she pleases.
But I guess I still see married women in another light. I would choose not to become involved with a married woman because I am thinking in the long term [which is maybe a bad idea and something I should change]. Eventually, I would like to have a relationship that progressed to a live-in situation. If my 'girlfriend' was already married than that obviously wouldn't be an option. If I were thinking in the 'now' then I guess it wouldn't be out of the question.
I do agree with a lot of what you are saying.

 

[london]

What about a married woman with a lifestyle that meant she could live with you up to and even exceeding half of the time? Say her husband works in Juba and she sees him a few times a year so she actually would spend more time with other partners? It's best not to exclude anyone and look for poly bisexual women. That's your market.

 

[Inyourendo]

What if you meet someone and you all hit it off and enter into a relationship then she meet someone else and wants a relationship with them as well. Or she decides she only wants a sexual relationship with one of you?

 

[tnt]

@london:
I see that as a viable option. Definitely food for thought. Actually, I kind of like that scenario. It would be like a vacation of sorts and everyone needs a vacation every now and then. I know I would love one, lol .
I guess my main concern is that as long as everyone is 'cool' with the situation, then I'm cool with it.
Maybe it's just paranoia on my part, but it seems the more people you start factoring into the equation the more likely complications will arise. Life is already so complicated on it's own.
Again, I don't have a lot of experience in this area, which is why I'm here, and maybe my tired old brain is full of misconceptions.

 

[tnt]

What if you meet someone and you all hit it off and enter into a relationship then she meet someone else and wants a relationship with them as well. Or she decides she only wants a sexual relationship with one of you?

I don't have a problem with either of those situations. At least not in the beginning.
As I mentioned earlier; looking at the long term, and this is just me personally, I wouldn't feel right if I had a 'girlfriend' living with us and hubby was totally left out of the situation. In my perfect world we would all live together and share all things equally [maybe unrealistic, but ya gotta have a goal, right?]
Again, that's just me. I consider hubby and I "one". I share everything in life with him and vice versa. Old fashioned I know, but it is what it is.