what is "in the closet" ?

F

Flear

New member
this isn't an agreeable topic, but it bugs me regardless.

for those who would consider themselves some kind of poly (polyamory) the definition is so vague it almost lacks definition.

-a possibly intimate relationship (maybe not)
-with more than one other person
-that may or may not have romantic feelings towards each other
-with no consideration for if this 'relationship' (of a sort) may or may not still continue after the first night.

i have tried to set an argument that there should be some guidlines to one being called (calling themselves) polyamorous. instead what i am met with is people (in the community) insisting that poly is up to the definition of the individual who wishes to call themselves poly.

so this could include someone who has a select few partners they are commited to, or someone that has so many partners that others could quickly lose count while at least some of those partners have no continued commitment beyond that one night.

then there are those in the community that are offended when others think of poly as "so you'll sleep with anyone then right ?"

yet this definition of poly is defended within the community because there are people in the community who call themselves poly who will sleep with anyone (so long as the other person struck their fancy at the moment)

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i wonder if anyone is following at this point, or if peolpe have their back against a wall in rigid dissagreement...

for those still following, ... why do i hear from anyone that a person has the right to call themselves poly if they see it fit when they may have no more commitment to anyone than that one night, why is that defended ???

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within the poly community the definition of polyamory is little more than "you better ask the other person how they see & practice poly in their own lives", ... because that kind of definition is really a good way to identify poly it seems (a lot of sarcasm here)

for those outside looking in, we get the lowest of the low view (defended within the community) that we sleep with anyone.

and the definition of polyamory is very very vague.
"the philosophy or state of being in love or romantically involved with more than one person at the same time."

now if that definition says something concrete about a person i'm really missing it, i would love some clarity to hear how that defines poly that says that person is poly, that one is a whore (or man-whore, those people exist too) because that word also fits the definition of polyamory

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someone who calls themselves gay (or lesbian) is very clear, very understood about how they consider acceptable replationships in their life.

if someone calls themselves gay (or lesbian) i know exactly what they consider acceptable practice within their own lives, i know exactly where i fit with that, there is no need to clarify

if someone goes by the term polyamory, there is no such clarity, "polyamory" is about as clear as muddy water.

in or out of the community, polyamory is not clear, ... it's just worse for those outside looking in because they start with a very low opinion of us

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so while this is my rant, i am actually open to honest clear (and hopefully) constructive converstation on this

i picked "in the closet" because poly tends to go by a definition so vague it tends to avoid definition, and not being open about how you define yourself is being in the closet isn't it ????

so i would love to hear clarification on where all those many think i am wrong.

my defaults will resort to the following (none of these have any preference for sexual orientation)
if it's long-term, it's open or poly
if it's someone you will bring with you to family events, it's poly
if it's casual, it's swinging or FWB
if you consider some are closer (primaries), it's poly
if you consider some are not as close (secondaries), it's open
if it's someone you consider committed to long term (my favorite) it's polygamy

... well we got my defaults out of the way, ... i'll try not to use those or bring them up to say "you're wrong"

i would love to stop hessitating about calling myself poly because when others are looking in, it's derogatory, i don't like being considered as someone who is going to give less than my all to those in my life, ... and that's the default view that those outside looking in have of poly, ... it's also defended in the community, so those outside looking in are correct.

but that's not me.

for those outside looking in, why do i need to sit down and have a long talk about this aspect of what i am ?

for those outside looking in, ... why do i need to defend that i am honorable, and truly respect those in my life ?

for those outside looking in, ... if they think poorly of us, why would they want to sit down and talk with me to get clarity about what i am when i already disgust them ?

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so i would love to have some input, some help on this.

i'm not ashamed of what i am, i am ashamed to say it's polyamory though
 
I feel like if you hide the fact that you have more than one partner purposefully that you're in the closet. For instance if I went around only talking about my husband never referring to my boyfriend, then that would be being in a closet. I don't go around saying oh I'm Polly I have two partners however I do enjoy my husband I do mention my boyfriend and most people put two and two together and asked me about it and I tell them. my ex husbands family knows that I have a boyfriend and a husband but I don't talk to my ex husband about it because I don't feel like its any of his business I don't feel like me not expressively telling him that I'm in a polyamorous V is being in a closet.
 
Polyamory IS different for everyone. While I practice what my husband and I often call "true" polyamory, where we can date, love, and see as many people in as many ways as we like, not everyone wants that.

Why is YOUR label more valid than someone else's?

So someone else isn't interested in that. They have a comfortable, closed triad. No one dates outside of that. That's okay.

Marriage is another word that some people wish to own and define and limit; only people who are heterosexual, monogamous, and abide to rigid social standards are "permitted" to apply the label of marriage to themselves.

Being a whore or a slut is neither helpful nor useful, and isn't connected to the idea of polyamory. My husband dated a woman who most would label a whore; she had many sexual partners, and was clear up front that she wanted SEX.

It's not your job nor privilege to determine what other people choose to label themselves. There is no One True Poly -- because what works for some doesn't work for others. The limits some people place on themselves don't work for me; how is it helpful or fair for me to deny them that label because I don't play that way, or for them to dismiss my self-identification because they disagree??

Labels serve one primary purpose, ideally: To help us understand each other. If someone says "I am bisexual" but they date only members of the same gender, that is understood that they are still attracted to people of the opposite sex. That doesn't mean their chosen self-description is invalid.

I don't understand the need some have to own words, anyway. It's not an exclusive club, there is no ruling body, no dues, no fees. If you want to call yourself a registered dietician, you get educated and certified. If you want to call yourself poly, you just do.

My husband currently has a girlfriend. They intend to be together for a while. She has no intention of dating outside of their pairing. I'm not involved.

They're poly.

I'm currently not seeing anyone, though I'm trying. I have had no emotional connection with anyone outside of one person whom I can't see.

I'm still poly.

I am attracted to and capable of loving more than one person at a time. Poly definitions don't have to be defined by rules and guidelines; the definition is vague because it's a vague subject, more of a spectrum than a limit, you know? No label is intended to express the entire breadth of an individual's possible experiences. Homosexual means sexually attracted to people of the same gender. That doesn't even come close to describing the many variations within homosexuality that people experience. It doesn't HAVE to. Commitment isn't involved in either definition; That's where those extra terms you'll see added on come in to play when people think "poly" isn't enough. One can be a "slut" and sleep with many individuals of the same sex in a short period of time and be homosexual. One can also be in a monogamous relationship with someone of the opposite gender and still be homosexual. Poly is no different.

A label serves no purpose beyond giving the people talking a place to start the discussion. No more, no less.
 
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i've never heard gay (or lesbian) be a description of how many partners they have, only what kind of partner(s) they desire
 
Flear said:
i've never heard gay (or lesbian) be a description of how many partners they have, only what kind of partner(s) they desire
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Polyamory is the same. It doesn't have anything to do with how many partners you have. Just that you are capable of desiring more than one at the same time.
 
It is important to ask.

Because lots of words are vague or have multiple meanings. Even in mono relationships, what is mono to a person can be different. To some it means only having sex with one. To others i means you don't have any other friends. The exmples are too numerous to type in my phone.

To me poly is best defined strictly by the meaning of its parts "multiple" + "loves".
How one chooses to act upon their ability and/or interest in multiple loves is one of those things that needs discussed to ensure clarity of the topic.

How I find love is through VASTLY different methods than how Maca or GG do. We are all in a poly dynamic.
However only I identify as poly in terms of "BEING in love with more than one". Maca says he "could be" & GG says he is mono.
 
I believe some people confuse polyamory with polysexual. It is likely that the majority of polyamorists are also polysexual (unless they are asexual) as love is often expressed through sex; and likewise sex can propagate love. However, people can be monoamorous, but polysexual - having a deep bond with only one, but enjoying sex on a more casual basis with friends.

Polyamory is the condition of being able to love more than one. Polysexual speaks to behavior, which can occur regardless of a person's tendency to love just one or to love more than one.
 
LovingRadiance, it's the whole "Multiple + Loves" part that is flipping annoying

there are plenty that go by poly who don't necessarily show any love to one or more of their partners, who call themselves poly, and that is defended by others as poly

Bookbug, i like that clarification, i wish it was more often used
 
How do you determine that they aren't showing any love to any of their partners? This is a genuine question, because to me, you can't know who is showing what emotions to whom unless you're there every second of every one of their interactions.

People who see me in public with S2 would say we don't show love to each other. That's because he prefers not to be affectionate in public, with the additional layer of him trying to be respectful of my situation (in that case, a married woman out with a man who isn't her husband).

But he *does* show me love in public. He holds doors for me (some women don't like that; I do). If we're walking along a street, he walks between me and traffic. If we're walking a distance, he asks me several times if I'm okay, because he knows I have fibromyalgia and he also knows that I'm often too stubborn to tell him I need to stop to rest.

I show him love by smiling, by laughing at his jokes (and trust me, not a lot of people would laugh at some of his jokes, but I genuinely find them funny), by listening to him no matter what he's talking about.

And in private, when it's just him and me, there are other ways that we show how we feel, and I don't mean only sexual ways. Neither of us has even said "I love you" to the other yet; it's entirely possible we never will. But that doesn't mean it isn't there, and it doesn't mean we don't see how the other feels. (Or at least, I see how he feels; I can't really speak for him.)
 
i have talked with those (ex-g/f) who personally know people who call themselves poly while they attend every swinger type event they could find

Edit:
including at the expense of their work to go out and get laid by random people
 
Fucking many doesn't mean they don't also love more than one person. It may mean they don't love everyone they fuck, but it doesn't mean they don't love any of them. Polyamory doesn't mean you only have sex with people you love; it just means that you love or have the capacity to love more than one person.
 
KC43, ... i'm not exaggerating, there are those who call themselves poly because it makes them sound like they will care when all they care about is getting laid by more people

you can keep your swearing and naive ignorance to yourself

yes there are those who like to swing, and have commited partners, i'm not going to pretend that doesn't exist

but you really can grow up and quit being naive
 
Flear said:
KC43, ... i'm not exaggerating, there are those who call themselves poly because it makes them sound like they will care when all they care about is getting laid by more people

you can keep your swearing and naive ignorance to yourself

yes there are those who like to swing, and have commited partners, i'm not going to pretend that doesn't exist

but you really can grow up and quit being naive
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Flear,

Your response to KC43 was oddly disproportionate. Writing words like fuck and fucking are allowed on this board. And noting that some people can separate sex from love and enjoy multiple forms of both doesn't make one naive. It's entirely possible to be poly and enjoy swinging. One doesn't negate the other. There are poly folks who don't want to swing - that doesn't make them super duper poly - they just don't like swinging.

Of course, being poly doesn't automatically make anyone a decent human being. There are indeed people who say they are poly who treat their partners horribly, who lie, who manipulate. There are some who will use a poly label as an excuse to treat people poorly. Unfortunately that's true of any identity label - applying it doesn't make people magically not assholes.

Why did you start this thread? What's really going on? Who hurt you? Cause this reads like someone who was treated poorly and is trying to figure out why.
 
k, so things have taken a bit of a side-step from the origeonal post question,

poly = many
amory = love

and there are those who call themselves poly who practice with some degree of commitment or familiarization with more than one partner (what they do with others, hey, that's their business)

and there is polyamory = loving more than one with knowledge and consent of the other partners

but what if there are no partners who have a say, or know, because no one is a partner to them ? all there is is an eldless stream of having sex with more and more people = those they have had sex with and those they have not had sex with (yet)

how is that poly ???
any definition of poly, how does that fit ?
(lets start one step at a time with this as it otherwise seems to be going above peoples heads)

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Opalescent, as for where hurts may be, ... it's not dirty laundry, but i would rather that be a discussion i don't make public, ... not for shame, but there's a lot of bitterness about it
 
Flear said:
but what if there are no partners who have a say, or know, because no one is a partner to them ? all there is is an eldless stream of having sex with more and more people = those they have had sex with and those they have not had sex with (yet)
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Please try again. No matter how many times I read this I can't make head nor tail out of it. What are you actually trying to say?
 
There are two types of poly to me:

One being the people who are poly as a relationship structure choice.

The other being people who identify as polyamorous - like identifying as bi, straight, gay, pan, etc. These are people who just ARE poly. They have the inherent ability and/or desire to love multiple people.

Neither one of these would exclude have sex with person after person. In fact, looking at my dating life many people would probably think that's what I did for quite a while. Because I slept with a LOT of people for a while but didn't end up relationships with them. Does that make me not poly? I don't think so. I also used to actively engage in swinging, while also dating/identifying as poly. That also did not make me feel less poly.

And yes, there are people who just want casual sex who call it poly. It causes some people ti dislike the term poly at all. There are some people who say they're monogamous, though, then go cheat on their partners. There are liars, cheaters, and generally horrible people in all types of relationships and with all types of identities.
 
Using "fuck" in terms of having sexual intercourse isn't swearing, to me. It's a verb that describes the action. As opalescent said, that word is used on this board. I'm sorry it offends you.

As for the rest of your post to me: *I* should grow up? I'm not the one flinging insults around here. And I'm far from naive. You have no knowledge of anything I've been through in my life.

As someone else said--and as you yourself said--you have clearly been through a hurtful experience that has left you bitter.

That does not give you an excuse for insulting me. But honestly, you're an anonymous person on the internet who's lashing out against anyone who doesn't give the answer he wants, so I feel sorry for you rather than angry.

Good luck finding whatever it is you're looking for in terms of replies.
 
Rabbit hole

Flear said:
k, so things have taken a bit of a side-step from the origeonal post question,

poly = many
amory = love

and there are those who call themselves poly who practice with some degree of commitment or familiarization with more than one partner (what they do with others, hey, that's their business)

and there is polyamory = loving more than one with knowledge and consent of the other partners

but what if there are no partners who have a say, or know, because no one is a partner to them ? all there is is an eldless stream of having sex with more and more people = those they have had sex with and those they have not had sex with (yet)

how is that poly ???
any definition of poly, how does that fit ?
(lets start one step at a time with this as it otherwise seems to be going above peoples heads)

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Opalescent, as for where hurts may be, ... it's not dirty laundry, but i would rather that be a discussion i don't make public, ... not for shame, but there's a lot of bitterness about it
Click to expand...

Of course, you have every right to maintain privacy. I'm sorry you are hurting, whatever the context.

I'm also rather puzzled as to your question which I bolded above. I suggest it's not going over our heads but that the question is really unclear. And since the background is not being provided (understandably so), we are even more puzzled. So I'm just taking a stab here. Hopefully it is useful.

Are you saying that people who fuck a lot aren't poly and shouldn't be considered as such? A Venn diagram with one circle of people who have lots of sex with lots of people and another of people who consider themselves poly would overlap but they are not the same thing. A Venn diagram with a circle representing people who consider themselves asexual and one for those who consider themselves poly would also overlap.

I gently suggest, no matter the context, that you are going down the rabbit hole with this line of thinking. Figuring out who belongs and who doesn't in the category of poly is not going to help you sort out your pain. You may decide that someone is doing poly wrong, misrepresenting themselves and generally being an asshole. That could be a very accurate assessment of a situation. But that just makes you feel right, it doesn't actually ease pain or resolve conflicts within yourself. Feeling in the right is a mask for pain, not a cure. Defining poly so that someone is now outside of it in your own mind may be logically correct but useless emotionally and spiritually. (As someone who cared more than I like to admit about being 'right', and still struggles against that tendency, I know this too well.)

So this is a question you can ask, and apparently feel compelled to ask. But it's not a useful question. Ask yourself rather why this causes you to have strong feelings - whatever those feelings are. Why are you feeling these things? Why are you angry? Or fearful? Or sad? If someone is having sex after sex with person after person, why does that hurt you? Why does their use of the label 'poly' disturb you? These questions might be more useful to sorting out what's going on for you.

best of luck. I hope things ease for you.
 
LovingRadiance said:
We are all in a poly dynamic.
.
Click to expand...

Very well stated.:)

I have wonder if forcing Poyamory into a fixed finite definition, was inconsistent with the idea itself. Even the idea of monogamy is inconsistent because to "love" another means we probably needed to "love" ourselves first.
If we didn't love ourselves how would we know what love was in the first place?
 
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