Of course this could work, but is it for us?

kullervo

New member
This is us, 43 year old male in a committed relationship with my wife (36) for 15 years.

Earlier in our relationship we had a couple of very naive threesome experiences, but we made mistakes and decided not to go there again. What followed was more than a decade of guilt, anger, insecurity, and me caging myself in, never allowing myself to reach out emotionally to women again.

In fairness, life dealt us other curve balls too. I was treated for bipolar II, and the aforementioned events were framed from the perspective of hypersexuality induced by hypomania. However, after hospitalization last year, caused by medication, my wife, my therapist and I together decided that the bipolar label, expecially as far as medication is concerned, is not useful anymore. I am now entirely off medication, and, touch wood, relatively stable. It turned out that living authentically, true to myself, was more important than medication.

My wife has also started therapy more than a year ago. She is on a journey of discovering who she is, what her desires are, where her boundaries lie and how to set and enforce them. But hopefully she will tell her own story when/if she joins this forum.

Recently, she suggested an open relationship. This was not entirely out of the blue, but still a bit of a shock. What followed was an intense process of talking, crying, getting angry, but beautifully, untangling very old emotions. I have realized that, not having emotional connections with any women other than my wife is killing me. I feel lonely, empty and unfulfilled. I don't need sex, but because of who I am, something I cannot change, I need feminine emotional closeness.

My wife agreed to me having such an emotional, though non-sexual connection to a very good friend of ours, who has agreed to meet me for lunch at a restaurant every now and then. This in itself is quite difficult for her. For her, this is a bigger challenge even than sexual infidelity, and I appreciate her sacrifice for what it is for her.

Yesterday, after a much younger friend of mine told me a beautiful little story of how she got involved with her current boyfriend, I decided that it would be equally beautiful if my wife told me such a story. I told her I was ready for her to take that step.

However, she is still very reluctant and unsure, and I guess so am I. We know depression eats away at my self-esteem which is the perfect breeding ground for the green eyed monster. We don't know what we don't know, and what if something we did not anticipate at all causes an unbarable anxiety in me? Also, my wife, because of her own emotional problems, struggles with identity. What if this experience changes who she believes she is? Who is she now? She also has significant difficulty setting her boundaries, more so even than me. Myself, her lover or my lover, any of us could unwittingly overstep a sensitive boundary, and may only find out after the wheels had come off.

Is this for us?
 
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I would like it to work, am I seeing the full picture?

I am the 36 year old wife and wanted to join my 43 year old husband on this forum as we venture into a poly world that is not governed by societies norm. This space has always felt more right than the mono society one.

Seen as we have given it a first bash with the unsuccessful threesomes and having no one to talk to or ask advise from or even share with a close friend afterwards. It has been a lonely journey for me too.

As my husband has said, he is seeking a relationship that has closeness and that he can share these experiences with. I am happy for him to do that. I just tend to get worried about him falling in love with this individual and my insecurities kick in that he may give more attention to her than me or that I may be placed second in our relationship. I know he is not like that, what I do know is that he loves like no other and his love is deep. If he feels the same about this friend, would I loose him to her? I guess I can answer that question - he will not leave me or give more attention to her, and with confidence know that I will always have that unbreakable bond with him. I now need to get over my fears and let this poly relationship bloom. I know that I do want this deep down and that I will be very happy in this type of poly family.

How does one start with a relationship when there are underlying psychological issues not pertaining to sexual experiences, but rather to depression and still learning to set your boundaries?
 
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New to this too

My advice? Continue with the therapy. But I would also suggest going to see a therapist together...not because you are having problems coping with polyamory per say...but because it can be emotionally complex enough to love and share with multiple partners, with or without personal demons.

A therapist (I recommend one who has experience working within the GLBTQ community...they are more likely to provide better observations for those exploring new ways to love) can help assist you find new coping mechanisms and ways to see the experiences you are sharing.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum! Hope you find this forum a useful tool for you both!

I was treated for bipolar II, and the aforementioned events were framed from the perspective of hypersexuality induced by hypomania. However, after hospitalization last year, caused by medication, my wife, my therapist and I together decided that the bipolar label, expecially as far as medication is concerned, is not useful anymore. I am now entirely off medication, and, touch wood, relatively stable. It turned out that living authentically, true to myself, was more important than medication.

So, you feel that deep down you are polyamorous - capable of loving and having a loving / intimate relationship with more than one person at a time. Also, you have noticed that your mental health is better when you live authentically and stay true to yourself.

Is this for us?

Given the aforesaid information - most likely yes.

One question to you: If you truly think you are poly - can you afford the emotional and mental health trouble you will get by denying it / living against your true self?

We don't know what we don't know, and what if something we did not anticipate at all causes an unbarable anxiety in me?

Then you deal with the anxiety. And most likely come out of it better and healthier than before. You have so far proven to be able to deal with difficult emotions.

Also, my wife, because of her own emotional problems, struggles with identity. What if this experience changes who she believes she is?

This is a very likely scenario. What if the change is for the better?

She also has significant difficulty setting her boundaries, more so even than me. Myself, her lover or my lover, any of us could unwittingly overstep a sensitive boundary, and may only find out after the wheels had come off.

What do you mean by boundaries?
 
Greetings kullervo and Tiamat,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Re (from OP):
"Is this for us?"

Given what I've read of your story so far, I think the only way to find out is to try it. Obviously, take it slow, and if you need to, pull out before things get too entangled.

Re (from Tiamat):
"I just tend to get worried about him falling in love with this individual and my insecurities kick in that he may give more attention to her than me or that I may be placed second in our relationship."

Falling in love can happen, and there is such a thing as NRE. I think the thing to remember is that it's okay to remind him that, "Hey, I'm still here, I still have needs, I need more of your attention, I am feeling like I'm being placed second." NRE tends to impair judgment, so it's likely he wouldn't even realize he was doing those things.

Re:
"How does one start with a relationship when there are underlying psychological issues not pertaining to sexual experiences, but rather to depression and still learning to set your boundaries?"

You probably need ongoing therapy. Make sure your therapist is poly-friendly. If they don't know about polyamory, they can get a book: "What Psychology Professionals Should Know about Polyamory," by Geri Weitzman, Ph.D., Joy Davidson, Ph.D., and Robert A. Phillips, Jr., Ph.D.

And as mentioned earlier, take it slow. And communicate a lot.

Polyamory.com can help you with a lot of your issues as they arise as well. Just let us know what your questions/concerns are.

Glad to have you with us,
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Thank you all for your well thought through responses. It again confirms my suspicion that people that are willing to delve this deep in the world of emotions and sexuality tend to be very much in touch with human nature.

@Nordic and @Kevin,
We will definitely continue seeing both our therapists. I have already told my therapist of where we are going with this. She wasn't overly thrilled given that it is a bit of an emotional minefield, but she also conceded that polyamory could work. She knows I value her input, but that I will ultimately follow my gut instinct. She knows she can't BS me either, as I studied pscyhology myself for 7 years. She also won't be offended if I gave her the book Kevin suggested as a "gift" and might actually read it. Tiamat however has some difficulty taking this to her therapist, who is a bit younger and less experienced.

@Nadya,
You make a good point - where will my (our) mental health go if I (we) try to force myself (ourselves) in a box not meant for me (us)? Frankly, you made me realize that I probably only survived the last 5 years thanks to the interaction I've had with my female therapist. That's not right.

W.r.t. what we mean by "boundaries", I see it as the flip side of desire. Tiamat's desires reflect how far she is willing to take herself, her boundaries reflect how far she is willing to let other people go. Tiamat finds it difficult to take conscious, explicit ownership of either her desire or her boundaries, and she has a horrible childhood to thank for that.

She will forgive me for highlighting how her response immediately brought attention to my desire, but at the same time, she very much had her own desire in mind when she suggested we go poly. That she is willing to admit this is great, but I wish she would not find it so difficult to take conscious ownership of what she desires, and of the limits she needs to place on me, her lover and my lover to feel comfortable.

I must be honest and admit that we are coming from what could probably be considered a co-dependent relationship with each other. We took responsibility for each other's happiness. It worked for a long time because we are both extremely intuitive and sensitive, which allowed us not to have to make our desires and boundaries known. We have an intuitive understanding of each other's desires and boundaries.

But eventually the fact that we were not admitting our desires and boundaries to ourselves took a toll on our own mental health. We owe it to ourselves and to each other to take ownership of our own desires and boundaries. We need to set each other free from the responsibility for the desire and boundaries of the other. Does this make sense?
 
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Makes sense to me.
 
... Recently, she suggested an open relationship. This was not entirely out of the blue, but still a bit of a shock. What followed was an intense process of talking, crying, getting angry, but beautifully, untangling very old emotions. I have realized that, not having emotional connections with any women other than my wife is killing me. I feel lonely, empty and unfulfilled. I don't need sex, but because of who I am, something I cannot change, I need feminine emotional closeness.

My wife agreed to me having such an emotional, though non-sexual connection to a very good friend of ours, who has agreed to meet me for lunch at a restaurant every now and then. This in itself is quite difficult for her. For her, this is a bigger challenge even than sexual infidelity, and I appreciate her sacrifice for what it is for her.
....
However, she is still very reluctant and unsure, and I guess so am I. We know depression eats away at my self-esteem which is the perfect breeding ground for the green eyed monster. We don't know what we don't know, and what if something we did not anticipate at all causes an unbarable anxiety in me? Also, my wife, because of her own emotional problems, struggles with identity. What if this experience changes who she believes she is? Who is she now? She also has significant difficulty setting her boundaries, more so even than me. Myself, her lover or my lover, any of us could unwittingly overstep a sensitive boundary, and may only find out after the wheels had come off.

First, good on y'all for handing some difficult things. That is no small potatoes.

Second, go forthwith and buy the More than Two: Ethical Polyamory' by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert. It's not perfect and Veaux can be controversial. But it is a fine way to begin learning and thinking about how to do poly ethically and well. Pay special attention to the discussions of rules vs. boundaries, about insecurity, and about primary, secondary and non-hierarchical versions of poly relationships.

Third, take your time. Takes lots and lots of time. No need to rush. No one is seeing anyone else right now and that is actually a good thing. It is totally fine to take a year or more to talk between yourselves, work on yourselves and your relationship before making any moves to date.

Fourth (and this are not actually in order of importance - I just like lists and this helps me remember what I want to say!) - poly will change you, it will change your wife and it will change your relationship. This is inevitable and cannot be avoided. Change will happen. There will be (hopefully!) positive changes as well as not so positive ones. You may be able to anticipate some of the changes but, often, they will blind side you. And this is with everyone being on board, doing the best they can and being as open and honest and communicative as possible.

In my opinion, poly is a risk to any established relationship. Poly is a risk not because one of you may run away with someone else - that can happen in any type of relationship. It's a risk because poly pushes you to face who you really are, who your spouse really is, and the actual state of your relationship. Now I'm not saying people in monogamous relationships can't grow and learn and change in a relationship. But it is easier to 'coast' and not challenge one's ideas, feelings or thoughts. Poly will shine a bright spotlight into any cracked places in yourself, your spouse and your relationship. And then set up a strobe light at that cracked place just to make sure you got the message.

If change and risking your relationship is a major concern, do not go down this path, at least just yet. There will be change, there will be pain and insecurity and hopefully there will also be joy and love. But it is a risk and one both of you need to think about carefully. I personally find it worth the risk (so far) and I have had my losses for sure.

Fifth, both of you will blunder into each other's soft spots and hurt each other. Despite everyone's best efforts and intentions, this will happen. It is partly a matter of 'not knowing what you don't know', it's also common that people just don't know how something will affect them until they actually experience it. For example, you may think that your reaction to your wife telling you the beautiful story of how she met her boyfriend would be positive and loving and you would love her even more. The reality may be you feel terrible jealousy and pain and insecurity. Or not. It's impossible to know these things ahead of time.

You will hurt each other, despite desperately not wanting to. And the horrible thing is - to be healthy, to have a healthy relationship, it is sometimes necessary to hurt our partner. It is necessary to tell the hard things which will cause them pain, it is necessary to show them the ugly emotions we have sometimes. The truth is often painful and ugly. But without the willingness to be authentic and to witness each other's real, authentic self, relationships hollow out. I think this is true of any relationship but it seems to me to be especially true of poly relationships.

I am the 36 year old wife and wanted to join my 43 year old husband on this forum as we venture into a poly world that is not governed by societies norm. This space has always felt more right than the mono society one.

As my husband has said, he is seeking a relationship that has closeness and that he can share these experiences with. I am happy for him to do that. I just tend to get worried about him falling in love with this individual and my insecurities kick in that he may give more attention to her than me or that I may be placed second in our relationship. I know he is not like that, what I do know is that he loves like no other and his love is deep. If he feels the same about this friend, would I loose him to her? I guess I can answer that question - he will not leave me or give more attention to her, and with confidence know that I will always have that unbreakable bond with him. I now need to get over my fears and let this poly relationship bloom. I know that I do want this deep down and that I will be very happy in this type of poly family.

How does one start with a relationship when there are underlying psychological issues not pertaining to sexual experiences, but rather to depression and still learning to set your boundaries?

Are you aware that you and your husband want different 'styles' of ethical non-monogamy? Based on the posts, you appear to prefer a model where there is sex but not necessarily emotional or romantic connections. Your husband seems to prefer a model where there is emotional and romantic connections but sex is not automatically included (but might be). There is nothing wrong with either of these styles! Both of you are not wrong in wanting what feels good to you. But at the moment you do not want the same thing. It is not necessary to want the same things if you feel you can accommodate the differences - you do not need to be united couple front on this matter. You can have an open sexual relationship with others while your husband pursues more emotionally entangled connections with others. This is possible but it will be impossible to do ethically and well without a high degree of personal awareness of the differences between what you want and what your husband wants. (And of course these things change over time! Another layer of complexity!)

It is entirely possible, actually probably likely, that your husband will fall in love with someone he has a strong emotional closeness with. We feel what we feel. It is not possible to tell someone else how or what to feel. Having rules about what to feel is generally a losing proposal. You cannot expect your husband not to fall in love - and you might find yourself falling in love despite not wanting that type of connection.

I have lots of other thoughts but have run out of steam. I wish both of you the best.
 
Thank you Opalescent and everyone else for the advice. Opalescent I think your observations are very accurate. Tiamat is definitely more comfortable with the physical side of poly, and I am more comfortable with the emotional side of it. I have bought "More than two". We have already found some very helpful tips in there.

I have already opened up to my therapist, and therefore have a space to explore my emotions, fears and anxieties. Tiamat could unfortunately not get to that space with her therapist, and she is currently considering getting a new therapist. We found a poly-friendly relationship counselor who has indicated she has experience in guiding both individuals and couples through this journey. We will be seeing her shortly.

All in all I think we're going about this responsibly. There is no rush, and we are very much aware of the obstacles we need to overcome in terms of personal growth. Having read some of the other stories on the forum, I realize we are quite privileged not to have to deal with the pain of one partner already having a relationship with another person and only then considering poly. Unfortunately this seems to be quite common and frankly I think those people need a kick on the ass for not having been honest with themselves or their partners before stepping over that line. Building trust from such a situation is just so so so difficult.
 
Sounds very good! This forum is a great source of advice but as well a great source of bad examples. You really *can* learn from other people's mistakes, and this forum has plenty of stories of them. Yes, proceeding with caution and self-awareness is good.

The poly friendly relationship counselor sounds perfect! Hope the personal chemistries between you all work. Also hope that Tiamat will find a poly friendly therapist - they are way too few, still.

Taking your time is a good thing to do, especially since no one is having a potential partner in sight. It really sounds that you are doing this very responsibly, kudos! Keep us posted about your process, I am definitely interested!
 
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