Polyamory HOUSE - Would you live here?

[JillSummers]

OK, my constructive advice is that if you're seriously looking to organize a STABLE situation, don't put a beach babe on your web page, don't reference sex in every paragraph, don't ask for photos of applicants and do allow for more personal furnishings. People that don't bring stuff with them are by nature in a transient time of their lives. This looks like a big fantasy that is all about sex, which is fine, but it's not a set up for a stable poly situation. Again, I'll be very curious for you to prove me wrong and only a few years will reveal what really happens vs. what you're fantasizing about.

This whole thing is irksome to me because it's the typical idea of what "poly" is - a bunch of hot bisexuals romping in and out of bed, then moving on because "poly relationships never last." I think this kind of "promotion" gives poly a very bad rep.

Wow! You got all that from a guy trying to live with people that he wants to and you think your criticism is constructive? People can bring personal furnishings (again if you read it properly) there just isn't enough room for all of them and storage will be arranged. It sounds like YOU have a massive gripe with what he's doing. I don't see any problems with it and think it's a healthy way to live. He wants to form relationships with tenants yes but nowhere does it say sex is expected by anyone, that would be crazy and unrealistic and says more about your own issues that what he is actually looking for.

Still you hide behind your computer keyboard and spout your feminist views on how you think poly people need to live their lives if you like, polyamory may be a broad term, however, the way you justify how you sleep with different people is your business but it's polyamory none the less and so is Pauls way of going about his life (and mine) and you come across more like a fascist with views and criticism like that!

You say it gives Poly people a bad rep to be swingers and have lots of sex with lots of people.... How about you stop worrying about the perceived rep and what people say & start supporting poly folk. The public always boil it down to sex as its the lowest common denominator, this wont change so embrace it and say 'so what's wrong with sex anyway'!!! We are still the massive minority and we each have different ways of doing things. Paul is not hurting anyone and I have been as clear as I can about what he is looking for.... Some people on this forum seem intent on making this a slate fest which is not going to help our community, we should be united and open to each other not standing apart - we need each other..... Rant over!

 

[MightyMax]

Okay, I have some things to point out which might explain some of what people are criticizing.

though, he said we shall be having monthly closed house parties to get our ‘freak on’

Here, Paul assumes that the poly people he lives with are going to be interested in group and semi public sexual activities. Just because a person is poly, it does not mean that this sort of thing will appeal to them. So you're not looking for a poly person (a person who has multiple intimate relationships at the same time), you are looking for someone who is into group public sex play. That is your audience. Some of the people might be poly, others won't be.

No, sorry, the purpose of this apartment is to live together and share everything as a community.

So does this mean that I can't have a bed that is always "my bed"? Does this mean that I have to share all of my food with people who never buy food? Do I have to share my income? Do I have to share my partners? Is everything and anyone shareable?

a

nd decided the first thing to do is to send him a recent picture of yourself with your age, a good description of yourself including sexual orientation

If I am not obligated to a sexual or romantic relationship with anyone, why does what I look like or the type of person I am attracted to matter? Surely the fact that I have two partners is enough. You are looking for poly people, aren't you? Not sexual/romantic partners that will consent to sex with you? If you are looking for partners for yourself, you need to make that clear. "I am looking for poly people who will have sex with me and be my romantic partner. We can all live together in my house."

 

[opalescent]

I read the announcement and it does give the impression that this will be primarily a sexy times party house. I realize the goal is to create a poly community but the impression given is really of a transient, sex-focused atmosphere. While there isn't anything wrong with that, it's not what I think of when I consider building a poly community. Sex, and sex-positivity, are important but they don't define poly (nor am I arguing you are saying that). However first impressions matter and I don't think you quite realize what you are conveying to others. I do not believe this is the impression you or your boyfriend wish to give.

That said, as an outsider reading it, that is what I gathered about the project. You may want to consider your audience and who you want to attract to the apartment. If the goal is actually a sexy time party house, then this is just fine. But if you want to attract people who may stay awhile, want to build a community and so on, you're not giving that impression and you may not be attractive to those folks. (Of course, there could be overlap!)

Also, you seem to be confusing disagreeing with you and negative feedback. Disagreeing with you is not automatically a negative. It's unpleasant when people do it. I don't enjoy it. No one does. But disagreement, done respectfully, gives us the opportunity to really think through our ideas, thoughts and feelings. It challenges us. This is absolutely necessary for us to learn and to refine our ideas.

You know what I hate worse than having people disagree with me? Being wrong, when I was sure I was right. If no one disagrees with me, or I don't pay attention to that, then I often just keep blundering along. I try to be self-aware and reflective but I have blind spots. Someone else is offering us their thoughts, their ideas, and background as a way to help us see more, see things we miss. Is it necessary to accept the other viewpoints as correct? Nope. Sometimes people's input is not appropriate for us to incorporate. But skipping that step of pausing and reconsidering risks blundering along thoughtlessly.

If someone disagrees with me, but does not attack me personally, or denigrates me or my proposals, is respectful and polite (even if strongly opposed), then I consider that disagreement and not negativity. You will run inevitably into negativity and apathy so it's important to be able to recognize the difference.

Here's some examples of the difference:

Negative:

Your idea is dumb.
This is not worth doing.
You are stupid.
You don't know what you are doing.
This is pointless.

Disagreement:

I would rather do [X] or [Y] because of [Z].
I'd prefer this option [blah] over that [blah] because of [fill in blank].
Have you thought about this [idea]?
This gives me the impression of [fill in blank] because of [blah]. Was that intentional?
From my personal experience, you will run into this problem or issue. Have you considered this possibility?
Historically, this [blah] has happened. Did you know about [blah]? Have you talked with people who were in [blah]?

 

[FallenAngelina]

I don't know about feminism and fascism and hiding behind a keyboard (Hello! That's really me in my avatar and all of the pix on my profile page) but whatever. I'm all for sexy house parties (in fact, am going to one this weekend) but just be honest that what you're advertising is not a polyamorous community, it's an extended stay sex hotel for sexy-enough applicants.

 

[JillSummers]

I read the announcement and it does give the impression that this will be primarily a sexy times party house. I realize the goal is to create a poly community but the impression given is really of a transient, sex-focused atmosphere. While there isn't anything wrong with that, it's not what I think of when I consider building a poly community. Sex, and sex-positivity, are important but they don't define poly (nor am I arguing you are saying that). However first impressions matter and I don't think you quite realize what you are conveying to others. I do not believe this is the impression you or your boyfriend wish to give.

That said, as an outsider reading it, that is what I gathered about the project. You may want to consider your audience and who you want to attract to the apartment. If the goal is actually a sexy time party house, then this is just fine. But if you want to attract people who may stay awhile, want to build a community and so on, you're not giving that impression and you may not be attractive to those folks. (Of course, there could be overlap!)

Also, you seem to be confusing disagreeing with you and negative feedback. Disagreeing with you is not automatically a negative. It's unpleasant when people do it. I don't enjoy it. No one does. But disagreement, done respectfully, gives us the opportunity to really think through our ideas, thoughts and feelings. It challenges us. This is absolutely necessary for us to learn and to refine our ideas.

You know what I hate worse than having people disagree with me? Being wrong, when I was sure I was right. If no one disagrees with me, or I don't pay attention to that, then I often just keep blundering along. I try to be self-aware and reflective but I have blind spots. Someone else is offering us their thoughts, their ideas, and background as a way to help us see more, see things we miss. Is it necessary to accept the other viewpoints as correct? Nope. Sometimes people's input is not appropriate for us to incorporate. But skipping that step of pausing and reconsidering risks blundering along thoughtlessly.

If someone disagrees with me, but does not attack me personally, or denigrates me or my proposals, is respectful and polite (even if strongly opposed), then I consider that disagreement and not negativity. You will run inevitably into negativity and apathy so it's important to be able to recognize the difference.

Here's some examples of the difference:

Negative:

Your idea is dumb.
This is not worth doing.
You are stupid.
You don't know what you are doing.
This is pointless.

Disagreement:

I would rather do [X] or [Y] because of [Z].
I'd prefer this option [blah] over that [blah] because of [fill in blank].
Have you thought about this [idea]?
This gives me the impression of [fill in blank] because of [blah]. Was that intentional?
From my personal experience, you will run into this problem or issue. Have you considered this possibility?
Historically, this [blah] has happened. Did you know about [blah]? Have you talked with people who were in [blah]?

Sigh! Thanks for the lesson, remind me to post you one on patronisation!

 

[JillSummers]

Okay, I have some things to point out which might explain some of what people are criticizing.



Here, Paul assumes that the poly people he lives with are going to be interested in group and semi public sexual activities. Just because a person is poly, it does not mean that this sort of thing will appeal to them. So you're not looking for a poly person (a person who has multiple intimate relationships at the same time), you are looking for someone who is into group public sex play. That is your audience. Some of the people might be poly, others won't be.



So does this mean that I can't have a bed that is always "my bed"? Does this mean that I have to share all of my food with people who never buy food? Do I have to share my income? Do I have to share my partners? Is everything and anyone shareable?

a

If I am not obligated to a sexual or romantic relationship with anyone, why does what I look like or the type of person I am attracted to matter? Surely the fact that I have two partners is enough. You are looking for poly people, aren't you? Not sexual/romantic partners that will consent to sex with you? If you are looking for partners for yourself, you need to make that clear. "I am looking for poly people who will have sex with me and be my romantic partner. We can all live together in my house."

Thank you! However, I'm fully aware of what people are criticising, I'm not naive. I'm afraid this community and the type of people here are not for me and although Paul is not a member I'm pretty sure it's not for him either!

 

[JillSummers]

I don't know about feminism and fascism and hiding behind a keyboard (Hello! That's really me in my avatar and all of the pix on my profile page) but whatever. I'm all for sexy house parties (in fact, am going to one this weekend) but just be honest that what you're advertising is not a polyamorous community, it's an extended stay sex hotel for sexy-enough applicants.

Haha! You package polyamory how you want in your own world then and exclude me and my partners so we can scramble around to find another title we can be excluded from.. Have fun at your party

 

[JillSummers]

Positive endings

I was so excited when I found this forum it has the URL polyamory.com what could go wrong and I couldn't wait to get involved.

All the life and excitement I have in my polyamorous life I bought here I feel has been washed out of me by cynics and I have to get out before I become one, some of my posts today may even come across as bitter - this is not how I want to be so as I leave this community forum I'm afraid I am feeling somewhat washed out.

If people want to raise polyamory awareness and global acceptance and bring this community closer together then this community could benefit from more support rather than closing people out with negativity and cynicism. Being told I'm not polyamorous nor is my partner hurts and doesn't help me to fit in and not something I need to hear to be honest.

Funny, I feel that not one person has backed me up on here, yet in my life and other communities I am a part of there is nothing but love and support, how come I feel none here at all then? I'm always up for a good debate but feel I don't fit in with a group of people that I am supposed to belong to.

So sad!

Ciou

Jill x

 

[YouAreHere]

Jill,
It's only been 7 hours since you initially posted, so it's possible that there are folks who have either been working or unable to check the boards, who would be interested (and excited) about this.

You're getting feedback from people who aren't in your target demographic, which seems to be a subset of the vast "polyamory" umbrella. That's not really a bad thing, I don't think.

As with all advice, take what you like and leave the rest. If people weren't trying to be supportive, they wouldn't reply at all.

 

[IndieSolo]

Most of us here are simply tired of seeing polyamory portrayed as focused on sex, casual sex, or group sex, when its focus is truly on having multiple loving relationships.

And while there is this online poly community, and others, and your local poly community, there is no one poly community. So, perhaps this isn't the online community for you. Just because someone calls themselves poly doesn't mean they "should" fit in here or are even practicing anything other than fucking around. Again, there is nothing wrong with living a life full of casual NSA sex with many people - just don't call it polyamory. If your approach to non-monogamy is more sex-focused than on developing loving connections, your insistence upon calling it polyamory will be criticized.

You started this thread to ask for feedback on your ideas and got feedback. However, all you've done is argued in response and complained about being judged. Judging is a function inherent in offering feedback, so all anyone has done is given you exactly what you asked for! If you don't want to even consider the validity of the feedback you get here, why post asking for feedback at all?

If this thread devolves into any further arguing, it will be locked.

 

[JillSummers]

Most of us here are simply tired of seeing polyamory portrayed as focused on sex, casual sex, or group sex, when its focus is truly on having multiple loving relationships.

And while there is this online poly community, and others, and your local poly community, there is no one poly community. So, perhaps this isn't the online community for you. Just because someone calls themselves poly doesn't mean they "should" fit in here or are even practicing anything other than fucking around. Again, there is nothing wrong with living a life full of casual NSA sex with many people - just don't call it polyamory. If your approach to non-monogamy is more sex-focused than on developing loving connections, your insistence upon calling it polyamory will be criticized.

You started this thread to ask for feedback on your ideas and got feedback. However, all you've done is argued in response and complained about being judged. Judging is a function inherent in offering feedback, so all anyone has done is given you exactly what you asked for! If you don't want to even consider the validity of the feedback you get here, why post asking for feedback at all?

If this thread devolves into any further arguing, it will be locked.

The tribe leader is here... Haha! LOCK it Gestapo woman I'm outa here, fyi I only have loving relationships some of which I have had for many years now but I'm not ashamed of having sex and sometimes with people I just met OH MY GOD!!! Better leave now before you burn me at the stake too!!

Let the world know that us polyamorists (yes I am polyamorous - you should maybe double check the definition on my site) like sex sometimes with people we just met (call me crazy but monogamists have been known to do this too I hear) The world opens up... when you do. Who said that???

 

[opalescent]

Sigh! Thanks for the lesson, remind me to post you one on patronisation!

*sigh*

Good luck on the community.

 

[IsidoreNabi]

Let the world know that us polyamorists (yes I am polyamorous - you should maybe double check the definition on my site) like sex sometimes with people we just met

Hi. Nice to meet you.

 

[IsidoreNabi]

Most of us here are simply tired of seeing polyamory portrayed as focused on sex, casual sex, or group sex, when its focus is truly on having multiple loving relationships.

Truly? Really? I thought we could focus on whatever we choose, as long as we're honest about it.

I'll admit that sex can be pretty wonderful in a serious, long-term relationship, but it's still way ahead of whatever's in second place just for it's own sake. It's, if memory serves, the best way to create and share pure, transcendent joy with another human being, and even if that's all you ever share, it's worth the price of admission. Sometimes I can't help feeling that people who find sex acceptable only under certain conditions, while I respect their preferences, are just a teensy bit less than sex-positive. If you need something else, be it "true love," a piece of paper, procreation or a wad of unmarked bills stuffed in an envelope to justify, legitimate or excuse sex, then you don't believe it is a good thing in its own right.

 

[IsidoreNabi]

I was so excited when I found this forum it has the URL polyamory.com what could go wrong and I couldn't wait to get involved.

All the life and excitement I have in my polyamorous life I bought here I feel has been washed out of me by cynics and I have to get out before I become one, some of my posts today may even come across as bitter - this is not how I want to be so as I leave this community forum I'm afraid I am feeling somewhat washed out.

If people want to raise polyamory awareness and global acceptance and bring this community closer together then this community could benefit from more support rather than closing people out with negativity and cynicism. Being told I'm not polyamorous nor is my partner hurts and doesn't help me to fit in and not something I need to hear to be honest.

Funny, I feel that not one person has backed me up on here, yet in my life and other communities I am a part of there is nothing but love and support, how come I feel none here at all then? I'm always up for a good debate but feel I don't fit in with a group of people that I am supposed to belong to.

So sad!

Ciou

Jill x

Dammit, now you're giving alienation a bad name. There's such a thing as not fitting in gracefully, y'know. You don't have to piss in the punchbowl and leave.

Wait a sec. "Collarado" [sic]? Now I get it. Weed used to make me paranoid too. That's why I gave it up.

 

[Evie]

hahahahaha

what great entertainment this has been.

I do love opportunities that just completely allow my judgmental mind out to play (nope, I don't feel the need to share, but it's been a rather fun thought process).

For whoever had some interest in the 'green' community, here's a functional one from Auckland, New Zealand:

http://www.earthsong.org.nz/

- individual homes, own titles
- no income sharing
- communal areas (buildings, laundries, garden).
- shared meal options
- membership/body corp
- eco building
- cars get parked at the edge
- all ages
- nothing formally to do with polyamory (dunno what the residents choose personally)
- not rural

They offer a copy of their membership (legal) documents on the page under 'resources'.

 

[IsidoreNabi]

Her expectations might be unrealistic, but at least her temperament is well-suited to this sort of arrangement, and she really brings out the best in everyone whose lives she touches.

 

[MightyMax]

The tribe leader is here... Haha! LOCK it Gestapo woman I'm outa here, fyi I only have loving relationships some of which I have had for many years now but I'm not ashamed of having sex and sometimes with people I just met OH MY GOD!!! Better leave now before you burn me at the stake too!!

Let the world know that us polyamorists (yes I am polyamorous - you should maybe double check the definition on my site) like sex sometimes with people we just met (call me crazy but monogamists have been known to do this too I hear) The world opens up... when you do. Who said that???

This is what you're failing to grasp. Whether people enjoy casual, group sex or not has nothing to do with whether they are poly. In fact, you point out that some monogamists like to do this too. If you know this, and you're looking for people who share these interests, why would you limit or target your search towards poly people? That's only some of the people that share your interests, not all of them. You'd be better off looking for people who want this "swinging" type lifestyle, for want of a better word because if you only target poly people, or have poly in the title, you are not maximizing your chances of finding suitable people.

Nobody, especially not NYCindie who has some of the most liberal relationships on the site, think negatively about casual sex - many of us indulge in it ourselves, or have done. It's just that when you look at people who identify as "poly" opposed to "hedonist", for example, you are more likely to find a majority who aren't into group and casual sex.

Nobody is doubting that any of these people involved in this are poly. It's just what you are seeking here with the casual group sex play party environment is not focused around polyamory. It's focused more around group swinging. Again, that's fine, but it means you need to look for people into that. It would be like me looking for a group of people into hiking on a website aimed at cyclists. It's likely that many cyclists enjoy hiking because they are both long-distance physical activities, but I'd be better off on a hikers website where everyone will be into hiking, regardless of their feelings about cycling.

Lastly, if sex with particular people is a must for tenants, be that you, Paul or other housemates, you have to make that clear that you will not tolerate tenants who will only have sex with their partners in private. The people who move in must consent to sex with other housemates. It is obvious that is an expectation, hence why you want to screen people for looks and sexual orientation, but it would be unfair and a little creepy not to make that very clear from the offset.

 

[WhatHappened]

And once again...to have a different opinion is now considered in this world to be 'judgmental.'

And now if I don't choose to sleep around someone might judge me as not quite 'sex positive' enough. Yes, it gets more and more entertaining.

I'm not sure anyone was criticizing Jill or anyone else for casual sex, but merely saying that's not what polyamory is about, and I do have to wonder, if 'polyamory' is really about anything and everything to do with having sex and relationships with lots of people--then what does the word actually mean? When it means that much, it comes to really mean nothing.

To say polyamory is about loving relationships is not judgment on any other sexual behavior at all. It's to define a word, because we can only ultimately communicate with one another if words actually mean something.

I have to agree with those who said this sounds like a sex house, rather than a poly house. I don't think their point was to criticize, but to say that if someone came there expecting 'loving relationships' and found 'free sex with everyone in the house,' they'd feel they'd walked into something other than what the house's title suggested.

 

[MightyMax]

Truly? Really? I thought we could focus on whatever we choose, as long as we're honest about it.

I'll admit that sex can be pretty wonderful in a serious, long-term relationship, but it's still way ahead of whatever's in second place just for it's own sake. It's, if memory serves, the best way to create and share pure, transcendent joy with another human being, and even if that's all you ever share, it's worth the price of admission. Sometimes I can't help feeling that people who find sex acceptable only under certain conditions, while I respect their preferences, are just a teensy bit less than sex-positive. If you need something else, be it "true love," a piece of paper, procreation or a wad of unmarked bills stuffed in an envelope to justify, legitimate or excuse sex, then you don't believe it is a good thing in its own right.

I think you have misunderstood the point here. Polyamory speaks about multiple intimate consensual relationships. You can be having sex with a lot of people in the same time frame without meeting this criteria of polyamory. Swingers do it all the time. When you say "I am poly", it usually means that you'd be open to having a wife and a girlfriend, or a husband and a boyfriend, or a mixture. Swingers, monoamorous swingers, would not be open to having more than one person with a "partner title" like spouse or girlfriend.

Distinguishing between swinging type activities and a polyamorous lifestyle does not inherently mean sex outside of a loving relationship is wrong. It just means that restricting "love" to one dyad whilst sharing sex with more than one person is not polyamory. The house situation described by the OP does not mention whether the housemates are expected to love each other as romantic partners, but it makes it clear that they are expected to share sex to some degree. That makes it more like a "swinging" environment where polyamory isn't forbidden than the opposite.