Hurt and confused by partner's choices

Tinwen said:
Whoa, that sounds really scary. For both sides. I mean, it must be hard for you. But it's also difficult to navigate receiving such a commitment. Especially if he can't reciprocate or perhaps didn't really ask for it.
A: "I've decided to go with you through good and bad whatever happens."
B: "Um, you know, I really like you, but... I hope you don't want me to promiss the same!"
I have been more on the B side in my relationships so far. And I've broken relationships demanding more commitment then I could give.
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Yes, it was very hard and scary, and a very big personal process, but it was what was right when I really dug deep and looked hard. I felt like I had moved a mountain inside myself. I had to be really sure that there would not be any residual longing or resentment from my choice. I feel good about the decision, I just needed to go through the hard process.

He definitely loves me and is committed to me, I have no doubt about that. There is no question for me here about that. We are extremely compatible and very much in love and I have no fear of his level of commitment or desire to be with me. I do realize there is no real way for him to reciprocate the kind of commitment that I just displayed. I don't feel like it's a question of if he would, but that he just can't. (There is no equivalent available)

I do believe that he is having a crisis though, either of worthiness, or of commitment, or something. He is pushing my boundaries to see if I am real in what I say. I am, so I will let him do what he needs to do to understand that (as long as he stays respectful to my boundaries and our agreements).

I feel like since posting this message last night I have relaxed on needing to "get" what he sees in her and am focusing more on myself and my relationship with him. I have started a list of what I need and we will chat about it when he gets home from work in a few days.
 
Commitments are definitely scary, whether you're making one or being given one. So that could have something to do with it.

I'm glad posting here seems to have helped you relax a bit. While it makes total sense that you would want to understand his motivations and reasons, in the long run it's *your* relationship that is the important thing for you, in my opinion.

You said something about her wanting to fluid bond with him. Are you and he fluid bonded? If so, I would say you have the right to set a boundary about that. You can't really tell him what to do, but fluid bonding is a matter of sexual health and I would certainly speak up about it in a case like this. Personally, if I were fluid bonded with a partner (which I am) and he wanted to fluid bond with another partner who had other partners and so on... There would be a long discussion during which I would express my preference that fluid bonding not happen, or that he get--and show me--proof of everyone else's sexual health, or that we return to using condoms.

As well, for a lot of people fluid bonding is an emotionally charged thing. If he were to agree to her request, that might imply to her that he's making more of a commitment than he actually is. Where you're already concerned about her not being able to accept essentially being his playmate because she has feelings for him, fluid bonding might add a whole other layer of complication.

It really isn't your problem if he's messing with her feelings, in my opinion. As I've said, I agree with your concerns about that, but you aren't *directly* involved in their relationship, and they're both adults. It's something they need to navigate on their own, and something for which they need to accept and deal with any consequences that arise. *You* aren't the one who's potentially toying with her feelings, and you aren't the one whose feelings are being toyed with, so I would leave that part of it as just saying to him, "I'm really worried because I know you dont' want to hurt anyone, but I'm afraid she'll be hurt when she realizes you aren't going to return her feelings."
 
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Hi RiverGoddess,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but why do you feel you have to give up on a desire to have children, just because your current partner doesn't want them? I believe desires are sacred and we should never, ever give up on them - sometimes it's just a matter of looking for a different way around or being open to it happening in different ways than we previously expected. After all, once you have a deep desire, it's part of you and it's never truly going to go away, even if you try to suppress it for someone else.

My understanding of poly is that it means you don't HAVE to follow the traditional relationship route. That means, there's lots of options for you to have children, and this partner doesn't have to, and you can still be together. For example, what if:

You had another primary partner, who wanted children, and you had children with him and current partner became like an uncle or godfather?

You and primary partner didn't live together anymore, and you adopted or had children through a sperm donar, and raised them alone, or with a good friend who also wanted to be part of a child's life?

I'm sure there are other options available as well, some sort of picture where you are a mother, but he's not a father, and you stay together (but maybe not living together if he doesn't want kids in the house where he lives). I'm just saying, you don't have to give up on your dreams...

And how freeing would it feel to both you *and him* if you were able to say to him, and mean, "I am still going to be a mother, because that's what I've decided. And when that time comes, I understand you don't want to be a father, so I won't make you responsible to fill that role, but I'd still like you to have to role of my partner. It will mean we'll need to renogotiate some things, like living arrangements, but I just want you to know I'll rearrange things so I can have children and still be a present and loving partner to you as well as a present and loving mother to them."

And then, just open up to the possibility of how that might happen...there are, I'm sure, paths to what you want that you haven't even seen yet.

After all, if you were a single mother (or partnered with someone else) when you started dating him, it wouldn't mean he would have had to become daddy to your kids. He might have just become partner to you, and a friend to them (but not paternal figure). So it's definitely possible to have an arrangement where two people are partners, one has kids but the other one does not relate to those kids as their parent.
 
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Tinwen said:
Could it be that he is simply so flattered by all the nre attention/love/lust/attachement she is showing, that he has a hard time declining her offers? Could it be he's a little lonely despite all he has with you? You know, if you crave fresh energy and attention, it's hard to reject fresh energy and attention..
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Yep, I do believe that is definitely part of it.

KC43 said:
You said something about her wanting to fluid bond with him. Are you and he fluid bonded? If so, I would say you have the right to set a boundary about that. You can't really tell him what to do, but fluid bonding is a matter of sexual health and I would certainly speak up about it in a case like this. Personally, if I were fluid bonded with a partner (which I am) and he wanted to fluid bond with another partner who had other partners and so on... There would be a long discussion during which I would express my preference that fluid bonding not happen, or that he get--and show me--proof of everyone else's sexual health, or that we return to using condoms.

As well, for a lot of people fluid bonding is an emotionally charged thing. If he were to agree to her request, that might imply to her that he's making more of a commitment than he actually is. Where you're already concerned about her not being able to accept essentially being his playmate because she has feelings for him, fluid bonding might add a whole other layer of complication.
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Yes, we are fluid bonded. I agree with what you are saying on all levels.
She claims she is clean and fixed, so and has been pushing to not use condoms.
She is also actively looking to date others (he encouraged this, to promote the concept that he is NOT her partner/boyfriend) and so I feel like, if she will be sleeping with others it is a matter of sexual health for us.
Also, I do see that I have an emotional concept around fluid bonding, and that it does feel intimate to me. I would consider it if we had a third person in a closed V or something, but not really into him fluid bonding with his f-k buddies...

Infinity said:
Hi RiverGoddess,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but why do you feel you have to give up on a desire to have children, just because your current partner doesn't want them? I believe desires are sacred and we should never, ever give up on them - sometimes it's just a matter of looking for a different way around or being open to it happening in different ways than we previously expected. After all, once you have a deep desire, it's part of you and it's never truly going to go away, even if you try to suppress it for someone else.

My understanding of poly is that it means you don't HAVE to follow the traditional relationship route. That means, there's lots of options for you to have children, and this partner doesn't have to, and you can still be together. For example, what if:

You had another primary partner, who wanted children, and you had children with him and current partner became like an uncle or godfather?

You and primary partner didn't live together anymore, and you adopted or had children through a sperm donar, and raised them alone, or with a good friend who also wanted to be part of a child's life?

I'm sure there are other options available as well, some sort of picture where you are a mother, but he's not a father, and you stay together (but maybe not living together if he doesn't want kids in the house where he lives). I'm just saying, you don't have to give up on your dreams...

And how freeing would it feel to both you *and him* if you were able to say to him, and mean, "I am still going to be a mother, because that's what I've decided. And when that time comes, I understand you don't want to be a father, so I won't make you responsible to fill that role, but I'd still like you to have to role of my partner. It will mean we'll need to renogotiate some things, like living arrangements, but I just want you to know I'll rearrange things so I can have children and still be a present and loving partner to you as well as a present and loving mother to them."

And then, just open up to the possibility of how that might happen...there are, I'm sure, paths to what you want that you haven't even seen yet.

After all, if you were a single mother (or partnered with someone else) when you started dating him, it wouldn't mean he would have had to become daddy to your kids. He might have just become partner to you, and a friend to them (but not paternal figure). So it's definitely possible to have an arrangement where two people are partners, one has kids but the other one does not relate to those kids as their parent.
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Trust me, I have definitely explored this option. He has stated that he is absolutely open to me having children with someone else, and staying partners. He would just live in a different house than myself and my children.

The thing is, at this time, I don't want that. If I find myself with a second partner and our bond inspires children, well then, I will consider it then. But for now I am not going out and looking for a new partner who wants kids, and I am imagining my life as I have been building it with him. We share a home, a business, a spiritual practice, we are very enmeshed. At this time, I would rather not have them than have them with someone else. That would only change if the really right person showed up, who offered many of the things I want in a partner & father, and totally accepting of my relationship with D and his place in my life. Seems unlikely, seeing as I live in a small village of like... 300 people :p I am open to it, but not seeking it out.
 
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That's awesome :) so you haven't given up in being a mother, you just don't see the path to it at the moment. Well, stay open minded, the universe has ways of surprising you :)
 
RiverGoddess said:
I also told him that part of the problem is that he can't even figure out what he likes about her, then what is he doing with her? It's not fair to her. I want to see her through his eyes, as that is often what makes me like my lover's lovers. This is the part I am challenged on. If he came home thrilled about a wonderful, beautiful, fun and generous woman that he was all flitty about, I would be more inclined to work with him on making space for her in our life.
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Hi River Goddess,

I am kinda late to this party. But here's my $0.02 worth.

One of the reasons he is attracted to her is because she isn't you. I understand you want him to be attracted to other people like yourself, who share your values, goals, etc. "a wonderful, beautiful, fun and generous woman". Probably because it validates who you are and his attraction to you.

But, its the variety that he finds attractive. An example from my past. I was married for 10 years to a very small petite woman, 5 foot and <110 pounds. I couldn't wait to be with a woman who was "full figured". Part of attraction is someone new and different.

Be assured he is still attracted to you and all the great qualities you have.

Matou
 
Hello RiverGoddess,

It sounds like you are getting to a little better of a place as far as how you feel about your partner's odd behavior. I think the key thing is to consider what *your* needs are in the relationship, and just ask for those things ... rather than getting all tangled up in whether his other relationship meets his or your standards. That's for him to figure out.

I hope you'll keep us posted as time goes on.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
MrMatou said:
Hi River Goddess,

I am kinda late to this party. But here's my $0.02 worth.

One of the reasons he is attracted to her is because she isn't you. I understand you want him to be attracted to other people like yourself, who share your values, goals, etc. "a wonderful, beautiful, fun and generous woman". Probably because it validates who you are and his attraction to you.

But, its the variety that he finds attractive. An example from my past. I was married for 10 years to a very small petite woman, 5 foot and <110 pounds. I couldn't wait to be with a woman who was "full figured". Part of attraction is someone new and different.

Be assured he is still attracted to you and all the great qualities you have.

Matou
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Thank you. This is what he keeps telling me and what I think I am having a hard time really grasping. He has stated from day 1 that he needs variety. I have also seen how diverse his taste is in women, so I do know this. I appreciate your chiming in on this because it is a good reminder that that can be a fairly common desire for men (and probably women, too).

kdt26417 said:
Hello RiverGoddess,

It sounds like you are getting to a little better of a place as far as how you feel about your partner's odd behavior. I think the key thing is to consider what *your* needs are in the relationship, and just ask for those things ... rather than getting all tangled up in whether his other relationship meets his or your standards. That's for him to figure out.

I hope you'll keep us posted as time goes on.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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Thanks. Yes I have relaxed into things. He comes home tonight from his week away at work, and I am going to greet him warmly and lovingly, and allow him to settle into his time at home without immediate conflict. We can talk about all this when it is the natural time. I am so grateful to this forum for helping me through the "crisis" moment and helping me shift into a better perspective.

As you suggested, I do feel clear on what my needs are now. The list went from long and full of fear at first, to only three points which I feel are very practical, once revised from a more grounded and open outlook.

Thanks. I will definitely be sticking around the forums and keeping y'all updated!
 
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