Rough weekend

B

bruceisthecat

New member
A discussion around how to start divorce proceedings today was started by my ex. This isn't a surprise we have been separated for over a year. It was a 5 year marriage that had some really good times and lot of bad ones, we both had a lot of shit, we didn't own it, didn't fix it or manage it. By the end I felt like i needed to experience other people, considering how rough our relationship was at that time its hard to convince myself if I needed that because i have a poly mindset or because who i was with wasn't a good fit anymore. I shared these desires with her prior to leaving, they weren't accepted... probably for the best in hindsight. If your core relationship isn't working it's probably not a good idea to expand. Since that time i haven't really had a long term stable partner, often by choice, i never had the chance to explore. The truth is a still care for my ex, in a moment of vulnerability i told her so a couple weeks ago. Suggested that maybe we could date or something take it slow, see how it goes. I did it because i've seen how much the counseling she has had really improved her disorder, and because a couple months ago she suggested we start up again and put poly on the table (the conversation essentially went unfinished as i was in a relationship at the time i did not want to end) and because we have a son and the thought of us all living together was one that made me happy. But as we went deep into our discussion about getting back together this time she said that she wanted a mono relationship with the potential to expand in the future, maybe, but that is wasn't something i shouldn't count on. I was confused by this sudden change the last several conversations we had on the topic she was more open, she advised that she didn't want it to be the reason i'm with her. I told her its only a factor not the reason. But her terms stood there and she didn't want to drag on the conversation too long as it would be too painful so she asked that i make my decision by the end of the week.

On deadline day, driving to the parking lot that we meet at halfway from each others houses (to drop exchange the kiddo) i continued thinking heavily on the matter as i had done all week. Can i be satisfied with one? Should i just sacrifice for the sake of family. I was leaning towards the sad but realistic no. But standing in front of her it was difficult to say. If the answer was no, that was it, it's all over. I felt myself buckling. I then saw an attractive woman get out of a car near us and once again considered the likelihood of me being okay with being with one person for the rest of my life. After a long delay i gave her my answer, i'm sorry but no, got in my car and drove away.

I'm an ex catholic, trust me when i say i feel incredibly guilty about this decision... I wonder constantly if making the sacrifice is the right thing to do. I try to consider how i could become a better person and want to do that.

I consider how desiring open or poly limits the people i get to date and wonder if life would just be easier if i stayed mono.

She sent me an article today entitled "do you know what its like to be in love with a man whore". She said she just wanted to be understood.
 
bruceisthecat said:
She sent me an article today entitled "do you know what its like to be in love with a man whore". She said she just wanted to be understood.
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Well, I'm sitting way over here, & I can clearly see that this is a passive-aggressive slap, & certainly not a means of continuing the conversation, & directly countering her overt idea that you two "start up again." Has she ALWAYS been like that? Is this a symptomatic act of "her disorder"?

Okay, so I can see where YOU are rationalising a lot about your behavior, then & now, but I get the impression that BOTH of you are a little messed up. Like, I wouldn't be surprised that the "halfway from each others houses" hostage-exchange point :rolleyes: has been measured out down to the yard (if not the foot) because one or both of you is weird about imaginary territory.

She gave you an ultimatum. In your heart, you cannot agree fully AND honestly with her core demands. Either commit virtual lobotomy & cut the unacceptable parts out of your mind, or admit that the relationship cannot (at this point) be what you once thought it was. Don't feel guilt about being a responsible adult rather than a dewy-eyed lovestruck kid.

FWIW, I hate ultimatums -- even if the conditions are totally acceptable, I refuse to put up with petty dictators because IME they get emboldened by their "success" & always end up invading Poland. :D
 
some fair points

Ravenscroft said:
Well, I'm sitting way over here, & I can clearly see that this is a passive-aggressive slap, & certainly not a means of continuing the conversation, & directly countering her overt idea that you two "start up again." Has she ALWAYS been like that? Is this a symptomatic act of "her disorder"?

Okay, so I can see where YOU are rationalising a lot about your behavior, then & now, but I get the impression that BOTH of you are a little messed up. Like, I wouldn't be surprised that the "halfway from each others houses" hostage-exchange point :rolleyes: has been measured out down to the yard (if not the foot) because one or both of you is weird about imaginary territory.

She gave you an ultimatum. In your heart, you cannot agree fully AND honestly with her core demands. Either commit virtual lobotomy & cut the unacceptable parts out of your mind, or admit that the relationship cannot (at this point) be what you once thought it was. Don't feel guilt about being a responsible adult rather than a dewy-eyed lovestruck kid.

FWIW, I hate ultimatums -- even if the conditions are totally acceptable, I refuse to put up with petty dictators because IME they get emboldened by their "success" & always end up invading Poland. :D
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The article did feel like a bit of a slap, i try to view it a little more optimistically and just consider that this is just how she feels and she wants me to understand her more. I don't know how close to reality that thought it.

Her Disorder does come with abandonment issues, there haven't been many times in the separation process where i felt that she didn't want to get back together though the latest conversation on the topic was sparked by a mutual "friend" (nuisance really) that suggested to her that i had remaining feelings for her and encouraged her to have a conversation with me about that.

I'm quite clear on your rationalizing comment. As far the halfway thing, its' not like that. We chose a spot that was roughly halfway. We live about 40 minutes apart. It just seemed more practical to meet halfway. If either of us can't meet for whatever reason the other usually makes the full journey without much fuss. I must admit separated we actually get along quite well. We aren't the type to talk badly about each other to the kiddo. We split custody all that good stuff. As for territory, we invite each other over occasionally for family events, sometimes just to hand out.

Not a big fan of ultimatums either, but i suppose everyone has a line in the sand somewhere.

And its the virtual lobotomy that i'm considering, i don't suppose you know anyone who does the procedure?
 
Hi bruceisthecat,

Just wanted to express my sympathies, I know it can't be easy to split with someone when you were together with them for so long. I don't know whether you made the easiest decision, but I think it was the best decision for all concerned. You and your ex can hopefully remain friends even if you're not spouses.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi bruceisthecat,

Just wanted to express my sympathies, I know it can't be easy to split with someone when you were together with them for so long. I don't know whether you made the easiest decision, but I think it was the best decision for all concerned. You and your ex can hopefully remain friends even if you're not spouses.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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Appreciate the kind words Kevin
 
Since you have a kid together you will always be in each other's lives. When you drove away you didn't drive away forever.

I think you did what was right for you right now.

I was in a similar situation to you once, except we didn't have kids. We got along much better once we were seperated. We both were dating others. It was so awesome we decided to get back together...mono. We didn't even discuss poly at that point. That came way later. But it was like we both sowed some oats, but missed what we had together.

My advice, if you'd like to get back with her, is to work on your problems together before you work on doing poly together.
 
Ravenscroft said:
She gave you an ultimatum. .....Don't feel guilt about being a responsible adult rather than a dewy-eyed lovestruck kid.

....I hate ultimatums -- even if the conditions are totally acceptable, I refuse to put up with petty dictators....
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What is the difference between an ultimatum and stating what one needs and wants in order to stay in a relationship? Does she have any right to say that she wants monogamy and chooses not to be in an open relationship?

Define 'responsible adult.'
 
I would also define it as knowing the difference between can't deliver and won't deliver.

I would define it as knowing what choices are vitally important and impact others around you, especially your children.
 
Manwhore

I hadn't heard the term "manwhore" before but if you think that it's not a slap in the face, think again. Talk about loaded!!

I did a little research, there are a number of articles about "manwhores" and the general idea is that it's a promiscuous man who has no regard for his sexual partners or the emotional value of his relationships.

Because, y'know, if we were real men and not using "poly" as a cover, we'd be monogamous.
 
sdguitarguy said:
I hadn't heard the term "manwhore" before but if you think that it's not a slap in the face, think again. Talk about loaded!!

I did a little research, there are a number of articles about "manwhores" and the general idea is that it's a promiscuous man who has no regard for his sexual partners or the emotional value of his relationships.

Because, y'know, if we were real men and not using "poly" as a cover, we'd be monogamous.
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Yeah, and the term feels very close to slut shaming which I'm not a fan of either
 
I would not have put it that way, but I did wonder what was behind the "children" comment. Has something untoward happened in WhatHappened's life? I have kids so mention of impact on kids makes my ears prick up.

Leetah
 
I'm sorry.
I suppose only time will tell if poly is truly necessary for you. And maybe you won't ever know if this decision was "right", but it sound true for you in the moment.

Ravenscroft said:
So... you're saying that you've judged bruceisthecat & decided he really IS a self-absorbed manwhore AND he's putting his children at risk.

:confused:
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That's a really big jump. I don't think she's saying that. Could be as well ment to back up the wife in her decision not to get together with a man whom she will abandone again if he can't be monogamous ... or in a dozen of other ways.
 
Also worth noting

It's also worth noting that while i care for her, i don't really know if my emotions supersede that feeling. Our marriage was rough to say the least. she had a tremendous amount of depression. To her own admission she was generally unhappy most of the time (no cause that she could determine, other than medical) Suicide was a consistent possibility for her, ive personally had to wrestle a knife from her 4 times. I remember my routine driving home, sincerely preparing myself for the possibility that when i arrive home from work she will either be dead or missing. (because of the depression and social anxiety she couldn't work for 90% of our marriage, and didn't really have friends, so if she wasn't home than something was wrong). I really couldn't hang out with friends very often, she said i could, but i would find myself in trouble suddenly if i didn't respond to her texts enough or if i came home late. i couldnt remotely compliment any other female without being trouble.

To be fair to her she was willing and did seek medical helewp for these things but the changes these made seemed fairly insignificant. Major changes never seemed to happen until i left, she finally got a job that she stayed in more than 2 weeks, and the dialogue we were having while separated seemed a lot more friendly and nicer than it had been when we were together. (also i know i made mistakes in how to manage all of these things so i don't claim that this was a marriage with one sided problems)

I say all this because aside from potential ideological differences I think part of me is afraid to dive back into something that i had so much trouble leaving in the first place.
 
That does sound like a rough marriage. :(
 
Tinwen said:
Could be as well ment to back up the wife in her decision not to get together with a man whom she will abandone again if he can't be monogamous ... or in a dozen of other ways.
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Not clarifying. If you read the thread:
bruceisthecat said:
a couple months ago she suggested we start up again
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To me, that kinda suggests it was her idea. As you see it otherwise, please explain.

I'm guessing she knew he's vulnerable to the "do it for the kid!" subtext.

He extended an olive branch, "let's start over." She was interested... but monogamously, & the dangled carrot of "maybe someday I'll let you."

When he held his ground, she chose to try burning the bridge, by giving him that article. "She said she just wanted to be understood."

As the passive aggression is clear, I figure her next move will be to tearfully plead "that wasn't how I meant it!!!"

I get the impression that if the story were the same & the genders reversed, everybody'd be cheering for the woman's newfound sense of liberation from the strictures of patriarchy... :rolleyes:

Anyone want to actually step up & tell him he should be a mensch, knuckle under to her demands (& those that'll likely follow to punish him for straying), & fake being a model husband for the next 15 years or so?
 
Ravenscroft said:
Not clarifying. If you read the thread:

To me, that kinda suggests it was her idea. As you see it otherwise, please explain.

I'm guessing she knew he's vulnerable to the "do it for the kid!" subtext.

He extended an olive branch, "let's start over." She was interested... but monogamously, & the dangled carrot of "maybe someday I'll let you."

When he held his ground, she chose to try burning the bridge, by giving him that article. "She said she just wanted to be understood."

As the passive aggression is clear, I figure her next move will be to tearfully plead "that wasn't how I meant it!!!"

I get the impression that if the story were the same & the genders reversed, everybody'd be cheering for the woman's newfound sense of liberation from the strictures of patriarchy... :rolleyes:

Anyone want to actually step up & tell him he should be a mensch, knuckle under to her demands (& those that'll likely follow to punish him for straying), & fake being a model husband for the next 15 years or so?
Click to expand...

I lot of this feels accurate
 
Ravenscroft said:
So... you're saying that you've judged bruceisthecat & decided he really IS a self-absorbed manwhore AND he's putting his children at risk.

:confused:
Click to expand...

Tinwen said:
I'm sorry.
That's a really big jump. I don't think she's saying that. Could be as well ment to back up the wife in her decision not to get together with a man whom she will abandon again if he can't be monogamous ... or in a dozen of other ways.
Click to expand...

Agreed, that's a HUGE leap.

Somewhere in here, the wife has been portrayed as 'giving ultimatums.' Why is it an ultimatum to say, "Here's what *I* want and need in a relationship...can you provide that?" If that's an ultimatum, then it's an ultimatum for every single person who has said it, ever...whether they are mono (I want and need mono...are you in?) or poly (I want and need poly...are you in?)

Leetah said:
I would not have put it that way, but I did wonder what was behind the "children" comment. Has something untoward happened in WhatHappened's life? I have kids so mention of impact on kids makes my ears prick up.
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What happens to the children should be first and foremost on every parent's mind. As adults--in my humble opinion--it is our duty to protect, safeguard, and do our best for our children. Because we are the adults. It is our job to care for them, even when that means setting aside our own desires. I get up and go to work, clean the house, and keep going when I'm exhausted, getting them to school and camps and practices and rehearsals, for the sake of my children, because it matters to the quality of their lives--not just today, but for decades to come.

If you're looking for something untoward, my ex-husband's choices have harmed my children. I live daily with the results of his choices on all of us. But if he'd been a perfect husband and father, my belief, that we as adults are called to do the best for our children, would be the same.

That being said, bruce is adding to the story. Is his lack of desire for monogamy with her because he is poly at heart and/or wants the opportunity to sleep with many women, as it first appeared, or is it because there are such problems with her, personally, that maintaining a relationship with her would be untenable in the long run, anyway?
 
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