Writer seeking help to make a poly relationship dynamic feel authentic (1/2)

OGIHR

New member
I am working on an adventure story with a four-person romantic group (three up front, one more joining during the story proper) in the main cast, and it is my intention to present their relationship as happy, stable, loving, and mutually-supportive; not as a fountain of angst for the sake of angst. However, I do not have experiences from my own life to draw upon to write any sort of groupsome romance in an authentic manner. Thus, I am seeking the input of this forum's community.

Warning: the following wall of text is not for the faint of heart.

The story is a science fiction reinterpretation of Norse Mythology (set FAR earlier on the mythic timeline than most works based on the sagas, with Tyr still being King, Odin having only just returned a changed man by his ordeal in the branches of the Yggdrasil, and Thor not even being numbered among the gods yet, so Ragnarok isn't even a glimmer on the horizon). Only two of my main characters coming from mundane modern Earth, while all other significant characters being native to my fantastical Asgard. And in that fantastical world, there shall be no social stigma within the setting applied to the polygonal nature of the relationship. No angst just for the sake of having angst; in case you can't tell, I prefer writing happy stories.

In terms of the shape of the romantic relationship, I'm diagramming it as a pair of overlapping Vs, with additional connections developing over time. One of the component Vs is derived directly from the fact that in the mythic sagas, Thor's sons were evidently raised in the same house despite explicitly having different mothers (yielding a F-M-F arrangement)‎. But since the latter two characters come from a modern American setting, I chose to add another V (F-F-M; note the F hinge) up front to establish the cultural precedent for such a polygamous arrangement to be legally recognized in the Aesir culture of my fantastical world.

Specifically, in their culture, it is the woman's prerogative to propose marriage to the man she chooses to be the father of her children. If that man is already married, it's not a dealbreaker but rather a calculated risk, weighing his value as a gene-source and provider against his obligations to the other wife and her children. Similarly, if a woman chooses not to (yet/ever) offer her arm-ring to any man, then that is her choice to make as well.

The counterpoint however is that the ancient Norse culture was quite sexist in associating specific virtues with each gender, which factors in to their practice of citing a close familial relationship to receive the benefit of the doubt on any given matter; placing children raised by either a single parent or a same-sex couple at a severe handicap at earning the respect of their community. It is a double standard which I do not approve at all, but as a writer I have the integrity not to whitewash over the flaws of their society.

So, in the simplest possible nomenclature, I have four characters in this story's romance: A, B, C, and later-joining D.

A is Hnoss, the daughter of Freyja by Odin, and a character who conspicuously appears only as a child in the preserved sagas. I have chosen to interpret this as evidence of selective editing, and cast A as a lesbian. She has no particular dislike of male people/anatomy; it's just that what A's actively attracted to are women like her mother (gender-flipping a classic trope). She defines herself as a career soldier first (specifically a Valkyrie, fully qualified on all the Aesir hypertech gear that accounts for their folkloric capabilities) and a woman second. She has no desire to birth children of her own (her younger sister Gersemi having already provided the grandchildren for Freyja), and is quite happy to be stepmother-since-conception to her wife B's children.

B is Sif, who is Thor's wife of record in the mythic sagas (a connection I'll be obscuring by having her state that it's a very common name for girls among her people), but is A's primary in my story. Unlike her wife however, B actively enjoys both sides of the menu, and is enthusiastic about the full experience of motherhood, including having a husband in her bed. B's skillset in the adventure story is that of a Vanir Sorceress (with a focus on prophecy, weather control, and fertility), while her role in the romance is that of the "harem seeker", being the character who actively pursues each expansion of the relationship, from two partners to three and then later to four.

A+B have been together happily and healthily for years (maybe even decades, given A's ready access to the golden apples of immortality) , and they spent a long time looking for their own variety of unicorn. A man who would be both worthy of being the father of B's children and able to accept being her secondary lover despite them having children together. A man who understands that his wearing A's arm-ring doesn't mean she'll ever feel the same way her wife does about him, but rather A+B's matching arm-rings are a symbolic gesture of their marriage to each other, above and beyond their bond to the husband they share.

They found their unicorn in C, my version of Thor, an Earthling young man named Tony Saxon. Having grown up learning about social values from Star Trek (including both Will Riker and Jadzia Dax's parables about the validity of non-straight romance), C couldn't understand why anyone could think less of a child for having two mommies or two daddies instead of one of each, and his incredulity at this double standard in Aesir culture is what made A believe that the superhumanly strong visitor from a heavy-gravity world called Earth would be worth introducing to her wife.

Introductions led to approval, to wooing, and to contingent proposals. And since at the time C had no leads toward any way back to his homeworld, he accepted their arm-rings (custom-made to interlock on his arm for added symbolic value), and the three of them are officially married by the laws of Aesir society.

And let me be clear on this, while A does define herself as not a fan of the beefcake, she does feel a great love and respect for her husband (otherwise she'd have exercised her veto rights and not let him become their husband), both as a warrior she can rely upon to always do his superhuman part in the thick of combat, and as a genuinely good person away from the battlefield. Neither of which qualities have anything to do with his gender. And so there will be moments, during groupsome intimacies, when A feels inclined to make their relationship a little more... equilateral than she is normally comfortable with. While C understands that it's only in those moments that there's a sexual (rather than chastely-romantic) component to his relationship with A.

However, A+B know that it's not really fair to their husband C, that he doesn't have anyone to be truly in love with him like the way they are with each other. So when C finally has the opportunity at the start of the story proper to go back home and let his loved ones know he hasn't been dead for the past nine months (just a visit, as he takes seriously both his marriage and his career as a super-strong giantslayer), that's when my story proper begins.

TO BE CONTINUED
 
I have no poly experience but the way you have laid out the story so far sounds great. I am an avid sci-fi reader and I would love to read your story once completed.

Good luck!
 
Writer seeking help to make a poly relationship dynamic feel authentic (2/2)

CONTINUED FROM ABOVE

Enter D, my version of Jarnsaxa (mother of Thor's son Magni), an Earthling young woman named Jane (her last name is a placeholder, as Carter is a bit too on-the-nose for a story with earthlings becoming superhuman warriors in a low-gravity world). D has been C's next door neighbor and best friend for most of their young lives, and it was she who introduced him to the glories of Star Trek. And unbeknownst to her cohorts, she's actually the focus of my story's main plot.

D has always been extraordinarily lucky in her roll of the genetic dice, because it wasn't a random roll at all. Her genome was custom-designed by an Asgardian mad scientist villain with a genetic engineering lab and a mind transfer machine, to be the perfect new body for him/herself. Then deployed to an ethnically-plausible couple employing IVF treatments on a known high-gravity world, so that when the subject was sufficiently matured she could be retrieved and utilized as the villain's new body, designed to be naturally gorgeous, athletic, and intelligent, with sharp senses and compelling pheromones, and the superhuman strength to be unstoppable physically as well as socially. And the basis of my story lies in the side-effects of the various complications that arise to the villain's plan.

During the months that C has been gone, D has undergone what she refers to as "the growth spurt from hell", distorting her athletic figure into a topheavy caricature out of a videogame (due to a genetically-coded trigger to a specific radiation signal which was part of the original retrieval plan), causing a lot of people to assume an oversexed persona to accompany her new proportions, and doing no favors for her athletic endeavors (varsity volleyball + cheerleading; luckily her chosen martial art, Tai Chi Chuan, doesn't involve so much jumping about). None of which will be quite so unpleasant once D travels to a low-gravity world with an extant fertility god/dess population to shift the expectations of normal vs gawk-worthy.

D's also found herself seriously re-examining her feelings for her best friend C, and upon his reappearance, she resolves to transition their friendship into a romance. Not having any idea that he's gotten married during his absence, let alone to two women from another world. And thus D can't really understand that instead of being the rival who stole C away from her, B actually wants for D to become C's primary, thereby creating an odd sort of symmetry to the groupsome relationship.

It's also worth pointing out that D is no more interested in the cheesecake than A is in the beefcake, so while there's little doubt in anyone's minds that she can form a sexual relationship with C without damaging their lifelong friendship, it's her lack of comfort with her two would-be wives that provides the only significant conflict within the foursome's relationship dynamic.

That said, I do vastly prefer writing happy stories. So the endgame I have in mind is dependent on the assumption that the foursome proves happy, stable, loving, and mutually-supportive, both as a closed group marriage and as a tactical squad fighting Asgard's enemies (with D learning proper combat swordsmanship using a bath'leth she "borrows" from her father's Trek memorabilia collection -- because the set of antlers which Freyr fights with come Ragnarok have to had come from somewhere).

Thus I see D's romantic self-definition changing over time from "happily heterosexual" to "flexible for special circumstances within the context of our marriage", to simply "happily married". And I see the foursome raising their children together as one family regardless of birth-parentage (so that my versions of Magni and Modhi and Thrud are all simply siblings to one another, with B and D likely being quite casual about breastfeeding each other's babies, once they've each had one).

Before I finish, a quick aside about any possible concerns regarding the "one penis policy" issue inherent in the mythic plot details I'm deriving from. I mentioned this previously in another thread, but I shall remind readers that A's father, Odin, will be prominently featured in the backdrop of my story, as it is the succession crisis of Tyr ceding power and Odin rising to claim it which prompts C's sudden return to Asgard with D (and A+B) in tow. And I am using the version of Odin who was a practitioner of the Seidr sorcerous arts, including certain ritual acts that include the receiving of semen.

So upon his return from the branches of the Yggdrasil as a changed man, Odin leaves his wife (A's mother Freyja), and starts spending day and night with Loki instead (who in the mythic rather than Marvel version, was much closer to Odin in both age and camaraderie, making him significantly more like an uncle who provides alcohol to his nephew's underage party, rather than an outright villain). So yes, in this story, Odin, very soon arising to be King of the Aesir, is Loki's boyfriend. That should demonstrate amply that one-sided homophobia is not a problem that I have.

So, now that you've hopefully read at least some of this exceedingly verbose (just the way my brain works, sad to say) glimpse into the four-person relationship which I plan to put on the pages of my story. I invite you all to offer any advice you wish, in the interests of making it as authentic as I'm able. Anything you think I should highlight, add in, avoid, or whatever.

Thank you for your patience.

THE END, THANK GOD (grins)
 
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Hi OGIHR,

To me your narrative looks plausible enough, particularly when given the special circumstances of your science fiction/mythical setting. To make for a very successful "N" (two merged V's), you might want to make all four persons strong communicators with healthy phsyches. If you decide to add any conflict for story development, you could make one or two of the four weak communicators, and/or carriers of past baggage, and/or conflict avoiders (or conflict overdoers). Common themes that come up in Polyamory.com (keeping in mind that people with problems tend to be the people who turn to the forum, for advice/help) are, jealousy, time management, competition (conscious or subconscious), personality clash (e.g. one person is an extrovert and wants kitchen table poly, another person is an introvert and wants compartmentalization), and more.

From my own experience, I found that my V (MFM) had far more difficulties in the early years, and evolved to be much more stable and comfortable in recent years. Sometimes people have to learn how to mesh (by trial and error); sometimes people (like me) have to try various prescription meds until finding one (like Zyprexa) that works. In your story, you could substitute magic potions for medications, if you decide to use that factor in your story.

Certainly you don't have to use all (or any for that matter) of the conflict elements I've mentioned. I guess my thought is that you want your composite (V/N) relationship to have "enough" bugs to make it believable, without giving it so many bugs that it's a soap opera (and is not very believable). Also a relationship is an opportunity for plot development. Your N can have a happy ending after some conflict and escalation, in addition to the physical conflict of the trio's/quartet's battles with physical enemies. It's of course up to you how you balance that all out. You can give the composite relationship minimal conflict if you want but you might want to give it a little, just for seasoning.

Those are some of my initial thoughts anyway. One of your objectives as a storyteller is to maintain the reader's interest level. This is why I suggest seasoning your relationships with a bit of conflict, otherwise the reader might become bored of that aspect. To be fair, an overload of drama will also bore most readers. So there is a balance to strike there, and certainly a minimal amount of conflict might be right for your story. I am mostly saying all this to give you some food for thought.

It sounds like you have the makings of a very cool and interesting story. I wish you well as you piece it all together and add ever more details. If you end up with a published book I'll see if I can buy a copy. Keep us posted on how your efforts are progressing. I'll try to add more ideas if I can think of some.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I love the concept and the fact that you are researching poly for the story, but as a heathen I cannot agree with it. I practice asatru and some of the information you have included is wrong. I would love to read a story like this and I encourage you to write it, but some of the stuff that is said will turn off people who do follow the Norse ideas. I am not an expert and I'm still learning but if you need more info on how to research it I would love to assist. My husband is currently studying to be a Gothi, so he can better assist if you would like
 
I love the concept and the fact that you are researching poly for the story, but as a heathen I cannot agree with it. I practice asatru and some of the information you have included is wrong. I would love to read a story like this and I encourage you to write it, but some of the stuff that is said will turn off people who do follow the Norse ideas. I am not an expert and I'm still learning but if you need more info on how to research it I would love to assist. My husband is currently studying to be a Gothi, so he can better assist if you would like

I am admittedly not an expert either, but please share your concerns with me. The possible issues I see are as follows:

0. my dropping my science fiction into your religion, in the "chocolate and peanut butter" sense.
1. Thor being given an origin story that predates having either his magic hammer / belt / glove(s) or access to the golden apples; similarly his status as a son of Odin being interpreted as relation by marriage rather than by birth, which doesn't seem that controversial to me given the obviously-not-literal title of Allfather for Odin.
2. Hnoss having an adulthood; similarly the conclusion I've drawn that Freyja's lost husband, for whom she weeps tears of gold, is the man Odin used to be before his ordeal on the branches of the Yggdrasil left him a changed man. However, Freyja being queen of the Valkyries, I can't fathom an objection to one of her daughters growing up to be one.
3. Sif not already having a son Ullar when she married Thor; this one I admit I'm ignoring the lore on, mostly because step-fatherhood would require a higher level of maturity than I wish for my main protagonist to already possess at the start of his story.
4. the word Loki being interpreted not as a given name of a single character, but rather as an accomplishment-rank meaning "Nobel Prize in being a cunning bastard" (for evidence, see Thor's Journey to Utgard, in which Loki #1 and Utgardsloki-the-Loki-of-Utgard explicitly have conversation with one another). So, rather than being magically shapeshifters, I'm envisioning Lokis as mad scientists, with Asgardsloki (also known as Loki #1, Odin's blood-brother) being renowned as a genetic engineer (thus his three children with Angrboda being so wildly divergent in form/nature compared to his two children with Sigyn) with a proven mind-transfer technology.
5. the term "giantblooded" being a false-cognate for "heavy gravity worlder", within my science-fiction context.
6. the simple fact that my love for Norse Mythology comes from my love of Klingon culture, which is also why Jane's chosen martial art is Tai Chi Chuan, which is what Dan Curry adapted Worf's mok'bara martial arts from.
7. the interpretation that Odin's practice of the Seidr makes a case for a habit of Ergi as well in his later years, which is the basis for my placing him into a relationship with his Loki.
8. the simple fact that I'm setting my story's timeframe much earlier than standard, with much of the recorded-as-past-tense tales being in the characters' futures; I consider it as being a case of Prophecy being a two-way street. Asymmetrical chronal procession between parallel universes results in there being worlds out there whose past includes a moment equal to your present; find such a world and then look less-far into its past, and you gain knowledge of your own (likely rather than certain) future. Thus, ancient Prophecy-wielders on Earth recorded the tales of what they saw in a version of Asgard (as best as they understood them, with Clarke's Law being firmly in play), while this version of Asgard hasn't gotten there yet.
[EDIT] 9. my inclusion of the theory derived from the classical Roman scholar Tacitus's "Germania" treatise (which described Mars-the-swordsman as a higher-placed god than One-Eyed-Mercury in his understanding of the contemporary beliefs of the Germanic peoples), as an explanation for why Tyr is featured so minorly in the preserved myths, but so abundantly in the archaeological record from the (pretty sure) 8th century and earlier. The idea being that when the Norse/Germanic pagan people were still nomadic warrior tribes, their highest-esteemed god was The Incomparable Duelist, but as they developed agriculture and a concern with property rights, the god of literacy rose in prominence, and thus Odin's focus shifted from poetry (which was later handed off to Bragi) and berserk fury (which was later handed off to Hodhur), to sorcery and social-manipulation. Which I'm taking and framing in my story as Tyr having been King until he lost his hand, and then Odin rises to the forefront, having recently gained new wisdom during his ordeal in the branches of the Yggdrasil.

I do not wish to offend anyone, mono or poly or asatru or christian or atheist or sci-fi or fantasy. So please let me know if any of those are the points that upset you, or if it's something I've missed.

Also, Kevin, I've not forgotten about your input; I've just been resolved to let a wider net come in on the poly-relationship-dynamic concerns before I press forward on that front.

Thank you.
 
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No worries, mate :)
 
I've spent some time stuck babysitting my sister's children, and having my work schedule changed around from day shifts to night shifts. But now I'm back to working on my Utgardr story. Yay?

Healthy psyches and strong communication skills. Not a problem. Both of the Asgardian women in this story's core relationship were raised the Aesir-Vanir society which I've previously stated has a spectacular lack of mono-normative bias. The most obvious example is the rather infamous case of Freyja paying for custom-designed jewelry with serial copulation with the various smiths involved in the design, but I think the Lokasenna offers the more interesting precedent, since it's the last vestige of many other stories which were not preserved in the written record. At one point, when Freyja is accused of having been caught "astride her brother", their father interjects that there's nothing shameful in a married woman having partners (likely in the "fertility god ritual sorcery" sense, rather than an incestuously-romantic or "best friends with benefits" sense) other than her husband. Which clearly shows that it just wasn't considered a big deal in that culture. And since both Hnoss and Sif were raised with Vanir values, I see neither one having any baggage to speak of, although Sif (the Sorceress, labeled B above) might be a bit of a conflict-avoider, given her placid characterization in the myths I'm familiar with (and my choice to cast her as the harem-seeker in my scenario).

On the other hand, the earthling woman Jane is definitely going to be hauling some baggage of her cultural assumptions regarding what constitutes "natural" and "deviant" in the romantic arena. She is still a born Trekkie, and a firm believer in the beauty of the Vulcan philosophy of embracing infinite diversity in infinite combinations, but despite the best of intentions, it's never easy setting aside one's preconceptions when it comes to what is or is not "natural". It's not admirable, but it is human.

But regarding being strong communicators, Hnoss (the Valkyrie, labeled A above) is the daughter of both Freyja and Odin, while my earthlings are definitely more like LaForge than Barclay, more Martok than Worf...

>General Martok> "I tell you, Worf, without shame, there were days in that prison camp when the thought that I would never again set foot on a Klingon vessel made me weep like an old woman. "
>Commander Worf> "I envy you the days ahead. It will be a glorious adventure. "

...So the only drama-contributing conflict I see in the process of the triangle becoming a quad is Sif's difficulty in getting past Jane's preconceptions to make it clear that rather than being the "other woman" who stole Tony away from her, Sif's intention is actively to share him with her, so that the groupsome relationship dynamic can be more symmetrical and thus more fair to all parties concerned.

So, to Kevin, Amitola, Justame, and anyone else who might wish to respond, please tell me what you think. Does that sound like it's drama-fuel enough to keep the romance subplot from boring my readers, in a story that also includes superhuman protagonists waging war on giants, a radical shift in the Asgardian political landscape, and a mad scientist actively engineering opportunities to steal the body of one of the main protagonists?
 
Hi OGIHR,

Your story line seems to lack nothing in terms of excitement, and you probably won't need to put a lot of emphasis on the relationship part. Though it might be worth noting, there could be baggage other than the monogamy-bias kind. I've found that often on Polyamory.com, people come seeking help for things that could happen in a monogamous situation, just as easily as a nonmonogamous situation. Sometimes it's past abuse/conditioning, sometimes it's genetic. You may have to stretch past what information is presently available in recorded legend, and there you may rub legend purists the wrong way, in case they say, "The legends never said anything about that." Perhaps the legends did say something about that, and we just don't have a record of it.

And even if that's not the case, legends often paint things with broad strokes, whereas you'll be painting in detail. Even if we did have a complete record of the legends, there might still be things you'd like to add, which is okay in my mind because you're not merely repeating what we know about the legends, you're casting a shadow of those legends in a science-fiction saga. This could mean that not everything has to conform to known legend/saga structure, you have some freedom here.

Hmmm, what are some examples of personal dysfunctions that don't relate to nonmonogamy. Gender roles; men are always the breadwinners while women are always found in the home, that sort of thing. Or men are the fighters, women are the peacekeepers. Those would be ideas the Earth natives would carry (perhaps subconsciously). Other interesting differences in opinion would be religious differences or political differences. Differences in whether to have children, what to teach them or how to teach. I'm just kind of looking for ideas. Maybe you'll get ideas from my ideas.

Communication tends to be a big issue in relationships, often the biggest. Not only in how much (or how little) a person communicates, but also what's their style of communication. Are they aggressive? passive-aggressive? persistent? avoidant? talkative? quiet? etc.

How people talk to each other is a big deal in a written story because much of what's written is conversation between characters. Written conversation gives clues into how characters think, and what they carry with them in their minds. Can a character go too far in using nonmonogamous ideas? Something to think about.

I'll keep trying to think of more ideas.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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