Lies and Divorce

It's a different conversation because it didn't really address what she actually said. Which is why I said 'different' and not 'disagree.' ;)

Clearly some here feel that he should have spoken up immediately.

I do wonder, had he repeatedly said no...no...and still no...would some of those people then call him close-minded for refusing to even discuss it, or call him controlling for saying he 'wouldn't allow' her to do what she wants?

I think it's all too easy for our biases to get in the way, such that we will find fault in the person who doesn't agree with our position no matter what they do, no matter which direction they went, or how they handled it.

Well...refusing to discuss something is close-minded by definition. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to be mono. At that point the other person must decide if they can live with mono or not. But that's not all. Often the mono person is so hurt that their partner even entertained the thought of non-monagamy that it causes problems in and of itself.

There was no bias. I felt the OP was getting comments on how she could have done poly better, as if that would have helped the situation. From my perspective, her husband had no interest in poly,failed to convey that properly, and nothing she could have done differently would have made it better, other than never having brought it up.
 
I feel like the what happened between my husband and I is being twisted. He apologized and took responsibility for not saying no when I first brought it up. At the same time he explained his reasons why. While I don't agree with them because I would never had started, I understand why. One Google search will bring up so many results of one partner bringing up poly or opening up after they've already cheated. So while that wasn't our situation he didn't know that.

I don't even know if I identity as poly or not. My IC told me she thinks I used it as an excuse because of my own issues. I find myself agreeing with her, because of a two questions she asked. How would I have reacted if the situation was reversed. And with my issues could I have handled my husband running his scorecard up even more. The answer to both of them is pretty hypocritical, because I would have been angry , jealous etc.

I've also seen some comments that somehow it's all about my husband and that's not true. I dropped a bomb on our marriage and I'm the one who brought issues into the marriage even before this. He's not perfect but I'm the one who needs to fix her shit. As for marriage counseling my IC said to wait until I figure out my problems.

And for him being upset about being propositioned. Had that happened to me the first time I went to a meet up I would have ran for the hills. That's like throwing someone who doesnt know how to swim in the deep end of the pool. Throw in the fact that is was a husband and wife who both wanted him, I understand why my straight husband might have a problem. Before anybody makes a comment no he's not homophobic but being told he could be turned or just try it once is tactless IMO.

You both need to fix your shit.

When I said it's all about him, I meant that he was only looking at how it affected him without trying to understand your perspective. You understand his. It's good that he acknowledges that he should have spoken up. That's a good start. Does he accept that his assumptions were wrong? Often it is hard to do that because it makes it seem like one's feelings (hurt, anger, etc) were not valid. He is dealing with two problems, the one you brought in and the one he created in his head. I've been there. It's not easy.

The threesome thing...I admit I don't understand why someone would run for the hills for anything like that. To me it's simply a yes or no proposition. There are plenty of MFM threesomes where the guys aren't having sex. You left that part out. Yes, it was tactless. People should have been informed that he was a newbie. They should have worked to make him feel comfortable, not hit on him like a bunch of horndogs.
 
I've also seen some comments that somehow it's all about my husband and that's not true. I dropped a bomb on our marriage and I'm the one who brought issues into the marriage even before this. He's not perfect but I'm the one who needs to fix her shit. As for marriage counseling my IC said to wait until I figure out my problems.

--

Whoa. So you made mistakes in your approach and reasoning. Ok.

But he lied, several times, then didn't express himself, then made pretty strong assumptions, then leaped to divorce.

Ok he has stuff to sort out too. Personally, like I've said before, i would be extremely leery trusting someone else like that again. Yes, granted he was pushed to the extreme . But you had no idea until he pulled the plug so to speak.

The divorce papers scare me the most honestly. How do you know another situation won't arise where he will jump too the same conclusions and extreme measures? What if you have kids and you change as a result and he sees a"nightmare" again? Will it be another ring and paper on the counter?

Think about it.
 
Vinsannity- I see where what your saying. I think my perspective is pretty screwed up though, having the person you married say to you that your upset because you didn't sleep around and are jealous because he did. I ask myself how was he supposed to handle that? He reassured me that the past is just that. He told me how great sex is with me. He was open to try things with me. And then I bring up sleeping around. If this conversation had been reversed and my husband had said this I would've been hurt beyond belief and pissed. So what does that say about me?

It's the same thing with the assumption I would do it anyway. Would have I gotten with people at the moment, no he was wrong. But at the same time I felt because of my issues I would cheat and that scared me. So I used poly/ open marriage as a way for me to get around that. So in sense he was right. I don't want people to get the wrong idea about him, he's not closed off and we do talk.

I do appreciate the help from everyone even I come off at little snippy. I probably should be a little more detailed in explaining things. With everything going on I'm not in the best mindset.
 
I'm gonna give you my very honest opinion, and I am sorry I don't have more positive stuff to say to you, I know this whole thing really sucks.

I frankly don't think that either of you are ready for prime time, for the challenge of doing a lifelong marriage with kids. I think you should both get some pretty heavy-duty therapy and work on stuff.

Note: I don't know the ages involved with you and your husband. I will GUESS that you are in your 20's and he is somewhat older...but not that much older...not more than his 30's I expect. Correct me if I am wrong, k?

Issues I see with you, Jenn...

- You feel that you have not had enough experience. This part is only about a sense that there is fun stuff "out there" that others have done, and you have not. This can build resentment as you get into your 30's and beyond, that you never had this fun, carefree young adulthood that a person is reasonably entitled to have. One day you're gonna want to make up for lost time. (Hi! I have been there and done that!) And kids make this a lot worse. You will give up a ton of freedom when they are small and your whole world will revolve around their needs, you don't get to even THINK about yourself for a matter of years. It is hard.

You worry about the urge to adventure getting a hold of you later on, and tempting you to cheat. Maybe that is your heart telling you that you shouldn't be doing this serious marriage thing right now.

If you feel that you need this, I suggest that you put off "getting serious"...and DO IT. You won't be too old to find someone, settle down, and make babies, for some time.

- You feel INADEQUATE because of this lack of experience. OK, well this is you feeling COMPARED to other women. It's a sign of insecure attachment and in my observation of self and others, has a lot to do with having faith in your own ability to be loved, and sometimes goes back to childhood attachment issues with parents. I know I'm going all "armchair psych" on you here, but I've seen it too many times. For what it's worth, men are even MORE expected to be experienced than women, right? Well the best (male) lover that I've ever had, has had very, very little experience before me. He's great because he is attentive, and enthusiastic, and passionate. If you are good, giving, and game...more experience does not make you a better lover. Bringing your A game to the bedroom does. But this issue isn't rooted in reality, it's rooted in "bad code" or insecurity in your head. You're gonna need to work on that. Same same for your jealousy stuff...not only are you jealous at the thought of him actually wanting to go be with another woman for realsies, but more significantly you are jealous of the IDEA of the other women he's been with in the past. Has nothing really to do with them, and everything to do with your own insecurity about yourself.

- You have a tendency I also have, which is to do all this research and have all the best logical arguments, so that your way seems like the right way. You have all the answers. You make it sound so reasonable. How can he argue with that? Well maybe he did not have sound logical arguments that could stand against yours, and maybe he only had hurt emotions and nasty mean words that would sound like abuse, and he did not want to argue using those tools, so he just avoided the conflict altogether, while thinking "How can she think this is ok? What kind of sick people are ok with this?" You gave him every chance to say no...but I have the impression that from his standpoint, if he did, you'd ask why, and then you'd have nice reasonable reasons why his "no" wasn't a sensible position. You were just so darned sure that you were right that your eyes weren't open to how you were being wrong.

Issues I see with him:

- Sex negativity baggage. This could be some kind of attachment issue as well, or deeper "stuff"...but basically there are undercurrents of disgust in his reaction to your desire to have sex with others. He would rather have had you virgin and his alone, than shared you with others. He found the notion of you being sexual with anyone but him...dirty.

I wonder how he feels about the women he has been with in the past?

OK, so some people feel like that. I can not be in a relationship with someone who does. If anyone casts even the faintest shadow of shame or moral judgment, or looks upon my sexuality (no matter who I have shared it with) as dirty or tainted in any way merely because it is not theirs alone...that is a huge trigger for me, if a partner makes me feel like my sex makes me a bad person or even has the potential to, then I don't feel safe being vulnerable and intimate with them anymore, period.

And any man who used the word, "slut" in a (serious) derogatory way about or toward me, would not have a snowball's chance in hell of coming anywhere near my bed ever again. Nope. A person must be more sex positive than that, to be involved in my love life now. I know better.

- His thing of projecting words into your mouth or thoughts into your head. He thought you were already cheating, or you would do this anyways, or maybe that you would say this or that in response to his "no"... This is an unhealthy relationship habit. He does not get to think or speak for you, as though you're not even there.

- His conflict avoidant "I'm fine" and staying away working long hours...he did not make it a priority to communicate how he felt with you, until it boiled over VERY badly. As others have said, I would struggle in trusting him in the future, not to just go along with whatever until he hit a breaking point. You two have incompatible communication styles. You're like "research, research, talk talk talk, logic logic rationale, justification" and he's like "uh huh, silently judge, avoid avoid avoid, tick-tock-tick-tock, BOOM!"

- He will have a hard time trusting you to be faithfully monogamous now, because you've already expressed that you had an interest in others. Like once you had his golden D you were never supposed to want for anything ever again. His ego has been wounded. In addition to trust issues he'll have going forward, is there a part of him that will retain the sense of disgust at the thought that you did this, and will he feel a need to punish you for it?

And worse...will you let him, if he does? Come to be disgusted by your own self?

I think that the two of you both have issues, but that put together there is potential for a nasty toxic mess. I know that is the last thing you want to hear, because you want to save your marriage and maybe you think that rolling over and giving him every possible concession and "win" is going to accomplish that. But if you do, you will regret it, I promise you.

If there is one piece of advice I could give you, it would be: Do NOT have children in this relationship, especially not until some years have passed and not without both of you getting some kind of therapy.
 
Last edited:
As someone with an extremely conflict avoidant partner who has ended up creating massive messes in our relationship at times, I am a bit wary of calling conflict avoidance a choice. I have seen this upfront and know it can be a compulsion when cornered.

It isn't necessarily an honest or graceful trait, but in the case of my partner at least is a serious psychological issue that actually does him the most harm. With time I have learned to be more sensitive to his disagreement and check more carefully if I find too easy agreements where I'd expect at least some resistance. In turn, it has helped him develop some skills in asserting himself.

I say this upfront and Spexy is now on this forum and would assure you I am not lying. When cornered, his first instinct is to lie his way out. If confronted, he is guaranteed to concede unless it is something way outrageous he feels confident in refusing (and that would be along the lines of violence or crime, not merely asserting own preference).

My point is merely this - that when we decide whether we want a person in our life or not, we look at the overall picture rather than specific flaws or virtues. There's a whole postmortem of a crapshoot going on about what went down in our relationship last year in the blog section. I still would unhesitatingly say that I feel loved by Spexy and I know when he's likely to fake it and I'd rather watch out for those occasions and help him learn to deal with them than not have him in my life. Even at the cost of great hurt. And I hold truth in high esteem. Before Spexy, I wouldn't have dreamed of tolerating a liar in my life. Now I want him, even if I'd like him to ditch the lying and am willing to wait and support to see it happen. Because lies apart, I know he'd do anything he can to keep us happy. I have never been so cared for and treasured. Accepted exactly as I am (and I'm fairly unorthodox). He has many qualities that hold me close and treasured while leaving me completely free to be me. I don't want to lose that.

It is just a perspective.
 
As someone with an extremely conflict avoidant partner who has ended up creating massive messes in our relationship at times, I am a bit wary of calling conflict avoidance a choice. I have seen this upfront and know it can be a compulsion when cornered.

It isn't necessarily an honest or graceful trait, but in the case of my partner at least is a serious psychological issue that actually does him the most harm. With time I have learned to be more sensitive to his disagreement and check more carefully if I find too easy agreements where I'd expect at least some resistance. In turn, it has helped him develop some skills in asserting himself.

I say this upfront and Spexy is now on this forum and would assure you I am not lying. When cornered, his first instinct is to lie his way out. If confronted, he is guaranteed to concede unless it is something way outrageous he feels confident in refusing (and that would be along the lines of violence or crime, not merely asserting own preference).

My point is merely this - that when we decide whether we want a person in our life or not, we look at the overall picture rather than specific flaws or virtues. There's a whole postmortem of a crapshoot going on about what went down in our relationship last year in the blog section. I still would unhesitatingly say that I feel loved by Spexy and I know when he's likely to fake it and I'd rather watch out for those occasions and help him learn to deal with them than not have him in my life. Even at the cost of great hurt. And I hold truth in high esteem. Before Spexy, I wouldn't have dreamed of tolerating a liar in my life. Now I want him, even if I'd like him to ditch the lying and am willing to wait and support to see it happen. Because lies apart, I know he'd do anything he can to keep us happy. I have never been so cared for and treasured. Accepted exactly as I am (and I'm fairly unorthodox). He has many qualities that hold me close and treasured while leaving me completely free to be me. I don't want to lose that.

It is just a perspective.

*nods*

And that is why, although I did not shine a favorable light on any of this, I also did not say "RUN! LEAVE! IT'S OVER!" But I do think that there is a lot of stuff going on here, everybody's stuff...and I do say with no hesitation: Don't bring kids into this, while it's still messy.

Fixing the issues will be lots of work. If it's worth it, it's worth it...

At this time and from my perspective in the world, I would decline and look for cleaner compatibility elsewhere. But I certainly cannot presume to speak for the OP.
 
Don't bring kids into this, while it's still messy.

This is very important. I don't think it has been stressed enough on this thread (probably because of thread beginning with divorce papers), but it is worth stressing anyway as something that should be made explicit between the OP and her husband.
 
On stray note, one thing I have found very useful with checking whether Spexy is agreeing because conflict avoidant or actually agreeing is asking for further opinion. If his words sound identical to what I said, I call bullshit. If he has his own views on why something would work, okay, we have an agreement.
 
Unless I end up giving birth to the second coming, pregnancy won't be an issue. He's staying with an old college buddy for the foreseeable future and side stepped me trying to give him a hug when we talked.
 
Unless I end up giving birth to the second coming, pregnancy won't be an issue. He's staying with an old college buddy for the foreseeable future and side stepped me trying to give him a hug when we talked.

I'm saying if you do manage to reconcile...like, I would give it years.

And really...if you don't manage to pull him back in, to where he is willing to try again with the marriage, I know it's heartbreaking right now, but it is not the end of the world. If it comes to it, and it's really really over, you do have a possible support network socially, so that is good. And maybe you can seek a future nesting partner who is more openminded to poly.
 
Back
Top