Reasonable rules?

M

MsEmotional

Member
I had always figured that a previously-monogamous couple having “rules” when defining their style of polyamory was a sign of an unhealthy hierarchy. Having struggled with defining and setting boundaries in my relationship with Ponytail, however, I am beginning to wonder if there are “healthy rules” for an entwined/cohabiting couple to make.

Laptop has a lot of rules with his wife. Here are some of them:

1. Phones off/screens down after 9pm.
2. Wednesdays and Fridays are just for them.
3. Must be home by 10pm.
4. Schedule is planned in advance — usually by Saturday for the upcoming week.

I had been considering exploring a relationship with Laptop, but I feel a little weird about the rules that he has with his wife. Are these reasonable rules in order to set healthy boundaries? Or should they raise red flags for me?
 
If they are completely inflexible (eg you get into a serious car accident at 9:01pm on a Tuesday and can't call him for moral suport in the ER until Thursday), then there needs to be discussion, but otherwise those particular agreements look ok to me. They don't seek to control you in any way, which is usually where the problem is.
 
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Different people have different thoughts on what's reasonable. For example, for me, not bringing other partners to the home Hubby and I share is entirely reasonable, but plenty of people have told me either that he's being controlling or even abusive, or that I'm being unrealistic and "no one will ever date you."

(I have two partners besides Hubby right now. Neither of them has the slightest issue with never being invited to my home.)

I think your question isn't so much whether Laptop and his wife's rules are reasonable, as it is whether they're reasonable *for you* if you're in a relationship with him.

Personally, I wouldn't get involved with anyone who has a curfew, because I got past that stage in high school. But then again, I'm highly unlikely to get involved with anyone who's married, either.
 
Hi MsEmotional,

I think that any set of rules is reasonable for some people, unreasonable for others. What you want to do with Laptop is, study the rules that he has, and ask yourself, "Can I tolerate these rules? How do they feel to me?" If you can be comfortable abiding by those rules, it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. The same is true if those rules make you feel uncomfortable. Trust your own judgment/instincts.

For myself, I don't see a problem with the four rules that you mentioned, but there may be special circumstances where one or more of those rules might cause a problem. Like Emm said, it helps if the rules are a little bit flexible.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Personally, I am entirely over dating people who have rules with another person.
The rules seem to be about preserving "their" relationship over allowing anything to grow. What happens when your birthday is on Wednesday? What happens if you want to chit chat after 9pm?
What happens if your birthday is on a Friday and the party starts at 8?
Each to their own.
 
I'd include that under the need for flexibility. Having a set date night with a partner or spouse makes scheduling much easier. I'd also expect the "no calls/texting/whatever rule to extend in both directions; so my dates shouldn't be interrupted by your calls any more than your family time is by mine.
 
I wouldn't be okay with the curfew. I date adults, not teenagers.

In general,I can respect the no screens after x time if that's what a partner wants. It isn't going to stop me from sending texts about things occasionally, but I am comfortable not getting replied with the exception of an emergency. If I consider someone a partner, I also consider them someone to call when shit goes down. If I can never call you for help/support in a crisis that occurs after 9pm, you're not a friend let alone a partner.

I'm also in general okay with set date days, as long as there is flexibility on occasion. If I'm traveling a lot or something, and my only available day is a Wednesday or Friday, I expect the ability to squeeze in an hour or so to reconnect. Barring something serious like an anniversary with another partner, kid commitment, etc.
 
Hmmm....this has given me some things to think about. I do think they have flexibility in their rules. When I thought Ponytail and I had broken up and I was really upset, I texted him on a Wednesday evening and he texted with me until well after 9pm. Also, even if there weren’t flexibility, I guess I am assuming that I wouldn’t have to spend my birthday (or any other particular days) with him? Like, there are enough other people in this polycule that it wouldn’t be upset if every person couldn’t spend my birthday with me?

It’s probably a moot point anyway. I don’t really think we are going to date, for reasons I will write about in my blog.....
 
I'd likely not be ok with the rules, but partly because I'm a late night person. Also, I love good-night calls. But they seem to be the couples' guidelines to protect their sleep and their date nights together, which could be very reasonable under special circumstances (like one person getting up real early, having demanding work, insomnia, etc.). The reasoning behind these rules/agreements would be of interest.
Does "must be home after 10pm" include "no overnights"? That would be... pretty restrictive.

Anyway, much good advice has been given about not considering if rules are "reasonable" but if they suit you.
I'd add one more angle of view: what kind of say would you have in setting there rules/agreements? Can you propose changes or new agreements? Are they willing to adapt?
(You'd likely not really know until being in a relationship and having tried, but even at the beginning, you can try to find out about the general attitude. )
 
MsEmotional said:
Laptop has a lot of rules with his wife. Here are some of them:

1. Phones off/screens down after 9pm.
2. Wednesdays and Fridays are just for them.
3. Must be home by 10pm.
4. Schedule is planned in advance — usually by Saturday for the upcoming week.

I had been considering exploring a relationship with Laptop, but I feel a little weird about the rules that he has with his wife. Are these reasonable rules in order to set healthy boundaries? Or should they raise red flags for me?
Click to expand...

I feel like these are textbook examples of ways that folks in a relationship aim to prevent triggering jealousy/insecurities. Can't say I've seen it recommended. From where I'm standing it sounds like they don't trust that the other will be present during dedicated time together, and instead of addressing it they've made rules that are supposed to indirectly make it happen.

Maybe it works really well for them, or maybe it's a form of training wheels (those are okay too). But if they're planning on sticking rigidly to those rules forever, and not allow room for flexibility or changes in relationship dynamics with new people or new situations, I'd call it a red flag.

Really depends on the "why" of the rules though. If they exist for other reasons, e.g. phones down after 9pm because they like to get to bed early, and it helps relax the mind before sleeping, then hell yeah and I do that too!
 
I have friends who have similar rules in their households to protect the time they spend as a couple. I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a restriction/limitation of seeing that person. Someone I see can never spend a night away from home. Ever. Pretty much. Maybe once a year. One night.
 
"A lot of rules" sounds like there is a lot of insecurities in this relationship. When you try and force someone else to do or act in a certain way, you are not addressing your emotional or other issues.

Also...

1. Phones off/screens down after 9pm.
2. Wednesdays and Fridays are just for them.
3. Must be home by 10pm.
4. Schedule is planned in advance — usually by Saturday for the upcoming week.
Click to expand...

It doesn't sound like I'm in the minority here but none of these rules are reasonable, so I'm afraid to see what the other rules are like.

First: how do you live with rules in a relationship at all? Personal boundaries are fine because you're dictating what you personally can live with. Placing restrictions on others is a no go and not something I would tolerate. These rules sound like what you would give a child, not an adult who is supposedly your equal partner. Even as a child I wouldn't have tolerated these rules. My mind is still boggled at "turn off phones after 9 pm". What is even the point of this? Edit// I forgot the be home by 10 rule. I'm not sure which one I hate more. I've lived my entire life without a curfew amazingly enough and somehow the loved ones in my life never felt any less loved if I showed up at 7 pm or 6 am.

The "these days of the week are off limits" rule sounds like one that's gonna break sooner or later. I'm pretty sure this was even one of the examples given in "More Than Two" as a bad example of a rule.

tl;dr I don't believe there are reasonable rules, but there are perfectly reasonable personal boundaries. Protect and work on yourself, don't force others to do things to make you feel more comfortable.
 
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"Laptop has a lot of rules with his wife. Here are some of them"

The initial post said that they have these riles together. Not that one person enforces them on another. These are their boundaries. Instead of assuming that this is some sort of punishment dynamic inflicted on an oppressed partner, it could be a mutual decision to ensure heir common goals are met.
 
Boundaries are not rules. You can't use them interchangeably.

Also, there is (was?) a third person involved who had no say in these rules.

You don't need rules if you're already acting this way. If you need rules to live by, then you're (edit: attempting to force) someone to do something. (edit: just because you have rules, doesn't mean they'll be followed)
 
Vengro said:
Boundaries are not rules. You can't use them interchangeably.

Also, there is (was?) a third person involved who had no say in these rules.

You don't need rules if you're already acting this way. If you need rules to live by, then you're (edit: attempting to force) someone to do something. (edit: just because you have rules, doesn't mean they'll be followed)
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There isn't anything wrong with an individual or a couple deciding what they can provide before starting a relationship. I might decide that Sundays are my day for myself, so anyone I meet must know that Sundays are unavailable to them. That's my rule with myself and translates to being a boundary for other people.

Similarly, a couple might decide that evenings after 8pm are their time for themselves. So anyone they meet must know that evenings are unavailable to them. That's their rule with each other and translates to being a boundary for other people.

It can be easy to neglect quality time with ourselves or those who are closest and been around the longest. Sometimes people need to employ hard and fast rules to make sure they keep up with all the things they need over the long term to remain content. Sometimes the rules and boundaries we have to employ mean that our potential dating partners are limited but that doesn't mean that I am being selfish just because someone who wants to date me won't be happy with what I can offer.

I'm not a commodity just here to be a fulfilling partner to any poly person who wants me. I have standards, boundaries and preexisting relationships to maintain. Some of which are sustained by set rules. There is a degree of flexibility but we have made these agreements because it is what we both want. Even if it means we have less dating options.
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
That's my rule with myself and translates to being a boundary for other people.
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This is why you're being told you have rules and boundaries mixed up; you have this turned around exactly 180°. "I will be home by 8 so that I get a good night's sleep" is a boundary you set for yourself, as is "I will not choose to be in a relationship with someone who tries to keep me up past 8". In both cases the only person you're trying to control is yourself. "You're not allowed to be out after 8" is a rule because you're trying to control another person.

A boundary is what you set for yourself. As soon as you try to impose it on another it becomes a rule.
 
Fact is, this example shows clearly how blurry the lines are. Just from reading these ... guidelines for behavior ... we are not sure if they were set up as "rules" (=you can only have outside relationships if you're home by 10), "boundaries" (=I want a good night's sleep, so I will be home every night at 10), or "agreements" (=our relationship works best if we're home after 10, so let's do it). The effect on outside relationships seems very similar to me, that's why I'd rather ask if it works for me and how much room for negotiation there is (which will massively depend on the reasoning behind these... guidelines).
 
Just to be clear, my perception of the “rules” is that they are mutually agreed-upon arrangements in their marriage rather than attempts to restrict one another’s relationships. I know that both of them struggle with insomnia, so I think that the screens off by 9/Home by 10 stuff is related to that.
 
Emm said:
This is why you're being told you have rules and boundaries mixed up; you have this turned around exactly 180°. "I will be home by 8 so that I get a good night's sleep" is a boundary you set for yourself, as is "I will not choose to be in a relationship with someone who tries to keep me up past 8". In both cases the only person you're trying to control is yourself. "You're not allowed to be out after 8" is a rule because you're trying to control another person.

A boundary is what you set for yourself. As soon as you try to impose it on another it becomes a rule.
Click to expand...

I think that might be how you and perhaps others define it. Maybe as a way of distinguishing between red flags and incompatible features. I don't think it is a universal definition.

If I set a rule for myself like not eating after 7 or spending Sundays alone, it's exactly that, a rule that I follow for whatever reason I set it. Both are related to maintaining good health. It then becomes a boundary for other people. So if a friend or partner repeatedly asks me to do things on Sundays or out for dinner after 7 knowing about my rules, and especially not acknowledging it as a rule, I'd start to count that as a violation of my boundaries.

I agree that there is a difference between attempting to set a rule for a partner and the two of you agreeing to a rule as a couple. Either way, I still see them as rules. I don't think getting caught up on the term will avoid controlling people.

For what it is worth, I prefer to call it a rule because it is rigid whereas my boundaries have softer lines. So if something specific was happening on a Sunday, I wouldn't dump a partner who asked me to attend. If they asked me for normal dates every Sunday, it would be different. I do usually stick to my rule bar major events like weddings.
 
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