When Emotional Reactions Become a Problem

[Arius]

This morning my partner of 6 years walks into the kitchen wearing what is obviously a submissive's collar.

When I ask her about it, she tells me that she has decided to engage in a Lifestyle BDSM relationship with her other partner (of 1 year) which involves her permanently wearing a collar to represent his power over her.

They've had a DD/lg dynamic for basically the entire time they've been together, which frankly has been making me completely miserable and at times borderline suicidal off and on for a year now. I know those feelings are my responsibility.

Oh, also she's decided a few months ago that she doesn't want to have sex with me anymore. We've been fighting a lot lately, and I am moving out at the end of the month.

When she tells me this latest news - about her decision to be collared - I immediately feel like I've been stabbed repeatedly in the chest with a dirty sword. My face falls, and I go quiet.

I know that if I express my feelings about this, it's going to be a problem. But I can't hide it from her either; I'm an open book and people can always tell exactly what I'm thinking just by looking at me.

So sure enough, she sees my reaction and then is upset that I'm upset. She wants me to be happy for her and thinks that a year should be enough time for me to move from Gun Shopping to Gleeful about their BDSM dynamic. I've grown a lot in the past year, but I'm not there yet.

She basically told me that it's not fair to her that every time she has good news about her relationship with her DD, she has to manage my emotional reaction. It's to the point where she's afraid to tell me things because of how I react.

I don't know what to do about that, because the reactions are just my feelings. I'm not "doing" my feelings on purpose. It's not clear to me what she actually wants here. It seems like she wants me to not have the feelings, which is of course impossible.

My instinct was just to say "maybe we should never see each other again." That way she can have her happiness untarnished by my emotional response, and I don't have to get stabbed in the chest every few weeks or so with a new revelation about how wonderful their relationship is while ours circles the drain. It's just too hard.

But I don't think I really want that. I want to grow.

I worked on the feelings today and am mostly fine now.

That's the cycle. She tells me something that she thinks is wonderful about her other relationship, I have an emotional meltdown, we talk it out, and I eventually accept it or find some way to deal. Then a few weeks later they kick things up to a new level of insanity and drop another bomb on me, and she gets bent out of shape that I'm not totally fine with everything all the time.

I get that it's hard for her, but is it wrong to have emotional reactions like this? Is there something I can do about it?

Is it okay for her to basically demand compersion or to set a deadline on when I should be fine with what to me is a pretty extreme / intense relationship style?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

They've had a DD/lg dynamic for basically the entire time they've been together, which frankly has been making me completely miserable and at times borderline suicidal off and on for a year now. I know those feelings are my responsibility.

Have you gotten help for the suicidal feelings?

She basically told me that it's not fair to her that every time she has good news about her relationship with her DD, she has to manage my emotional reaction. It's to the point where she's afraid to tell me things because of how I react.

So don't tell you things. There. Tell her good news to someone else. That solves her fear and she doesn't have to look at your face falling or you having feelings any more.

On your end? You are moving out. You don't have to be listening to this stuff any more. Get away from the misery.

My instinct was just to say "maybe we should never see each other again."
That way she can have her happiness untarnished by my emotional response, and I don't have to get stabbed in the chest every few weeks or so with a new revelation about how wonderful their relationship is while ours circles the drain. It's just too hard.

To be honest? I was surprised to read you haven't ended it. I thought this was going to be a story of "I am moving out, I have to get away. How can I endure my last few days/weeks in this home before I can get to the relief of my own space away from this wacky?"

Not a story of "This person makes me miserable and suicidal, so I'm gonna move out and then keep on dating them."

If it's been a year of fighting and feeling suicidal and her just expecting unrealistic things of you -- end it. This is not sounding compatible.

But I don't think I really want that. I want to grow.

I would say it would be growth to leave a relationship that makes you feel suicidal. Staying in it would not be growth. It would be self damaging.

And learning to leave SOONER, before it gets so bad you feel suicidal would be growth to me too.

That's the cycle. She tells me something that she thinks is wonderful about her other relationship, I have an emotional meltdown, we talk it out, and I eventually accept it or find some way to deal. Then a few weeks later they kick things up to a new level of insanity and drop another bomb on me, and she gets bent out of shape that I'm not totally fine with everything all the time.

Is this merry-go-round cycle fun for you?

To me it sounds awful. Why keep being in this?

I get that it's hard for her, but is it wrong to have emotional reactions like this? Is there something I can do about it?

No, it is not wrong to feel how you feel.

Yes, I think it is wrong for your well being to keep adapting. I think it would be better to have a hard limit, say STOP to her behavior and walk away.

If you put your hand on the stove and it feels hot and burns, you change your behavior and STOP putting your hand on there. Not keep doing it and bending yourself into pretzels to endure pain longer.

You keep accommodating her and the shenanigans get bigger/worse. You are miserable.

You might love her a whole lot, but you have to love you first and be able to say "No. I love you, but not even for you am I going to put myself through damage."

It is not being selfish. It is being self-honoring and self-respecting. No person who really loves you would expect you to hurt your own self. This is hurting you. Walk away.

Is it okay for her to basically demand compersion or to set a deadline on when I should be fine with what to me is a pretty extreme / intense relationship style?

She can say whatever she wants.

You do not have to accept the terms. You are free to say "No, thank you. I'm not up for that. I'm moving out. We are breaking up. Stop telling me about your dating life."

Galagirl

 

[Arius]

Hey Gaia.

I always appreciate your thorough hand inciteful comments.

A few things:

1. I actually can't get help for the suicidal feelings. The government here has defunded psychotherapy, and I am disabled and on social assistance. I often don't have money for food, let alone a therapist. As far as I have been able to discern, there is no affordable option for me at this time. So I'm on my own. Honestly, I don't think I'll actually kill myself anyway. I've learned to ride out the feelings and urges and trust that they will pass.

2. There isn't really a way to continue the relationship without her telling me things. I mean, I noticed the collar right away. Certain things - he made me squirt! ie - she could keep to herself. Other things she can't. So the choice is between ending the relationship and learning to deal.

3. The merry-go-round is obviously NOT fun. BUT the relationship isn't always like this and I still think we can fix it. It's been a rough year, but I don't think I'm ready to throw in the towel just yet. I want to at least see what things are like when we live in separate spaces and aren't in each other's faces every day. Honestly, I doubt I will ever find anyone else who will love me. I'm disabled, poor, a relationship anarchist, and I'm not that good looking. I've found one person on OkCupid who lives in my city and is a good match for me, and she isn't interested. I'm impressed that I found one person who thinks I'm worth being in a relationship with. I'm not eager to toss that in the trash.

 

[GalaGirl]

I have some friends who struggle with depression/suicide who cannot afford mental health care. They tell me the hotline numbers and university resources that are free or sliding scale because they get students doing the care. The patients get lower cost/free care and the students get field experience. One tells me Al-Anon is a good place to go even if you are not dealing with an alcoholic person because it teaches you healthy boundaries and healthy relating. Maybe those might be avenues to try where you live. She said it is free, but she had to try various meetings to find a leader/group that she clicked with.

I want to at least see what things are like when we live in separate spaces and aren't in each other's faces every day. Honestly, I doubt I will ever find anyone else who will love me. I'm disabled, poor, a relationship anarchist, and I'm not that good looking

Hopefully living apart will help you learn that being on your own doesn't have to be lonely. And that you don't have to stick with a relationship that hurts from fear you won't have another one.

I remember telling several friends who were leaving hurtful relationships -- that it might be better to be on their own even if it is new/scary/worrisome.

They might not have a new relationship right away, to help fill their companionship bucket. Friends or dating partners or whoever to share things with.

But neither do they have someone actively draining their bucket all the time dinging them/hurting them any more.

Sometimes being at "neutral" bucket -- nothing coming in and nothing going out -- is a healing space. I hope living on your own provides you some healing space.

Galagirl

 

[Arius]

I appreciate the encouragement about being alone. It is an option I am considering. Or at least I'd like to take a break and see how it feels.

I fear growing old on my own, but I'm sure it wouldn't be that bad. I'm extremely introverted and actually like being on my own for the most part.

The crisis lines might be a useful option that I hadn't considered. Honestly, I think what I need though is more in-depth, 1-on-1 ongoing counselling. I don't have a LOT of faith as to what a person on a phone can do for me in one phone call.

I've been to Al-Anon before and it REALLY isn't for me. I forgot this and went to the local al-anon group a while back, but was immediately reminded of why I never go there. I'm an atheist who believes in personal empowerment and autonomy, and they are a religious group that pushes a disempowerment model ("surrender to a higher power" "you're useless, but God can do everything" etc). They claim to be non-religious, but core monotheistic concepts form the very foundation of the 12 Steps. I did learn a thing or two while I was there, but I left feeling gross and alienated. And they tried to make me PRAY. yech.

 

[libertinelover]

Arius, my position is more like that of your partner's but I feel for you. I've been having a BDSM style relationship with my extra-marital partner for nearly a year. My husband is happy to have an open marriage but we find it best if I don't tell him much. I've wanted more openness and sharing - I like to hear how his other women are making him happy and I want to talk to my best friend - my husband about my new exciting relationship - but I don't because it would be hurtful and selfish. I know the poly ideal is all openness and happiness for each other and compersion but that doesn't work for everyone.
I understand your partner's desire to share with you and be true to her desires and her new thing, but I think she's being selfish and inconsiderate of your feelings.
I don't know what the solution is but I would certainly be asking her to have more consideration for you and try to agree on some boundaries.
You deserve someone who cares about and respects you.
Best of luck!

 

[WhatHappened]

I fear growing old on my own, but I'm sure it wouldn't be that bad. I'm extremely introverted and actually like being on my own for the most part.

Is it worse to grow old on your own or grow old with someone who completely disrespects you and tries to order you to feel what she's decided you should feel, regardless of anything she does or says?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm an atheist who believes in personal empowerment and autonomy, and they are a religious group that pushes a disempowerment model

This is why my friend had to shop around various groups. Some are more pray-y than others. She says it really comes down to the leader.

I have some who went the Recovery International route instead.

It may take a while to find the right tools, esp on a budget. Hang in there while searching though!

Galagirl

 

[lunabunny]

I have a few things to say here:

This morning my partner of 6 years walks into the kitchen wearing what is obviously a submissive's collar.

When I ask her about it, she tells me that she has decided to engage in a Lifestyle BDSM relationship with her other partner (of 1 year) which involves her permanently wearing a collar to represent his power over her.


Oh, also she's decided a few months ago that she doesn't want to have sex with me anymore.

Your partner she wants to be submissive to her other partner; a dynamic that involved collaring? Good for her. That is her right and their business.

But in what world is it either appropriate or kind to flaunt this, collar and all, in YOUR face, inside your SHARED home?

Especially given that your "partner" has unilaterally and seemingly arbitrarily decided to cut you off from sharing sexual intimacy with her! To me, her behaviour is unacceptable if not downright cruel.

They've had a DD/lg dynamic for basically the entire time they've been together, which frankly has been making me completely miserable and at times borderline suicidal off and on for a year now. I know those feelings are my responsibility.

We've been fighting a lot lately, and I am moving out at the end of the month.

Yes, the sexual dynamic your partner has decided to engage in with her other partner is HER choice, and figuring out how to manage your feelings about that is YOUR work to do, that is correct.

However, given your partner's increasing unfairness and borderline cruelty towards you, and your suicidal feelings surrounding her behaviour, which are not currently being appropriately managed by a professional, I think moving out is the wisest decision under the circumstances.

Having reviewed your older threads, as well as your subsequent posts on THIS thread, I'm tempted to suggest you break things off with this partner completely.

However, you've made it clear that, due to the love you still feel for her, as well as your disability and difficulty finding other partners, you're loath to do that at this time.

She basically told me that it's not fair to her that every time she has good news about her relationship with her DD, she has to manage my emotional reaction. It's to the point where she's afraid to tell me things because of how I react.

I don't know what to do about that, because the reactions are just my feelings. I'm not "doing" my feelings on purpose. It's not clear to me what she actually wants here. It seems like she wants me to not have the feelings, which is of course impossible.

The personal responsibility that comes with managing one's own feelings within a polyamorous relationship is ONE thing... expecting a partner to be overjoyed about something like that (permanently wearing a collar denoting "belonging" to some other lover when living with a partner you're denying ALL forms of sexual intimacy to), is totally unrealistic if not abusive.

There is no reason they can't keep that aspect of their relationship between THEM, rather than flaunting it in your face - particularly since she must know you have difficulty regulating your emotions.

One last thing:

In another OP, you stated you're a relationship anarchist who tends to value sex and sexual intimacy OVER other forms of intimacy such as friendship, and your current partner called you out on this.

How you view love, sex and relationships is your choice, of course, and this may be the way you're naturally wired... HOWEVER, I'd urge you to consider working on this attitude since (in your own words) you're finding it difficult -
- as a "poor", "disabled" man who isn't blessed with money or great looks - to connect with other females who're willing to enter into a relationship with you. It's possible your emphasis on sex over other forms of connection may be hampering your efforts.

 

[Dagferi]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.---unknown author

 

[Arius]

Thanks for your thorough and helpful reply, lunabunny.

It's possible your emphasis on sex over other forms of connection may be hampering your efforts.

Would you be able to explain more about how this could be the case?

Just to be clear about my other post - I have lots of friendships, which I value. I am sensitive and a great listener and I enjoy connecting with partners and friends and lovers in a variety of ways. I am conscious of the ways in which woman are socialized to meet male needs and make every effort to eliminate sexual pressure and to be consentful in my communication.

My other post was a reaction to a conversation that happened between my partner and I in which I suggested that I might not want to be with her any more after she told me she doesn't find me attractive presently for reasons that mostly have to do with my disability. The impulse to leave was triggered by the absence of sex because at the time she had already kicked pretty much all the other legs out from under us. She wasn't offering me (and was in fact actively denying me) emotional support, she didn't do any of what should be shared physical labour around the house, she didn't seem to enjoy spending time with me and would make other plans during our dates. There just wasn't anything worth clinging to at that point except the possibility of sex. So when we took that off the table, I thought about leaving and then she said I was maybe being oppressive.... which upon reflection and discussion here, I don't think I was. That Last Leg could have been emotional support or quality time or whatever... it just happened to be sex. I would likely stick around if we had a great emotional connection but the sex wasn't there.

I did realize through that conversation that I do tend to place slightly more emphasis on relationships that involve or might lead to sex, which for some reason is sort of a no-no in relationship anarchist circles. It's my life, and I think I have the right to do that since I enjoy sex and would like to have as much of it as possible. I don't think I'm obsessed with it to an unhealthy degree. I still value friendships, and base all my relationships in friendship and getting to know the other person, building intimacy, discovering shared interests, etc. All those things are important to me.

And for the record, she's been putting a lot more time and energy into being a good partner lately. I think if we lived in separate places and only saw each other maybe once a week, and she put in a little effort, things could be really great between us.

My current plan is to move out, take a few weeks to myself, and then try seeing each other about once a week or so and having really intentional dates. Perhaps a little more or less frequently depending on how that goes. During the time I am on my own, I want to reflect on what I want and need from her in order to make this relationship worthwhile for me. I intend to make a list of requests. This will be a two-way conversation, but if I don't see some change on her end, I'm going to end things.

I actually think it maybe isn't okay for her to wear his collar on our dates. I'm not sure if that's unreasonable, but I think I may request it. On the other hand, he has that power over her 24/7 whether it's thrown in my face or not. So I guess I need to accept that or end things.

 

[Tinwen]

I actually think it maybe isn't okay for her to wear his collar on our dates. I'm not sure if that's unreasonable, but I think I may request it. On the other hand, he has that power over her 24/7 whether it's thrown in my face or not. So I guess I need to accept that or end things.

Entering a 24/7 power dynamics without considering (and talking to) her other partner(s) is extremely inconsiderate.

Expecting her to negotiate taking off a 24/7 collar for dates is unrealistic.

My 2 cents.

 

[FallenAngelina]

I'm an atheist who believes in personal empowerment and autonomy, and they are a religious group that pushes a disempowerment model ("surrender to a higher power" "you're useless, but God can do everything" etc). They claim to be non-religious, but core monotheistic concepts form the very foundation of the 12 Steps. I did learn a thing or two while I was there, but I left feeling gross and alienated. And they tried to make me PRAY. yech.

Obviously you're never going back because this was your experience, but this is not Al-Anon. I encourage anyone else considering this program to know that anyone and everyone is welcome, no matter her views on the gods. Yes, Al-Anon and all 12 Step programs are spiritually based, but these are NOT religious groups. We have several atheists in our meeting and they are embraced, as any person would be. I, myself, am Jewish in a predominantly Catholic-upbringing area and I have found nothing but open arms. Also, it's important to know the purpose and meaning of "surrender to a higher power," which it seems that you have missed entirely. The underlying assumption is NOT that "you're useless," but actually just the opposite. I mention all of this not for you, but for everyone else reading along who is considering Al-Anon. This international program is specifically NOT religiously connected to any particular faith, but it IS spiritually based on whatever the individual perceives a higher power to be. Atheists are most certainly welcome and do find meaningful fellowship in this community.

As with all of life, opportunities for growth and increased well being are just about as plentiful as an individual is ready to receive. I defy anyone to get into a pissing match with me about childhood strikes against them and challenges along the way. I've weathered some pretty hard knocks and every day that passes, I am more and more confident that we make our own happiness in this life. There are many avenues to well being when a person is willing to open up to them.

 

[Tinwen]

This international program is specifically NOT religiously connected to any particular faith, but it IS spiritually based on whatever the individual perceives a higher power to be. Atheists are most certainly welcome and do find meaningful fellowship in this community.

Trouble is ... hardcore atheists (not just agnostics) will specifically believe there is no higher power, so then you get perceived conflict

 

[Arius]

Gaia, thanks for the Recovery International link! Ironically the website is so poorly designed it makes me want to drink - and I'm not even an alcoholic. But I will check them out and see if I can find something helpful there.

Tinwen, I appreciate your thoughts, thanks.

I agree that failing to consult about a change like that is inconsiderate and selfish. Basically, it's an attitude that says "I don't give a shit about this relationship enough to factor you in when I'm making a decision that could change how you think about (or could even completely destroy) the relationship." She's done this before with other things - fluid bonding with a new partner, for example. She just fluid-bonded with him and then told me afterwards; I may very well have chosen to end my sexual relationship with her over that and she didn't seem to care.

I also appreciated your perspective about asking her to set aside her 24/7 thing. I'm trying to figure out what IS reasonable.

I think what i don't want is for her to be doing stuff for HIM during OUR time together. Like one time she engaged in certain sexual activities with me that I was excited about, but it was as part of a photo shoot FOR HIM, and I felt really uncomfortable and unhappy about this. I wanted to connect with her and have it be about us, and it seemed like she was only willing to do this particular sexy thing when it was for him.

I think it is reasonable to ask that our time together be about us and not him. (Assuming that I still want to spend time with her now that she's doing this permanent 24/7 lifestyle bdsm thing with someone else.)

Angelina - do you think you could tell me more about what I'm not getting in the "higher power" concept? What do you think it's about?

I've been to a few different Al-Anon groups, and every group I've been to has been varying degrees of religious in a way that made me uncomfortable / annoyed / created barriers between myself and the people there.

I'm really not down with any program where the first step is admitting that you're powerless. I'm not powerless.

I should clarify that I am technically agnostic, even though I can state with 99.99999% confidence that there's no god(s), and 99.99999999999999999999999999999% confidence that the god of the bible was invented by middle eastern humans. I sometimes say Atheist/agnostic or just atheist for short, but to me hardcore atheism is also a faith claim that I'm not willing to make. I don't believe in anything, including atheism.

 

[Tinwen]

I think it is reasonable to ask that our time together be about us and not him. (Assuming that I still want to spend time with her now that she's doing this permanent 24/7 lifestyle bdsm thing with someone else.)

Yes I think that's a good request to make / boundary to set up.
But if they (because it's him setting the tasks) try to make you participate in tasks that are done for their erotic pleasure, it's certainly time to walk.

 

[lunabunny]

Thanks for your thorough and helpful reply, lunabunny.

Would you be able to explain more about how this could be the case?

My other post was a reaction to a conversation that happened between my partner and I in which I suggested that I might not want to be with her any more after she told me she doesn't find me attractive presently for reasons that mostly have to do with my disability. The impulse to leave was triggered by the absence of sex because at the time she had already kicked pretty much all the other legs out from under us. She wasn't offering me (and was in fact actively denying me) emotional support, she didn't do any of what should be shared physical labour around the house, she didn't seem to enjoy spending time with me and would make other plans during our dates. There just wasn't anything worth clinging to at that point except the possibility of sex. So when we took that off the table, I thought about leaving and then she said I was maybe being oppressive.... which upon reflection and discussion here, I don't think I was. That Last Leg could have been emotional support or quality time or whatever... it just happened to be sex. I would likely stick around if we had a great emotional connection but the sex wasn't there.

You're welcome, Arius. And thank you for providing the above as context. You never did return to your other post to address the questions and advice people had for you, so it was difficult to figure where exactly you and/or your partner were coming from. Now I have a more thorough understanding of what led up to that confrontation and your reasons for moving out.

Given the above, I do not blame you for feeling dissatisfied with your arrangement as it stands, as well as hurt and angry at your partner's attitude and behaviour. In all likelihood, I would not be willing to remain long in such a relationship.

I did realize through that conversation that I do tend to place slightly more emphasis on relationships that involve or might lead to sex, which for some reason is sort of a no-no in relationship anarchist circles. It's my life, and I think I have the right to do that since I enjoy sex and would like to have as much of it as possible. I don't think I'm obsessed with it to an unhealthy degree. I still value friendships, and base all my relationships in friendship and getting to know the other person, building intimacy, discovering shared interests, etc. All those things are important to me.

That said... your current relationship isn't what I was referencing when I suggested you might want to re-think your own priorities regarding the weight/emphasis you place on sex... vs friendship, non sexual intimacy and other aspects of relating WITHIN the scope of intimate relationships, such as emotional support, companionship etc.

To clarify further, I was speaking to your complaint that, historically, you have found it difficult to find another female (i.e. close, intimate relationship) who wants to share sex with you. Of course it's your prerogative to order your life and priorities however you see fit. I was simply suggesting you might want to think about how your wants and needs come across to potential - rather than existing - romantic/sexual partners.

Therefore it's heartening that you say you DO in fact place importance on, and enjoy other aspects of intimacy (almost) as much, because, at risk of generalising, I think most (though not all) women do not want to feel like the sexual aspect is the "be all and end all" of the connection, in their partner's eyes.

I actually think it maybe isn't okay for her to wear his collar on our dates. I'm not sure if that's unreasonable, but I think I may request it. On the other hand, he has that power over her 24/7 whether it's thrown in my face or not. So I guess I need to accept that or end things.

Once again, how you react to this is totally up to you, but personally, I wouldn't consider it acceptable behaviour to wear such a collar when spending intimate one-on-one time with another partner, particularly a nesting partner or one who is being denied sexual intimacy.

This may be somewhat different once you move out. But seriously, does she intend to wear this collar 24/7, around her family, in the workplace etc.? If she can remove it for other reasons/situation where it's not appropriate, she can surely leave it off during dates with you.

 

[Arius]

But seriously, does she intend to wear this collar 24/7, around her family, in the workplace etc.? If she can remove it for other reasons/situation where it's not appropriate, she can surely leave it off during dates with you.

So just to clarify - yes, she does intend to wear this collar around her (and my) family, at work, at the yoga studio, etc. It never comes off. Her DD would have the only key to unlock it. (Though she has spoken of making a second key in case of a medical emergency.)

 

[Arius]

Also, I didn't mean to ditch out on that other conversation. I rely on my email to tell me when there are new responses, and i didn't receive any notifications for some reason. Plus I tend to avoid the internet and chatrooms for extended periods of time because they suck up a lot of my very limited energy.

I should probably see if i can find it.

 

[GalaGirl]

I imagine that there are other tools besides those, but yeah... see if Recovery International is handy in your area or not. You might have to "shop around" to see what tools work best for you.

My current plan is to move out, take a few weeks to myself, and then try seeing each other about once a week or so and having really intentional dates. Perhaps a little more or less frequently depending on how that goes. During the time I am on my own, I want to reflect on what I want and need from her in order to make this relationship worthwhile for me. I intend to make a list of requests. This will be a two-way conversation, but if I don't see some change on her end, I'm going to end things.

Sounds like a plan. Stick with it.

Galagirl